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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 17, 2022 6:43 PM

SP's Shasta Daylight coaches were delivered in a modified Daylight scheme with a wider window band.  Built of flat panel stainless steel, they got SP's "Tomato Can" paint in the 1960s - basically the Sunset Limited paint on a flat sided car.  SP's Sacramento shops rebuilt seven prewar lounge cars into 3/4 length domes with a portion of the floor under the dome at normal floor height.  Both the big windowed coaches and the dome lounges were passed up in Amtrak's initial purchase of cars from SP.   All but one of the domes and most of the coaches ended up in Amtrak ownership in 1973 or 1974 after many trips under lease on Amtrak trains, including the Coast Starlight.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:56 AM

Shasta Daylight, Southern Pacific, and full-length dome-lounges were added, not dome-cloaches.

Oakland, CA -  Portland, OR

Rode it

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 9:49 AM

For a train on one of its most scenic routes, this railroad ordered coaches with 36" x 54" windows.  Dome cars appeared on the train later.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 14, 2022 12:19 PM

From 1938, at age 6-1/2, or earlier, throgh 1964, The State of Maine always ran via Providence.  There was additional revenue to be had with both passengers and head-end bsiness.  I rode it many times dring that period.

For a time, a scheduled across-the-platform transfer was available at New Haven between The State of Maine and the Montrealer/Washingtonian.  I'm not aware of any sleeper transfer, but there may have been.  Of course before WWII the East Wind provided direct Washington, DC, - Maine service.  I do not know if it "detoured" via Providence.  The WWII Day Express always took the direct route.

Looking forward to RC's question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 14, 2022 6:47 AM

The State of Maine and other Maine-bound trains moved back and forth between the New London & Worcester and Providence and Worcester routes several times over the years.  The route via Providence was only a couple of miles longer but had much better track.

The NL&W and the P&W were separate companies leased by New Haven in the monopoly years. At least an RDC a day survived on each until the PC merger, and on the P&W until April 30, 1971.  P&W broke the lease with NH successor Penn Central in 1973.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 13, 2022 11:26 PM

You got it and should ask the next question.  The Owl was the all-sleeper train and after the ODT order, was all parlor until the ODT ban was removed.   The Naragansett lost its sleeper and  remained all coach during the period when I was a undergrad student at MIT. '49-'53, had on occasion to travel overnight, and cold not afford the sleeper fare.   The Naragansett was discontined around 1965, and coaches were added to the Owl.   The Owl was open for occpancy about 10pm,  but left Boston around 1:30 or  2AM, arriving at GCT around 7AM.  It left GCT around  10:30 PM, got to Boston around 4AM, but passengers could wait to 7AM or 7:30AM before detraining.

As far as I know, the East Wind did not operate during WWII.  The train in mind  was the Starte of Maine, and the return WWII daytime move was simply "The Day Express."  It took the New London (Groton) - Worcester shortcut via the Thames River Line, instead of the SoM's route via Providence and what is now the  Providence and Worcester.  In the last year of operation, the State of Maine was combined with the Owl between GCT and Providence, but listed separately in the timetable.  As  a  regular Owl commuter, nearly every week, I then welcomed the Pullman buffet and orange juice, bagel, cream cheese, and coffee going into GCT.  

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 13, 2022 1:13 PM

1. The two Boston-New York sleeper trains in 1948 were the Owl and the Narragansett (The Federal was considered a Washington train).  I'm going to have to punt here.

2.  Forgot the Southern Railway's Southerner, which started as an all-coach streamliner.

3. Oof.  Those are trains I see from time to time. The East Wind and the State of Maine New York-Portland/Bangor.  Served today via the T's Orange Line between Back Bay (BBY) and North Station (BON) between NEC trains and the Down Easter.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 13, 2022 10:27 AM

The Inland Route never involved a  ten-minute rapid-transit ride between the two segments.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 13, 2022 5:26 AM

Got the first one 100%  Care  to name the  train?  It had a name, all 1st-Class, and remained so into the lightweight era, but then was combined  with its coach compnion' keeping the all sleeper's name.  It continued to the PC - NYNH&H merger, 1970.

Second, you got two of the three.  Do you forget which other RR using that bridge had a diesel-hauled (when not on PRR)  all-coach streamliner during WWII? 

The emergency turn-back  point was usually Philadelphia.  At the worst, it would be Washington, DC itself.

The Inland Route did not have an overnight NY - Boston train with end-to-end 1st-class accomodations during WWII.   However, both the day and night trains on the correct answer's route did serve an important city served by the Inland Route that was not served by the Shore Line Route.   Most towns on the correct answers  roye are served by the combination of two Amtrak services connected by rapid transit, but not the specific important city mentioned above.

  

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, March 12, 2022 3:15 PM

1. NYNH&H Boston-New York (Grand Central).  Today's service runs via Penn Station. 

2. PRR, for the Champion and Silver Meteor.  Two-track bridge was (and is) the "Long Bridge" between Washington and Alexandria.  Not only LOTS of passenger trains but also B&O  and PRR frights to Pot Yard.

3. Not as sure about the third but I'm thinking NYNH&H/B&A through service between New York and Boston via Springfield MA.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 11, 2022 8:30 AM

More hints.  Amtrak runs the first service, before the Pandemic restored sleeper service, but a different station in the major city. not sure about any current sleeper service, and the run is about twice as long, with the major city the midpoint.

All three routes in the second example still see through service, with use of the same double-track bridge and the same necessary engine-change point.  There are post-WWII changes to portions of two of the three.

Passenger service for the day train in the third example ended shortly after WWII.  The overnight ended in the 1960s.   Amtrak has studied restoration, but upgrading of some  freight-only tracks would be necessary, and Amtrak thinks the market is adequately served by two disconnected major existing Amtrak services and the less-than-ten-minutes five-stop rapid-transit ride connecting them  

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 7, 2022 1:16 PM

1.   One major city was involved with all trains for all t5hree examplws of Pullman sleepers in day service in WWII.

2.  One railroad was involved in both the first and third examples, with another railroad added in the third example.

3.  Another railroad, where the sleepers were drawn from its large yared serving the common city, was involved with three other rairoads in the second example, and there was always an engine change between its power and any train of the three other railr0ads, including their streamliners.  Two of those, however, had trains forwarded over the tracks of a fourth to reach the engine-change-point city.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 28, 2022 5:01 AM
Hint for the second example:  The day train took a shortcut, which the night train served during the night.  Although all legs of this triangle, a relatively small portion of the overall round-trip, was owned by one railroad, today I think there are three different owners!   Both the night train and the day train could be resurrected today, but the tracks of at least four railroads would be involved.
And sleepers on the night train also were handled by a third railroad, but, as fas I know, did not run on the return day train.
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 28, 2022 4:58 AM
Hint for the second example:  The day train took a shortcut, which the night train served during the night.  Although all legs of this triangle, a relatively small portion of the overall round-trip, was owned by one railroad, today I think there are three different owners!   Both the night train and the day train could be resurrected today, but the tracks of at least four railroads would be involved.
And sleepers on the night train also were handled by a third railroad, but. As fas I know. Did not run on the return day train.
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, February 27, 2022 9:46 AM

Hints:   In the first example, most use was between two endpoints was on one round-trip train, on one railroad,  The second involved tne  most advertized train or trains of three railkroads, with common use of one double-track bridge, wich was a point of congestion and delay.  And the Pullman shuttles were on the connecting railroad used by all three.  The third involved two railroads.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, February 24, 2022 8:30 AM

Repeating my answer from the wrong thread:

The SOO, Chicago - Sault Saint Marie, with the Milwaukee.

During WWII, one railroad widely used parlor cars to replace sleepers on overnight trains to cater to 1st-Class opassengers after the ODT banned use of sleepers on runs less than 250 miles.  Sleepers were also used for coach psassengers when certain long-distnce all-coach streamliners were turned short-of-destination, when lateness made  this essential to attempt to keep something approaching the schedule, different railroad, the sleepers between their overnight runs were available  and were used for the make-up shuttles.  And involving the first a railroad, a regular daytime trasin regularly used the Pullman sleepers as parlors as the daytime return nmovement of an overnight train. 

All the railroads involved, end-points, and trains, all during WWII.

;

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, February 24, 2022 8:00 AM

daveklepper

The SOO, Chicago - Salt Saint Marie, with the Milwaukee.

 

Wrong thread, but I'll take it.  Milwaukee and Soo Line ran a Chicago-Sault Ste. Marie Pullman (usually an 8 sec, 2 cpt, 1DR) via Pembine Wisconsin until the late fifties using the Copper Country Limited and Soo's nameless 7 and 8 (that once carried the name Atlantic Limited).  In later years it was every other day. 

In addition to this one "line" Soo Line had a contract with Pullman that allowed for borrowing cars as needed, but operated their own sleeping cars, with CP cars on the western routes, especially in the summer.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 22, 2022 8:43 AM

Nope.  Both of the railroads involve in the Pullman line I'm looking for operated their own sleepers at various times.  It won't help much, but one end of the run was Chicago.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 22, 2022 8:17 AM

Was this Pullman handled by the railroad in question?

Was it a Boston - Aroostick Pullman on thr Basngor & Aroostick?  B&M and MC?

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, February 20, 2022 12:05 PM

Since I'm still on the hook on the other forum, how about this?

 

A Pullman line operated to a city prominent in this railroad's name, at a time when the railroad did not otherwise regularly handle Pullmans on its own trains.  Name the endpoints and the raioads involved.

I only knew Cascade Basin was the last pool service car.  I did not know until this morning that it carried IC colors for most of its service life.  Thank the Pullman Project database for that info.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 20, 2022 10:48 AM

I think he missed a sure bet by not asking 'there was a Pullman car painted and lettered for a particular railroad, but the railroad in question neither owned the car nor operated it in their regular service -- name the railroad and give the car data'...Whistling

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, February 12, 2022 9:31 PM

Thanks, and please ask the next question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, February 11, 2022 10:33 AM

D&RGW bought former UP diner 4801 from the Boise Cascade Society in 1979 (they bought it from UP in 1971 - Amtrak bought very little of UP's St. Louis Car equipment).  It served as a spare for D&RGW's lone CZ diner Silver Banquet (CZ ownership split was CB&Q 3, D&RGW 1, WP 2).  After Amtrak took over the RGZ and rerouted the Zephyr over the D&RGW the car was resold to the Xanterra Corp in 1983.  Colorado Rairoad Museum acquired it in 2011 and repainted it as UP 4801.  See the CRM brochure on the car:

https://coloradorailroadmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/No.-4801-Diner-Brochure.pdf 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, February 10, 2022 12:09 PM

Although we think of the D&RGW's Rio Grande Zephyr as; equipment-wise, a decendent of the original California Zephyr, plus the combine from the Prospector. the "Grand:" actually bought one modern passenger rolling-stock iten for the train in its glory period 1970-1988.  What?  Why?  From Whom? When?

Dispossition, if you knos.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, February 10, 2022 9:55 AM

Got 'em all.  The C&O Pullmans also went to West Virginia destinations seasonally.  The through cars ended in late 1968 as Pullman wound down its operations. The NYC train carrying them was the James Whitcomb Riley, the only NYC train whose name survived the PC merger.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, February 10, 2022 8:48 AM

I think the last Pullman on the NYC was a Chicago - Newport News sleeper on the  C&O between Cincinnati and Newport News.  One to Washington was removed earlier than 1 May 1971, if my memory is correct.

A NYC sleeper continued (each) from GCT to both Toronto, using the TH&B between Buffalo and Toronto, and Montreal, using the D&H north of Albany (Rensalaar) or Schenectidy), with the latter  continuing to 1 May 1971.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, February 10, 2022 7:13 AM

I'll chuck out another one:

As the New York Central wound down its passenger service in the mid 1960s, it still participated in three interline sleeping car operations.  Two of them used New York Central operated cars, one carried the last Pullman operated cars on the NYC system.  Name the train and the connecting railroad.  For more fun add the other two interline operations, one of which stayed active (under PC) until Amtrak.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, February 9, 2022 1:26 PM

Sorry, my laptop was in the shop for a few days.  I'll defer to anyone who wants to ask a question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, February 4, 2022 8:15 AM

Waiting for Backstop's question for 17 days.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 17, 2022 9:06 AM

Well Done!  Of course the CN also served Quebec City, a minor seaport, via ferry from Levis across the river.  There was also a Boston connection - the Pine Tree Acadian - using the Gull B&M/MEC/CP route to St. John NB.

Texas & New Orleans (SP) had lots of secondary trains, many with Pullman service, connecting points all over Texas until after World War II.  Most T&NO routes were discontinued between 1950 and 1955, leaving only the Sunset Limited and Argonaut in the 1960s.  Many of T&NO's passenger GP9s served only a couple of years in that role before they were either sent to freight service or to parent SP's San Francisco Commute pool.

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