My point was that NYS&W didn't own the buses and didn't employ the drivers. The ticketing reflected the fact that no additional pickup stops were made and the service was an extension of rail fare.
The other two stations did not provide service 'free to ticketholders'; they charged the highly interesting price of 91 cents -- guess why -- and at least in the late Fifties made a point of noting in the timetables that checked baggage would NOT be handled on the motorcoaches. Points to someone who knows where any checked baggage would go for pickup later...
I remembered the tickets, not the label on the sides of the buses. They may also have haf a different colior scheme than most PSofNJ buses, a color scheme like that of the Suzie-Q's ACF self-propelled cars.
NYS&W did use Public Service buses, but they were used for NYS&W (and Erie) passengers, using NYS&W tickets.
They weren't NYS&W buses -- I think, and Wayne can check this, that they were Public Service.
The Susquehanna was run by the Erie when Kidde got the Transfer running, and the Northern Branch ran right by North Bergen, so it was a 'natural' for both operations to take advantage of the connection. I have seen a 1959 Northern Branch schedule that shows the period that the buses ran into the Port Authority terminal (so indicated in the timetable as a 'stop') and interestingly one of the six trains did not stop there.
Why the Transfer wasn't a big thing after the Erie quit Pavonia is another matter. Getting into Hoboken was a grand rigmarole of backing and hitching that added a considerable time to the trip, which might have made the 'shortcut' to midtown more attractive... BUT...
even in the late Fifties the grand rivalry between the Public Service and Red and Tan buses was on, which had something like 20-minute headways EACH along much of the Northern Branch route and went straight into the Port Authority terminal without a change. Stilwells towed by RS2s and 3s wasn't much competition for that.
But what are the other two stations with bus connections to name trains?
Erie patrons on the NY & NJ (which passed Susquehanna Transfer) were allowed to use NYS&W busses. I don't think Erie ever ran its own.
Overmod, I never heard of the Erie itself having connection buses to Manhattan, and you weill have to provide more specific information. I pointed out that the Suzie-Q did provide buses for its passengers from the Erie J. C. terminsal before WWII (RC followed on this.), and possibly Erie passengers somehow were accomodated. Two Erie name trains were the Erie Limited and the Atlantic Limited.
After WWII, when the NYSq&W buses began using the Lincoln Tunnel to the new Port Authority Bus Terminal, the transfer point was established on the main line, not to Erie tracks used by the NYSq&W, but I just do not know the remember the name of that location. I also that, before that change, there were times or specific schedules that the buses used the Holland Tunnel, not always the Erie ferries, to the Dixie Hotel Terminal.
Possibly the deal that was not in effect all the time when i used the Erie ferries myself was that SuzieQ let Erie out passengers on its buses in return for having the buses ride the ferries?
When I rode the Erie, I used the ferries or the H&M (now PATH). And again, a a teenage and younger NYCity-area railfan, I knew only of the B&O and the SuzieQ as having buses to Manhattan, with the B&O also to Brooklyn.
The hotel-basement bus terminal had a bus turntable. It was small compared to the huge Port Authority facility.
daveklepperOvermod: B&O buses did not use the Holland Tunnel but were carried on the CofNJ ferries, except on the very rare occasions when the Hudson was frozen.
I was working on the assumption that the name trains were on the 'Erie' (meaning the Northern Branch) rather than the Erie-controlled Suskie.
But there are still two other stations and their routes (and name trains served) to be cited. Truthfully, it won't be difficult to document them...
Actually I had a hard time finding any info abuou the busses. There was a period when busses ran from the Erie's Jersey City station/ferry terminal.
RC probably knows more than I do, and might be able to define the other bus-rail transfer points. If he wishes, I defer to him as winner to ask the nest question, otherweise, I'll try to do my best. Thanks.
The name trains were the Noontimer and the Matinee Special. Both were part of a program promoting non-rush hour travel on the NYS&W.
NY Sussquanna & Western had bus connections to Manhattan at various times, with only one NJ transfer point at a particular tine, but at least two and possibly three in its history. The Erie Terminal was one, possibly Edgewater another. Two Manhattan Terminals were the Dixie Hotel basement bus terminal, and later the Port Authority Bus Terminal. Prewar WWII buses used the Erie Ferry and the Holland Tunnel. Post WWII, the Lincoln Tunnel.
Overmod: B&O buses did not use the Holland Tunnel but were carried on the CofNJ ferries, except on the very rare occasions when the Hudson was frozen.
Another railroad featured connecting dedicated bus service into Manhattan, from not one but three stations at various times. Name them, and at least one of the connecting name trains that featured the service in each case.
Extra points for the years active, and the routes the buses followed.
(Two of these are easy; the third perhaps not so much, particularly with respect to its two name trains...)
My 8th-grade trip-to-Washington used the Columbus Circle Station.
B&O's 1948 OG listing shows 5 routes with a claim of 13 possible stops. The map shows 16, because three of them are all served by the Grand Central Station stop, and two of the hotels are across the street from each other.
Columbus Circle Station
Hotel Lincoln (45th and 8th)
Hotel New Yorker (34th and 8th)
Hotel Victoria (51st and 7th)
Hotel Taft (51st and 7th)
Pennsylvania Hotel (33rd and 7th, across the street from Penn Station)
Governor Clinton Hotel (29th and 7th)
McAlpin Hotel (34th and Broadway)
Rockefeller Center Station (49th St)
Grand Central Terminal
Hotel Commodore (42nd and Park)
42nd St Station
Vanderbilt Hotel (33rd and Park (4th))
Wanamakers (9th and Lafayette)
Liberty Street Station
Brooklyn Station (Eagle Bldg.)
daveklepperThe B&O had all its "Royal Blue" Washington - Jersey City (trackside bus connection to Manhattan, 2 [or 3?] locations, and Brooklyn, 1), long before the PRR Washington-NY, which did it mostly post-WWII.
I could never really understand why 'checked baggage' through the Holland Tunnel right to your hotel wasn't an advantage over a one-seat ride to the bowels of Penn Station somewhere. Of course I was only a year old when the party stopped. I will say they missed the boat somewhat by not having more amenities on the buses to extend the 'experience' on the train -- this wasn't the same operating model as the NYW&B's use of last-mile 'transit'.
I think Pullman was actually first, diners possibly as well as sleepers, but C&O had the first all-air-conditioned train, coaches and slerepers, the George Washington, even beforr Pullman had air-conditioned a majority of its sleepers. And the C&O then continued for the other two named trains, the Sportsman, anf the Fast Flying Virginian.
The B&O had all its "Royal Blue" Washington - Jersey City (trackside bus cionnection to Manhattan, 2 [or 3?] locations, and Brooklyn, 1), long before the PRR Washington-NY, which did it mostly post-WWII.
If I remember correctly, 1931 on C&O was the FIRST ice-activated air conditioning offered on regular railroad passenger cars (and that date might reflect testing for the George Washington train).
in brief, Washington was a surveyor for a canal company, that did not do well against early railroads but had a cracking good 'low-grade' routing (along rivers) when that came to be a desirable consideration in the late 1880s. I will put together more detail when I have time.
Correct. Can you spare readers the nead to look up the reference and present a summary? And ask the nest question.
I had a hint prepared, one of the C&O's named trains. A very early application of air-conditioning and reclining seats in coaches. (Which had six-wheel trucks).
Would this be Chesapeake and Ohio with 'George Washington's Railroad'?
Had to do with surveying. (See 'Richmond & Alleghany' low-grade line...)
(And, by 1890, probably desire to one-up the B&O...)
And one Alco RS-3 (Ambassador to GCT)
One railroad, Class I, USA. advertised itself as the railroad of a specific Presidernt. But that President neither saw nor rode nor invested in that railroad. (But most-likely, his life-after-death Spirit......) Explain, please, in addition to naming the railroad and the President.
Got 'em all. The E8s were all U.S. built (like many CP units assigned to the Vermont lines and the International of Maine.
The line crossed into Quebec just north of Troy VT, then dropped back acoss the border to serve Richford VT. The line west of Newport is owned by CPKC today.
Most of B&M's E7s and the E8 were sold to other railroads in the early 1960s. The Conn River Line finished with F7s and GP9s.
CP E-8s also ran Montreal - New Brunzwick, crossing the border twice,
Well, then you must be referring to the USA-Canadian border, and althogh I rode both the Alouette, the day train, and the Red Wing (at times combined with The New-Englander betwee Concord and Boston), the night train, I did not know or did not remermber that the border was crossed three times, not just once. B&M received just one E-8, the last of an order for E-7s. The CP got three E-8s. All four were in pool service, runnig through as the Pacifics did, on the two above CP-B&M trains, Montreal - Boston. (The New Englander was the CN-B&M Montreal - Boston train,), The B&M E-8 was kept on the two trains, while the CP's frequently saw Montreal - Toronto service.
When the Red Wing was discontinued and the Alouette went to B&M and CP RDCs MUed together, the CP's were moved to Toronto - Detroit service, B&M's last stand for E-7s and the E-8 was Springfield - White River Junction on the Montreallar-Washingtonian.
daveklepper One border? Between states or oprovinces or countries?
One border? Between states or oprovinces or countries?
Two railroads bought four passenger locomotives to power two trains, a day train and a night train that followed a slightly differnt route. Both trains crossed the border three times before reaching their final destinations. After the trains were discontinued, at least as locomotive-hauled trains, some of the locomotives were assigned to a train that crossed the border twice between its endpoints.
Railroads and locomotive types, and of course train names.
rcdrye Way over-thinking this. New Haven's ex-Virginian rectifiers and Milwaukee's freight Little Joes are EF-4 class on their respective railroads.
Way over-thinking this. New Haven's ex-Virginian rectifiers and Milwaukee's freight Little Joes are EF-4 class on their respective railroads.
Didn't know that the cex-Virginian rectifiers took numbrers that had been used by bthe EP-2, which had been a scrapped when the EMD FL-9s arrived. However, the rlevent EP-2s did have a zero in front, 0300. 0301, etc.
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