It may be a while before members come back, the site seems to be reliably up again, but it does take a while for the initial sign-on to complete.
Probably no one listening - the site was OOS for more thatn two weeks.
Similar product - "Ti-D Bowl". The name stuck even after the train became the "International".
This almost has to be the Blue Water/International, with the added city being Toronto, and part of the extended route being in the Canadian 'national system'.
I do not know the actual chemical Amtrak used for the toilet 'blue water' but would speculate that Diversey 'Super Blue' would fit the bill nicely.
Since nobody has touched this in a month (not surprising given the regular gateway timeouts)...
An Amtrak route started out in the 1970s as a state-supported train, was later upgraded to a through service to a major city (and part of the national system) before being cut back to its original end points. In the yards around Chicago, the train's original and current name led to an unfortunate nickname, one belonging to a sanitation product. Give both names used by the train over the years.
Overmod has the correct answer. SP leased and then sold 14 FP7s and 5 F7Bs to Amtrak. For the other trains operated over SP, the 10 SDP45s were "trip-leased" in 1971 and 1972, usually in pairs, occasionally with an FP7/F7B. In late 1972, ex-UP E units took over the Sunset Limited, releasing 3200 and 3205, which were rewired for San Francisco Peninsula "Commute" service. The conversion was successful enough that the arrival of Amtrak's first SDP40Fs allowed SP to retire its FM Trainmaster fleet in 1973, replacing it with the ten (8 from Amtrak service) SDP45s, three brand new GP40-P2s and a pair of boiler-equipped SD9s, along with the 11 dual-ended, boiler-equipped GP9s that had been there all along. All of the SDP45s remained in SP paint.
The FP7s (which eventually got repainted after getting a silver patch with their new numbers) were among the last F units employed by Amtrak, serving on pre-HEP trains like the new San Joaquin and on special trains. The SDP45s remained in Commute service until CalTrain's F40s took over in the 1980s, after which they went to the freight pool. Most if not all of them survived until the UP merger, but they were retired not long after.
A pair of SDP45s on the non-Seattle "short train" Daylights in 1971 and 1972 could get the 11 car train up to about 45 MPH in its own length. The FP7s were no slouches, frequently handling the 10-11 car pre-Zephyr "City of San Francisco" in A-B-A sets.
I'm not up on post Second Generation diesel types, but I do recall the incidents as deals between Amtrak and AT&SF, with the eight (possibly re-geared) ending in freight sevice, This might be just as hint for the reader to answer the question fully, assuming this 92-year-olds's memory is correct.
Those 8 wouldn't have been SDP45s, would they?
There were B-units involved (5 of the 19), but the leased units were bigger.
FL9s replacing ex-CUT P-motors?
(Second guess, something to do with F3Bs)
Replacement question: Amtrak leased and then bought many used passenger servicew locomotives from various railroads during the period 1971-1973. One railroad sold 19 passenger locomotives to Amtrak in 1972, with Amtrak leasing 8 more until late 1973, after which the railroad put the locomotives to its own use, replacing a rare group. Name the railroad and describe the group of 8. Bragging rights for naming the locomotives they replaced.
I'm going to close this one out and post a new question later today.
Amtrak received 36 kitchen cars and 46 hospital cars from the US Army in 1973. All were built by St. Louis Car for Korean War use, to replace the World War II hospital cars. They were never used by the Army, but were storeed serviceable and moved regularly during their storage, so it took very little work to put them into service.
The kitchen cars were basically short (~60') baggage cars. They were placed into baggage service, some in Army green, some repainted. A group of them were later rebuilt as HEP power cars for Amfleet trains, allowing the continued use of GG1s while Amtrak figured out what to do with E60s. Some of them were used in Metroliner service prior to the arrival of the AEM7s.
Most of the other cars were 85' cars with side doors on one end and bunks lalong the car walls. Placed into service in many cases without repainting, the served as baggage-dormitory cars. Some of them were later rebuilt as straight baggage cars.
Ten of the hospital cars were rebuilt as pub-lounges. Three were "Le Pub" cars assigned to the Montrealer/Washingtonian, complete with a piano. Others were assigned to the Broadway Limited and other trains. A few of the cars got extra ventilation and panels to enclose the lounge area, where smoking was still allowed in those days.
Some of the baggage-dorms and at least two of the pub-lounges were converted with HEP for continued service in the late 1970s/early 1980s. All were retired or assigned to MOW service.
The first group of former Army hospital car equipment were built for food service, the last group ended up in food service, several of them with an international theme.
If it's any help all of the first group were cars of one type, the second an thirs groups were all buit from cars of a different type.
My first encounter with a baggage-dorm was on the "Inter-American" from St. Louis to Dallas in 1974. The car was still in its original paint with an Amtrak car number stencilled on the side.
daveklepperMy take is that Overmod is up for the next question. Agreed?
Only one-third of the question has actually been answered, and that was self-evident from a hint that was given, not from actual 'knowledge'. My guess about train heat was solidly wrong.
We're perhaps a looooooong way from answering all 3/3 of the question!
My take is that Overmod is up for the next question. Agreed?
Using your categories, the 10 cars in category 1 were rebuilt for non-revenue passenger use. The category 2 use as crew dorms is correct, practically no mods at all. Some of those were later rebuilt as straight baggage cars. Amtrak had a bunch of ex-GN and ex-NP boiler cars, so, no boilers. Some of the "Category 3" group WERE converted to HEP generator cars (some even used in Metroliner service, with GG1s), but the initial conversion was for a much simpler purpose.
Several of the "category 1" cars were specially outfitted for international service.
Without carefully finding Amtrak historical data, category 2 sounds like crew dorms with space for train crew to do their business without occupying passenger lounge space, and category 3 is steam-heat cars for locomotives without adequate on-board steam-generation capability. I'd have thought there might be HEP generator cars involved but the 'hint' appears to rule that out.
Category 1 would be some kind of baggage accommodation, but I did not know there was any functional 'shortage' of better baggage cars from 'contributing' roads. (I don't consider Amtrak Package Express a 'passenger amenity' )
While all of the conversions in the 1970s were "non-revenue" (that is, no seats were sold), one of the three conversions was for a passenger amenity (about 10 cars), one to release revenue space for passengers (about 30 cars) and the third for passenger train operation support (about 36 cars). Some of the last group were converted a second time to support Metroliner and other services.
The MOW conversions came later, after the former hospital cars were removed from service when eastern long distance trains were converted from steam heat to HEP.
Plenty of WWII-era troop carrying and hospital equipment went into pre-Amtrak service, for both passenger and express service. The Korean war era cars were only of two types, and did not include any equipment converted by Amtrak for express service.
I thought the contribution of 'express cars' (that might have come directly from this source to Amtrak service) was limited to the trucks, to be used under one of the runs of "MHC" carbodies and perhaps those reefers, and that the trucks were said to have come from "REA cars" and not directly from a Government car sale to Amtrak. These might have been the trucks that exhibited bad equalizers...
Hospital cars and troop sleepers converted into material-handling cars for occasional baggage sevice, but mostly for the short-lived parcel delivery servicem a sort of revival of Railway Express service. A few ended their careers as part of NEC work-trains and wire trains.
As the GSA cleaned house of Korean-war era railroad equipment in storage during 1973, some of it ended up in Amtrak service in three very different configurations. I'll accept any two of the configurations, and the original equipment type for each.
Thanks, and hope you can ask a question,.
The Manhattal Elevated, then IRT steam storage yard at about 132nd Street, between Willis and Third Afvenues, in The Bronx:
Manhaatn Elevated Forney:
The Manhattan Elevated Railroad, an amalgamation of the various El companies in New York, began the process of selling off its large stable of 0-4-4T Forneys in 1901. Some went to a dealer, some were sold directly by Manhattan Elevated or successor Interborough Rapid Transit. They ended up in a wide variety of industrial, forestry and other services where a small locomotive was an advantage. Info on the storage yard can be found in some of Dave Klepper's posts over the last few years.
In Chicago, two of the four L companies opened service with steam locomotives. The Chicago & South Side had 45 Baldwin-built steam locomotives. It was the only one of Chicago's "L"s to use steam in the Loop. After reorganization as the South Side Rapid Transit(.), it was converted to electric MU operation, the first electric railway to do so. The first 20 Forney's were shipped in a solid train, led by a Baldwin-owned locomotive later exhibited at the World's Columbian Exposition.
The Lake Street Elevated Railroad had 36 Rhode Island Forneys. Lake Street converted to electric operation in 1896, at first with "Locomotive cars", later with MU cars.
A specific rail operatio ran with about 120 steam locomltives, Electrification was accamplished 1901-1903. The steam locomotives were sold off in small lots, one-to five for one buyer, This process tiik time, and a special yard was built for their storage, The last two were sold in 1942.
Name the railroad, As a bonus, give further detailsd and name similar electrifications and steam-power sales.
George W. Hilton's monumental "The Cable Car in America" lists these systems in St. Louis:
St. Louis Cable & Western (side grip) 1887-1891
St.L.C.&W. had a steam dummy operation on (most likely) 3 foot gauge that extended west from the cable line's end.
Citizen's Railway (bottom grip) 1887-1894
Missouri Railroad (side grip) 1888-1901
Peoples Railway (side grip) 1890-1901
St. Louis Railroad (bottom grip) 1890-1900
All but the last were east-west systems. St. Louis had a lot of cable mileage, maybe fourth behind San Francisco, Chicago and Kansas City.
The sixth system, the Western Cable Railway was a finite cable system used from 1891 to 1921 belonging to Lemp's Western Brewery, which crossed the St. Louis Railroad. Technically a common carrier railroad, it was used to move boxcars from a St. Louis Iron Mountain & Southern connection, not for passengers. It was the only St. Louis cable railway NOT built to 4'10" gauge.
Frankly I had no idea there were SIX cable systems in St. Louis, and I only know that much via a throwaway line in the Wikipedia article. Can you give some details on these?
Also mentioned was the first 'steam' traction service that had a gauge different from everybody else's at the time. There has to be a story behind that.
Someone needs to write about the ongoing follies with United Railways and the burglary and theft of the reform petition...
Correct. Like many streetcar systems with odd gauges, St. Louis stuck with its non-standard untile the end of rail operations in 1966. Some of the PCCs went to San Francisco's Muni, first by lease, then later sale. At least one of those has been preserved.Fortunately for Muni, PCC trucks are relatively easy to re-gauge.
Ohio gauge as I remember it was 4'10", not 4'9". The 'compromise wheels' had wider treads with the flanges at 4'8.5" spacing, similar to how the Russian Decapods were converted, but the centering action on Ohio-gauge track could be insufficient. See the description of the Angola Horror for one example.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter