Ok...I think there was a connection somewhere near Metutchen on the PRR and east of Belle Meade on the RDG...not the RDG Port Reading Branch...which still exists as an industrial track off the Corridor today but does not go all the way to CSX.
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daveklepperI finally remembered what may be the correct answer. Using the CofNJ all the way to Newark means going east through Elizabethport and then crossing Newark Bay a second time, a roundabout route. I suspect that during WWI the CNJ-PRR crossing at Elizabeth itself, a crossing that still exists but without passenger service on the old CNJ line, was not grade separated. I think that came with electrication of the PRR main. But in any case logically there was probably a good track connection at that point and it would have been easy for the B&O trains to leave the CofNJ main to use the PRR through Newark to Manhattan Transfer and the DD-1's to take them to Penn Station. The connection probably bypassed the CNJ Elizabeth station, which was normally a stop for most if not all B&O Jersey City trains. But they would have used CNJ tracks from Bound Brook to Elizabeth to reach the PRR. The reason most if not all B&O trains stopped at Elizabeth is that it was an excellent station for suburban Jersey residents to board trains to the south and west, saving lots of time over going into NYC.
I finally remembered what may be the correct answer. Using the CofNJ all the way to Newark means going east through Elizabethport and then crossing Newark Bay a second time, a roundabout route. I suspect that during WWI the CNJ-PRR crossing at Elizabeth itself, a crossing that still exists but without passenger service on the old CNJ line, was not grade separated. I think that came with electrication of the PRR main. But in any case logically there was probably a good track connection at that point and it would have been easy for the B&O trains to leave the CofNJ main to use the PRR through Newark to Manhattan Transfer and the DD-1's to take them to Penn Station.
The connection probably bypassed the CNJ Elizabeth station, which was normally a stop for most if not all B&O Jersey City trains. But they would have used CNJ tracks from Bound Brook to Elizabeth to reach the PRR.
The reason most if not all B&O trains stopped at Elizabeth is that it was an excellent station for suburban Jersey residents to board trains to the south and west, saving lots of time over going into NYC.
Here's a hint: the CofNJ was not involved with the reroute.
henry6Ok, I'm ending the Royal Blue Line at the end of B&O track thus elimnating RDG and CNJ. But to follow your "train of thought" then I would venture E'port to Waverly Yard to PRR either through NEwark or via Hudson Tower and Manhatten Transfer.
Ok, I'm ending the Royal Blue Line at the end of B&O track thus elimnating RDG and CNJ. But to follow your "train of thought" then I would venture E'port to Waverly Yard to PRR either through NEwark or via Hudson Tower and Manhatten Transfer.
Here's a hint: the RDG was still involved.
henry6So that would mean getting on PRR rails in Delaware before the B&O got onto RDG rails? Or did they go on to Wayne Junction? East of there there there is no other chance execpt coming down from West Trenton to Trenton on the Bel Del which I don't believe was a feasible connection or route.
So that would mean getting on PRR rails in Delaware before the B&O got onto RDG rails? Or did they go on to Wayne Junction? East of there there there is no other chance execpt coming down from West Trenton to Trenton on the Bel Del which I don't believe was a feasible connection or route.
Your guesses are getting colder. Look at my previous answer. The eastern end of the Royal Blue Line would be around New York.
henry6The CNJ station in Newark was a stub end station on a line from the east, Jersey City, and not connected to the CNJ main line which crossed under the PRR at Elizabeth. The "Aldene" connectin between the CNJ and the LV was not built until the 60's so that, coupled with the Hunter Tower connection, was not viable. The best bet for a PRR/B&O connection lies somewhere down in the City of Brotherly Love (unless you are a Pittsburg Penguin, New York Ranger, Montreal Canadien, or Chicago Blackhawks fan in which case its that place across the Delaware River from Camden).
The CNJ station in Newark was a stub end station on a line from the east, Jersey City, and not connected to the CNJ main line which crossed under the PRR at Elizabeth. The "Aldene" connectin between the CNJ and the LV was not built until the 60's so that, coupled with the Hunter Tower connection, was not viable. The best bet for a PRR/B&O connection lies somewhere down in the City of Brotherly Love (unless you are a Pittsburg Penguin, New York Ranger, Montreal Canadien, or Chicago Blackhawks fan in which case its that place across the Delaware River from Camden).
The route modification was done nearer the eastern end of the Royal Blue Line, instead of the Philadelphia area.
daveklepperAt that time the present Newark Pennsylvania Station did not exist, and there was a track connection between the then surface-level PRR Newark station and the Jersey Central Newark Station, the latter a station that lasted until well after WWII. I believe that was the route and not the route via the Lehigh Valley used by the Aldein Plan and still in use by NJT for the Raritan Valley trains and that would of course also be used by any restoration of passenger service to West Trenton over the Reading line. (Bound Brook being the juction of the Reading and CNJ.) What I am not certain about, is whether these B&O trains used the old PRR or the CofNJ station in Newark. I think they would have had to use the former, because my memory says the CofNJ stration was actually a terminal, stub-end, while the old PRR station was a through station. They exchanged steam for DD-1's at Manhattan Transfer just like the PRR and LV trains did. This probably forced the PRR to run more trains to Exchange Place in Jersey City.
At that time the present Newark Pennsylvania Station did not exist, and there was a track connection between the then surface-level PRR Newark station and the Jersey Central Newark Station, the latter a station that lasted until well after WWII. I believe that was the route and not the route via the Lehigh Valley used by the Aldein Plan and still in use by NJT for the Raritan Valley trains and that would of course also be used by any restoration of passenger service to West Trenton over the Reading line. (Bound Brook being the juction of the Reading and CNJ.)
What I am not certain about, is whether these B&O trains used the old PRR or the CofNJ station in Newark. I think they would have had to use the former, because my memory says the CofNJ stration was actually a terminal, stub-end, while the old PRR station was a through station.
They exchanged steam for DD-1's at Manhattan Transfer just like the PRR and LV trains did.
This probably forced the PRR to run more trains to Exchange Place in Jersey City.
No exactly. Basically, the CofNJ was shut out of the Royal Blue Line during this time period.
daveklepperRight on! Looks like now you are the winner and should ask the next question.
Right on! Looks like now you are the winner and should ask the next question.
Between 1918 and 1926 the B&O was able to operate its New York trains to Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan, instead of Jersey City. What was the routing the B&O trains used to get to Pennsylvania Station?
daveklepperThat is one. Another on the same railroad please?
That is one. Another on the same railroad please?
The Frisco Firefly?
daveklepperAs a passenger train, the Balckhawk was a CB&Q ovenright Chi-Twin train and was simultaneous with the MP truck usage. Don't count. But correct on other two. Score 3 - 1 - 2 IN one case the two train names (passenger and frieght) as the usually applied shortcut name for the railroad begin with the same letter.
As a passenger train, the Balckhawk was a CB&Q ovenright Chi-Twin train and was simultaneous with the MP truck usage. Don't count. But correct on other two. Score 3 - 1 - 2
IN one case the two train names (passenger and frieght) as the usually applied shortcut name for the railroad begin with the same letter.
The Frisco Meteor?
Shot in the dark. Eagle , Missouri Pacific?
Also while here The Piedmont , Southern Ry? Didn't that kind of morph from a passenger train to a mixed passenger/TOFC to only TOFC?
The only other name I can think of is Blackhawk which was used by Missouri Pacific for there truck service.
Rgds IGN
Zepjyr overland has three and Paul has one. Go to the southwest and you'll find some more, also to the south.
Overland Mail - UP
I will accept those, but please come up with at least two more!!!
daveklepperName at least five or more names of really excellent passenger trains (can be all-coach streamliners, all first class, whatever, but always premium passenger trains at the times they were operated), whose names were then used for fast freight service after, sometimes long after, the passenger trains was discontinued. Can be a general service name and not just one round-trip train. But must be the same railroad or its successor.
Name at least five or more names of really excellent passenger trains (can be all-coach streamliners, all first class, whatever, but always premium passenger trains at the times they were operated), whose names were then used for fast freight service after, sometimes long after, the passenger trains was discontinued. Can be a general service name and not just one round-trip train. But must be the same railroad or its successor.
Ill start with:
Pacemaker - NYC
Orange Blossom Special - SAL -> CSX
Super C(hief) - ATSF
daveklepperI am not sure I understand the question comletely, but I think you are looking for train names for the trains the Keystone equipment (low-profile ultra-lightweight, regular width and length and double-truck stainless steel) was used for. This would include at times, the Morning Keystone, the Afternoon Keystone, the Morning Congressional, (but never the Afternoon Congressional), the just plane Keystone running to Harrisburg. I don't remember this equipment ever running north of NYC-Penn on the New Haven. But at times it did show up on the Executive and possibly the Mayflower.
I am not sure I understand the question comletely, but I think you are looking for train names for the trains the Keystone equipment (low-profile ultra-lightweight, regular width and length and double-truck stainless steel) was used for. This would include at times, the Morning Keystone, the Afternoon Keystone, the Morning Congressional, (but never the Afternoon Congressional), the just plane Keystone running to Harrisburg. I don't remember this equipment ever running north of NYC-Penn on the New Haven. But at times it did show up on the Executive and possibly the Mayflower.
This may have been an unclear question. My thoughts concerning this question revolved on the low-profile Keystone equipment. I assumed that this equipment was used only on trains named the Keystone or a variation of that name. I was unaware of any official assignments of this equipment on other named trains. The train names I was looking for include:
Morning Keystone
Afternoon Keystone
Evening Keystone
Midnight Keystone
There was also a Keystone Express that ran before WWI between Jersey City and Chicago/St. Louis and another Keystone Express that ran ofter WWII from Pittsburgh to Sunbury in conjunction with the Lackawanna, but that's out of scope for this question.
At this point go ahead and ask the next question, Dave.
al-in-chgothe Pennsy used to have enormous shop works in a neighborhood of Indianapois named "Keystone." IIRC it is just east of the main drag, I-65, just s. of where I-70 EB has departed toward Ohio. I do not know if that is the same area that Amtrak today calls "Beech Grove," although it wouldn't surprise me.
Johnny
al-in-chgo As for the next question - variations on a theme: PRR's Keystone - list the train names that the PRR used in relation to this name. Okay, to get the ball rolling -- the Pennsy used to have enormous shop works in a neighborhood of Indianapois named "Keystone." IIRC it is just east of the main drag, I-65, just s. of where I-70 EB has departed toward Ohio. I do not know if that is the same area that Amtrak today calls "Beech Grove," although it wouldn't surprise me. Also, "K" class Pennsy steam locomotives! Best known was probably the K4, which most other lines would call a Pacific. "Standard of the World" or was it "World Standard" as to standardized rolling stock, thru traffic, and so on......or just plain bein' impressive! - al
As for the next question - variations on a theme:
PRR's Keystone - list the train names that the PRR used in relation to this name.
Okay, to get the ball rolling -- the Pennsy used to have enormous shop works in a neighborhood of Indianapois named "Keystone." IIRC it is just east of the main drag, I-65, just s. of where I-70 EB has departed toward Ohio. I do not know if that is the same area that Amtrak today calls "Beech Grove," although it wouldn't surprise me.
Also, "K" class Pennsy steam locomotives! Best known was probably the K4, which most other lines would call a Pacific. "Standard of the World" or was it "World Standard" as to standardized rolling stock, thru traffic, and so on......or just plain bein' impressive! - al
Al - I'm looking for variations of the Keystone name that PRR used on other PRR passenger train names.
DeggestyZephyrOverlandLooks like the car actually was conveyed on the Pacific Limited from Chicago to Oakland, with the Milwaukee Road doing the honors between Chicago and Omaha - the only Overland Route train to be operated this way at the time, not running on the C&NW. I wonder if there was an error in the listings, or was it a case of the car just being switched from the San Francisco Limited to the Pacific Limited or vise versa and the railroads involved had not gotten their information synchronized. I've seen a number of such discrepancies is various issues of the Official Guide. That's the odd one that I was thinking of. That the Milwaukee had part in an "Overland" train interested me several years ago. So, you have the honor again.
ZephyrOverlandLooks like the car actually was conveyed on the Pacific Limited from Chicago to Oakland, with the Milwaukee Road doing the honors between Chicago and Omaha - the only Overland Route train to be operated this way at the time, not running on the C&NW. I wonder if there was an error in the listings, or was it a case of the car just being switched from the San Francisco Limited to the Pacific Limited or vise versa and the railroads involved had not gotten their information synchronized. I've seen a number of such discrepancies is various issues of the Official Guide.
That's the odd one that I was thinking of. That the Milwaukee had part in an "Overland" train interested me several years ago.
So, you have the honor again.
In the years before WWI, when the Overland Limited was the premier Chicago-San Francisco Overland Route train via the Chicago and North Western, the Milwaukee Road tried to get some of the Overland's cachet by operating a Chicago-San Francisco Pullman which connected with the main Overland Limited at Omaha. The name of Milwaukee Road's Chicago-Omaha train? The Overland Limited. Milwaukee Road period advertising featured its Overland Limited and its through San Francisco Pullman, but in the fine print the ads mentioned that their train only connected with UP's train.
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