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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, May 5, 2013 12:18 AM

Dave:

A slight correction to your last post.

The Oriental Limited was a GN train and the North Coast Limited was a NP train. The NP monad was a Korean symbol of peace and tranquility.

I don't believe that the NP had as many silk trains as the GN, so I will start a new post on that subject.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, May 4, 2013 1:37 PM

The Southern Railway's Cincinnati - Jacksonville, Ponce De Leon, with through sleepers from Chicago and Detroit to Miami and St. Petersburg.   Ponce de Leon was the Spanish discoverer of Floroida and brought the first settlers there.   I know Cuba became "indpendent" and Peurto Rico a USA possession after the Spanish-American War, but I believe Florida stopped being a Spanish possession much earlier.   Someone might remind me of that history.   I believe the train ran on the "Rat Hole" Division, but was not a serious competitor for midwest - Florida  vacation travel in comparison with the PRR-L&N-ACL. C&EI-etc. and IC routes.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, May 3, 2013 12:10 PM

Not the Legionnaire. This railroad operated many passenger trains but the one I'm looking for was the only one that ran on this particular line. It was pretty much a local making most stops but, unlike most locals, it ran overnight and carried a sleeper(s).

Mark 

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 3, 2013 10:35 AM

CGW's Legionnaire?

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, May 3, 2013 8:53 AM

Not the Deluxe. At one time the train split near one end of its route to continue on to two different locations both of which were much better served by other railroads that had faster and more frequent trains. The railroad subsequently dropped passenger service to these two places but the subject train continued to run on a truncated route for quite a while until the mail was shifted from rail to trucks.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, May 3, 2013 4:14 AM

AT&SF DeLluxe   (French word)?

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, May 2, 2013 10:51 AM

Neither the Continental nor the Oriental Ltd. are the train I'm looking for.

Mark

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 2, 2013 10:11 AM

The "Oriental Limited" was a Great Northern train and was renamed the "Western Star" when it inherited hand-me-down streamlined equipment from the "Empire Builder" when the Builder was re-equipped.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, May 2, 2013 6:27 AM

The Continental and then the Super Continental on the CN, Monreal and Toronto to Vancouver    Since it was transcontinental train, it was named the Continental.

Correction:   The answer you want is the Oriental Limited of the Northern Pacific, replaced in the post WWII years by the North Coast Limited.  Mineapolis and St. Paul to Seattle with a Portland section via the SP&S from Pasco.   Thru cars via the CB&Q to Chicago.    Named because of the connection between the NP and the Shiping companies for the China trade, including special fast silk trains.   The NP logo was a Chinese symbol.

In Europe, after WWI, th Wagons Lits company organized the Paris - Istambul Orient Express. which was an all Wagons-Lits train in France and Switzerland, but handled local coaches in Bulglaria and Turkey.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, May 2, 2013 5:46 AM

This train had a decidedly foreign sounding name and in terms of passengers was at or near the bottom of all the many sleeping car routes that ran on the railroad that operated it. What was the name of the train and the origin of its name? What was its route and on what railroad did it run?

Mark    

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:01 PM

Close enough, the yard was to be a great "clearinghouse" for cars to be sorted for passage through Chicago.  The yard predates the village and neighborhood.

KCSfan, your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:31 PM

Like the chicken and the egg, I'm not sure which came first the Clearing Yard or the Village of Clearing.

In 1888 A.B.Stickney, Pres. of the CGW proposed a plan for a railway yard that would include a one mile circle enabling "clearing" (loading and unloading) goods thus avoiding rail congestion closer to downtown Chicago. In 1912 residents of the area voted to incorporate as the Village of Clearing. After annexation by Chicago in 1915 the area became known as the Clearing neighborhood which included the Clearing Industrial District.  

Mark

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:22 AM

Since I live about a mile from its bi-directional hump, I'll offer this question.  How did BRC's Clearing Yard get its name?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 1, 2013 3:12 AM

Again, CCF built the arch-roof 1000-series Otawa cars (maybe as few as ten, possibly 25) AFTER assembline and ourfitting lots of PCC's mostly fo Toronto and some for Vancouver and Montreal, from kits suppllied by St, Louism and I think 1948 was the date, but certainly after WWII.    The other answers are interresting, but not late enough.

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:54 PM

rcdrye

Indianopolis Ralways got some Osgood-Bradley Master units in the mid-1930s.  East Bay Transits 900 series were also very late, though I don't have the date at my fingertips.

Not sure about the rest of the Key System 900's but 987 was built in the Key System shops in 1927.

Here is the plaque at the Western Railway Museum in Rio Vista, Ca

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacksnell707/2921912084/

Thx IGN

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:57 PM

CS,, you are correct  and I believe the builder was Canadian Car and foundry, CCF.   Brill may have supplied some componants.   They were thier first arch roof cars, all their cars before WWII were deckl roof.

Look forard to your question

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:15 AM

The city was Ottawa, which took delivery of the cars shortly after WW2.  I don't know who the builder was.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 AM

Indianopolis Ralways got some Osgood-Bradley Master units in the mid-1930s.  East Bay Transits 900 series were also very late, though I don't have the date at my fingertips.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, April 27, 2013 1:45 PM

You are thinking of Perlie-Thomas cars for New Orleans, but the classic ones now operating were last bought in 1929.  In the thirties, unsure of which date, NOPSI bought the 1000's, their most modern car, with four motors, but they required more maintenance than the 800's and 900's, which were the cars retained in the postwar abandonment program to run St. Charles and Canal.   I am thinking of cars very much like the scrapped New Orleans 1000's, but built much much later, later than most USA and Canadian PCC cars.  The system did require double-end cars.   The citiy is wihout streetcars today, but is planning new light rail or streetcars.   The system was in Car Stop.  Even after abandonment started, the cars still running were well-maintained, looked great, and the track was never allowed to deterioriate.

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, April 27, 2013 1:26 AM

New Orleans, Perlis(I may have mispelled)

Thx IGN

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:09 PM

Which North American streetcar system received the last non-PCC lightweight standard steek streetcar with typical solid wheels, axle-hung motors, and K-type or similar contorls with self-lapping safety-car brakes, a car not significantly different than manhy constructed 1922-1931.  Bought new, from what builder? 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:31 PM

Correct.  The ferry port's station name was Bordentown, now shown as Port Borden.  Mainland was Cape Tormentine. PEI railways built to 3'6" (same as NFLD), some lines dual gauged in 1917, all standard guage by 1930.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 25, 2013 10:14 AM

This would be the Montreal - Charlottetown sleeper on the Ocean Limited, leaving Montreal, cutout at Moncton, and placed at the rear of the Moncton - Charlottetown local.   I rode in the reverse but after the sleeper was discontiniuied and only a coach probided.   And by that time the Ocean was a coach and Pullman train.   And the local a mixed with a boiler GP7, which also did the switching at the ports, last on, first off. I forget the names of the ports on the mainland and Prince Edward Island, but I think one or the other was named Bordon.  I enjoyed luch on the ferry and dinner in the diner.    Canadian National was the railroad for the entire journey.   The trackage ono PEI was initialliy narrow gauge like Newfoundland, but standard-guage I think after WWI.   There is no rail service on PEI now.   There is a causeway with a highway.   Pooo.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 25, 2013 6:29 AM

Even in the mid-1950s, this 8 sec 4 DBR sleeper left a major North American city traveling east as part of an all-sleeping car train.  Several hundred miles east it was cut out and added to a local train that followed the all-sleeper train a short ways, then headed north.  The car took a 9.5 mile ferry ride as part of the local train before ending up at its destination.  RR, trains, and endpoints, with bonus for the cutout point.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 25, 2013 4:21 AM

CORRRECT AND NEXT QUESTION PLEASE

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 1:46 PM

Must be the Providence-Washington (NH-PRR) car on the Federal.  RI senator Claiborne Pell.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 8:34 AM

My memory says that the White River Junction setouts were discontiniued several years before the Montrealer and Washingtonian quite completely.   At least two years.  I don't know whether the cars were sold or leased to the Q.  They could have been third-hand on the CN.

I did acousical consulting work at Dartmouth and also worked on occasion at the NY office.  I used the Owl overnight to NY, the setout sleeper to White River Jc., and then the Allouette RDC's back to Boston.

Another setout sleeper, with some interesting similarities to the two discussed.   Associated with a politician who had a positive effect on passenger railroading and whose political activities in behalf of passenger railroading had about the same time frame as the set-out operation of the sleepers just discussed.   Train was run by two of the three railroads involved in the previous question's train.   (Actually four, since the M and the W were CV trains north of White River Jc., often changing power at that point.)   Which sleeper run was this?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, April 22, 2013 7:33 AM

Correct, of course.  While the train continued south of New York, the cars were almost always setouts, replacing an earlier White River Jct - NYC (Grand Central) car on the Overnighter.  Daily except Saturday.

The two cars (originally Hampton Beach and Old Orchard Beach, Pullman plan 4194) were all part of an NYNH&H/B&M/BAR order in 1954 which included NH-owned buffet sleepers and the 6-6-4s. CB&Q must have had them by lease because they ended up on CN as Green series cars in 1966. Montrealer-Washingtonian service ended in 1965.

The CV trackage was part of the Conn River B&M/CV joint line between E. Northfield MA and White River Jct.  B&M had a track on the east side of the Connecticut between E. Northfield and Brattleboro, CV had one on the west side.  B&M was used northbound, CV southbound.  The CV track survices as part of today's New England Central.  CV also owned the track for the 14 miles from Windsor to White River Jct., though dispatching was handeled by B&M's dispatcher. The third trick passenger switch crew at White River Jct. was supplied by either B&M or CV, since an engine change also took place there.

On to the next question...

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:21 PM
easy, rode it, not once but several times.    Dartmouth College I and Dartmoouth College II, owned by Boson and Maine, I think identacle in construction to the more numerous NYNH&H bedroom and roomette, cars, built by Pullman with stainless steel exterior fluting but not stainless construction.   Ran betweem White River Junction and Washington, DC, occasionally going south and  returning only at Penn Station, but usually Washington.     The cars ran oppoite to each other making a daily service, with a NYNH&H car substituted when one was being serviced.   Northbound was the Montrealer, southbound was the Washingtonian.   Between DC and Penn-NY it was a PRR  train, then to Springfield, it was a NYNH&H train, and north of there a B&M train, however some trackage was owned by the New York Connecting Railroad (Hell Gate Bridge route, Sunnyside - Oak Point Bronx) and there was some Central Vermont trackage used north of Bellows Falls.   Under McGinnis-B&M the service was quickly discontiniued and the cars migrated to the Q and for a while used on the Billinngs - Denver "Nightcrawler."

Power:   GG1, DC-NY. EF3a or EP5, NY-NH, PA NH-Springfield, could be GP-7, RS-3, or F7 on B&M

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, April 19, 2013 6:04 AM

Some of the photos of the later operations of the Georgia mixeds show smooth-side cars in multi-color Family Lines paint. The end of the service in 1983 was a big event.  Georgia RR also offered mixed service on three branch lines (Macon-Camak, Barnett-Washington, Union-Athens) with heavywight equipment.

For one of the last setout sleeper services in the northeast, two fairly new lightweight sleepers were renamed for a famous college near one of the endpoints.  Name the cars, railroads,  train and the endpoints for this service.

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