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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 21, 2023 8:15 PM

If I remember correctly, 1931 on C&O was the FIRST ice-activated air conditioning offered on regular railroad passenger cars (and that date might reflect testing for the George Washington train).

in brief, Washington was a surveyor for a canal company, that did not do well against early railroads but had a cracking good 'low-grade' routing (along rivers) when that came to be a desirable consideration in the late 1880s.  I will put together more detail when I have time.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 21, 2023 2:17 PM

Correct.  Can you spare readers the nead to look up the reference and present a summary?  And ask the nest question.

I had a hint prepared, one of the C&O's named trains. A very early application of air-conditioning and reclining seats in coaches.  (Which had six-wheel trucks).

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 21, 2023 8:22 AM

Would this be Chesapeake and Ohio with 'George Washington's Railroad'?

Had to do with surveying.  (See 'Richmond & Alleghany' low-grade line...)

(And, by 1890, probably desire to one-up the B&O...)

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 21, 2023 5:00 AM

And one Alco RS-3  (Ambassador to GCT)

 

One railroad, Class I, USA. advertised itself as the railroad of a specific Presidernt.  But that President neither saw nor rode nor invested in that railroad.   (But most-likely,  his life-after-death Spirit......)     Explain, please, in addition to naming the railroad and the President.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 20, 2023 7:07 PM

Got 'em all.  The E8s were all U.S. built (like many CP units assigned to the Vermont lines and the International of Maine.

The line crossed into Quebec just north of Troy VT, then dropped back acoss the border to serve Richford VT.  The line west of Newport is owned by CPKC today.

Most of B&M's E7s and the E8 were sold to other railroads in the early 1960s.  The Conn River Line finished with F7s and GP9s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 20, 2023 10:44 AM

CP E-8s also ran Montreal - New Brunzwick, crossing the border twice,

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 20, 2023 5:11 AM

Well, then you must be referring to the USA-Canadian border, and althogh I rode both the Alouette, the  day train, and the Red Wing (at times combined with The New-Englander betwee Concord and Boston), the night train, I did not know or did not remermber that the border was  crossed three  times, not just once.  B&M received just one E-8, the last of an order for E-7s.  The CP got three E-8s.  All four were in pool service, runnig through as the Pacifics did, on the two above CP-B&M trains, Montreal - Boston.  (The New Englander was the CN-B&M Montreal - Boston train,),  The B&M E-8 was kept on the two trains, while  the CP's frequently saw Montreal - Toronto service.

When the Red Wing was discontinued and the Alouette went to B&M and CP RDCs MUed together, the CP's were moved to Toronto - Detroit service,  B&M's last stand for E-7s and the E-8 was Springfield - White River Junction on the Montreallar-Washingtonian.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 19, 2023 3:25 PM

daveklepper

One border?  Between states or oprovinces or countries?

 

That's the question.  One of the railroads owned 3 of the passenger engines, the other one.  In each case the engines were the only ones of that model owned by the railroads, though the one that bought one had many of a similar type.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 19, 2023 7:56 AM

One border?  Between states or oprovinces or countries?

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, November 18, 2023 3:54 PM

Two railroads bought four passenger locomotives to power two trains, a day train and a night train that followed a slightly differnt route.  Both trains crossed the border three times before reaching their final destinations.  After the trains were discontinued, at least as locomotive-hauled trains, some of the locomotives were assigned to a train that crossed the border twice between its endpoints.

Railroads and locomotive types, and of course train names.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 14, 2023 10:01 AM

rcdrye

Way over-thinking this.  New Haven's ex-Virginian rectifiers and Milwaukee's freight Little Joes are EF-4 class on their respective railroads.

 
We have a winnerBow rcdrye, you have the next question.
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 14, 2023 1:01 AM

Didn't know that the cex-Virginian rectifiers took numbrers that had  been used by bthe EP-2, which had been a scrapped when the EMD FL-9s arrived.  However, the rlevent EP-2s did have a  zero in front, 0300. 0301, etc.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 13, 2023 4:49 PM

Way over-thinking this.  New Haven's ex-Virginian rectifiers and Milwaukee's freight Little Joes are EF-4 class on their respective railroads.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, November 13, 2023 10:03 AM

None of the locomotives mentioned in my question were equipped with steam generators for passenger service.  Also, MILW electrification was 3000 volts DC.  MILW E20-E21 had boilers taking up one of the cabs.  Hardware is not involved in my question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 13, 2023 2:00 AM

The NYNH&H EP-2s and the CMStP&P Little-Joes both used pantographs for current collection.  But the EP-2s contacted 11000-volts 25Hz AC, and the Joes 3000-volts DC.  The EP-2s also had  600-volts DC 3rd-rail capability.

 

Both had cabs at both ends,  But the EP-32s were box-cabs, and  the Joes streamlined-with nose, much like most passenger diesels,  but at both ends.

 

Both used commutator motors.  The EP-2s could run on 25Hz AC as well as DC, but the Joes only saw DC.

 

Both had six powered axles, articulated to two frames. But the EP-2s were 1-C-1+1-C-1 and the Joes 2-C+C-2. Four later NYNH&H electric classes, EP-3, EP-4, and EF-3 had the Joes’ arrangement.

 

Both had boilers  for steam heating pasenger equipment.

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Posted by FRRYKid on Sunday, November 12, 2023 11:08 PM

Shot in the dark but that both of those locomotive classes converted the AC to DC to run the locomotives. (Yes, I did have to look that fact up.)

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:03 PM

The only thing I can think of, aside from both classes coming from Erie, is that both groups were built for other railroads, something rare in U.S, mainline electrifications.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, November 12, 2023 10:06 AM

I'll concede that it was an inspired guess on my part (apologies to John Cleese). For the next question, what do GE-built electrics MILW E70-E79 and NH 300-310 have in common?

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, November 11, 2023 7:40 PM

The Imperial (SP 39 and 40, operated jointly with CRI&P) was routed between Araz Jct. CA and Niland CA via SP's Inter-California Railroad (FC Inter-California in Mexico).  Stops were made at Los Algodones BC (Baja California) and Mexicali BC in Mexico before heading north to rejoin the Sunset Route.  The Inter-California was a low-grade alternate route for freight as well.  Trains 362 and 363 also used the route west of Yuma to carry the through coach and sleeper for San Diego via the SD&AE.  Upgrade of the Sunset Route to CTC and the improved operation with F7s and other diesels on freight made the Inter-California redundant.  The Imperial moved to the Sunset Route around 1956, shortly before the I-C was abandoned between Araz Jct. and Mexicali.  The rest of the line north of Mexicali remains to connect with the former FC Sonora-Baja California, operated today by Ferromex.  What's left of the SD&AE also connects at El Centro CA.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 11, 2023 1:33 PM

Greagt question,  and I think you did get the answer.  Thanks to both of you,

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, November 11, 2023 10:11 AM

The only possible train that comes to mind is the RI-SP "Imperial".

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 10, 2023 4:54 PM

For many years, this train from Chicago to Los Angeles left the country for part of its trip.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 10, 2023 9:03 AM

Later this afternoon... I need to verify something before I post it.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, November 10, 2023 8:34 AM

And the next question is....

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 10, 2023 6:37 AM

The Van Dorn used a solid link with holes.  Dave is correct in that the link had a slot cut in it making a sort of hook.  There was a leaf spring in the head allowing the hook to catch on a pin placed in the proper hole. 

The Stearns & Ward is almost like a small version of an MCB coupler.  CTA's heritage cars 4271 and 4272 were still equipped with them last I knew. S&W's would couple automatically.

The Scharfenburg is pretty common on transit equipment and also used on several European high-speed designs.

And finally, the distance from LaSalle to the SCAL Chicago River bridge via 16th St is 1.22 miles.  From Grand Central to the B&OCT Chicago River bridge is just about 1 mile.  The two bridges share an abutment, and the rest of the route to C&NW's CPT is the same.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, November 10, 2023 3:49 AM

If you inclide the moves to turn, I think GTC may be longer than LD.

Van Dorn is correct, and your description iof the Stearns and Ward seems approximately like the Van Dorn'

My recollection of the Van Dorn is that couplers themselves were just about identical to the link-and-pin couplers.  The link was what was special.  Instead of a link with two simple holes, at least one or both ends of the link had a sideways slot, with a spring element that completed the hole and  extended forward with a gathering angle.  the pin could remain in place in the receiving coupler, and as the closure was made, the pin would force the spring element open and fit into the hole as the spring closed.

This made standing between cars durimg coupling unecessary, a great step forward in safety, but it remained necessary for uncoupling.

And the coupler was useless in heavy freight service, because in such service in curve transitions, particularly reverse curves, forces could rersult in uncoupling.

RC can  correct me where my memory differs from what he knows and can ask the next question.

The modern trasnsit-system coupler that I'd blocked on Is Sharfenburg or Sharfenberg.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, November 9, 2023 8:25 AM

LaSalle to C&NW was about a half mile longer than GC to C&NW.  It could be done one of two ways, via the St Charles Air Line and the C&NW Rockwell Sub or via the bypass tracks at Union Station.  Either way got you all the way out to Western Avenue.  Grand Central to C&NW's CPT used the StCAL and the Rockwell sub west of the B&OCT bridge.  I'm pretty sure cars were wyed at Western Avenue (where the Rockwell Sub meets C&NW's Geneva Sub) in either case to get them facing the right way.  Transfer moves were handled with steam-equipped locomotives, and had cabooses for the transfer crews.

The Van Dorn coupler is the one you're looking for.  It has a link that goes between two open sockets.  Pins hold the links.  Common in the wooden car era, it survived into the 1990s and later on work equipment. 

Chicago Rapid Transit also used the Stearns and Ward coupler on North Side and Lake Street equipment.  While it had a link, one end was held by the pin and the other hooked onto its mate automatically, like a model railroad "horn hook" coupler.  S&W's could be mated with Van Dorns by substituting a special link, though that was rarely done.  A Tomlinson can take a link as well, but under normal circumstances there's no pin in the hole for the link pin. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 9, 2023 1:04 AM

Since the move from Chicago Grand  Central to the C&NW was longer than the move from La Sall, Idid get  two right, ao hrtr goes:

Link-and-pin and Janney are not the only couplers that saw wide use in North America.  Tomlison, Westinghouse, and  a  popular European type (blocking on the name at the moment) are still in use by various transit systems and commuter railroads and ususally include integral ele3ctrical connections and often air-brake line connections.

There is another type that externally resembles link-and-pin, can be compatible with link-qand-pin, and has some of the advabntages of the Janney, but not all.   At one time nearly all Manhattan and Brooklyn Elevated trains and an area suburban railroad used it.

Name and full description, please.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 3:51 PM

B&O's Shenandoah exchanged cars with the C&NW/UP/SP Gold Coast for a few years.  The service probably expired with UP's move to CMStP&P from C&NW, though a through Washington-LA sleeper (Shenandoah Westbound, Capitol Ltd eastbound, Super Chief on the AT&SF) lasted to the end of transcontinental service.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 2:40 PM

CSS got blone right.   I got one right and one wromg.  If CSS can come up with a question, I'll be happy to give him the honor of doing so.

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