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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, June 24, 2013 10:00 AM

rcdrye

D&RGW's Farmington Branch (from Durango) was built as standard guage and converted to narrow in about 1923.  It was apparently built to block SP and AT&SF interests from extending branches into the region, which has high plains ranching and was rich in coal deposits.  At least some of the branch lasted to the end of D&RGW narrow guage freight operations in 1970.

Wow, we have a near photo finish. Both rcdrye and daveklepper are correct but Rob is the winner since his answer was posted 20 minutes ahead of Dave's.

The Rio Grande at one time considered standard gauging the line from Antonito to Durango (and possibly on to Silverton) and went so far as to survey a new route that would have a more favorable ruling grade than the narrow gauge line from Chama to Cumbres Pass. They decided there wasn't enough revenue potential to justify the project which led to the decision to covert the Farmington Branch to narrow gauge. The discovery of oil in the Farmington area in the early 1950's resulted in a minor traffic boom and saved the Branch from an early demise. A considerable volume of pipe and drilling supplies was transported and crude oil was shipped to Alamosa where it was transloaded to standard gauge cars. One of the tank car companies even acquired 70 new narrow gauge cars to handle this traffic.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 24, 2013 6:28 AM

The Farmington Branch did last until the end of NG D&RGW freight operations.   The last few revenue trains carried pipe and other equipment for oil-wells.   The actual abandonment included the branch with the Durango - Chama line, with the two states, New Mexico and Colorado, taking possession of Chama - Antonito, and the D&RGW holding on to Antonito - Alamosa for a while longer.   However, the last revenue (as opoosed to clean-up trains) freight trains did operate several months ahead of those on the Durango - Alamosa line.

I felt  very fortunatte to ride the branch line twice, once in 1961 and once in 1962, on Maurey Kleibolt Chicago Railroad Club specials.  The second time in the office car William Jackaon Palmer.

And it was asked before, by you or someone else, and I answered  correctly the first time,

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, June 24, 2013 6:08 AM

D&RGW's Farmington Branch (from Durango) was built as standard guage and converted to narrow in about 1923.  It was apparently built to block SP and AT&SF interests from extending branches into the region, which has high plains ranching and was rich in coal deposits.  At least some of the branch lasted to the end of D&RGW narrow guage freight operations in 1970.

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Posted by narig01 on Monday, June 24, 2013 2:44 AM
I am mostly guessing from a vague memory on this.
Was it the Honolulu docks? I vaguely remember reading it was standard gauge then converted during WWII to narrow gauge to be compatible with the rest of the island railways.

As I said I don't think this is right.

Thx IGN
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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:47 PM

Mark, was this in Colorado?

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:07 AM

If this question has been asked before I apologize for the redundancy. Heck I may even have asked it as I remember thinking about it at one time.

Hundreds of rail lines that were built as narrow gauge were later converted to standard however I know of only one case where a standard gauge line was converted to narrow gauge. What was the railroad, the route and the year in which this reverse conversion too place? What was the reason for building the line as standard gauge in the first place and why was it later narrow gauged?

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, June 22, 2013 5:01 PM

Good to see you guys back.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, June 22, 2013 12:54 PM

KCSfan

The January 1910 OG shows the Seminole Ltd and a Corinth - Haleyville local as the only trains running on this line. I think the SL was inaugurated in November 1909 so the train you're looking for had to run prior to that time and since I don't have any OG's in that period I'll have to guess its name. Perhaps it was the Birmingham Ltd (or Special).

Mark

Mark,

Thats a very good guess because that's the train I was looking for - the Birmingham Limited.  The train was a Fulton-Birmingham run that handled St. Louis-Birmingham and Chicago-Jacksonville Pullmans.  The train began in late 1908, shortly after completion of the Birmingham line.  At the time, the IC was already handling St. Louis and Chicago to Jacksonville Pullmans through different routings, so I think the Birmingham Limited gave the IC experience in operating Florida services through their own lines via Birmingham, setting the stage for through train service in the form of the Seminole Limited in November 1909.  By the time the Seminole Limited was inaugurated, the Birmingham Limited was gone.

Mark, you get the next question.

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:05 AM

The January 1910 OG shows the Seminole Ltd and a Corinth - Haleyville local as the only trains running on this line. I think the SL was inaugurated in November 1909 so the train you're looking for had to run prior to that time and since I don't have any OG's in that period I'll have to guess its name. Perhaps it was the Birmingham Ltd (or Special).

Mark

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Friday, June 21, 2013 4:17 PM

Deggesty

I will guess the Floridan, though I know that was a winter season train in the thirties. In the 1912 and 1916 Guides  I have the Seminole Limited is the only through, named, train shown.

As you said, the Floridan came in after the Seminole Limited.  The train I'm looking for was short-lived, and frankly it gave the IC experience in running services to Birmingham, and eventually, beyond.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, June 21, 2013 3:44 PM

I will guess the Floridan, though I know that was a winter season train in the thirties. In the 1912 and 1916 Guides  I have the Seminole Limited is the only through, named, train shown.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Friday, June 21, 2013 3:11 PM

Next question...

In 1908, the IC completed its Birmingham Line through trackage rights and some new mileage.  What was the first named train that ran on this line?  (Hint - It was not the Seminole Limited).

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Posted by daveryan on Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:20 AM

the baltimore and ohio

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:09 AM

If ZO has a new question,  I defer to him, since he must also have known what I posted and thus had the more complete knowledge.

I await your question, ZO 

Comment:  The NS passenger timetable would not show the SAL thru cars, because they were not open to NS local passsengers, just t hose traveling from the North on the SAL.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:34 AM

ZephyrOverland

daveklepper

The train ran from New York to Southern Pines and Pinehurst for golfers, and ran over the PRR, RF&P, and SAL to Southern Pines, but the track from Southern Pines to Pinehurst was owned by either the Southern or a short line.  Someone else needs to supply the train's name.

The Carolina Golfer...

Norfolk Southern. The NS representation in the January, 1930, Guide shows that the cars were handled in the daily, except Sunday, Aberdeen-Asheboro train; on Sundays they were handled in a train that ran only between Aberdeen and Pinehurst. I wonder: was there a coach on the NS connection on Sunday? The NS made no mention of the SAL through cars.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:34 AM

The Carolina Golfer is correct. The fourth road was the original Norfolk Southern which carried the train just six miles between Aberdeen and Pinehurst. It sure is hard to stump you experts and as far as I'm concerned both DaveK and ZO are winners so whichever of you has a question handy go ahead and post it.

Mark

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:41 AM

daveklepper

The train ran from New York to Southern Pines and Pinehurst for golfers, and ran over the PRR, RF&P, and SAL to Southern Pines, but the track from Southern Pines to Pinehurst was owned by either the Southern or a short line.  Someone else needs to supply the train's name.

The Carolina Golfer...

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:27 AM

daveklepper

The train ran from New York to Southern Pines and Pinehurst for golfers, and ran over the PRR, RF&P, and SAL to Southern Pines, but the track from Southern Pines to Pinehurst was owned by either the Southern or a short line.  Someone else needs to supply the train's name.

I am impressed Dave. This train had a short life due to the Great Depression so I thought it might be harder to identify. The OG lists its consist as baggage car, diner and four Pinehurst/Southern Pines - NY sleepers. It's unusual to show a baggage car but I suppose it was listed to let the public know their golf clubs could be carried as checked baggage. The train didn't make a station stop at Raleigh but did pick up/drop off a Raleigh - NY sleeper at Johnson St. which was switched between there and the stub ended Raleigh Union Station. Let's see if someone can name the train and the fourth RR over which it ran.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:15 AM

The train ran from New York to Southern Pines and Pinehurst for golfers, and ran over the PRR, RF&P, and SAL to Southern Pines, but the track from Southern Pines to Pinehurst was owned by either the Southern or a short line.  Someone else needs to supply the train's name.

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:52 PM

In December 1930 an overnight, all Pullman train was inaugurated to accommodate the well heeled devotees of a certain sporting activity. The train ran over four different railroads from major cities to two relatively small towns that were famed as venues for the sport. What was the name of the train, the end points of its route and over what railroads did it run?

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:17 PM

You're both right, but KCSFan got there first.  I put up the question thinking of the N&W and VGN, and then realized that RDG/PRR came very close.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:38 AM

He is correct, and I would have gotten it if he had not been there first.

But note that if you had said passenger equipment instead of locomotives, then the PRR Philly suburban electrification and the Readings would qualify.   Eventually they did meet and are operated as one system by SEPTA today.  The Reading could be said to have similar steam locos to PRR as both relied heavily on Paciics.   But the Reading's 4-6-0's were camelbacks, but not the PRR's.

Await the KCSFan question

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:01 AM

Virginian / Norfolk & Western - The VGN became a part of the N&W in 1959 and of course both are today part of the NS.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 6:11 AM

There are are two pairs of railroads that match the statements below:

These two railroads served much of the same territory, had similar steam locomotives, and chose similar equipment to electrify some of their operations.  Their electrifications did not touch each other, but there was an electrical tie between them. In one case, one became part of the other, in the other both became part of the same railroad (after our -50 years window).

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 11, 2013 7:55 AM

I will agree you are the winner.   The tower spanned all four tracks on the masonry elevated structure at about 106th Street, and photos from the south end of the 125th St. station prior to 18 years ago should show it.  The switches are still there, and are useful expecially during times of track maintenance.  There used to be local stations at 110th St., 86th,, and 59th St.   59th was pretty much removed with throat expansion, 110th, elevated platforms both sides, was removed completely, and 86th, underground, can sill be seen. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 11, 2013 7:24 AM

I can't name the tower but it has to be on the approach to Grand Central between GCT and 125th st., probably in the Park Ave. tunnel.  Dates work out right - original GCT was around 1880.  Lexington Ave subway would have eliminated the need for local service.  Amtrak ran here until 1991.  Long distance trains that arrived or departed during rush hours often ran "wrong main" in NYC days.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:12 AM

For  a long time the ceenter two tracks were signalled bi-dirrecitonal, but not the outer two tracks.   I think this was done when the line was converted from double tracck to four-tracks.   (It was never single-track.)  Near or at the tower was a local station.   The development of local rapid transit made local service on this portion of the line unnecessary, and the station was removed about 90 years ago.  Elsewhere, the remains of a local station can be seen from trains on the easternmost and westernmost tracks, but not from tains on the two center tracks.   And for about 80 yeas all four four tracks are bidirectional.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 10, 2013 8:01 AM

There is only one owner and one operator (the same) today but Amtrak also did run here.   Not now though.  

Before the present owner there was one that essentially does not exist although the name is used for a specific purpose but not at this tower.   Before that owner, the owner and operator (besides Amtrak) was in bankruptcy.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:16 AM

One more hint.   passenger trains only plus occsaional work train, but no freight service for the past 125 years.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, June 6, 2013 6:55 AM

Controls a diverging route, separates the ex NYC-B&A from the ex NYNH&H  The two routes are on different tracks at Back Bay if my memory is correct concerning the new station, with three tracks for the ex-NYNH&H routes and one station track and one bypass for the B&A.   The old station, after construction of intown Mass Pike, had four for the NYNH&H and only one for the B&A, without a bypass track.   Before in-town Mass Pike, the B&A had three, with only one at the then unused side of the Back Bay platform.  B&A utilizing Trinity Place outbound and Huntington Avenue inbound, instead of Back Bay.

MY tower did not control a diverging route.   The four tracks north and the four tracks south are the same route.

But it is between two stations like Cove Tower, and in a way the situation is analogous.

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