Since I worked this off your hint I can't claim credit but the original name was Bellingham Bay and British Columbia. The connection at Sumas was with the Canadian Pacific. What little was left is operated by BN for local industrial access.
Hello everyone,
Sorry I was unable to answer for so long.
A hint: the Milwaukee Road was new on the West Coast, and wished to purchase local lines to increase traffic. The railroad in question was purchased in 1912, and name changed to the Bellingham and Northern. It was fully absorbed into the Milwaukee in 1918. Reason for the car float is probably that the good routes were already taken by the GN and NP, yet the Milwaukee wanted access to the border. Any line would be expensive, and probably steep.
About the Olympic Peninsula line, it was mostly lumber, and IIRC was built by the Milwaukee.
After dieselization Milwaukee used SD9s on the Port Angeles line, which lasted into the 1980s. In its last couple of years it was teh Seattle and North Coast. The Port Angeles branch was rated for normal car weights in the 1970s.
A 1926 map doesn't show a line to the Canadian border. By the 1970's the isolated line north of Bellingham was reached off BN (fromer GN) trackage rights. The Milwaukee acquired rights to Sumas on the border as part of the BN merger, though it may have had its own line there earlier. The Sumas line was ex-NP.
Northwest:
I have a 1948 OG on CD and that shows an isolated piece of the MILW on the Olympic Peninsula starting at Port Angeles (I could not make out the end point). A car float operated from the mainland to Port Angeles. I believe I read that a very light engine was used on that line.
Digging further, I discovered that the MILW connected with the Port Angeles Western RR at Port Angeles.
The Puget Sound Navigation Company operated a car ferry to Victoria, BC.
Another question is why the MILW would purchase that property due to the extra cost of operating a car float?
Ed Burns
763-234-9306
The Milwaukee Road had only one direct track connection to Canada, on a small disconnected segment in Washington, initially served only by car float. It was originally built by another company in the 1800s before being purchased by the Milwaukee. Name this railroad.
On heavy rail instead of light rail...off my trolley, I guess! How can one remember something he only rode once...and when he was no older than five at that!. But I do remember now...but because I viewed the trestle hundreds of times!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Go and ask the next question. But I am shocked that Henry did not come up with Public Service of New Jersey's old Hoboken Elevated which extended to Jersey City and terminated at the Lackawanna Terminal, replaced by Hudson-Bergan NJT Light Rail - elevated at the Lackawanna Terminal. Henry, where were you?
daveklepperI repharse the question for modern elevated structures that effectively replace ones torn down many years ago or other electric transit facilties, not necessarily elevateds, that served the same areas.
1. Parts of the MARTA system are elevated, and some replace Georgia Railway and Power streetcar lines. This includes the Red Line, which is close to the former Peachtree Road line.
2. The LACMTA has several segments:
The Blue Line has some elevated running south of downtown LA, and essentially duplicates (and operates on some old ROW) of the PE Long Beach line.
The Expo Line also has elevated running, and replaces the PE Santa Monica Air Line.
The Gold Line to Pasadena is also close to a former PE line, and has elevated running.
The Green Line is elevated and is close to several originally PE lines.
3. Elevated BART lines operate where Sacramento Northern lines were.
4. Washington DC Metro has elevated sections. Replaces DC transit
5. Link Light Rail has elevated sections that are pretty close to sections of the old recently discussed PSE ROW.
I just realized that my question violates the purpose of the the thread! Which is to discuss railroad matters 50 years ago or so or more. And here I was asking for MODERN elevated structures. So, after thanking one and all for politeness in not putting my feet to the fire for this obvious Nono, I repharse the question for modern elevated structures that effectively replace ones torn down many years ago or other electric transit facilties, not necessarily elevateds, that served the same areas.
I will give one example: The modern Miami rapid transit system is mostly on elevated structure and replaces the streetcar network that served the same Miami area in the "classic" era, including (getting specific) the Conanut Grove streetcar system, with the southern end of the structure located there,.
daveklepper Most not specific enough . Hint: One structure is somewhat of a replacement for a classic one nearby including a station essentialliy at the terminal of the classic one that was torn down almost 60 years ago.
Most not specific enough . Hint: One structure is somewhat of a replacement for a classic one nearby including a station essentialliy at the terminal of the classic one that was torn down almost 60 years ago.
And now - yanking the thread back to its original purpose (Thanks NorthWest for posting all the PSE stuff together!)... Anyone have an answer for Dave?
Dave, congrats on hitting the big 7500 post!
Later (post 1950) transit systems are so few in number in the US that it is maybe best to classify each in its own category, as they are all unique. The H&M and later PATH I classify as being heavy rail, despite the official status. PATCO as well. Then there is hybrids like the MBTA Green Line. It is all so complicated.
I like rail traction.
The northan portion of Sacrament Northern, from Sacramento to Chico,was mostly third rail with wire interruptions.
H&M legally was a railroad, but actually heavy rapid transit. PATCO was legally an interurban but actually heavy rapid transit. Now?
One odd "feature" of the Puget Sound Electric was the tendency of its third rail to travel - crews were always adding and removing sections. This is especially odd since the line was single track and used in both directions.
Mare! H&M is and always was rapid transit. No single car operation--always four or more cars multiple unit operated, with at least one conductor plus a motorman; no fares collected on train--all by turnstyle entry; no street operation-- all private right of way, all stops at high platform stations.
narig01Don't forget the Key Systems route into Transbay Terminal off the Bay Bridge. Rgds IGN
I've always tended to think of the Key System and the Hudson & Manhattan as being "transit" but they actually fit the description of an interurban. The CA&E was a true interurban and, as far as I know, was the second longest 3rd rail one, exceeded only by the Puget Sound Electric.
Mark
Mark, I'm not sure why the PSE used third rail, they used overhead wire in urban areas. The later built lines were both wire. The reason why they attached parlor cars is likely the competition: they had at least three railroads operating the same service.
Back to Dave's question:
Don't they have to be 50 years old or older, so before November 1963?
I was surprised to learn that the Puget Sound Electric was 3rd rail and wonder why it was built that way instead of the usual trolley wire or catenary. According to the Jan 1910 OG the total mileage of its mainline and branches was 117 miles. This doesn't even include the Seattle-Everett and Mount Vernon-Bellingham lines which were built later. Adding these latter segments the PSE total mileage probably became at least 140 miles making it, I believe, the longest 3rd rail interurban in the US. It's also interesting to note that the 1910 OG contains the note, "PARLOR CARS attached to all trains" which had to be rather exceptional in that day and time.
Don't forget BART, WMATA (D.C) and MARTA (Atlanta)... Chicago had short sections (South Side -> Dan Ryan, station at Cermak) and long (Orange Line, most of the way to Midway Airport). Chicago also modified and more recently completely rebuilt the Paulina connector including new structure over the (then) Congress Expressway and the ramp to Lake St. which was plenty long enough to include stations but doesn't have any after the Madison station was removed in the 1960s. PAT even has some new elevated structure connecting to the former PRR "Mon" bridge in Pittsburgh. The new L.A. and Seattle light rail lines have lots of what could be considered elevated structure.
NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, LIRR (several branches, especially where electrification was installed new), Miami, ...umm how far post WWII you talken' about here?
Sacramento Northen Chico Birney cars ran into the 1950's, including an extension built in WWII. Lat nickle fare streetcars.
Name all post WWII elevated transit system sructures long enough to include at least one station.
Correct. Last Sacramento cars ran in 1947.
Easy, Sacamento California, most lines operated by Pacific Gas and Electric, Sacramento Northern one line, Central Callifornia Traction one line, new owner Sacramento Transit owned by National City Lines. The SN and CCT lines were combined into one before bustitution. I think NCL took over in 1944.
After I posted my last reply I got home and looked up Washington state Interurbans in my ancient copy of "The Interurban Era". I was sure I had got it wrong until you pointed out the Stone and Webster common ownership. Good to have you in the forum, NorthWest !
This state capital had three different companies providing streetcar service until near the end of WWII, when all of them were sold to a new operator, and converted to bus soon after the war. Two of the lines were operated by interurban companies using city cars, with the third, larger system operated by a power company.
Rob gets it. The name I was looking for is Pacific Northwest Traction, but since they were owned by the same company, Stone and Webster, I'll count it. He also correctly described the disconnected segment with a 4 mile long trestle. Stone and Webster had grand plans of creating a Olympia-Vancouver B.C. interurban. Perhaps we could have had a major interurban like the North Shore had all the lines been completed. One of the great what ifs...
Rob, your turn.
rcdrye I seem to remember that PugetSound Electric had an isolated line north of Seattle (near Bellingham?), separate from its third rail Seattle Tacoma line.
I seem to remember that PugetSound Electric had an isolated line north of Seattle (near Bellingham?), separate from its third rail Seattle Tacoma line.
Puget Sound Electric is not listed in the Jan 1930 OG as it was abandoned in 1927 or '28. Jan 1910 is my next earlier OG and it shows the PSE main between Tacoma and Seattle with several branches connected to the mainline at Tacoma and a branch to Renton running off the main at Renton Jct. The line was extended from Seattle to Everett around 1910. Next the PSE either built or acquired an existing line between Mount Vernon and Bellingham. Construction of a connecting link between Everett and Mount Vernon was started but never completed. As Rob has suggested this left the Mount Vernon-Bellingham segment disconnected from the rest of the system.
Having found this info I suspect Rob is correct in identifying the Puget Sound Electric as the answer to this question.
I believe the Yakima Valley Transportation Co. had two disconnected routes. According to the 1930 OG's one ran between Yakima and Wiley City and the other between Yakimato and Speyers. I've searched Google looking for Yakimato and all that comes up are Yakima sites so I'm inclined to believe Yakimato was/is a community within the city of Yakima.
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