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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, January 26, 2013 6:00 PM

As I recall, and I cannot be more specific at this time, Southern did have some articulated engines, which were used primarily in southwest Virginia.

I was astounded to learn that the Seaboard also had articulated engines because I had never thought of it as a road that needed such.

Johnny

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:07 PM

KCSfan

narig01

KCSfan

In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them?

Mark 

Kind of a not so wild guess:  EMD's FT? 1940. The FM railcars OP800 in 1939?    I did not think Southern had bought any new power during the depression. And I do not remember Southern having any EMC doodlebugs.

Thx IGN

No pun intended but you're on the right track IGN. FM supplied the opposed piston 800 hp (OP800) diesel engines but another firm was the builder. Also in what service did the Southern use use these engines? You need to tweak your answer just a bit.

Mark

Built by St Louis. Baggage-RPO.  I've been trying to get to my copy of diesel spotters guide(its somewhere just can't get to it). 

          I was trying to remember the entry.  I finally looked at the wikepedia entry. What I do remember is that Southern had a bad time of it during the 1920's and the following depression. As a result (I think) they missed the doodlebugs, early switchers, and early streamliners. The 1920's and 30's were the times when a lot of experimentation and prototype equipment was built to try the concept. 

         Southern by way of contrast did not have the money to buy even used equipment. In addition being down south they did not have to worry about smoke abatement in the larger cities of the north. 

        By the end of WW II the majority of the steam locomotives on Southern were close on 30 years old. Reequipping with steam after seeing the benefits of diesel locomotives was more then an obvious choice.

     As I remember Southern did not have much if any of the "Super" power(2-8-4, 4-8-4 or larger) nor any articulated locomotives.

Thx IGN

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:04 AM

narig01

KCSfan

In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them?

Mark 

Kind of a not so wild guess:  EMD's FT? 1940. The FM railcars OP800 in 1939?    I did not think Southern had bought any new power during the depression. And I do not remember Southern having any EMC doodlebugs.

Thx IGN

No pun intended but you're on the right track IGN. FM supplied the opposed piston 800 hp (OP800) diesel engines but another firm was the builder. Also in what service did the Southern use use these engines? You need to tweak your answer just a bit.

Mark

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, January 26, 2013 7:55 AM

KCSfan

In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them?

Mark 

Kind of a not so wild guess:  EMD's FT? 1940. The FM railcars OP800 in 1939?    I did not think Southern had bought any new power during the depression. And I do not remember Southern having any EMC doodlebugs.

Thx IGN

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, January 25, 2013 9:41 AM

In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them?

Mark 

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 25, 2013 6:46 AM

KCSfan

Illinois Central -

 2 car unit: Land 'o Corn - Chicago to Waterloo, IA

Single car units: Illini - Chicago to Carbondale and Miss Lou - Jackson MS to New Orleans

Sold to NYS&W

Mark

and NYS&W split the Land o' Corn into two separate units. Your question, Mark.  Dave got the destination but not the origin RRs.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, January 25, 2013 5:34 AM

Illinois Central -

 2 car unit: Land 'o Corn - Chicago to Waterloo, IA

Single car units: Illini - Chicago to Carbondale and Miss Lou - Jackson MS to New Orleans

Sold to NYS&W

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 25, 2013 2:59 AM

Susquahana, Paterson - Lincoln Tunnel Transfer Station, ending Butler - Jersey City

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:44 AM

This rairoad bought 2 single unit diesel railcars and one two-unit diesel railcar train.  Where did the cars and train run at first, and where did they eventually end up?

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:22 AM

rcdrye

Missouri Pacific's ACF MotoRailer 670 originally used between Union and Lincoln Neb. as a connection for the Missouri River Eagle, replaced by bus service about 1954.  Later used as the Delta Eagle from Helena to McGhee Arkansas (connection to Memphis), where snowdrifts weren't as much of  a problem as in Nebraska.  Out of service in 1960.  Known as the "Eaglet".

Excellent answer Rob - complete and 100% accurate. Though not an official name, from 1942 when it was first placed in service the 670 was known by railroaders and locals alike as the Eaglette or Eaglet. Next question please.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:40 AM

Missouri Pacific's ACF MotoRailer 670 originally used between Union and Lincoln Neb. as a connection for the Missouri River Eagle, replaced by bus service about 1954.  Later used as the Delta Eagle from Helena to McGhee Arkansas (connection to Memphis), where snowdrifts weren't as much of  a problem as in Nebraska.  Out of service in 1960.  Known as the "Eaglet".

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 6:47 PM

This car was designed to seat 34 and additional bench seating had to be installed in the baggage/express compartment to help accommodate WW2 passenger loads which sometimes approached 100 persons.

Mark

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:10 PM

The PRR ferry service was actually a "trackage rights" operation on the GTW ferries.  To get around cabotage restrictions, GTW and PRR set up a joint subsidiary known as the Grand Trunk Milwaukee Car Ferry Transportation Co.  No real operational changes were made and the joint subsidiary provided a fig leaf to get around the prohibition of foreign (Canadian, in this case) ownership of a domestic steamship operation.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 7:08 AM

Sorry guys but the motor car was not an RDC or a McKeen and the train did not run on either the RI or the UP. It had a set of controls at both ends of the car so it never had to be turned.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:52 AM

The car was a Budd RDC and it was its configuration, mail, baggage, passenger, that made it unique.

The owner was the Rock Island, and its second use was from Mempjs to Tucomcari relacing the Chacto (Sp?) Rocket.   I am unsure of its first assignment, but it was probably a route out of Mineeapolis.

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:07 PM

WAG Union Pacific and the McKeen Railcar?

Rgds IGN

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:34 PM

On its original route it was not uncommon for heavy winter snow drifts to prevent the operation of this motor car requiring a substitue steam powered train to be run in its place. This was not a problem on the other route to which it was later reassigned.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, January 21, 2013 5:42 PM

This streamlined single unit motor car was the only one of its kind owned by a certain major railroad. During its lifetime it ran first on a branch line connecting with one of the roads fleet of streamlined trains. After the discontinuance of passenger service on that branch it ran for several more years on a different route as the remnant of a discontinued member of the roads named streamlined fleet. What type of car was this, who was the car's builder and what were the two routes over which it operated?

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 21, 2013 9:33 AM

Mark, you are wrong: the Pere Marquette/C&O used two docks at MilwaukeeSmile. I really should have written "slip", and not "dock." The morning trip from Ludington docked (slipped in?) at the Jones Island Slip, and returned to Ludington from there; the other trips used the "St. Paul Slip, foot of Maple Street."

The PRR was still operating (according to the Guide) the service in 1950, and it did not offer passenger service. Some of its schedules had the same departure times as the GTW's did, but there are enough differences to indicate that the PRR did have its own service. Incidentally, I had not been aware of this route until I glanced at the PRR's map in the Guide.

You had no competition (did no one else have the slightest idea?), so you are again burdened with coming up with another question.

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:50 AM

Johnny, I think the Pennsylvania RR's ferry service between Muskegon and Milwaukee may still have been in operation in 1950. If so, it's the one I had previously omitted and would  be the ferry route that was freight only. The road that used two different docks at one of its ports was either the Ann Arbor or Pere Marquette. I don't know which it was but will guess it was the Ann Arbor at Frankfort.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, January 19, 2013 3:36 PM

Mark, you have omitted one road, and the GTW still had limited passenger accomodations. Also, you not tell us which road used two different docks in one of its ports.

From the CP's map in the issue I quoted it had no service into Milwaukee, but still had steamship service  between Ft. McNicoll and Owen Sound and Port Arthur; no schedules were shown, perhaps because there was no service in February.

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:29 PM

Johnny, I don't have a 1950 OG but a couple of years earlier the following cross lake ferry routes are shown in the Guides.

Ann Arbor RR - Frankfort, MI to Manitowoc, Marinette, Kewaunee and Manistique

Pere Marquette RR - Ludington MI to Milwaukee, Manitiwoc and Kewaunee

Grand Trunk (CN) - Muskegon, MI to Milwaukee - A 1946 OG listing indicates limited passenger accommodations are available so I suspect this was the route which no longer carried passengers by 1950.

Additionally the CP operated a ferry service between Milwaukee and Ft. McNicoll and Owen Sound on Lake Huron's Georgian Bay.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, January 19, 2013 11:05 AM

IGN (International Great Northern?), your second posting did clarify the question for me.

The February, 1950, Guide shows four roads operating car ferry service across Lake Michigan. The ferries were operated between four ports in Michigan and one port in Michigan and four ports in Wisconsin, with a total of nine routes. Name the roads and the routes each one operated. Also, which road used two docks in which city? Which road did not carry passengers on its ferries?

Johnny

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:30 AM

Deggesty

Are you referring to "The Streetcar Named Zephyrette" (an article in Trains)? After buying two RDC's the WP ran them in triweekly service between Oakland and Salt Lake City under the name Zephyrette. The article made me want to ride the train.

This took all of 20 minutes to get 2 correct answers.  Johnny you were first.

     I was trying to think of something that could be obfuscated. It was that or another traction question.     

     The item I read about the train was by the late Hal Carstens. He also pointed out that the hostesses on the California Zephyr had the same title. And then wondered if anyone had ever asked  "Hey Budd?"

Anyway Johnny your question.

Thx IGN

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 18, 2013 10:21 AM

The answer ties in rather nicely with some prior posts, the train was WP's "Zephyrette", which was an RDC that ran on a tri-weekly schedule between Salt Lake and Oakland.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, January 18, 2013 10:18 AM

Are you referring to "The Streetcar Named Zephyrette" (an article in Trains)? After buying two RDC's the WP ran them in triweekly service between Oakland and Salt Lake City under the name Zephyrette. The article made me want to ride the train.

Johnny

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Posted by narig01 on Friday, January 18, 2013 10:00 AM

I should reword this a little.

One long distance train had, albeit with a feminine sounding name, and the Zephyr name in it, was not run by Burlington.

Thx IGN

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Posted by narig01 on Friday, January 18, 2013 9:57 AM

The name Zephyr is associated with Chicago, Burlington & Quincy.  IE Pioneer Zephyr, Ak Sar Ben Zephyr. However one long distance train, albeit with a feminine sounding name, was not run by Burlington.

Name the train, end points and railroad.

Thx  IGN

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:51 PM

narig01

One was I would think Rock Island.  I can rememeber seeing many pictures of an RDC in the middle of a train(the Twin Cities Rocket?).

             The other  New York Central. The connections from Messina, NY to Buffalo?

Strange non-RDC trailer. I'll give this quotation : "The LIRR voided their warranty with the Budd Company as a result of the practice of coupling a “ping-pong” car to the RDC."

From here: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirr_rdc.htm

Rgds IGN

Rock Island was one, using the RDC to extend a train south on the line to Texas.  NYC only did it regularly in Michigan with an Ann Arbor-Detroit car that was carried in the other direction on a regular MC train.

The Rock's strange trailer was a prewar low-roof Rocket observation that had a bagage room cut into its back end - but they left the solarium!  RI also had 30 ft RPO compartments on their RDC3's to carry crates of live chicks.

A picture of the Baggage-observation (probably on the Cherokee, though it was modifed to use with the RDC)  http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1928554 

There were a bunch of railroads that pulled ordinary trailers with RDCs - voiding the warranty.  C&EI, M&St. L., C&O and LIRR spring to mind.  C&EI put a propane heater in a P-S coach to use on the Meadowlark. C&O pulled a heavyweight baggage-mail behind a pair of ex-M&St. L RDC4's. 

Your Q, IGN

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Posted by narig01 on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:28 PM

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