You've got the trains and route right Rob. The Georgia RR downgraded their passenger trains No's 1 & 2 to mixed trains in July 1969 which ran the 171 mile route in 3hrs-45min for an average speed of 45.6mph. While every station between the two cities was a flag stop, passengers were scarce so they rarely made many stops, and their freight consist was limited to through cars so there were no pick ups or set outs en-route. In March this restriction was dropped and freight cars to and from intermediate points were added to the trains resulting in much slower run times. Passenger service was discontinued not long after the Georgia Road became a part of the SCL/L&N Family Lines and they became straight freight trains. However, the fact that they ran on into the 1980's, made them probably the last true mixed trains in the continental US.
Mark
Those would be the Georgia RR "super mixeds" from Atlanta to Augusta initially with former A&WP and WRofA Crescent carsand a boiler geep, plus the freight power. They were around until 1983.
rcdrye It doesn't quite fit in our 50 year window, but Southern ran the Piedmont from Washington to Atlanta in the early 70's with a coach or two and a bunch of TOFC added at Pot Yard. Average TT speed was around 50 MPH.
It doesn't quite fit in our 50 year window, but Southern ran the Piedmont from Washington to Atlanta in the early 70's with a coach or two and a bunch of TOFC added at Pot Yard. Average TT speed was around 50 MPH.
Not the trains I had in mind, Rob, but your reply caused me to realize that the ones I'm looking for also ran fewer than 50 years ago and I had overlooked that parameter when I posted the question. Unlike the Piedmont, the trains I have in mind were officially listed as mixed trains. However, they didn't become "mixeds" until 1969.
Dave's question prompted me to ask this one. For a short time trains unofficially dubbed "The Super Mixeds" ran with a lightweight streamlined coach on what was probably the all time fastest mixed train schedule. Name the railroad that ran these trains, the endpoints of their route and if possible their average speeds.
Mark is the winner, should ask the next question, but that is not the car or train I rode.
I was thinking of the Wichita-Denver sleeper, MP mixed Wichitq - Herindon (Sp?) and MP Colorado Eagle to and from Pueblo, D&RGW to and from Denver
I would agree with Mark. The sleeper was sometimes returned empty to Clifton Forge since it was nicer for patrons to use the Greenbriar's Limo to Covington rather than dawdle downhill sandwiched between a boiler GP7 and an empty hopper and caboose. I have seen listings with both 10-6s and 11 DBR cars. 1967 OG shows an 11DBR car westbound on the FFV (3) , eastbound on the George Washington (2). Westbound arrival 8AM (Just in time for breakfast!), Eastbound open for occupancy 10PM, depart at 11PM. Car was cut in/out at Clifton Forge.
Perhaps I should have added that the FFV's through sleepers and coaches ran on the Pennsy between NY and Washington.
Dave, I believe that would be the New York - Hot Springs sleeper which ran on the C&O's Fast Flying Virginian between NY and Covington and on a mixed train between Covington and Hot Springs.
Porbably turned over to the Reading at the B&O station. Also, I suspect Reading power continued to Willksbarre, with a CNJ crew from Bethlahem.
Do you have the schedule? What aobut meals if any were necessary?
My question: A sleeper. rode in 1959, a Lightweight, probably 10 and 6, but not necessaily: One moderate sized city and one large city as endpoints. Part of a consist of a full-service streamliner for part of its trip and part of a mixed train for part of its trip. Daily operation. Streamliner associated with one railroad but actually ran on two different railroads, one not a subsidieary or the other.
The Pullman (always a heavyweight) had originated in Washington on the B&O, turned over to the Reading at Philadelphia. It appears 1952 was the last year for Washington, 1957 for through operation (apparently also including New York - Syracuse service.) The reading/CNJ portion may have operated a while longer as a mail train with rider coaches. Go ahead with the next question.
Well, I came close. I assume I was correct about the train earlier (not necessarily ending at 1952) coming from Washingon, or at least its Pullman originating at Washington. Otherwise, what would your stated fourth railroad be? And whaat year did the through Pullman last operate?
Do I ask the next question or would you prefer to do so? The choice is clearly yours. In later years, was the 8&5 a lightweight?
Since it's gone five days I'll give it up:
The train was the Interstate Express, a joint RDG-CNJ-DL&W operation. RDG to Bethlehem, CNJ to near Wilkes-Barre (using the Reading station in Bethlehem, not the CNJ station), then DL&W from Wilkes-Barre to Scranton, Binghamton and Syracuse. Though the train did use the Scranton DL&W station, the New York Pullmans were sometimes exchanged at Binghamton. Except for maybe mail and express the only through car was the Pullman, in later years an 8 sec 5 DBR.
The station would be the Scranton DL&W station, so the train is a B&O from Washington to Philadelphia (via B&O station, moved to Reading Terminal when the B&O discontinued passenger service north of Baltimore in 1952), Reading to Bethleham, CNJ to Scranton? Or CNJ and DL&W to Scranton, interchange at Northampton or whatever, and then DL&W north. I know the DL&W did once have passenger service to Rochester, possibly via Conandaigua. I must Google the DL&W and see if that is the definite answer. Was the train a year-round operation or only during summer months for vacation travel to the Finger Lakes?
OK, after lookiing at the map I see Rochester was gone by 1922, and so Utica and Richfield Springs come to mind, with the latter a popular summer vacation terminal. Possibly the train was called the Lake Shore Limited, even though the Lake(s) were not the same lakes as served by the NYC train.
The train I'm looking for was about as low as you could go and nearly get "all pullman" status. After the sleeper was picked up from the CNJ, the train sat in a station that's now part of a National Historic Site, and then picked up cars from a New York-Buffalo train for its final destination.
Did CNJ of Pennsylvania ever have a line through Scranton to connect with the NYCentral. possibly at Jim Thorp, PA? If so, then it might have been a Washington, and then only Philadelphia, section of one of its main east-west trains, like the Lake Shore Limited or the Wolverine, etc. But more likely it was a D&LW train, and I will have to study a map and train names. Obviously, both NYC and D&LW had Chicago Limiteds
As a CNJ train, the train carried head end cars, a rider coach and a heavyweight sleeper or two. The northwatrd connecting carrier used it for connections to its mainline trains between its two main endpoints, though by the late 1950's that required a train change in Scranton.
Erie, PA,, and Oil City Special?
Schenectidy and The Electric City Limited?
You've bracketed the northern endpoint pretty nicely. As another hint, the train shared its name with an NYC train that served the same city.
If it ran through to Washington at one time, then the 4th railroad would have been the B&O south from Philadelphia. Scranton - Washington, or what about from Albany on the D&H. Or from Rochester on the Lackawanna?
daveklepper Was there some kind of joint Erie or Lackawanna service south from Binghampton of even Buffalo thorugh Betheham to Philadelphia that used the CNJ just for a short distance, but was basically a Reading - Erie or Reading DL&W train? .
Was there some kind of joint Erie or Lackawanna service south from Binghampton of even Buffalo thorugh Betheham to Philadelphia that used the CNJ just for a short distance, but was basically a Reading - Erie or Reading DL&W train? .
You are on the right track, but it wasn't Binghamton or Buffalo. At one time it went on to Washington D.C.
And it also touched Phildadelphia, so where did it go on the CNJ-PA once it got to Bethleham? If it had touched Allentown, then it could have gone west on the Lehigh Valley, although the LV could and did exchange with the Reading dirctly in Bethleham. It could not have been the Queen of the Valley, Was there some kind of joint Erie or Lackawanna service south from Binghampton of even Buffalo thorugh Betheham to Philadelphia that used the CNJ just for a short distance, but was basically a Reading - Erie or Reading DL&W train? Peerhaps even a Cleveland or Chicago - Philadelphia train.
It was a joint train with Reading, but also one (originally two) other carriers. It did touch Bethlehem, but not Allentown.
I think it was the Reading's train between Allentown and Philadlephia, with CNJ ussed between Allentown and Bethlahem. It was shown in the Readinig timetable but not the CNJ.
The last passenger service by the Central of New Jersey in Pennsylvania wasn't even shown in the CNJ section of the official guide in its last months (1957). What was the train, and where did it go?
rcdrye - The original railroad name (technically, the railroad name is still used, at least on paper), Cincinnati Southern - What year it began service? 1881 (5 ft guage) standard guaged in 1886 - Which city built this line and what are the city endpoints of the main line? Cincinnati OH endpoints are Cincinnati and Chatanooga TN - Which railroad is leasing this line? Technically it's still leased by the Cincinnati New Orleans and Texas Pacific, operated by parent Norfolk Southern BONUS: When is the lease up on this line? 2026
- The original railroad name (technically, the railroad name is still used, at least on paper),
Cincinnati Southern
- What year it began service?
1881 (5 ft guage) standard guaged in 1886
- Which city built this line and what are the city endpoints of the main line?
Cincinnati OH endpoints are Cincinnati and Chatanooga TN
- Which railroad is leasing this line?
Technically it's still leased by the Cincinnati New Orleans and Texas Pacific, operated by parent Norfolk Southern
BONUS: When is the lease up on this line?
2026
Very good - you got the answer. The next question is yours, rcdrye.
The Rathole....CNO&TP
Cincinatti, New Orleans and Texas Pacific
Don't know.
Cincinnati, Cincinatti and don't know.
Souther Ry , Now NS, the Thoroughbred.
Don't know but probably 99 yrs after entering into th lease.
i
What mainline was built by a city and is still owned by that city and is leased to a Class 1 carrier?
Name:
ZephyrOverland Would this be the Frisco Twin Meteor? I'm only aware of two routings - St. Louis-Parsons and St. Louis-Paris. Would the town you're looking for be Joplin?
Would this be the Frisco Twin Meteor? I'm only aware of two routings - St. Louis-Parsons and St. Louis-Paris. Would the town you're looking for be Joplin?
The SL-SF's Twin Meteor is correct. One Twin Meteor, No's 5&6, ran between St Louis and Oklahoma City and between StL and Monett carried two sleepers, a StL-Joplin car and a StL-Ft Smith car. Westbound the Twin Meteor left StL15 min after the Meteor and arrived the next morning in OkC 1 hr-10 min after it. East bound the Twin Meteor left OkC 2 hrs ahead of the Meteor and arrived in StL 20 min ahead of it.
A second Twin Meteor, No's 305&306, ran between Monett and Wichita and carried the StL-Joplin sleeper. The third Twin Meteor, No's 705&706, ran between Monett and Paris, TX and carried the StL-Ft Smith sleeper. Monett, not Joplin, was the town served by all three trains.
While you didn't completely answer the question, you were on the right track so I'll declare you the winner ZO and look forward to your next question.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter