KCSfan One railroad had three trains all with the same name, "The Twin xxxxx", with xxxxx being the name of still another of the road's famous trains. All three trains ran from, to, or through one common city/town. What was the full name of these trains, their routes, the common city/town they all served and the railroad? Mark
One railroad had three trains all with the same name, "The Twin xxxxx", with xxxxx being the name of still another of the road's famous trains. All three trains ran from, to, or through one common city/town. What was the full name of these trains, their routes, the common city/town they all served and the railroad?
Mark
Would this be the Frisco Twin Meteor? I'm only aware of two routings - St. Louis-Parsons and St. Louis-Paris. Would the town you're looking for be Joplin?
One of the sleeping cars that ran in two of the three "Twin" trains ran to/from a city that was devastated by a tornado in recent years. This hint should at least help identify the railroad that ran these trains.
In addition to the other hints I've posted this may be of some help in answering my question. In pre-WW2 OG's these trains are un-named and I only noticed the "Twin" name in post-war issues. By 1954 the name had been dropped.
All three trains ran in the area west of the Mississippi River and east of the Rockies. St. Louis was a terminus for one of the three.
None of these are the correct trains. "Cities" was not a part of trains' name which was merely "The Twin xxxxx".
morning and afternoon twin cities zephyrs carried sleepers for the connecting western GN and NP trains but were coach only between Minneapolis and St. Paul. Was the third the "Twin Cities Rocket Zephyr?
All three of the "Twin" trains carried a sleeper(s) over only a portion of their routes and were coach only over the rest of their routes. On board meal service was available on all three trains at meal times during their runs.
Mark I'll leave this to you. I've posted to the other thread
Thx IGN
IGN has the full explanation. The original schedule hit San Antonio in the early morning hours, where a 10-6 was dropped and another picked up. Later the schedule shifted some and the car ran through eastbound with a westbound car sitting in San Antonio for the day. The entire practice ended about 1957.
Since Mark got half of the question, and no one has asked a new question on the other "at least 50 years ago" forum, why don't you guys put up the next questions on each forum?
Found it : http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/sunset195008.html
The east bound dropped a 10/6 that you could sleep in til 8am. And picked up a 10/6 that you could occupy at 930pm.
I take it the Sunset dropped a 10/6 and it sat there for the day. Then was picked up by the next train eastbound.
Rgds IGN
I don't think this is right as (I thought) SP had better connections elsewhere.
Connection to Mexico City? Thru San Antonio - Laredo ?
It is possible that these cars operated as parlor cars over a portion(s) of their route with passengers paying just a first class fare without the berth charge.
rcdrye KCSfan I can think of two possibilities. 1. They were the San Antonio - New Orleans cars. 2. They were the Dallas - Los Angeles cars that were carried WB in T&P No.1 from Dallas to El Paso and EB in T&P No. 8 from El Paso to Dallas and in the Sunset west of El Paso. Mark 1. is partially correct, eastbound only (in 1950 at least). But note the original question accounts for the Dallas cars, and states that the train didn't otherwise change length en route. Also note that the train length was the same arriving and departing San Antonio. The first part of nariq01's answer should help.
KCSfan I can think of two possibilities. 1. They were the San Antonio - New Orleans cars. 2. They were the Dallas - Los Angeles cars that were carried WB in T&P No.1 from Dallas to El Paso and EB in T&P No. 8 from El Paso to Dallas and in the Sunset west of El Paso. Mark
I can think of two possibilities.
1. They were the San Antonio - New Orleans cars.
2. They were the Dallas - Los Angeles cars that were carried WB in T&P No.1 from Dallas to El Paso and EB in T&P No. 8 from El Paso to Dallas and in the Sunset west of El Paso.
1. is partially correct, eastbound only (in 1950 at least). But note the original question accounts for the Dallas cars, and states that the train didn't otherwise change length en route. Also note that the train length was the same arriving and departing San Antonio. The first part of nariq01's answer should help.
This suggests that the WB Sunset carried a drop sleeper from NO to San Antonio and picked up another sleeper in San Antonio that was carried to LA and conversely going EB.
Ok another guess. Were these cars dropped and/or picked up in Phoenix? Was the Phoenix stop in the middle of the nite, and the cars were for early boardings?
Just a thought.
All of the recent answers reflect earlier or later service patterns (the SD&AE car was on the Argonout). This car was part of the regular Sunset consist, but played a special role. Big Hint: Think important market between the endpoints that wasn't served well by other carriers.
Possibly these cars ran to/from San Diego over the SD&AE and east of Yuma were part of the Sunset's regular consist.
A couple of WAG;s either continuing service to Jacksonville, FL? Or North to San Francisco?
I would doubt the latter as I remember someone saying there was no thru service at LAUPT.
Dallas or Fort Worth - El Paso service or Houston - El Paso service.
Not a dorm. Revenue space.
dorm?
After all of that urban excitement we need the wide open spaces. So we head off to the arid southwest in the early 1950s...
When SP re-inaugurated the Sunset limited in 1950 it bought a couple of extra 10-6 sleepers in the 9000 series. Some of these were pooled with similar T&P cars for Dallas-LA service. One "extra" car was always active in the pool, but the train length was the same from day to day. What was this car used for?
With three NYCity questions, it is time for another to be up at bat, and since rcd got six out of the eight, the 6 TARS-TATS lines Bronx to Westchester, he is the winner.
The two PCC lines from downtown Brooklyn to Coney Island were Smith St. - Coney Island Avenue, and Vanderbilt - McDonald Avenue. Both were combinations, end-to-end, of two lines that in the very distant past were operated by two different companies, and thier franchises did not require transfer between them. One or the other crossed Brooklyn Bridge into Manhattan, but any line to downtown Brooklyn would give free transfer to and from cars to and from Park Row, Mnhattan. The fare zone on the first line was Bartell-Pritched Sq., on the south boarder of Prospect Park and there was a similar fare zone point for the second line.
No, not Metropolitan Avenue. Metropolitan Avenue was not used by the South Brooklyn during the time period discussed nor did it figure in any way with the delivery of new subway cars EXCEPT for the brief time that B-Types were delivered to the 14th Street line when it was isolated from the rest of the system, and some trackage on Metropolitan Avenue might have been involved.
And when was Metropolitan Avenue operated by PCC's? It always used double-end equipment, both when it ran through under the Jamaica elevated to 168th Street and when it was cut back to Metropolitan and Jamaica, and neither terminal had loops, just crossovers.
The "Main Line" of the South Brooklyn was under the Culver elevated from 9th Avenue on PRW to MacDonald Avenue, formerly Gravesend Avenue, and before that just the Culver RofW in steam train days. The BRT electrrified the line and to get a franchise for streetcar service, their route generally following today's F train up to an area close to Prospect Park, along with elevated service off the 5th Avenue elevated via 9th Avenue station, they had to allow the PRW to become a street. At one time in summer months, the tracks saw open bench summer streetcars, gate elevated cars, and LIRR special steam trains from the Bay Ridge ferry and from points on Long Island, all bound for Coney Island.
Again, the Dual Contracts mandated that there was to be no extra fare on rapid transit lines, but it left extra fares on streetcars untouched.
I assume that South Brooklyn does still connect with Bush Terminal west of 9th Avenue, west of the track connection to the 36th Street station of the 4th Avenue subway, and that rock ballast comes via New York and Atlantic car float fo the 38th Street Piers of Bush Terminal, which is still active. But Bush Terminal may still have the 1st Avenue in-street conenction down to the LIRR at Bay Ridge. IN any case, the stone ballast would move over the West End Line. I was told the street trackage on MacDonald had been removed and the southwest quadrant curved and graded interchange track to the LIRR Bay Ridge line had been removed. That was the way most South Brooklyn freight moved in my day, including new subway car deliveries, which took a trip on streetcar tracks before Coney Island yard arrival.
And after Plant & Structures turned streetcar operation over the Williamsburg Bridge back to the BMT (which had continued to operate its Broadway Brooklyn elevated subway trains over the bridge, none of streetcar lines over that bridge had a second fare zone. And note that I said endpoint to endpoint via subway was just a nickle.
Dual contracts elimnation of the extra fare to Coney Island onlly applied to the rapid trajnsit trains, both subway and elevated.
The freight carrier was the South Broooklyn Railroad. Owned by the BMT and then by the NYCTA and its last freight service was delievary of new subway cars, and was kept as an ICC reporting mark for that purpose for several years after the last real shipper closed down or moved to trucks.
I think he closed down. It was a petrolleum storage facility receiving and loading tank cars, almost surrounded by NYCTA (BMT) yard tracks.
The freight line was definitely the South Brooklyn Ry.
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