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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 29, 2024 3:07 AM

Hints:

The wood steel-underframe vcars did not carry passengers

The open-platform cars were steel, built in the 20th Century, and operated into GCT on its opening day.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 28, 2024 5:41 AM

During WWII, open-platform passenger-carrying equipment regularly operated into Grand Central Terminal during rush hours.

And wooden cars of one specific type even after WWII untill replaced by second-hand lightweight replaqcements.

All details for both situations, please.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 25, 2024 6:44 PM

Except that the system was not publicly owned until 1985, that's pretty much accurate.  PRR handled the ownership via PRR/PRSL's West Jersey and Seashore, whose initials were painted on all Atlantic City equipment, including the Brillliners.  Operation was handled by the Atlantic City & Shore, which was a management firm. After the sale the Atlantic City Transporation Company owned the property.  The Shore Fast Line used PRR(WJ&S) tracks between Atlantic City and Ocean City by trackage rights, so ACTC never owned the line to Ocean City.  

The P-RSL didn't change much, except that the Reading got consulted.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 25, 2024 6:57 AM

The Atlantic City System, with the interurban running over first PRR-owned and then Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Line's track.  Municipal ownership led to ending freight service and then first replacement of the interurban to Ocean City and then replacement of the modern "Miss America" Brilliner fleet with buses.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:23 PM

Rail operation of both the streetcar line and the interurban continued for a few years after the sale by the class I.  All operations eventually were replaced by buses.  All track was standard gauge.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:40 PM

Several lines meet that  description.  Did asseeger service continue on rails?  Does pasenger service on rails exist today?  were not some rail service converted to bus while others continued.  And did not and today' railoperations involve two gauges?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:15 AM

This streetcar line and associated interurban, which lasted until after World War II, operated almost entirely on track owned by a class I railroad, which provided steam powered freight service over some of the lines involved.  Sale of the line to new owners ended freight service.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 23, 2024 11:40 AM

RC, would you like to ask the next quwestion here?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, January 23, 2024 10:21 AM

I just finished on the other thread.  Somebody else can come up with a new question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 23, 2024 6:44 AM

CSSHegewisch is up.  Due to the pause someone else can step up.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:57 AM

RC or I?

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, January 22, 2024 5:44 PM

Time for another question...

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, December 23, 2023 11:11 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

That suggests that the northbound runs ran around the Loop L in order to stop opposite La Salle Street Station before making a right turn at Lake & Wells to head toward Milwaukee.

 

The left turn at Lake and Wells was there for South Side trains (which used the outer loop).  From 1913 to 1969 the loop was operated in a counter-clockwise direction on both tracks.  The outer loop track had a direct entrance from LaSalle Street Station. For NYC patrons to connect with North Shore trains at the Adams and Wabash station would have been, at best, messy.  With the around-the-loop arrangement passengers could have a leisurely meal at LaSalle Street while their baggage was transferred to the Congress Street stub.  The Limiteds would pick up the combine at Roosevelt Road before looping to pick up passengers.  At Lake and Wells, the Limiteds would resume their trips north.  This practice may only have lasted a short time.  Observations were removed from trains in 1930 or so.

North Shore honored interline tickets and baggage checks, not a common practice on interurbans.

This practice is hinted at, but not directly documented, in several North Shore books and articles.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, December 23, 2023 10:34 AM

Up to the end of service, at least some southbound morning rush-hour trains circled the Loop, running on the Wells Street portion twice, before running to Roosevelt Road.  I assume they did not stop at the Wells Street Stations a second time.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, December 23, 2023 10:04 AM

That suggests that the northbound runs ran around the Loop L in order to stop opposite La Salle Street Station before making a right turn at Lake & Wells to head toward Milwaukee.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 21, 2023 10:25 AM

Both north and southbound trips terminated at 63rd and Dorchester (how the trains with observation cars got turned there is another story).  Ordinary north and southbound trains had runs of the same length.  Only the ones that advertised direct connections to NYC trains had the extra northbound distance.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, December 21, 2023 10:04 AM

Northbound trips started at 63rd & Dorchester while southbound trains terminated at Roosevelt Rd.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 21, 2023 6:11 AM

Despite operating on a track layout poorly suited for single-ended cars, the North Shore Line had several brass-railed parlor-observations.  They were assigned to trains like the Badger Limited and Eastern Limited, advertising direct connections with New York Central trains, including the 20th Century Limited.  Northbound trips for trains making these connections were two miles longer than southbound trips.  Explain the reason.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 18, 2023 4:52 AM

By all means ask the next questionm, but:

The line was  built to standard gauge because the AT&SF had planned a branch to Farmington.  It was converted to narrow after it was obvious  the AT&SF would not be building their branch.

Any of the four types narrow-gauge 2-8-2s could be used, but the type frequent on the branch was the type rebuilt from standard-gauge 2-8-0s.

The post-WWII narrow-gauge traffic was interchanged with standard-gauge at Alamosa, despite a third rail for standard gauge extending to Antonito. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, December 17, 2023 11:57 AM

D&RGW built its line from Durango CO to Farmington NH as standard gauge in 1905, mostly for the same mining and ranching traffic carried by the rest of the San Juan line.  Apparently the thought was that the San Juan extension from Antonito could be converted to standard gauge with only minor realignment. Once they got tired of transshipping in Durango (around 1923), the line was converted to narrow gauge just in time for an oil boom.  Enough equipment,pipe, and oil traffic remained to keep the branch (and, really, the entire San Juan extension) alive until 1968.  I believe the line had heavy enough rail to use any of the D&RGW's narrow-gauge steam locomotives.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 17, 2023 7:42 AM

A Class-I Railroad built a standard-gauge line, later converted it to narrow-gauge, and never converted it back to standard gauge.

Railroad?  Line end-points? Why standard?  Why converted to narrow and never back?  What type of freight kept the line operational in the final years of its operation?  Describe with as much information as you can the locomotives used on this line in its final years.  Where was freight transferred between standard and narrow?

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, December 16, 2023 3:41 PM

Phoebe Snow (E-L version) ran via Scranton.  Dave came up with the Lackawanna, even though the answer was Erie-Lackawanna.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, December 16, 2023 11:59 AM

1.   Should I ask the next question?

2.  Did the new Pheobe Snow operate via Scranton or Port Jervis?

3.  I rode the Lake Cities before the Hoboken-Youngstown sleeper was drpped.  It ran via  Scranton.  Coach-only west of Youngstown.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 16, 2023 10:04 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
...the fact that Erie missed most of the major traffic sources except for Youngstown was a major reason why Erie's passenger service held up as well as it did.

One of the discussions I saw mentioned a probable reason for the additional connecting bus service.  Akron was a source of considerable business traffic that was not 'conveniently' served by the major Chicago-New York railroads, but that had good reason to request convenient amenities, and also had the money to patronize them.

"Smaller" cities may have considerable high-end travel demand...

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, December 15, 2023 10:09 AM

rcdrye

Considering that the Erie/E-L's route between the New York area and Chicago was long, slow, and missed major metropolitan areas, they competed fairly well, not dropping the final train until 1970.  The Phoebe Snow's post-merger life was fairly short.  It was really more of an Erie train than a DL&W train.

 
There were two different "Phoebe Snow's".  The better known was the original Lackawanna train between Hoboken and Buffalo.  The second was the renamed "Erie Limited".
     George W Hilton opined in an article in TRAINS that the fact that Erie missed most of the major traffic sources except for Youngstown was a major reason why Erie's passenger service held up as well as it did.  It served a lot of smaller cities and towns that buses and airlines didn't serve.
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, December 15, 2023 6:03 AM

Considering that the Erie/E-L's route between the New York area and Chicago was long, slow, and missed major metropolitan areas, they competed fairly well, not dropping the final train until 1970.  The Phoebe Snow's post-merger life was fairly short.  It was really more of an Erie train than a DL&W train.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 14, 2023 8:31 PM

It appears to me that the "DL&W" did not offer motor-coach connection even after the Erie moved to Hoboken.  The 1960 schedule I saw does not mention it.

However, by the Erie-Lackawanna schedule of 1962, the Phoebe Snow has its own bus entry, with the note that it is a 'trainside connection'.

Gone by April of 1966.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 14, 2023 5:47 PM

Dave got to it before I could...

ERIE TABLE1 19610625 - Phoebe Snow (train) - Wikipedia

The locations are the same as those served by the Erie's buses before the E-L merger, and were probably the same buses.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 14, 2023 4:24 AM

I certain was not aware of it, but did the DL&W ever offer bus coinnectioins for vthe Pheobe Snow?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, December 13, 2023 9:23 AM

Give you another hint: the length of time the bus service was offered for the name train in question was probably less than half a decade.

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