The Lehigh Valley was the main railroad that operated the Maple Leaf for many years. At various times it was a Jersey City - Toronto train, a New York Penn Station - Toronto train, and also a New York - Chicago train, with cars to both Toronto and Chicago. This train operated on the Pennsy, the Lehigh Valley, a short stretch of New York Central trackage rights in the Bufffalo area, the Canadian National, and of course the Grand Trunk Western for the CN's lines in the USA. Plus a terminal trackage rights deal into Chicago, forget which railroad was involved. As a NY - Chicago train, it bypassed Detroit, running through the St. Clair tunnel. The train was served as a Grand Trunk Western - Canadian National train between Chicago and Toronto, and this probably outlasted the Lehigh Valley train of the same name. This also bypassed Detroit. I don't recall the exact dates of which cars ran where, but the name was used for all these end-points at one time or another. The last limited express on the CN - GTW Chicago - Toronto run was the International Limited, an overnight train, and I think the Maple Leaf was the day train. In New York State. on the LV, it bypassed Albany, Schenectady, Utica, and Syracuse, all stops on the Amtrak Maple Leaf. At one time, it may have bypassed Buffalo running directly to Niagra Falls, without using the Central trackage rights, and possibly at another time it may have bypassed Niagra Falls going via Welland? (not sure of the name).
Amtrak currently operates a train called Maple Leaf. Sixty years ago, there was a train called The Maple Leaf. What roads operated it and what cities did it serve with through service? What community in New York state did this train, alone of all trains operated by the main road, serve? What city in New York did it bypass?
Johnny
Deggesty ZephyrOverland: FlyingCrow: Step up and ask the next question. The Pennsy had a blue one, The Lehigh Valley had a black one, The IC had a green one, What? And what were the endpoints? The Lehigh's Black Diamond ran between New York and Buffalo, with through coaches Philadelphia-Buffalo The IC's Green Diamond ran between Chicago and St. Louis. I had never heard of the Pennsy's Blue Diamond. Did it run between the match box and the fire laid in the fireplace?
ZephyrOverland: FlyingCrow: Step up and ask the next question. The Pennsy had a blue one, The Lehigh Valley had a black one, The IC had a green one, What? And what were the endpoints?
FlyingCrow: Step up and ask the next question.
Step up and ask the next question.
The Pennsy had a blue one,
The Lehigh Valley had a black one,
The IC had a green one,
What? And what were the endpoints?
The Lehigh's Black Diamond ran between New York and Buffalo, with through coaches Philadelphia-Buffalo
The IC's Green Diamond ran between Chicago and St. Louis.
I had never heard of the Pennsy's Blue Diamond. Did it run between the match box and the fire laid in the fireplace?
Johnny, you got the first two. The PRR Blue Diamond ran for 6 months in the latter half of 1965 as an experimental run between Wilmington and Delmar.
Go ahead and ask the next question.
ZephyrOverland FlyingCrow: Step up and ask the next question. The Pennsy had a blue one, The Lehigh Valley had a black one, The IC had a green one, What? And what were the endpoints?
FlyingCrow Step up and ask the next question.
Zephyr...you've won the daily double, again.
Around 45 years ago I traveled to Europe with a group from the SoCal area. Among the group was a guy named Roy Crump. In a loose conversation, he said "Oh, you probably have heard of my uncle, Spenser".
I'll say I had.... The author of "Ride The Big Red Cars"....America's largest interurban, Pacific Electric.
FlyingCrow Ok.....my turn....here we go. It's slogan was Comfort-Speed-Safety.
Ok.....my turn....here we go.
It's slogan was Comfort-Speed-Safety.
Pacific Electric
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Henry, thanks. You did get the essentials, very fast. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Now Phoebe's rightYou'll expediteThe trip by road of Anthracite
That's good, but the actual line(s) are
I have to hand it to the DL&W for being even more clever than Burma Shave.
Happiest of Holidays to ALL!!
But with gown of White
Miss Phobe's flight
'twas on the Road of Antrhacite!
Whatever!!!! Mike, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Hope to see more of your wonderful finds for many New Years to come. They are some of the best reasons to keep posted on these pages!
Thank S.!
A coach or sleighWas once the wayOf reaching homeOn Christmas Day.......................................................................................?
Mike
I check to Wanswheel. I've had plenty of questions up lately.
I should have known the answer, being a director of the ACL&SAL HS. You learn stuff on here.
wanswheel Jacksonville in 1888 http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F00F11F9385413738DDDAA0A94DA415B8884F0D3 St. Augustine in 1890 http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20B13FD3F5F10738DDDA80994D9405B8085F0D3 Knight's Key (Marathon) in 1908 http://books.google.com/books?id=HPnsBWABKwoC&pg=PT157
Jacksonville in 1888
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F00F11F9385413738DDDAA0A94DA415B8884F0D3
St. Augustine in 1890
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20B13FD3F5F10738DDDA80994D9405B8085F0D3
Knight's Key (Marathon) in 1908
http://books.google.com/books?id=HPnsBWABKwoC&pg=PT157
Wanswheel got the final destination - Knight's Key, near Marathon, midway on the Florida Keys. The Florida Special operated to/from Knight's Key from 1908 until the Key West Extension was completed in 1912. So, the southern termini that the (New York and) Florida Special operated to in its existance were:
Jacksonville
St. Augustine
Miami
Knight's Key
Key West
Flying Crow got two of them, SouthernGreen and Wanswheel got one each. Flying Crow, you get the next question. Good work, guys.
daveklepper After the hurricane destoryed the FEC link to Key West, passenger service was continued for a while south of Miami. Possibly Fort Pierce was the southernmost point. Whatever it was, it was most certainly for a while the southern terminous of the Florida Speical before cut back to Miami.
After the hurricane destoryed the FEC link to Key West, passenger service was continued for a while south of Miami. Possibly Fort Pierce was the southernmost point. Whatever it was, it was most certainly for a while the southern terminous of the Florida Speical before cut back to Miami.
The only train that operated between Miami and Key West right before the 1935 hurricane was the Havana Special, which operated as a local between those two cities. After the hurricane, the Havana Special was cut back to Miami and a local train was established between Miami and Florida City only, a distance of 30 miles.
Fort Pierce is 140 miles north of Miami.
Deggesty Palm Beach (the cars were taken off/added in West Palm Beach.
Palm Beach (the cars were taken off/added in West Palm Beach.
There were through cars to/from Palm Beach, but the Florida Special never utilized Palm Beach (or West Palm Beach) as an endpoint for the train. On the other hand, the Seaboard Florida Limited, the main seasonal all-Pullman train of the SAL before the Orange Blossom Special came into being, did operate as a New York-Palm Beach train for a number of seasons.
Palm Beach was never an endpoint for the Florida Special. They did have through cars going there, but I'm looking for cities where the entire train ended. So far we have:
There is one more location....
ZephyrOverland Southerngreen1401: The other two Key West and Miami. The New York and Florida Special did run to Key West for one or two seasons before WWI. I mentioned Miami in my original question and I was looking for 4 other cities. One more end point to go.
Southerngreen1401: The other two Key West and Miami.
The other two Key West and Miami.
The New York and Florida Special did run to Key West for one or two seasons before WWI. I mentioned Miami in my original question and I was looking for 4 other cities.
One more end point to go.
As to the Georgia Southern & Florida's lines (the Southern System's road that entered Florida), the main line was Macon to Jacksonville through Valdosta, and the line to Palatka was a branch. The Kansas City-Florida Special and the Skyland Special entered Jacksonville by trackage rights over the ACL (Hardeeville, S. C., through Jesup to Jacksonville for the Skyland Special, and Jesup-Jacksonville for the KC-Fla Special) There were some variations, as for at least one season, the KC-Fla Special ran through Valdosta and the Royal Palm ran through Jesup one way, and both trains ran their usual routes in the other direction.
Except for the Sunbeam, the FEC was the Southern's choice of a partner for cars to/from Miami, and the SAL was the choice for West Coast destinations (in all the timetables I have).
Southerngreen1401 The other two Key West and Miami.
Southerngreen1401 Southern trains transfer to FEC. Their were no Southern rail lines in Florida.
Southern trains transfer to FEC. Their were no Southern rail lines in Florida.
Oh yes there was. The Southern had a branch running from Valdosta to Palatka, FL which was the route of the Florida Sunbeam bypassing Jacksonville. The Southern also ran to Perry in north Florida.
Mark
FlyingCrow JACKSONVILLE ST. AUGUSTINE W. PALM BEACH That's my guess.
JACKSONVILLE
ST. AUGUSTINE
W. PALM BEACH
That's my guess.
St. Augustine was the original southern terminus for the New York and Florida Special. Jacksonville is also appropriate since in the years immediately before WWI the FEC operated the through cars from the New York and Florida Special and Seaboard Florida Limited as one train called the Over-Sea Limited south of Jacksonville. I didn't count Jacksonville originally so there are now four cities needed to answer the question. Good job FlyingCrow for getting two of them.
FlyingCrow ZephyrOverland got it correct ! The Chicago & Eastern Illinois operated the Silent Knight between St. Louis- Chicago. Departing at ~ 11:30 at night their theory was that it would cross Illinois in the middle of the night through the dead quiet of sleepy farmlands. The ad in the C&EI timetable was somewhat amusing....showing a large suit of armor next to the train name. The Zipper was their "streamliner" contraption for points further south toward what is generally referred to as the Egyptian delta of Illinois. I would have also accepted "The Quiet Road" or "Silent Road", but THE BOULEVARD OF STEEL, also mentioned in the answer was what I was looking for. While the C&EI goes generally unsung it truly had one of the more "lyrical" slogans. TAKE IT AWAY!!
ZephyrOverland got it correct ! The Chicago & Eastern Illinois operated the Silent Knight between St. Louis- Chicago. Departing at ~ 11:30 at night their theory was that it would cross Illinois in the middle of the night through the dead quiet of sleepy farmlands. The ad in the C&EI timetable was somewhat amusing....showing a large suit of armor next to the train name. The Zipper was their "streamliner" contraption for points further south toward what is generally referred to as the Egyptian delta of Illinois.
I would have also accepted "The Quiet Road" or "Silent Road", but THE BOULEVARD OF STEEL, also mentioned in the answer was what I was looking for. While the C&EI goes generally unsung it truly had one of the more "lyrical" slogans.
TAKE IT AWAY!!
For a relatively small railroad, the C&EI fielded an impressive passenger operation in that they operated trains that went beyond their lines to Florida, Nashville, New Orleans, St. Louis and even Texas points in conjunction with the Cotton Belt.
As for the next question:
It's mid-December. It's cold up north. At one time, if you had the means and the social status, you would have went to Florida for the winter on ACL's New York and Florida Special (or just the Florida Special). Miami was the most well known Florida endpoint for this train, BUT, this train at one time or another called three other Florida east coast cities as its southern terminus. What were they? Please note that I'm concerned only with the east coast section of the Special - west coast cities are not considered in this question.
daveklepper The Pennsylvanina had a train "The White Night" at one time, but not The Silent Night.
The Pennsylvanina had a train "The White Night" at one time, but not The Silent Night.
I believe the PRR train you are thinking about was the New York-Chicago Red Knight, not the White Knight.
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