New York had converted cable conduit and plows that could handle several contact levels. DC Transit's plows had just a single contact pair. DC's conduit was originally converted cable, but later rebuilt to power conduit.
IIt should be noted that when sleepers were added to the Silver Meteor, replacing the heavyweight all-Pullman Orange Blossom Special, in the post-WWII era, the sleepers were always at the front of the train, forward of thediner (two diners in the winter season) and coach passengers could use the observation-lounges. I think the formation than was baggage, baggage-dorm, Miami sleepers, Miami sleeper-lounge, St. Pete and Sarasota sleepers, diner, St. Pete and Sarasota coaches, St. Pete lounge0obs, diner, Miami coaches, Miami lounge-obs.
Two streetcar cities in the USA used conduit currrent collection (as well as overhead wire), New York City and Washington DC. Both cities had more than one streetcar company (and in DC an interurban as well), but there was standardization and joint use of tracks and conduit by more than one company. In addition, theoretically, New York cars could run perffectly well throughout the system in Washington, DC, but not the reverse. WHY?
Yes, Dave, you have it! I'm sorry that I cannot send you a cigar, but this internet thingy simply has not been developed to the point that it can handle material things. The original consist ran New York-Miami for one round trip and then New York-St. Pete for a round trip. In December, 1939, enough cars were delivered so that it was daily New York-Miami with through coaches and diner every third day New York-St. Pete. In 1940, the purchase of additional cars (including the flat-end observation cars) made it possible to have daily service, with lounge facilities, to St. Pete.
And, of course, when the train had through cars for both Miami and St. Pete, the train was split at Wildwood. Looking a SAL timetable of the period, the St. Pete cars are listed in the middle of the consist, which made the switching at Wildwood simple.
Johnny
To provide lounge-obervation car service on both the Miami and St. Peterberg :"legs" of the train south of Wildwood. North of Wildwood the blunt-end obs was a mid-train lounge, south of Wildwood, it was a rear car. I think the round-end went to and from Miami and the flat end to and from St. Pete, but am not sure.
Originally didn't the SM run just between NY and Miami, with the Tampa St. Pete section added a year or so later?
KCSfan The correct answers so far are: 1. Bridgeton & Harrison and Monson - There were no others. 2. D&RGW, EBT, ET&WNC, Tionesta Valley, C&S, SP and PRR (but the Waynesburg & Washington not the Lancaster Jonesville & Southern) - There were two others which haven't yet been mentioned: The Denver & Intermountain and the Arcata and Mad River. OG's show the A&MR as being both Std and 3 '- 9-1/4" gauge but I've not been able to find much info about its NG operations or confirm they were still running at the time. Dave has four correct answers but Johnny has five so I'll give him the win and the next question. Mark
The correct answers so far are:
1. Bridgeton & Harrison and Monson - There were no others.
2. D&RGW, EBT, ET&WNC, Tionesta Valley, C&S, SP and PRR (but the Waynesburg & Washington not the Lancaster Jonesville & Southern) - There were two others which haven't yet been mentioned: The Denver & Intermountain and the Arcata and Mad River. OG's show the A&MR as being both Std and 3 '- 9-1/4" gauge but I've not been able to find much info about its NG operations or confirm they were still running at the time.
Dave has four correct answers but Johnny has five so I'll give him the win and the next question.
Mark
For those of you stumped, intrigued, or nostalgic for the two footers, I recommend Linwood Moody's The Story of the Maine Two Footers....a classic from 1960 but has been reprinted, too. I just finished reading it and have to go back up there in late September or early October to do some sightseeing. Moody also talks in brief of other 2 footers in New England and elsewhere. Ebay has several copies listed....
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
The other two-footer was also in Maine, the Monson. The Colorado Southern also had three-foot and standard gauge, as did the Southern Pacific, possibly Pennsylavania's Lancaster Jonesville and Southern. Did the Uintah have a standard gauge yard and switcher to handle transshipping beetween its narrow gauge equipment and the connecting D&RGW standard gauge? What about the Rayonier?
And I did get to see abandoned ties on the abandnoned RofW of the Bridgeton and Harrison, which in its last days ran only south from Harrison to Saco Jc. on the Maine Central, the line north to Bridgeton having been abandoned earlier. But I canoed from Bridgeton to Harrison on Long Lake., summers 1948 and 1949.
Johnny it was my intent to limit this question to only US railroads and I should have stated that specifically.
1. The 2' Bridgeton & Harrison is correct. There was one other that was also a 2' line.
2. The D&RGW, East Broad Top, ET&WNC and Tionesta Valley are all correct. There were four others that had both standard and narrow gauge lines.
According to the November, 1939, Guide, the following railroads were narrow gauge (excluding 3 foot gauge)
American R.R. Co. of Porto Rico: 1 meter; Bridgeton & Harrison,:2'; Puerto Rico R.Rs.: 1 meter.
The Guide does not so indicate it, but the Denver & Rio Grande Western R.R. Co. operated both standard and 3' gauge track; East Broad Top R.R. &Coal Co.: 4' 8 ½'’ and 3'; East Tennessee & western North Carolina: 4' 8 ½'’ and 3'; Ferrocarile Unidos Y Yucatan: 4' 8 ½'’ and 3'; Parral & Durango R.R.: 4' 8 ½'’ and 3'; Tionesta Valley R.R.: 4' 8 ½'’ and 3'; United Railways of Havana: 2' 6", 4' 8 ½'’, and 3'
This is a two part question that refers only to narrow gauge common carrier lines that lasted until the 1940's or later; streetcar and/or transit lines excluded.
1. What railroads were, in whole or part, narrow gauge other than 3' gauge and what was the track gauge of each?
2. What railroads operated both standard and 3' gauge lines?
Happy wedding anniversary! And may you have many many more!
Apparently it was possible to get permission to ride the caboose Salida - Alamosa. Whether one was expected to buy a bus ticket is a good question. Nobody local here did it, but maybe you know somebody, and I would not know how to contact an old friend who did.
daveklepper I will be happy to have you as the winner to ask the next question. However, I did mean circle, and you included standard gauge to and from Denver. In 1939 it was still possible to travel Salida - Alamosa on a narrow gauge mixed train. The "valley line." Probably in a caboose. If I am wrong and this critical line was abandoned earlier, please correct me. 316 was a regular passenger train, not a mixed if I remember correcctly.
I will be happy to have you as the winner to ask the next question. However, I did mean circle, and you included standard gauge to and from Denver. In 1939 it was still possible to travel Salida - Alamosa on a narrow gauge mixed train. The "valley line." Probably in a caboose. If I am wrong and this critical line was abandoned earlier, please correct me. 316 was a regular passenger train, not a mixed if I remember correcctly.
Dave, I checked both a 1937 and 1941 OG and both issues show the Salida-Alamosa line (the "Alamosa Branch") still in operation but for freight service only. Passenger service was by Rio Grande Trailways bus and the daily bus schedule between the two points is shown in both OG's. This doesn't rule out the possibility that one could ride the line in a freight train caboose if permission was gained from the proper authority. I believe you are right about No. 316 as it is not shown as a mixed train in OG's of that time.
With respect to your next comment, No's 15 and 16 (Alamosa-Durango) are designated as the "Colorado-New Mexico Express" in the 1937 OG but are un-named in the 1941 issue so that name was dropped some time in the interim. I also checked a 1946 OG and no name is shown for 15 and 16 in that issue either. Apparently the trains did not gain a name again until 1951 when, if memory serves me correctly, the name San Juan Express or just San Juan was adopted.
Today's our 54th wedding anniversary and we have a busy day of activities planned so it may be tomorrow before I get a chance to post the next question.
I think 15 was also called the Colorado and New Mexico Express. 316 was called the Shavno (Sp?).
Await the next question.
KCSfan Salida - Denver: D&RGW (Std. Gauge) No.2 - coach
Salida - Denver: D&RGW (Std. Gauge) No.2 - coach
I need to make a correction to the above. No.2 was the Scenic Ltd and carried sleepers with both Drawing Rooms and Compartments.
I know the locomotives used on some of the trains and will hazard a guess as to the others.
No. 15, Denver-Alamosa: Pacific or possibly a Mountain type
San Juan, Alamosa-Durango: K-36 Mikado
Durango-Ridgeway: RGS Galloping Goose as mentioned previously
No. 319, Ridgeway-Montrose: Probably a K-27 (Mudhen) Mikado or possibly a K-36
No. 316, Montrose-Salida: K-36 Mikado
No.2, Salida-Denver: Probably a Northern but could have been a Mountain type
I have no idea as to the names of the hotels one might stay in.
daveklepper Right, I saw it. In 1939 it was still possible to travel "The Narrow Gauge Circle" in Colorado and New Mexico. Describe in detail the railroads involved, the trains with names and/or numbers and end-points-stations used, and what accomodation you would have if you wanted the best available. If you can name hotels in overnight stays, that would be a welcome extra, ditto locomotive and car types, etc. If you do not know whether a mixed train sat you in a combine or in a caboose, that is OK.
Right, I saw it. In 1939 it was still possible to travel "The Narrow Gauge Circle" in Colorado and New Mexico. Describe in detail the railroads involved, the trains with names and/or numbers and end-points-stations used, and what accomodation you would have if you wanted the best available. If you can name hotels in overnight stays, that would be a welcome extra, ditto locomotive and car types, etc. If you do not know whether a mixed train sat you in a combine or in a caboose, that is OK.
Dave, I'll take a stab at this one.
Denver - Alamosa: D&RGW (Std. Gauge) No. 15 - sleeper or coach
Alamosa - Durango: D&RGW (Narrow Gauge) San Juan (or possibly in 1939 it was still the Colorado-New Mexico Express) - coach or parlor/observation
Durango - Ridgeway: RGS (Narrow Gauge) "Galloping Goose"\
Ridgeway - Montrose: D&RGW (Narrow Gauge) No.319 - Mixed - combine
Montrose - Salida over Marshall Pass; D&RGW (Narrow Gauge ) No. 316 - combine or coach (this may been a mixed train)
IGN gave Dave credit for a correct answer but inadvertantly posted it on the other Quiz thread. That would make it your question, Dave.
I assume the illegality was lack of waiting rooms and/or restrooms for people of color.
IGN has it. Adeline St., is still wide enough for six tracks. Originally from west to east were the streetcar tracks of what later became East Bay Transit (Line 3 in later years), the IER (SP) Shattuck Avenue line, originally steam powered, and the Key System's F line. In 1941 the IER was abandoned, and Key took over the former IER Shattuck Avenue line on Adeline and Shattuck, abandoning its own in street trackage. The EBT streetcars hung on until 1947, Key System until 1958. BART returned rail transit to the area in the early 1970s.
Dave got the City and systems more or less right. IGN is free to ask a new question or defer to Dave.
iT IS THE WIDE STREET AT THE ODD ANGLE,, SINCE THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ONE DIRECTLY TO THE STATION, OR MAYBE I AM READING THE MAP WRONG. I CERTAINLY LOOK FORWARD TO IGN'S QUESTION. I ASSUME HE DOES HAVE THE FULL AND COMPLETE ANSWER.
So look at the map of Berkeley for a wide street at an odd angle...
Well, then, it must be Oakland or Berkely, where the Key System took over the SP's interurban electric routes in some cases, and reduced voltage in the existing catenary from 1200V dc to 600V dc. Possibly the Key System originally had seperate tracks for its interurban and local streetcar operations, so originallly there were Key local steetcar (possibly at one time a different company), Key interurban, and SP's Interurban Electric, with the new station belonging to BART and either elevated or subway. However, if it is a currently used passenger railroad station, then it may be Emeryville, but probably Beerkeley, since it does not seem like the layout at Oakland's Jack London Square. By railroad station do you mean the BART transit station. All in all my guess is Berkeley.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter