narig01 One that didn't have to deal with the ICC? LOL Thx IGN
One that didn't have to deal with the ICC?
LOL
Thx IGN
But maybe the FCC?
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Or was this D W Brosnan 's idea?
Rgds IGN
What railroad advertised on its dining car menus such delectable entrees as Pork Barrel stuffed with Republican with Apple in Mouth, Drawn and Quartered Democrat Roasted in own Jacket, Brea*t of Chicken on Television, Brea*t of Peasant stuffed with Russian Propaganda, and Lame Duck stuffed with long green and Perle Mesta?
Johnny
Johny you got it. I was hoping at least a day. Oh well.
Even today the Ames brothers are associated with the worst of the Credit Mobilisier. I'd been reading Maury Klein's books on UP(volumes 1 and 3).
It is an interesting read. Mr Klein's read on it is their was a lot of confusion going on, and some may have capitalized on it.
Ian, you make me think of the monument to the Ames brothers, Oakes and Oliver, who financed, at a great profit to themselves (the Credit Mobilier scandal), the construction of the Union Pacific. The monument was erected near the original line up Sherman Hill, on a plot of land the erectors believed to belong to the UP.
However, the surveyors who determined where it should be erected erred, and it was erected on a plot that still belonged to the United States. A man named Bill Murphy discovered the error, bought the land, and offered to rent three surfaces of the monument to concerns who would pay him handsomely for the advertising space. Had he beem resolute in his plan, he could have retired with a handsome income he calculated to be about $100,000 a year. When officials of the UP learned of Mr. Murphy's plan, they were distraught, and quickly sent representatives to meet with Mr. Murphy--and the represetaatives representatives frightened him so that he accepted two lots of railroad land in Laramie which were valued at $300 in exchange for the plot of land he had bought. The attorney from Omaha had $15,000 in cash with him, and he had the authority to write a check for $30,000 if Mr. Murphy held out to that extent. Mr. Murphy was soundly castigated by his silent partner, the county surveyor in Laramie, who had verified that the monument had, indeed, been erected on government land.
Reference: A Treasuryof Railroad Folklore, pp. 356-360. The book is, indeed, a treasure which I have owned for perhaps sixty years; I am not certain that I bought it soon after it was published, but I know that I had to scrape the money together to buy it.
A new question:
To paraphrase from a book :
"This monument sits like an ancient ruin atop a deserted area of wilderness in xxxx, Its granite cubes weathered and smoothed by over a hundred years of fierce storms and raging winds. On every side of the 65 ft pyramid the view is spectacular. To the south the broad tableland of xxxx Pass rolls gradually toward the distant xxxx Range. . . .”This monument is to some financiers. Even 100 years past their death they are looked upon with infamy. The monument is on the National Register of Historic Places. The nearby town is gone, the railroad thru the town has been abandoned.Where is this monument, to whom is it dedicated, and what company built it.Thx IGN
Do we have a question?
You've nailed it and the next question is yours to ask.
Mark
The Monon streamlined its operations with a group of ex-U.S. Army hospital cars built by American Car & Foundry, rebuilt at its Lafayette, Ind., shops. It was during John W. Barriger's presidency when the relatively obscure Monon took on a high profile. He also had a boxcar numbered "1." Cars and passenger units were the red and gray of Indiana University, but freight units got Purdue's black and gold. The road later standardized on black and gold. Last passenger train discontinued Sept. 30, 1967, but Amtrak's Floridian later used part of the ex-Monon, as does the Cardinal/Hoosier State.
Either to economize or because the car builders has such large backlogs following WW2 what railroad streamlined all its passenger trains with cars rebuilt in its own shops? What type of cars did they rebuild?
KCSfan The Varsity - Chicago-Bloomington - Monon The Varsity - Chicago-Madison - Milwaukee Road Mark
The Varsity - Chicago-Bloomington - Monon
The Varsity - Chicago-Madison - Milwaukee Road
Mark, you got them. The next question is yours.
daveklepper and henry6,
Good possibilities but not what I was looking for. The name I am looking for does not tie in with a specific school.
What about The Laker
Soo Line train. but also used at one time by either the Milwauke or the C&NW and even the North Shore
Lakers, UofWisc. team?
The New York Central - Michigan Central had the Wolverine, named for the team of UofM, Ann Arbor, which at different times was a Chicago - Detroit trains and at more recent times a Chicago - New York train via Detroit. But the interurban that conencted Detroit, through Dearborn to Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo also had an express named the Wolveerine.
I can think of Corn Husker and Buckeye but I bet there are more....,
New question.....
You would have to take this train to get to your alma mater's home football games. It would be nice if someone can name the two trains that shared this name.
If you get one, that's fine, but the winner will be one who gets both of them or gets the second one after the first one is named.
Myron
Mark, thanks for the correction as to the original route of the Dixieland. I could have checked it myself, perhaps, since I have unpacked my copy of the November, 1937, Guide--which may have it in the preview of the upcoming winter season.
As to the speed maintained by the mixed train on the branch, I do not believe that such operation is astounding to many of who are familiar with the operation of trains before the imposition of speed limits by the ICC (which I, personally, have known to be ignored) and even after until some time in the last 30 years or so when the railroads themselves began cracking down on fast running. When the engineers trusted the roadbed and knew the topography, they were willing to run as fast as necessary to make the schedule and to get home on time.
On another thread, I commented on the light movement of a crippled N&W J (the left side valve gear had been destroyed) from Bristol to Roanoke in the fifties, during which the engineer ran it at 90 mph for a short distance (ABS only). Another contributor had difficulty understanding that the engine crew (and the Bristol roundhouse foreman, who was also on board) were not punished for their flouting the ICC ruling; he thought that a tape from the speed recorder would have been submitted to the ICC. The movement even met a passenger train (the same schedule on which the valve gear had disintegrated), taking a siding with the right slope to it so there would be no difficulty in restarting after coming to a stop for the meet. The engineer on the passenger train was the father of the engineer who ran the J to Roanoke.
"Actually in 1921 the Dixie Flyer ran over the Atlanta Birmingham and Atlantic between Macon and Tipton." Johnny I don't know where my brain was when I wrote that sentence because I knew full well the routes of both the AB&C and the GS&F. Thanks for correcting my mistake.
Deggesty Mark, you asked for it! The GS&F ran from Macon, through Tifton and Valdosta to Jacksonville, with a line from Valdosta to Palatka (used by the Nashville-Jacksonville trains, connecting with the FC&P in Lake City [A little while ago, I found that I did have my railroad atlases were unpacked]. The AB&A/C did not go through Macon, but through Manchester and Fitzgerald to Waycross, where it connected with the Plant System (later, ACL), and then on to Brunswick. In 1951 (I think this is the right year), the Dixie Flyer was switched from the CG/ACL route to the AB&C line, which the Dixie Flagler had always used. I do not know about the Dixieland's route,but I think that it used the CG/ACL route originally; please correct me if I am mistaken. I wonder if any other train had as many variations in its routing as the Dixie Flyer did. Incidentally, the Florida Sunbeam also used the GS&F (by then, this road was definitely in the Southern fold) between Macon and Hampton, Florida, where the SAL took it on to St. Petersburg and Miami.
Mark, you asked for it! The GS&F ran from Macon, through Tifton and Valdosta to Jacksonville, with a line from Valdosta to Palatka (used by the Nashville-Jacksonville trains, connecting with the FC&P in Lake City [A little while ago, I found that I did have my railroad atlases were unpacked]. The AB&A/C did not go through Macon, but through Manchester and Fitzgerald to Waycross, where it connected with the Plant System (later, ACL), and then on to Brunswick. In 1951 (I think this is the right year), the Dixie Flyer was switched from the CG/ACL route to the AB&C line, which the Dixie Flagler had always used. I do not know about the Dixieland's route,but I think that it used the CG/ACL route originally; please correct me if I am mistaken. I wonder if any other train had as many variations in its routing as the Dixie Flyer did.
Incidentally, the Florida Sunbeam also used the GS&F (by then, this road was definitely in the Southern fold) between Macon and Hampton, Florida, where the SAL took it on to St. Petersburg and Miami.
You are correct on all points except for the route of the Dixieland which never ran on the CofG but always ran over the AB&C line between Atlanta and Waycross. In fact the Dixieland is the "featured" train, complete with a map of its entire route, in the AB&C representation in the March 1937 OG.
The Sunbeam ran over the GS&F mainline between Atlanta and Valdosta and the Palatka branch between Valdosta and Hampton. I suspect that bypassing Jacksonville saved at least an hour of run time. The Palatka branch was unsignalled and laid with no more than 90 lb. lightly ballasted rail. I have written elsewhere about riding in the family car somewhere in north Florida in the early 1940's and being overtaken by the Palatka - Valdosta mixed train which was doing at least 70mph behind a green and gold ten wheeler. I expect the Sunbeam often ran that fast between Valdosta and Hampton on that branchline.
KCSfan That's what I get for not checking train names before attempting to answer a question. I think the Dixieland was not inaugurated until the winter of 1936-37 IIRC. Actually in 1921 the Dixie Flyer ran over the Atlanta Birmingham and Atlantic between Macon and Tipton. The AB&A was reorganized in 1926 to become the AB&C which name lasted until 1946 when it was bought by the ACL and became a part of that road's Western Division. Sometime after 1921 (probably in the late 1920's or early '30's) the Dixie Flyer wasr re-routed to run over the CofG between Atlanta and Albany via Macon. I believe this was the route of both the Flyer and the Dixie Ltd. until their discontinuance. On the other hand the Dixieland and Dixie Flagler always ran over the AB&C/ACL between Atlanta and Waycross. Someone jump in and correct me if I am wrong about any of these routes and dates. Mark
That's what I get for not checking train names before attempting to answer a question. I think the Dixieland was not inaugurated until the winter of 1936-37 IIRC. Actually in 1921 the Dixie Flyer ran over the Atlanta Birmingham and Atlantic between Macon and Tipton. The AB&A was reorganized in 1926 to become the AB&C which name lasted until 1946 when it was bought by the ACL and became a part of that road's Western Division.
Sometime after 1921 (probably in the late 1920's or early '30's) the Dixie Flyer wasr re-routed to run over the CofG between Atlanta and Albany via Macon. I believe this was the route of both the Flyer and the Dixie Ltd. until their discontinuance. On the other hand the Dixieland and Dixie Flagler always ran over the AB&C/ACL between Atlanta and Waycross. Someone jump in and correct me if I am wrong about any of these routes and dates.
Dave, you were in the neighborhood. In 1917, the GS&F was not in the Southern fold; I do not know just when it came in, but it probably was not long before the 1921 TT I have was printed, and the CG and ACL had not yet worked the re-routing out.
Rob, you made a good try, but ZO got it right.
Mark, correct routing, but wrong train.
Incidentally, in 1896, the GS&F carried the Dixie Line trains to Florida between Macon and a connection (I think it was Lake City; almost all of my RR books are still packed--I moved three days ago) with the Florida Central and Peninsular (SAL predecessor), and the FC&P carried the trains on in to Jacksonville; this left the Plant System in the cold for these trains. We who became familiar with the routings of the fifties have found some surprisingly different routings existing in earlier years--such as the St. Louis cars for the Dixie Flyer were, about 100 years ago, carried by the IC between St. Louis and Martin, Tennessee, and the NC&StL carried them south of there.
So, ZO, you again have the problem of amusing us with a new question.
I agree with ZO that the names and consists of any Dixie line trains would not be shown in SR timetables because the were competitors with the SR's own Royal Palm and Ponce De Leon.
In later years the Dixie trains between Chicago and Florida ran on the AB&C between Atlanta and Waycross and on to Jacksonville over the ACL. I'm guessing that in 1921 the ACL had not yet formed its alliance with the AB&C and the train you're looking for was the Dixieland. If that's correct it's overall route would have been: C&EI between Chicago and Evansville, L&N between Evansville and Nashville, NC&StL between Nashville and Atlanta, CofG between Atlanta and Macon, SR (GS&F) between Macon and Tifton, and ACL between Tifton and Jacksonville. The Dixieland carried through sleepers between Chicago and the Florida cities of Jacksonville, Miami, St. Petersburg, and possibly at the time also Tampa and Sarasota.
Deggesty A 1921 Southern passenger timetable shows trains 95 & 94 running between Macon and Tifton, Georgia. There is no description of the trains, despite their being through passenger trains between two large cities, complete with Pullmans. Name the train, and its overall route, complete with the other roads that carried it. If you can, explain why the Southern had no description of the train. Hint: the 1917 timetables did not even show this line.
A 1921 Southern passenger timetable shows trains 95 & 94 running between Macon and Tifton, Georgia. There is no description of the trains, despite their being through passenger trains between two large cities, complete with Pullmans. Name the train, and its overall route, complete with the other roads that carried it. If you can, explain why the Southern had no description of the train. Hint: the 1917 timetables did not even show this line.
I believe #94 and 95 are the numbers for the C&EI/L&N/NCStL/CoG/GS&F/ACL Chicago-Jacksonville Dixie Flyer, and during that time the train ran via the Central of Georgia Atlanta-Macon and then SR subsidiary Georgia Southern & Florida between Macon and Tifton, where the train was turned over to the ACL for the run to Jacksonville. In 1922 the Flyer was rerouted via Central of Georgia between Atlanta and Albany, where the train was turned over to ACL for the balance of the run. The CoG/GS&F routing was more direct as compared to the all CoG routing.
I believe the Dixie Flyer was not mentioned in the SR TT for competitive reasons.
Based on where the cities are it looks like an Atlanta-Jacksonville segment of a Cincinnati-Miami train - The Royal Palm? which would make the participating carriers NYC(/Big Four), Southern and FEC. Is the segment part of the AB&C which later wound up in the ACL camp?
I don't have access to OGs or tiimetables...but I would guess that the train really belonged to one of Southern's competitors using trackage rights, probabllllly SAL but possiblly ACL, and other railroaads that might have been involved include the L&N. IC; KCS, C&EI, PRR, NYC.
Johnny...that sounds like you get the next question. I still have an ash tray from the TR given to me by the Santa Fe steward.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter