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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, June 9, 2022 4:50 PM

The Broadway and the Denver Zephyr were side by side at  the 5 PM departure and 15 minutes apart on arrival.  The CZ left at 3:30PM and arrived at 1:30 PM for most of its life.

There were ony two Chicago stations where this happened - LaSalle (NYC, CRI&P) and Union (PRR, CB&Q+D&RGW+WP, CB&Q+GN+SP&S, CB&Q+NP+SP&S).  The Olympian Hiawatha shared the station with PRR trains but not platforms on the same side...

Do you have a year in mind?

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, June 9, 2022 4:10 PM

Probably the California Zephyr and Broadway Limited at the Chicago Union Station.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, June 9, 2022 1:40 PM

Name two streamliners, one from the East Coast and one from the West Coast, that would occupy adjacent tracks in Chicago at the same time (When on time).

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, May 21, 2022 3:55 PM

Still thinking, but in 95 degree heat.. not coming up with anything yet.  Someone fill in while you have to wait.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 12, 2022 10:47 AM

I'm still thinking, or perhaps 'scheming' would be a better word, of a proper brain-teasing question that isn't esoteric or boring.

I still aspire, someday, of getting to the level of the father-daughter named passenger trains.  But I doubt I will.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 9, 2022 11:04 AM

Waiting for another of Overmod's distingished questions.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, May 3, 2022 6:25 AM

Yep, the Reader quit as a common carrier in 1972, lasted a while as a tourist operation, then folded.  Reader's 2-6-2 #5 operated at a couple of other places in the 1970s and 1980s.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, May 2, 2022 8:32 PM

That has be Lee Reader's Possum Trot line.

When I was a kid, I thought there was some tie-in with schools and libraries...

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, May 2, 2022 9:40 AM

This railroad, considered the last one to operate true mixed trains (behind steam power, no less) ceased common carrier operations in 1972.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 2, 2022 2:36 AM

waiting for rc's qestion

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 25, 2022 3:43 AM

You are correct, except that it's what is now the Orange Line, but for many yearsd was "The Washington Street Elevated," or "The Main Line Elevated."  and the only part of that line that is on the original RoW is the "Washington Street Tunnel" which is parallel, one-block east, of the landmarked 1898 "{Tremont Street  Subway." now the core of the Green Line, but was also the Orange Line's first downtown route, usurping  the outside tracks Broadway and Tremont Street - North Station 1904-1910?, whilt the inside tracks Public Garden - Park Street Loop and Brattle Street Loop at Scolley Square (now Government Center) - North Station continued in streetcar use.

I mentioned the Blue Line in my question.  It was the "East Boston Tunnel." and was bult for streetcars and converted to rapid trsansit and has remained rapid transit, with overhead-wire operation (with pantographs), returning only on the ground-level extension to Revere Beach (Wonderland Station). 

Next qestion

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, April 24, 2022 2:01 PM

I'm pretty sure you'te looking fo the pieces of the Boston Subways that were built for streetcars, converted to Blue Line Rapid transit and then were reassigned to the Green Line.  The Green Line was operated with PCCs until almost the end of the 20th Century.  Since then all of the equipment has been "Light Rail Vehicles" of various origins.  The subway section connecting to the East Boston Tunnel never had its own name.  The spedial lane bus service is Silver Line, but at this point the lieklihood of that getting converted to Light Rail is small at best.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 24, 2022 2:26 AM

Give-away hints.  Most of this Landmarked subway is still in very heavy use, but some portion is waiting for the upgrade of a special-lane bus service to light-rail.  During much of the 20th Century single-end equpment predominated, but today the fscility sees the revenue operation of only double-end equipment.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 20, 2022 4:58 AM

Surprised RC, who assuredly knows the answer, has not yet replied.

National Landmark

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 12, 2022 4:50 AM

 Brussels, Belgium, has more than one subway rapid-transit lines, portions of which were first opened as "Pre-Metro" lines, with streetcars using the tunnels and stations already completed for as long as ten years or more before conversion to high-platform train opertion.  The Blue Line (underground portion) in Boston is similar.  In New York, the 7's "Steinway Tunnel" between East 42nd Street and Long Islkand  City was tested with a Steinway Lines streetcar just before the decision to convert it for the IRT's Queens service.

Where, why, when, were subway tracks converted from streetcar to heavy rapid transit and later back to streetcar?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, April 11, 2022 4:10 PM

As built there were more passenger units, but in later years most if not all did have the boilers removed (NDG could probably confirm which ones were modified).  

Their main passenger use was on the southern B.C. mainline, on the 'Kettle Valley Express' and 'Kootenay Express' between Lethbridge and Vancouver, as well as on unnamed trains between Penticton and Vancouver before those were discontinued.  These trains were converted to Budd RDCs and then abolished completely by the early 1960s, so the passenger CLC units were out of a job fairly early on.  

This excursion might have been the last time a C-Liner was trusted to handle a passenger train by itself, and on the mainline to boot.  4081 was built as a freight unit, being summer a steam generator would not have been needed.

https://railpictures.net/photo/364902/

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 8, 2022 2:45 AM

A guess:   Freight if yiou go by gear-ratio and assigned service (or just assigned service if all had the same ratio) , but possibly passenger if going just by boiler-equipped.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, April 8, 2022 12:45 AM

Sorry, I forgot I was up.  

Did Canadian Pacific have more passenger or freight C-Liners?  

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 5, 2022 10:02 AM

Nu?

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, April 2, 2022 7:57 PM

waiting for SDdude's question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 21, 2022 12:38 PM

Does the name Joseph Whiteford mean anythying to any readers?

Until he passed on, he was one of the major owners of Boston's Aeolian Skinner Orgtan (pipe) Company.  For a considerable period, they were held in esteem as one of the best, if not the best, of North American organ builkders.  The last time I saw him we had inspected a Manhattan church, and I accompanied him to the platform at Penn Station, where he boarded the Silver Meteor or the Silver Star to Florida. He handed his carry-on bag to the porter at the vestibule of the Pullman adjacent to the Sun Lounge, went directly to the lounge, and ordered a drink for himself.  I think the last thing I said to him was "Joe, you now have, for a time, the very best playpen in the world."  I was wrong, of course.  Silver Planet's dome on the Rio Grasnde Zephyr -and it or its sisters on thec CZ  before it were even better.  

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 21, 2022 6:52 AM

Good work!.  NYC also bought the three "Brook" series observations (Wingate Brook, Singing Brook, and Sunrise Brook) from Budd for the Southwestern Limited, which also had the Lookout Lounge features.  Hickory Creek is still in use in private ownership, and Wingate Brook is listed as for sale.  Wingate Brook and Hickory Creek brought up the rear of the last two 20th Century Limiteds in 1967.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, March 20, 2022 5:13 PM

Seaboard's three "Sun Lounges" with windows on the roof.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Lounge_(railcar)

New York Central's two round-end observation cars for the 1948 20th Century Limited, "Hickory Creek" and "Sandy Creek".  The "Lookout Lounge" floor was raised and this section had larger windows. 

https://www.urhs.org/hickorycreek

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 20, 2022 1:34 PM

Two eastern railroads had to deal with clearance problems that prevented the use of dome cars, but nonetheless wanted to offer something close, at least for first class passengers on some of their very best trains.  Both railroads opted for 5 Double Bedroom lounge cars, but with different solutions for visibility.  Name the railroads and describe the cars.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 20, 2022 1:28 PM

None of the Shasta Daylight big-window coaches were part of the initial Amtrak purchase but all of them ended up there first by lease and then purchase. Some of the Shasta Daylight coaches ended up on tourist operations.  I don't know of any active at this point, but at least one was repainted in Daylight paint and ended up at the Orange Empire Railway Museum after some use following GS-4 4449.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, March 19, 2022 10:49 PM

Thanks.  The IC suburban operation and the two LIRR operations thru with Brooklyn Rapid Transit (one Atlantic Avenue to Sands Street and one via the Broadway (Brooklyn) Elevated to the Broadwsy - Delancy Street Ferry, were also uses of 0-4-4T Forneys.  Possibly other "real" rsilroads azlso did?

RC:  Next qestion, and what happened to the Shastas Daylight's coaches? 

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, March 19, 2022 6:20 PM

Forneys are fixed-frame, with the drivers carried in the frame.  Strictly speaking the only wheel arrangement on a true Forney is 0-4-4T.  Common on elevated lines, Forneys were also found as street railway "dummies" fitted with housings to resemble horsecars.  Originally intended to run tank first, they were more commonly run in both directions.

The Fairlie type was invented by William Mason.  There are several variations of Fairlies, but all of them involve truck-like arrangements.   The Mason Bogey is a variation on the Fairlie idea, but with a single "power truck" where the drivers would normally appear on a frame-type engine.  Both Forney and Fairlie designs are known for the ability to take tight curves, and many were set up to allow operation in both directions.  Mason's Bogey design involved a steam passage through a pipe in the center bearing, Walschaerts valve gear, and swing links to center the Bogey on straight track.  While the simpler Fairlie designs were used on several narrow gauge lines in the UK, the Mason bogeys had enough mechanical quirks to be set aside early in their careers.  An 1873 Mason Bogey still exists at the Henry Ford Museum.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, March 19, 2022 2:12 PM

Thanks.  Really happy about "Selkirk!"  Look forward gto the rest of your answer.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, March 18, 2022 11:22 AM

SP Dome cars

3600 (San Joaquin Daylight) retired 1970 sold for restaurant project, scrapped 1973

3601 (Overland) sold Amtrak 9370 1972, wrecked 1977 scrapped 1988

3602 (Overland) sold Amtrak 9371 1972 retired 1982 moved around, may still exist

3603 (Overland) sold Amtrak 9372 1972 non-railroad use rebuilt 2001 for Panama RR "Chagres" in KCS "Southern Belle paint

3604 (S.J. Daylight) sold Amtrak 9373 1972 retired 1981. Was on Minnesota Dinner train may still exist as stationary restaurant.

3605 (Shasta Daylight) sold Amtrak 9374 1972 retired 1981.  Some excursion service mainly in Mexico in 1990s and early 2000s.  Stored in Colorado until 2017, now Canadian Pacific Heriage Fleet car 3605 "Selkirk"

3606 (Shasta Daylight) retired 1971 sold for non-railroad use in Rocklin CA.

The two Shasta Daylight cars had a wider orange window band to match the big window coaches. All of the cars were built with fluted sides, got smooth sides between 1966 and 1970.  All were either painted silver or had stainless steel panels installed between 1958 and 1960 with the red letterboard and the winged ball number block.  The Overland cars later served on the City of SF.  The Coast Daylight got the former "Shasta" domes, at least in the summer months, after the Shasta was discontinued.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 18, 2022 9:43 AM

And can you describe their susequent hidtory?  Any of the domes surviving today?  Or the coaches?

My question:  0-4-4T locomotives were built both as Fairlies and as Forneys.  Externally not much different.  Describe the major differences and some uses.   As much information about both types that you can rovide.  

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