Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 16, 2019 10:13 AM

South Shore bought a total of ten R2's from NYC.  Six of them were rebuilt to CSS 701-706 in 1955-1958 and one more was rebuilt into CSS 707 in 1968.  The three remaining hulks sat at Michigan City for quite a few years in their NYC paint and numbers.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:47 PM

I will see if I can open and access the Complete Collection later tonight and read the mid-Sixties story in Trains about the R2s' "second career" on the South Shore.  One of them was the 'cover girl' for that particular issue.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:11 PM

Looks like the deal with the South Shore worked out the way it did because the P-Motors already had boilers and tanks and the R-Motors didn't, plus the P-Motors had better ride characteristics and probably top speed.  I can't find what the South Shore paid, but I'm betting they got the R-Motors at a fire sale price, along with the CUT pans. NYC's Q- and R- Motors lived a pretty sheltered life, mostly operating on the West Side Freight line and up to Harmon, though occasionally straying elsewhere.

CUT's overhead was notable for incorporating chain in some pull-offs. 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 1:47 PM

That's them!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 10:10 AM

I'm going to guess that the power in question is the P motors built for Cleveland Union Terminal (overhead wire) rebuilt for service on NYC suburban third-rail operation out of GCT.  The extra parts were used in the rebuilding of the R-2's sold to South Shore.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 4:13 PM

SPSOT fan
Are you referring to the New Haven railroad EF-4s, formerly Virginian class EL-C electrics, that were sold to the New Haven in 1963 after Norfolk and Western, who bought the Virginian in 1959, discontinued electric operations in 1962?

No.  To my knowledge the EF-4s were built to run on 11kV AC and required little, if any modification to be able to run on the New Haven and the voltage-uprated PRR.  As E33s they certainly had a long and effective service life, even if only the moral 3/4 equivalent of PRR's 'native' E44s.

What I'm thinking of is much more dramatic.  A class of locomotives was extensively rebuilt in the Fifties, leaving a bunch of parts left over from the conversion.  These were used to alter a group of locomotives built for the electrification to which the class of converted locomotives went so they could be used in a service for which, likely, the original locomotives could have served.

It isn't a hard question, and we had quite a thread on the first converted locomotives not long ago.  The key is in finding out what was done with those parts...

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 12:41 PM

Overmod

And if you don't like that one:

A railroad famously figuring in many posts here bought used locomotives that had to be modified to run on their system.  They had the work done by a company that used parts from other locomotives from the original owner that were removed to make the 'other locomotives', which had been originally essentially suitable (with only minor modifications) to be run on the famous railroad, suitable for the original service from which the used locomotives were taken.

What are the famous and original railroads, all the locomotive classes in question, and the reasons for the modifications? Extra credit -- but not much, considering -- for the name of the people that did the work.

Erik in particular should get this without particular delay.

Are you referring to the New Haven railroad EF-4s, formerly Virginian class EL-C electrics that we’re sold to the. New Haven in 1963 after Norfolk and Western, who bought the Virginian in 1959 and discontinued electric operations in 1962.

I’d assume the locomotives had to been modified to run on the New Haven’s electric system, as I expect it would have been different from the Virginian system.

Worth note is the fact that these locos where re-classes E33 following the PRR classification system after the New Haven/Penn Central merger and continued use though Conrail into the 1980s.

Hope I got it right!

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, May 10, 2019 12:04 PM

narig01: you are on the right track but need more detail.  Where did the parts come from?

 

Hint for the other question: New Canaan.

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Posted by narig01 on Thursday, May 09, 2019 1:54 PM

Overmod

And if you don't like that one:

A railroad famously figuring in many posts here bought used locomotives that had to be modified to run on their system.  They had the work done by a company that used parts from other locomotives from the original owner that were removed to make the 'other locomotives', which had been originally essentially suitable (with only minor modifications) to be run on the famous railroad, suitable for the original service from which the used locomotives were taken.

What are the famous and original railroads, all the locomotive classes in question, and the reasons for the modifications? Extra credit -- but not much, considering -- for the name of the people that did the work.

Erik in particular should get this without particular delay.

 

The New York Central R Class Motors and the ones sold to the South Shore?    Was just reading the Wikipedia entry. I'll get some other books out later. All I could think of.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 11:13 PM

I am interested in both question from Overmod but I have no clue to the answer. I wish Overmod would reveal the answer of them when posting the new question so that reader and I can learn something from it, but it is up to you. Cheers! Coffee

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 3:00 PM

Hint to the first question: electric locomotives.  The system involved was a pioneer in more than one type of power, and the tested locomotives continued that 'innovation'.  In the years leading up to our entry into a major conflict.

Hint to the second question: it involved locomotives discussed in a fairly major thread a couple of weeks ago.

New question pending if no one shows an interest in either of these two.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 12:40 PM

Bumping this up since there has been nothing posted here in over 25 days. Could we get a clue or two or even a new question?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:21 PM

And if you don't like that one:

A railroad famously figuring in many posts here bought used locomotives that had to be modified to run on their system.  They had the work done by a company that used parts from other locomotives from the original owner that were removed to make the 'other locomotives', which had been originally essentially suitable (with only minor modifications) to be run on the famous railroad, suitable for the original service from which the used locomotives were taken.

What are the famous and original railroads, all the locomotive classes in question, and the reasons for the modifications? Extra credit -- but not much, considering -- for the name of the people that did the work.

Erik in particular should get this without particular delay.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 11, 2019 7:21 PM

.  No double posting.

I am beginning to tire of tech inadequacy.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 08, 2019 9:17 AM

I am tempted to pose this while I'm thinking of a better question:

In the timeframe of a recent question, a railroad featuring prominently in a recent question tested the same number and general type of locomotive in a recent question on an infamous line mentioned in several recent questions.  

As far as I've seen, only one fairly obscure reference mentions this test as having been conducted.  You'll get credit for the railroad and the line, but you'd likely need to find particulars of the two locomotives to do it...

Guessing does NOT count.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, April 08, 2019 6:32 AM

To you, Overmod...

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 2:28 PM

Overmod

The ever-popular, often penurious CHICAGO GREAT WESTERN.

 

The lack of nose MU resulted in six unit A-B-B-B-B-A lashups becoming the normal road power, at least in Illinois.  CGW bought modern power to replace them, GP30s (eight, used in fours) and SD40s (nine, used in threes) but not enough to displace the Fs before the C&NW takeover in 1967.  After the takeover, the GPs and SDs went right over to the parent, and six unit Fs lasted almost as long as the CGW main remained a through route.

For some reason CGW only bought a couple of GP7s, delivered right after the last F7Bs, but with lower EMD order numbers.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 10:16 AM

The ever-popular, often penurious CHICAGO GREAT WESTERN.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 03, 2019 6:40 AM

Overmod
The reason for the 'excess' brake shoe wear (and why it was solved this peculiar way) was the riding characteristics of the switcher trucks on these units when 'road speed' was needed as the units ran downgrade light.

Switcher brake shoes were cast "soft" for fast stops in yard service.  UP looked at using harder shoes, but the cost of using them must have been higher then the cost of the dynamic brake refit.  EMD did ship some SW1200s to West Virginia Northern that were factory equipped with dynamic brakes, so the UP units may have offered EMD a chance to test out the idea.

This midwestern railroad bought A-B-A F3 sets in 1947 and 1948, coming back to EMD for "F5" and F7 B-units in 1949 and 1950, along with some F7A "singles".  Its last order for F-units came in 1951, starting with an A-B-B-A FP7A/F7B set, and ending with four more F7Bs, three of them boiler-equipped. The boiler F7Bs allowed the final retirement of steam on mainline passenger trains, where one was paired with a "freight" F7.  The FP7 set probably never ran as anything other than as two FP7/F7B pairs, and the FP7s often ran as single units.

In the practice in use at the time units were numbered as if they were part of a single locomotive.  Since the initial orders were for A-B-A sets, cabs were -A and -C, boosters -B, with the "extra" boosters added to the original sets as -D.  The three extra passenger boosters were "added" to the FP7 set, resulting in a seven-unit locomotive, the new units getting -E, -F and -G suffixes.

As built, none of the F3, F7 or FP7 units had nose MU, affecting how they were later used in freight service.  Name the railroad.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 02, 2019 5:46 PM

rcdrye
Union Pacific retfrofitted 2400 HP TR5 cow-calf units (cabs only) with EMD-designed dynamic brakes in 1952 and 1953.

Thought he'd get it... that's it to a T (TR,that is...)

The reason for the 'excess' brake shoe wear (and why it was solved this peculiar way) was the riding characteristics of the switcher trucks on these units when 'road speed' was needed as the units ran downgrade light.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, April 01, 2019 9:08 AM

Union Pacific retfrofitted 2400 HP TR5 cow-calf units (cabs only) with EMD-designed dynamic brakes in 1952 and 1953.  The pairs were used in helper service on grades in southern California and Nevada.  Excessive brake shoe wear on light, downbound trips led to the change, but also explains why only the cabs were so fitted.  The dynamic brake equipment was deactivated some time around 1956, but remained in place until rebuilds for other purposes caused its removal.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 30, 2019 11:30 PM

That's pretty standard dynamic braking, for train braking purposes.  I'll grant you the recovery of braking heat in the Rankine cycle is a valuable and desirable thing.

The locomotives I'm after, though, are reasonably straightforward diesel-electrics.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 30, 2019 6:51 PM

Maybe, perhaps: 

A GE steam turbine locomotive on a test run in 1938

Another advanced feature was dynamic brakes, where some (or most) braking is created by running the traction motors in reverse as generators, and then dissipating that electric power in resistors to produce heat. In this case, the heat was generated in the locomotive as opposed to the roof-top open-air coolers on most modern locomotives. The resistors were cooled by water from the steam loop, thus heating it. This allowed the braking energy to be recaptured into motive power, or as it is more typically known, offered regenerative braking.[6]

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 10:44 AM

A well-known railroad installed dynamic braking on part of some unusual locomotives for an unusual stated reason.  What was that reason, and the technical issues that led to the decision? 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 23, 2019 7:44 PM

Spruce

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, March 22, 2019 5:58 PM
 anyone who isn't Overmod might as well ask the next question. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, March 22, 2019 9:13 AM

The Signal Corps' "Spruce Production Division" opened operations in October 1917, with the goal of producing 30 million board feet of aircraft-quality spruce per month, a goal which was achieved in October 1918, just in time for the Armistice. Many of the crews were enlisted in the Army, and some even wore uniforms.

The four "permanent" and nine "temporary" railorads were operated either directly by the Signal Corps or by contracting logging firms.  The last of the lines, one of the "temporary" ones, operated as the non-common-carrier Toledo & Siletz in Oregon until December 1959.

 

https://oldphotoguy.com/p333085964/h12F3C992#h12f3c992

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 21, 2019 8:05 PM

rcdrye
The railroads were constructed to deliver a specific product for a specific purpose. What was the product, and what was its purpose?

Spruce, for all the myriad aircraft that were to be powered by the flaming-coffin Liberty V-12s and sweep the Hun from the skies.

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Posted by narig01 on Thursday, March 21, 2019 5:55 PM
Crazy wild guess, Troops from training camps to railhead(for on forwarding to ports) , and then troops to the trenches. Probably wrong but I was reading about some of the 600mm trench railways in France & Belgium during WWI.

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