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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 5:58 PM

Before rcdrye blows this away: two of them involve first the removal of the 9th Avenue El south of 155th and the Second Avenue north of 59th -- both made obsolescent by expanding subway service with NYC taking everything over -- and the removal of the whole of the 9th and 2nd by war's end.  Personally I always thought a part of this was the scrap value, a kind of payback for that 'nipponized bit of the old sixth avenue el' that finally told him in the cummings poem...

Bet a hat some of the wartime construction was rail to new or busier piers near Bay Ridge, or connecting track to reach 'that part of the world' more easily or more quickly... outbound and inbound...

A better detail: not all of those els got scrapped by war's end.  What part survived, why was it retained and not bus-converted, and what led to its ultimate demise?

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:51 AM

New York City had three actual rail abandonments during WWII, all three involving some removal of electrified trackage, all three ihnvolving transfer priveleges of on kind or another, and some alternate rail service on location or nearby.  Give as much detail on the three as you can

Also during WWII, New York City had two rail openings, both involving restoration of earlier abandoned trackage, one a partial restoration and permanent, the other a full restoration,  but abasndoned again about four years after the War's end.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 18, 2021 6:09 PM

The 1100 series cars delivered for the Watertown line lasted until after WWII (with a massive rebuilding).  The TMER&L was one of the few lines that used poles with an AC electrification, however short-lived it was.  The removal of the 1200V equipment more ore less coincided with the cars' rebuilding.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 18, 2021 1:54 PM

daveklepper
Don't know which line opened with AC.

Part of the line to Watertown, commencing at Waukesha Beach.  End of July 1908 was when service began.

As I recall the 3300V was a 10x stepdown from 33kV, the power was converted to 550VDC on the cars, and they could easily get over 60mph out of a 53' car... in 1908... with that setup.

Abolition you TMER&L mavens can deduce from the Kuhlman cars being delivered with the 3300V equipment but the AC having been discontinued when the order arrived...

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 18, 2021 8:30 AM

Thanks:  The Milwaukee Electric Railway and Light Co.   Last two lines operated by Speedrail.  Don't know which line opened with AC.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:58 PM

1951 that line was totally abandoned.  Streetcar service ended in the pricipal city in 1958. There is a recently opened streetcar system there now, though not necessarily on the same streets.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 17, 2021 5:04 AM

1951, abandoned for passenger service only?  has that line been restored as a modern light-rail line? When did streetcar sevice in the interurban's most important city end?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 11, 2021 3:42 PM

The last remaining piece of the line was abandoned in 1951.  Service on the former AC section lasted until around 1940.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 11, 2021 2:43 PM

When did this system exit the interurban electric railway passwbger business?  Did locak streetcar and/or diesel freight continue afterward?  If so, when did these sevices end, or is either still existing?   

You indicated ythat line that had the AC power waws gone by 1940, but this implies that other services continues.  Thus my qtions.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 11, 2021 7:19 AM

IRR didn't have any AC stretches (That would have been THI&E in those days, anyway).  Their only 1200V line was the Interstate Public Service line to louisville.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 11, 2021 3:13 AM

Indiana Railroad, the line west to Terre Haut

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 10, 2021 12:41 PM

Continuing with the 3300 volt theme, the longest line of this interurban system opened with a 3300 VAC electrification in 1907 , was re-electrified with 1200 VDC in 1909, and converted to 600VDC (with some additional substations) in 1924. Abandonment in stages lost the former 3300 volt sections by 1940.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 9, 2021 2:29 PM

rc, your answer is  correct, and it is now your question.  The interurban you mentiomed did start revenue service with AC before the NYNH&H.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 8, 2021 4:25 PM

Even if the 82 miles didn't see trains until 1905 it would still be two full years earlier, in an era where that was an eternity in rapid development of high-voltage single-phase AC.

In any case rc's was the answer I was expecting.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, October 8, 2021 10:08 AM

Dave got it right, so it's his question.  I just supplied the mileage number 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 8, 2021 7:31 AM

I already posted the exact date for the first revenue operation from GCT to New Rochelle.   The history is avialable on the IEEE website, but I forget how to navigate to it.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 7, 2021 9:14 AM

Something I find disturbing, perhaps ominous, is that Burch is no longer available to read via Google Books -- it was when I first tried to put this up as a question.  I had to go in using the Internet Archive copy from the NYPL to reconfirm his date for the electrification.

Something interesting would be to verify the figures for actual in-service dates that the first 82 miles were put in service, and then the expansion.  In establishing priority we should use contemporary credible data; are there references that establish specific events in 1905?  (I'd think that you and rc would be at the top of the list of people who would know...)

No question that it's rc's question now.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:55 AM

Burch may be correct regarding catenary construction.  I'm certain regarding placing in revenue service.  This is different.  Engine change facilities, etc.

You can Google to get the specific information and access to technical papers.

I think rc is the winner.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 6, 2021 6:12 PM

That first installation was built out to 82 miles, in 1904 according to Burch (who was writing only about a half-decade later!) and was quickly extended to 116 miles.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 5, 2021 3:58 AM

Wow!  Never knew about that 1905 install5on.

Catenary may have been extended to Cos Cob and test trains run. but actual operation required the extension to Stamford to open in October 1907.  No servicing facilities existed as Cos Cob.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 4, 2021 6:27 AM

Generally considered to be the 4.75 miles between the junction at Woodlawn and New Rochelle. Opened first to New Rochelle, then Cos Cob, then Stamford.

The first single phase AC electrification beat NYNH&H's by about two years, on the Indianapolis & Columbus in 1905, a 3300 volt installation.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 3, 2021 9:27 PM

24 July 1907. NYNH&H. Woodlawn in The Bronx - New Rochelle

What do you mean by mileage?   Total track mileage AC-catenary electrified?  Route from south-west start of catenary to New Rochelle Station?  Or to east end of New Rochelle yard east of the station?   Or include the DC[third-rail GCT-Woodlawn?  Or just pick any of these, whichever is easiest to determine?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 3, 2021 11:43 AM

Where did the question I posted go?

What was the first successful commercial use of single-phase high-voltage AC on an American railroad?  Give the year, the location, and the mileage involved.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 29, 2021 4:11 AM

Still waiting

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, September 19, 2021 1:57 PM

Waiting for Overmod's question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, September 12, 2021 7:20 PM

Overmod
A legitimate question (not a quiz question, because I myself don't know the answer) is how many cars in 'foreign' paint schemes that were lettered for Union Pacific there might have been?

The answer is few or none, unless you count various two-tone gray Pullmans.

The City of St. Louis domes were built by Pullman to a UP design that was executed by ACF for the 1955 order.  Both of Wabash's Pullman domes (203 and 202, a dome parlor built for the Blue Bird in 1952) ended up on Southern Railway properties, first by lease (from N&W, as 1613 AND 1602) and then by purchase.  1613's most famous job was on the Salisbury-Asheville train run by Southern after May 1971.  All four of Wabash's Budd domes were eventually purchased from Wabash successor N&W by Amtrak.

When N&W renumbered 203 to 1613 it relettered it NORFOLK AND WESTERN in UP paint.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, September 12, 2021 11:25 AM

SD70Dude
I was surprised there was more than just Milwaukee's equipment.

You can practically win money in bars with the equipment lettered 'Pennsylvania'...

A legitimate question (not a quiz question, because I myself don't know the answer) is how many cars in 'foreign' paint schemes that were lettered for Union Pacific there might have been?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, September 12, 2021 2:08 AM

Overmod is correct.  

I found out about this on the Utahrails site, they have a page listing all the foreign passenger cars that wore UP colours.  I was surprised there was more than just Milwaukee's equipment.  

A post in an old thread on the main forum listed them as being the last dome cars built.  

The Wabash car ended up on the Quebec, North Shore and Labrador, where it spent many years being pulled by RDCs on a regular basis.  Apparently it's still up there and is owned by Tshiuetin but is no longer in use.   

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, September 11, 2021 5:54 PM

I cast my vote for the Wabash (and UP) City of St. Louis.  Domes built 1958.

A nifty question since none of the 'typical Internet sources' mention the cars.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 11, 2021 4:24 PM

Did not one car of each train, pssibly two, operate over a third railroad?   And several sets were required for the schedule, not just one set?

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