I don't recall the exact year but sometime in the early 1930's the Atlantic Coast Line bought five fairly modern steam locomotives from another railroad for the express purpose of heading one of its passenger trains.
From what railroad were these engines purchased, what was their wheel arrangement, to what ACL train were they assigned and between what cities did they handle this train?
Mark
I don't know of any second-hand power acquired in the 1930's by the ACL, but they got five 4-8-2's (1401-1405) from the DL&W in 1943 to handle the Southland (Tr.s 32-33) over the Perry cutoff
They operated between Albany, GA, and Tampa, FL, unless I'm mistaken.
Are these engines the ones you have in mind?
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
Bob, as usual you've hit the nail on the head but are you quite sure the ACL acquired these engines in 1943? I was thinking the 1930's when the cash strapped Lackawanna no longer needed them due to a decline in their traffic as a result of the Depression but I can't readily lay my hands on a source for this info. I could easily be wrong as I've reached an age where by the time I get to the kitchen from the bedroom I've often forgotten why I was going there in the first place.
I've often wondered if some firebox modifications were'nt necessary since the engines burned anthracite while in service on the DL&W and bituminous on the ACL.
You and I are going back and forth at the speed of the ball in a tennis match and the next question is again yours to ask.
A curiosity PS to my last posting:
Do you know if these engines also handled the section of the Southland that ran between St. Pete and Trilby? I think not as this was a much shorter train than was the Tampa section so a Pacific was most likely its motive power.
My source for the 1943 date is Richard Prince's ACL book, which usually quite accurate. I double checked when you questioned the date. I have heard elsewhere that the ACL wanted to lease the engines but the DL&W said no dice - there are too many other customers who want to buy them.
As the Trilby-St. Pete section - I don't know. That'd likely be a question for Bro. Larry Goolsby, who literally wrote the book on ACL passenger service.
Ask another question, Mark, and I'll stay out of it this time (assuming I know the answer - just lucky the last two times) and let someone get in the game.
Bob
http://www.timetableimages.com/i-t/tat2907i.jpg
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tat29/tat29-2.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0ZwGCeuAbO0/SJ7m-exqCbI/AAAAAAAAN2Y/XYNcRokpfVE/Ford+Colombus+de+la+Transcontinental+(T.A.T.Air+transport+vers+1930.jpg
http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal102/americabyair/abaImage.cfm?webID=202.p5b
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=12731
http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/GCATG/pages/photo_album/1920s_3.htm
http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/GCATG/pages/photo_album/1930s.htm
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1975/1/1975_1_22.shtml
AWP290 My source for the 1943 date is Richard Prince's ACL book, which usually quite accurate. I double checked when you questioned the date.
My source for the 1943 date is Richard Prince's ACL book, which usually quite accurate. I double checked when you questioned the date.
I wouldn't question an authority like Prince so I'm sure 1943 is the correct date. One reason I thought it was earlier was a trip I made with an aunt of mine from Tampa to Gary, IN on the Southland. I know one of the ex-DL&W engines was on the point because before boarding at Tampa I walked to the front of the train and chatted briefly with the engineer who told me a good bit about his engine. I thought that trip was in the winter of 1942 but time has dulled my recollection of details like that and it must have been a year later. The trip was especially memorable in part because it was the first time I rode in a Pullman and breakfast the next morning while speeding up the CofG was the first time I ate in a dining car. This was pretty heady stuff for an 11 year old boy.
AWP290 Ask another question, Mark, and I'll stay out of it this time (assuming I know the answer - just lucky the last two times) and let someone get in the game.
Thanks Bob but I dont have a decent question at my finger tips and I'd really prefer you to ask the next one. If I know the answer, rather posting a reply on the open Forum, I'll PM my answer to you which will give someone else a chance at it.
By the way I looked up Lawrenceville in a '55 OG and see it is/was on the SAL mainline to Atlanta and Birmingham. The Cotton Blossom stopped there but the Silver Comet sped right on by. Is the line still active today or is it one of the many that were abandoned by the CSX?
Lawrenceville is on the ex-SAL (ne GC&N) line from Monroe, NC, to Atlanta and is still very much in service. Loganville, my home town, was on an SAL branch from Lawrenceville. It was abandoned in January 1932 and the rails came up in 1933.
Now for my question:
In the 1930's and 1940's, the Florida East Coast Railway "shuffled and dealt" their excess motive power to a number of roads, peddling its Mountains, Pacifics, and 0-8-0's throughout the nation, but chiefly in the South.
There were ten roads that purchased used power from the FEC. Name them. (Note: 3rd hand owners - and there were a couple - do not count.)
Mike, the information concerning the rail-air-rail-air service from New York to Los Angeles is interesting. I am sure that almost everyone noticed that this service took less time than the fastest service ever provided by through cars NY-LA.
By June of 1930, there was no setout sleeper at Waynoka listed by the Santa Fe, so the passengers apparently had to wait until the Missisionary came in before they could get to bed.
Johnny
According to the Classic Trains article on the service, there was, indeed, a set-out sleeper for the use of the Airway passengers and it traveled on the Missionary. Why it isn't shown I don't know, unless it was for the exclusive use of the Airway clientele and therefore the space was not available for sale and therefore would not be shown in the Official Guide or the timetable.
Bob Hanson
AWP290In the 1930's and 1940's, the Florida East Coast Railway "shuffled and dealt" their excess motive power to a number of roads, peddling its Mountains, Pacifics, and 0-8-0's throughout the nation, but chiefly in the South. There were ten roads that purchased used power from the FEC. Name them. (Note: 3rd hand owners - and there were a couple - do not count.) Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
Apalachicola Northern
Atlanta and St. Andrews Bay
Atlanta, Birmingham and Coast
Columbia, Newberry and Laurens
Georgia and Florida
Illinois Terminal
Louisiana and Arkansas
National Railways of Mexico
Savannah and Atlanta
St. Louis Southwestern
Western Pacific
Western Railway of Alabama
The answer is unsigned, but whoever your are, FEC MP 335, a few miles south of Pompano Beach (FEC alumnus, here - 15 years) you're dead-on. Either you have an excellent memory or a copy of Seth Bramson's Speedway to Sunshine. (I'm told I have the former, definitely have the latter..)
Over to you for the next question.
Johnny, thanks for commenting. Fred Harvey had beds at Waynoka for anyone too tired to wait up if there ever was no sleeper. Incidentally, the new book about Fred Harvey, "Appetite For America" by Stephen Fried, has some pages about TAT. Here's a link to the Google preview.
http://books.google.com/books?id=JRzC5Z6wyLYC&pg=PA314&dq='tin+goose%22+%22waynoka,+oklahoma%22+%22fred+harvey%22&hl=en&ei=PiTLS4bcEoa0lQe-492MBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q='tin%20goose%22%20%22waynoka%2C%20oklahoma%22%20%22fred%20harvey%22&f=true
http://harvey.library.arizona.edu/finding_aid/9ok/23/welcome.html
http://www.waynoka.org/images/depot-l3.jpg
http://www.fly-low.com/feat0411/tat.html
Mike
AWP290 According to the Classic Trains article on the service, there was, indeed, a set-out sleeper for the use of the Airway passengers and it traveled on the Missionary. Why it isn't shown I don't know, unless it was for the exclusive use of the Airway clientele and therefore the space was not available for sale and therefore would not be shown in the Official Guide or the timetable. Bob Hanson
The same issue of the Guide shows the westbound Airway Limited (1st No. 65) as having a 12-1 sleeper from New York and from Washington to Indianapolis, as well as a club car and a 4C-observation from New York to Indianapolis. 2nd No. 65 (The American) does not show any cars to be set out in Indianoplis, but No. 66 (The American) shows a 12-1 for New York and a 12-1 for Washington to be picked up in Indianapolis. There is no eastbound Airway Limited shown, nor is there any other mention of the rail/air service in the PRR representation.
Deggesty [The same issue of the Guide shows the westbound Airway Limited (1st No. 65) as having a 12-1 sleeper from New York and from Washington to Indianapolis, as well as a club car and a 4C-observation from New York to Indianapolis. 2nd No. 65 (The American) does not show any cars to be set out in Indianoplis, but No. 66 (The American) shows a 12-1 for New York and a 12-1 for Washington to be picked up in Indianapolis. There is no eastbound Airway Limited shown, nor is there any other mention of the rail/air service in the PRR representation.
[The same issue of the Guide shows the westbound Airway Limited (1st No. 65) as having a 12-1 sleeper from New York and from Washington to Indianapolis, as well as a club car and a 4C-observation from New York to Indianapolis. 2nd No. 65 (The American) does not show any cars to be set out in Indianoplis, but No. 66 (The American) shows a 12-1 for New York and a 12-1 for Washington to be picked up in Indianapolis. There is no eastbound Airway Limited shown, nor is there any other mention of the rail/air service in the PRR representation.
Johnny,
Columbus (Port Columbus) not Indianapolis was the western end of the PRR leg of the transcontinental air-rail service. The sleeper for this service ran between there and NY in No's 65 and 66. Check your OG again and see if this set-out car isn't shown in the consists of these trains. If not it is probably for the reason Bob mentioned above.
KCSfanColumbus (Port Columbus) not Indianapolis was the western end of the PRR leg of the transcontinental air-rail service. The sleeper for this service ran between there and NY in No's 65 and 66. Check your OG again and see if this set-out car isn't shown in the consists of these trains. If not it is probably for the reason Bob mentioned above.
AWP290The answer is unsigned, but whoever your are, FEC MP 335, a few miles south of Pompano Beach (FEC alumnus, here - 15 years) you're dead-on. Either you have an excellent memory or a copy of Seth Bramson's Speedway to Sunshine. (I'm told I have the former, definitely have the latter..) Over to you for the next question. Bob Hanson
I sometimes wonder about the former, but definitely have the latter.
As for the question -
This city had a Chief, Rocket and Zephyr named after it. Name the city.
ZephyrOverland As for the question - This city had a Chief, Rocket and Zephyr named after it. Name the city.
DeggestyZephyrOverland As for the question - This city had a Chief, Rocket and Zephyr named after it. Name the city.The only such city I can think of is Kansas City.
You got it. The next question is yours....
ZephyrOverlandYou got it. The next question is yours....
What trains were named for Amerindian tribes and people? What road operated each one?
Deggesty ZephyrOverlandYou got it. The next question is yours.... What trains were named for Amerindian tribes and people? What road operated each one?
Okay, what first comes to mind are the Pocohontas and the Powhatan Arrow, old main line of the Norfolk & Western, Norfolk - Roanoke - Charleston WV and Cincy w/connections. The Pokey was the overnight train and the Arrow was the day train.
Pretty sure IC had the Illini from Chicago to Champaign-Urbana and perhaps Amtrak still does.
Vague as to tribe (Hopi or Navajo perhaps), but Santa Fe had the Chief, Super Chief, Texas Chief, California Chief and others I may not know about.
Wasn't there once a train called The Seminole and did it run from Chicago to Florida??
I'm sure there are many more . . . - al
These are the names of the trains I know of that ran post WW2. I'm sure ther were others in earlier times.
Winnipesaukee - B&M
Penebscot - B&M/MEC
Kennebec - B&M/MEC
Iroquois - NYC
Mohawk - NYC
Seminole - IC/CofG/ACL
Illini - IC
Chickasaw - IC
Aztec Eagle - MP/NdeM
Shawnee - C&EI
Dakota 400 - CNW
Choctaw Rocket - CRI&P
Cherokee - CRI&P
Apache - AT&SF
Navajo - AT&SF
Arapaho - AT&SF ???
Chippewa - CMStP&P
Sioux - CMStP&P
Dakotan - GN
Powhatan Arrow - N&W
Narragansett - NYNH&H
Aroostook Flyer - BAR
al-in-chgo Okay, what first comes to mind are the Pocohontas and the Powhatan Arrow, old main line of the Norfolk & Western, Norfolk - Roanoke - Charleston WV and Cincy w/connections. The Pokey was the overnight train and the Arrow was the day train. Pretty sure IC had the Illini from Chicago to Champaign-Urbana and perhaps Amtrak still does. Vague as to tribe (Hopi or Navajo perhaps), but Santa Fe had the Chief, Super Chief, Texas Chief, California Chief and others I may not know about. Wasn't there once a train called The Seminole and did it run from Chicago to Florida?? I'm sure there are many more . . . - al
KCSfan These are the names of the trains I know of that ran post WW2. I'm sure ther were others in earlier times. Mark
Deggesty ]That's quite a list, Mark. I just looked through the June, 1930 Guide, and found only ten names, some of which are on your list. There's one name you listed, Apache, which was not a SFe train. Some of those trains were still running after WWII.
]That's quite a list, Mark. I just looked through the June, 1930 Guide, and found only ten names, some of which are on your list. There's one name you listed, Apache, which was not a SFe train. Some of those trains were still running after WWII.
I sure did slip up on the Apache which was a Rock Island/SP and not a Santa Fe train. The name Arapaho sticks in my mind but I can't find it listed anywhere I've look thus far hence the ??? I put after listing it. Is it just a figment of my imagination or did a train of that name exist? If so perhaps you or someone else can name the RR(s) over which it ran and its route.
Deggesty What trains were named for Amerindian tribes and people? What road operated each one?
Here's what I come up with, avoiding duplicates. I also included some Indian derived Canadian trains.
Algonquin CN Toronto-Algonquin ParkCayuga NY New York-Buffalo
Cheyenne Local UP Denver-Cheyenne
Cheyenne Mail UP Denver-Cheyenne
Eskimo CP Calgary-Edmonton
Hopi ATSF Los Angeles-Chicago
Montauk Express LI New York-Montauk
Montauk Special LI New York-Montauk
Omaha CNW Chicago-Omaha
Onondaga NYC Cleveland-Buffalo
Onondaga RDG CNJ DLW Philadelphia-Binghampton
Ottawa Express CN Montreal-Ottawa
Pueblo and Cripple Creek Distrct Express DRG Denver-Pueblo
Spokane UP Portland-Spokane
Seneca NYC New York-Syracuse
Shasta SP Portland-San Francisco
Shawnee Cleveland & Lake Erie Cincinnati-Toledo
Shawnee IC Chicago-Carbondale
Shinnecock Express LI Montauk-New York
Shoshone Flyer Spokane and Inland Empire
Shoshone CBQ Denver-Billings
Tuscarora NYC New York-Buffalo
Ute Colorado Midland/ATSF Denver-Grand Junction
ZephyrOverlandShawnee Amtrak Chicago-Carbondale
DeggestyZephyrOverlandShawnee Amtrak Chicago-CarbondaleI was really thinking of classic trains; does Amtrak really fit in? Otherwise, well done.
I was really thinking of classic trains; does Amtrak really fit in? Otherwise, well done.
I took out the "offending" Amtrak names from my list.....
al-in-chgo [Pretty sure IC had the Illini from Chicago to Champaign-Urbana and perhaps Amtrak still does.
[Pretty sure IC had the Illini from Chicago to Champaign-Urbana and perhaps Amtrak still does.
Al,
Good call. The IC sure did have an Illini. It was a classy little daylight train which ran between Chicago and Carbondale. It ran right past my boyhood home and I saw it many times headed by an 1100 series Pacific usually with 2 head end cars, 3 day coaches and a cafe-lounge car. All were Pullman green heavyweights. Today the Illini is an Amtrak regional financed in part by the state of Illinos which along with its companion train, the Saluki, runs to Carbondale just like its IC predecessor.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter