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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 2:16 PM

Pretty close.  The Wolverine carried a car for the City of LA in 1957 - running via Ontario!  NYC had moved the Wolverine to LaSalle from CEntral before this assignment was made.  

The longest moves were between LaSalle and C&NW's CPT, for which the cars.  went all the way out to Western Avenue before returning.  Cars between the NYC and CRI&P, and cars moving between PRR and CB&Q still had to be turned.  Cars to the CMStP&P could be handled via the bypass tracks at Union Station.

As far as I can determine from Official Guides, Cars from the B&O only went to the Santa Fe, requiring the cars to cross the Chicago River twice, on the B&OCT and 21st St. bridges. PRR and NYC swapped cars cars with CRI&P, AT&SF, C&NW and CB&Q.  I'll have to check to see if PRR and CRI&P swapped cars.

All yours.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 11:08 AM

And the longest transfer move occured only up to the C&NW to CNStP&P changeover, B&O - C&NW.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 11:02 AM

The pair that did not require trabnsfer between stations was PRR to CNstP&P after the latter took over from C&NW the Chicago - Couincil Bluffs leg of the UP's Cities streamliners

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 10:08 AM

For part 1, the station is Central Station and the train is the "Wolverine".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 7:31 AM

Between 1946 and 1957 there were several Pullman "lines" that were routed from New York or Washington via Chicago to San Francisco or Los Angeles.  Almost all of the cars had to be turned between connecting trains or transferred between stations. Here are a couple of questions about the service:

1.  Only one of the Chicago stations never handled any of the cars, though in the last year of through operation a train that had used that station carried a transcontinental Pullman westbound only.  Name the train.

2. Participating railroads over the period included PRR, NYC, B&O from the east and C&NW, CMStP&P, AT&SF and CRI&P from the west.  Only one railroad pair did not require turning the cars, though it did require a short transfer move.  Name the railroad pair.

NYC's decision to take over operation of its own cars was the death knell for the service, though it was probably little used in the end and missed only be the transfer crews that moved the cars.  The longest move between stations was around 9 miles, passing through about 10 interlockings.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 8, 2023 1:54 AM

Next questionm RC?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 7, 2023 1:44 PM

CSX owns the bypass and bridge (except for the NEC connecting track, which is owned by either NS or Amtrak). Pot Yard is gone, but the former RF&P has been CSX since 1998 or so.  The State of Virginia purchased a 50% interest in the right-of-way, but has yet to start any enhancements.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 7, 2023 8:53 AM

Well, you taight bme something.  Your first answer, just the catenary in Patomic Yard, is the only correct answer.  I always  thought the tracks on the Liong Bridge and south to Patomic Yard was RF&P-owned., like the yard itself.  That PRR owned it is new information for me.

But I am correct that the PRR and Bn&O freight route shared the RF&P-Southern-C&O passenger route over the Long Bridge, with the freight bypass connected to the north end of that bridge.

It's logical for CSX to own the freight bypass, since it is part of the promary route from the southeast to the northeast and Canada,  Most southeast to northeast traffic on NS probably moves via Hagerstown and Harrisburg, since NS does not have its own freight route Washington - New York Harbor,  running a few trains on Amtrak.  

 Current ownership of the Bridge and tracks to Patomic Yard?  Also CSX?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 6, 2023 6:03 AM

From the point of view of the Coast Guard and the Army Corp of Engineers the Long bridge was always Baltimore & Potomac (PB&W) (PRR) after 1904.  Ownership passed to PC and then Conrail.  In the Conrail split, CSX got ownership of the bypass because NS didn't want it, though NS retains trackage rights.  C&O, Southern, and RF&P all had trackage rights on the bridge to reach Union Station.  B&O had rights on the bypass to reach Pot Yard.  PRR ownership extended to RO interlocking at the north end of Pot Yard.  The yard was owned and operated by the RF&P, itself partly owned by PRR.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 5, 2023 6:50 PM

Amd the tracks on the "Long Bridge" and the railroad between there and Patomic Yard, which also had the  catenary and were used by the PRR and B&O freights, which railroad?

And today, Amtrak, CSX, NS, or Shared Assets?  (Not part of the question, but of interest)

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 3, 2023 6:33 AM

Strictly speaking the freight bypass was owned by the Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore. Pot yard itself was owned by the RF&P, which in turn was owned by six other railroads including PRR.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 2, 2023 12:09 PM

The  freight bypass had the catenary remoived by Conrail in 1982.  it has a bridge over the Anacosta River but does not have a separate Patomic River bridge.  Ny memory is  correct.

But you still should be  able to answer the question. Railroad?

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 2, 2023 11:48 AM

The bypass route still exists today, as far as I know.  At 91, my memory may not be perfect;  however, my memory is that the bypass route does not extend to Patomic yard but just to the north end of the Patomic River Bridge, and was the only reason there was catenary on the bridge.  If I'm wrong, then the question is  wrong, there was no catenary on the bridge, and there was a second bridge  with catenary that still exists without it.  I'll look for it on tge web.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 1, 2023 9:53 AM

PRR (PW&B) owned the track on the bypass route as far as the interlocking at the north end of Pot Yard, B&O had trackage rights.  Conrail passed it to CSX when it was split up, quite a few years after CSX acquired the RF&P.  Ownership now is clearly in CSX's hands.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, October 25, 2023 11:40 AM

As far as I know, no passenger equipment was regularly seen in Patomic Yard.

The 11000V AC catenary was on the still-in-use two-track heavily-used Patomic River Bridge.

It did not exist in the two-track tunnel south from Washington Union Station, except about 500 feet south of the north tunnel portals, and trains using catenary power to and from Patomic Yard yard did not run through Union Station.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 23, 2023 5:23 PM

All this time I'd been thinking it was RF&P.  Now I have to go check.

I remember that one company anticipating running sideloading container blocks to the yard was Southern Railway.  Was the yard used at some point as an overflow coach yard for some of the major Washington PRR (and NH) trains?

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 23, 2023 10:39 AM

Yes, Patomic Yard was included, and now name the ralroad the PRR Used to reach it and the nature oif the traffic.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 23, 2023 4:30 AM

This has to be Pot (Potomac) Yard -- familiar to me as the south end and interchange point of the high-speed container train I developed for Conrail.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 23, 2023 1:03 AM

Washington Terminal was not an independent railroad.  It was partly owned by PRR. Close, however.

The railroad was a Class I.  The electrification no longer exist, but the reason for it may exist, but with much reduced importance and traffic, although traffic that was once under wire remains strong.

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, October 22, 2023 7:16 PM

Wahington Terminal. So that PRR trains could enter Washington Union Station. PRR, B&O, RF&P, Southern.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 22, 2023 1:10 AM

The PRR 11000-Volt-25Hz electrification extended over another railroad, one independent of the PRR, not like the Long Island.

Which railroad?  Where?  Why?  All traffic under the wire, both electric diesel and/or steam.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 21, 2023 7:50 PM

Bump

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 1, 2023 8:59 AM

Waiting for CSS&SB's question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 25, 2023 1:14 PM

Yep.  TP&W got half of EMD F3 four unit demonstrator set 291.  TP&W numbered their two units 100A and 100B, the 100B (291B1) was renumbered to 101 when it got a cab  with a nose that was slightly shorter than standard.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, September 25, 2023 10:01 AM

The road in question is TP&W, and the unit in question was an F3B that had a cab attached to one end.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, September 24, 2023 4:53 PM

The modification I'm looking for was only done once, to one unit of a former EMD demonstrator.  From the front and an angle it looks like a normal F3, from the side not so much. This unit and another ex-demonstrator (from the same set) were the only F3s this railroad owned. 

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Posted by FRRYKid on Sunday, September 24, 2023 2:43 AM

rcdrye

In the covered wagon era, carbody modifications were rare, except for side panels.  One railroad did something to an F3 that no other railroad tried. Although the result was not easy to pick up in a photo, it was easily found with a measuring tape.

 

Don't know if this qualifies but in 1948, the NP rebuilt the side panels on their F3s as there were problems with the air filters. That changed the early passenger scheme (aka Butterknife) to extend around the front porthole. This then became the Phase II standard.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 23, 2023 9:53 PM

Did not the Boston & Maine relocate  the drawbar and coupler further from the centewr for better operation around curves?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 22, 2023 4:37 PM

In the covered wagon era, carbody modifications were rare, except for side panels.  One railroad did something to an F3 that no other railroad tried. Although the result was not easy to pick up in a photo, it was easily found with a measuring tape.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 22, 2023 3:51 PM

rcdrye, don't forget you're up on this thread, too

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