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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 9, 2021 8:59 PM

The final batch of dome cars built in North America during the 'classic era' (pre-Amtrak/VIA, and certainly pre-Rocky Mountaineer) were ordered for a long distance train operated by two railroads.  They all wore the same paint scheme but one car was owned by and lettered for the other railroad. 

What year were they built, and who were the two railroads?

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 8, 2021 9:50 PM

It must have been quite a sleeper ride on the original "Moffat Road" Craig passenger service, with all the swtchbacks traversed before the Moffat Tinnel opened.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 8, 2021 7:32 AM

D&RGW had three of the six domes built for the Chessie (the others were sleeper-domes that went to B&O).  The Yampa Valley got them after the Royal Gorge was discontinued.

The train lost its RPO around 1963, but wasn't discontinued unitl 1968.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, September 8, 2021 2:17 AM

Rio Grande's Denver-Craig, CO "Yampa Valley Mail".  The "Mail" was dropped at some point, and the train also lost the rest of its name before the end came.  

It started out as the nameless passenger service of the Denver & Salt Lake (originally the optimistically named Denver, Northwestern & Pacific).  Carrying the sleeping accomodations on a mixed train probably wasn't conducive to actual sleeping.......

Also, sometimes there were two round-ended domes to go along with the PA:

https://railpictures.net/photo/576330/

https://railpictures.net/photo/567186/

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, September 7, 2021 5:54 PM

How about this...

This train that finished its life with a dome car pulled by a PA-1 had its origin in trains that included a reilroad-owned 4 section coach-sleeper.  Give the railroad(s), the endpoints and the best-known name for the train.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, September 6, 2021 10:40 PM

rcdrye got it.  Once he was asked to get it.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, September 5, 2021 3:44 AM

I'd post a question, but I have one on the other thread that requires an answer that is as obvious as the previous one that was answered by all three systems having more than one track gauge.  I have to doubt that people want to answer my questions.

Please go tyo the other thread, read the question and hints, and answer the question.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, September 4, 2021 11:57 AM

With this site dragging and becoming randomly available, and my not having a suitable 'replacement' question ready -- anyone can ask another question to keep this thread alive in the meantime.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 6:09 PM

My oops   9700 was also booster equipped.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 23, 2021 11:18 PM

Here is the reference page I used that mentions the 2-8-8-0 application; this indicates there were nine (1+1+7)

https://utahrails.net/up-steam-roster/up05-1915-1962-14.php

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 23, 2021 8:41 PM

Looks like 8 of the 4-12-2s (9701-9707 and 9062), the first six with Franklin boosters, the last two with Bethlehems.  I would guess that the turntables had been lengthened by the time the longer tenders were applied to the 2-8-8-0s.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 23, 2021 8:33 PM

Initial reference to tender boosters (and origin of the question with railroad name) was in the Modrl Railroader Cyclopedia coverage of the Nines.  I subsequently found the reference to booster types and tender drawings (yes, they're said to exist both for the Nines and 2-8-8-0s) at Utah Rails and here:

https://history.nebraska.gov/sites/history.nebraska.gov/files/doc/uprr-sg010.pdf

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 23, 2021 2:58 PM

Builders photo of UP 9000 doesn't show a tender booster or even an obvious trailing truck booster (though the trailing truck had a higher load than the drivers!)  My usuak go-to steamlocomotive.com doesn't mention boosters at all.  UP's 2-8-8-0s had relatively short Vanderbilt tenders with Bettendorf-style trucks to fit on existing turntables.  I haven't found a photo of one with a tender booster.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 23, 2021 10:46 AM

The locomotives were early 4-12-2s, certainly not the kind of power I'd slate for tender boosters (although conventional trailing-truck boosting, on a single locomotive axle with complete, balanced disengagement, might have made somewhat better sense).

All nine sets of tender booster were applied to tenders for 2-8-8-0s.  I do not have records of their success or lack of it in that application.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 19, 2021 12:04 PM

A last try before giving it up:

All of the tender boosters were reused, all of them going to be used with the same type of locomotive (but different classes).

How big can you get before articulating?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 15, 2021 9:19 AM

Big locomotive, big railroad where it ended up.

Interestingly enough, it turns out that both Franklin tender boosters and Bethlehem auxiliary locomotives were used, the dates suggesting this was a comparative test.

And -- this will likely give it away -- a number of the tender boosters, after removal, were in fact applied to articulated locomotives.  Bonus points if you know the wheel arrangement and road numbers -- but no guessing, I want specifics!  Still more bonus points: there was something notable about all the engines that received the tender boosters, likely associated with their being the ones chosen to receive them: what was it?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 15, 2021 4:12 AM

Big referring to the locomotives or the raioroads involved or both?

Big locomotives: they were 2-6-6-0s or 2-8-8-0s.  Mallets

Of the three  RRs I mentioned, did I get at lest one right?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 15, 2021 4:05 AM

Think big, not small

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 15, 2021 2:29 AM

I'm going to take a wild guess, two alternatives involving the Butte Anaconda and Pacific:

First guess:  They were buit for the BA&P, who used them with tender boosters, up to electrification, when they were sold to the CMStP&P to replace older branch-line powerl, mostly 4-4-0s.

Second guess:  They were buit for the  Mesaabe, sold to the BA&P as temporary power for use up to electrication.

My guess in both cases is that they were 4-6-0s.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 14, 2021 3:02 PM

One last try: not a wheel arrangement anyone would likely associate with a booster.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 14, 2021 2:42 PM

One last try: not a wheel arrangement anyone would likely associate with a booster.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 5, 2021 6:32 PM

Original railroad in the Northwest, and not particularly familiar to most.  The engines, shorn of tender boosters, and the railroad they wound up on, more so.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, July 23, 2021 8:34 AM

Overmod
 

Be sure to read the discussion in the court case between Franklin and Bethlehem.  There is more history there than you'll find in all the railfan publications...

Will do it if I can find the document. I am just reading some articles from Google Books.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 23, 2021 7:13 AM

Jones1945
...reading some interesting material about Bethlehem auxiliary locomotive.

Be sure to read the discussion in the court case between Franklin and Bethlehem.  There is more history there than you'll find in all the railfan publications...

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, July 23, 2021 4:41 AM

I haven't found the answer yet but reading some interesting material about Bethlehem auxiliary locomotive.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 22, 2021 1:24 PM

I intentionally kept it cryptic for reasons that I think will be clear when the answer comes in.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 22, 2021 4:32 AM

Very good question

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 9:27 AM

In the 1920s, a railroad got some new steam locomotives that proved to be somewhat inadequate in tractive effort for them, and chose to supplement them with tender boosters.  The experiment did not last, but the engines proved more useful elsewhere.  Name the railroad and builder.  Extra points (but not many) for where they went.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, July 2, 2021 6:03 PM

Milwaukee's decision to forego dynamics was surprising, even considering that the FP45s were expected to run with FP7s and Es that weren't equipped with dynamics.  More surprising was the failure to fit them with ATS, which was still in service when the FP45s were delivered.  This initially left them as trailing units on the Chicago-Twin Cities trains, though they did lead on the "City of Everywhere".  The end of ATS and the end of the FP45s on passenger trains allowed MILW only a short time to use them as leaders on the "Hi", "Pioneer Limited" and "Fast Mail".

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 2, 2021 8:00 AM

SD70Dude
Erie-Lackawanna bought SDP45's without steam generators, they wanted the greater fuel capacity that a longer frame afforded.  I guess you could say they were SD45's on SDP45 frames.

I see that there is a modern tendency to label the EL units "SD45M", which I never recall seeing before, which establishes pretty much that point.  Whether this is belated recognition of an 'official' EMD type or one of those 'railfan' terms, I don't know.

I was glad to be part of the effort to preserve one of those CLs a couple of years ago.  They are almost precisely what I'd expect IC to have wanted: the bulldog nose on the angular 'cowl' carbody structure.

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