Changing from steam to electric (and vice versa) at Wilmington?
For much of its life, the Del-Mar-Va Express originated at Penn Station. I do not remember the exact years, but I often did see it posted on the departure board. I think the same must have been true of the Cavalier, but I had no personal experience, just an awairness that there was also an overnight train.
But your answer is very close. Just stop and think how these trains operated, and how for a few years many trains shared the same characteristics. Hint: The Cape Charles trains did not servce Baltimore, of course, since the Cape Charles line branches off the NEC at Wilmington.
Then modifying my answer to say the same locomotive (power) ran both trains from common terminal point...Baltimore?
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The Del-Mar-Va Express and the Philadelphia-Cape Charles sleeper on the Cavalier ran between Broad Street in Philadelphia and Cape Charles. And, New York passengers from/to the Express changed in Wilmington. At least, this was the situation in 1950.
Johnny
Again, we are talking about operations, not schedules or passenger equipment. The characteristic could have been a bit different, but was not and was unique to these four schedules passenger trains (two in each direction) during the WWII period and as long as both and either train operated. If the passenger service were reinstated today (NY-Cape Charles passenger train), probably Amtrak would change the practice slightly to conform with what it does with at least one other train movement in an out of New York Penn Station.
You are somewhat close. Think about how both trains were operated. For a few years in the '30's, a lot of trains were operated this way.
Or was it the same trainset used on both trains?
No engine change at Delmar?
A few corrections and additions to the North Shore streetcar answer. The east-west Waukegan line was on Washington Street, and two second-hand small two-motored but double truck streetcars were bougt for this line replacing the Birneys and older deck-roof cars, which were then used on the line only as spares. The two secojd-hand two-motor cars were never used in Great Lakes service. Another second-hand car came to Waukegan from the C&AE. similar to the CNS&M's own double truck cars for WWII service only, it had once been used on the C&AE's Batavia Branch (where I rode the wood interurban car regular in 1952). The two lightweight cars on the Mundelein Branch were not streetcars similar to the Milwaukee - Waukegan cars but were Cincinnati lightweight curved-side interurban cars, with lavatories. and were put into storage and possibliy sold after replacement with regular steel interurban cars/ (In my opnion the North Shore could have used them in Great Lakes - Waukegan service if they had still been available. They were only slightly larger than the four-motored lightweight double-truck streetcars and had air-operated doors. But they did not.)
MY new question is coninunation of the topic on the other quiz thread.
The PRR Cavalier and Del-Mar-Va Express shared one characteristic unique to these two as passenger trains. This characteristic had been shared with many other PRR passenger trains at one time. What was this unique for passenger trains characteristic?
A few extra tidbits about North Shore's local streetcars. The cars were all lettered for "Chicago & Milwaukee Electric RR", which was North Shore's predecessor. After the streetcar lines in Waukegan were abandoned, the local buses were operated by Waukegan-North Chicago Transit, a North Shore subsidiary. The operation continues as the North Division of PACE, RTA's suburban bus operation.
Jack Benny probably rode the Waukegan streetcars about a hundred years ago.
http://weblogs.cltv.com/news/local/chicago/Jack%20Benny%20Statue-thumb.JPG
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/176ae219ae78fa61_landing
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Rochester_&_camel.jpg
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Very comprehensive answer, Dave. The next question is yours.
Mark
I will give you a definite answer to that question. The two long-time cities were Waukegan and Milwaukee. Milwaukee had only one North Shore streetcar line, which operated south on the main line to Chicago, bypassed the North Shore Sttation on 6th (or 5th) Street and ran about an equal distance north. After WWII the northern portion was abandoned, and then the southern portion for local service a few years later. I think the southern terminus was just a crossover between the two main tracks about at the Milwaukee city limits. In general, it used double-truck lightweight safety cars not much different from many of the TME local cars that dominated the rest of the Milwaukee service. It exchanged transfers with only one of the many TME local lines, and that was because at one time that line had belonged to a different interurban that often ran in connection with the North Shore. During WWII, many of the double-truck safety cars went south to the other North Shore local system in Waukegan, where they were needed because of the vast increase in business with Great Lakes Navel Statation seamen. Then there was a mixture of the remaining double-truck cars, some single-truck Birneys, and during rush hours some old deck-roof wood cars brought out of retirement.
The Waukegan system had two routes, one basically north-south, with the southern half shared by Shore Line interurban trains from Chicago running as far as 10th Street (?) the interurban station, the sharing between that station and southern end of local streetcar service at the Great Lakes Station or Downeys (I think with its own entrance to the Naval Base). Some cars ran south only to North Chicago Junction, where both Shore Line and Skokie Line trains shared the same tracks. (Only two tracks at the station) North of the interurban station this north south line ran north to place I think called Glen Elen, and then split, with one branch going east almost to Lake Michigan and to the Northwestern RR line (may not have had a station there, however) one went north I think to park or a retirement home, and one went west to another North Shore local interurban station (Glen Elen?). There was also an east-west line that ran to the West Waukegan station on the main line to Milwaykee and had a single switch track connection. I don't beleive all three branches of the n-s line were used at the same period. The track connection to downtown and west on the east-west line was kept usable after all local streetcar service was ended and replaced by buses, to facilitate equipment moves of interurban cars. The system shrunk after WWII. with only the downtown to Great Lakes streetcars running at the end. Birneys were the usual in Waukegan, but some double-truck lightweights were brought from MIlwaukee to handle additional loads during WWII, plus some of the retired deck roof wood cars. The last service was provided by the double-truck lightweights.
In addition, two double-truck local streetcars were used at the beginning on the Mundelein branch shuttle (Lake Forest Junction?), until the railroad decided that, with the higher speeds on the branch, the mix of lightweight streetcars and heavy interurbans through from Chicago was not a good idea, and the two streetcars were replaced there by single and two-car interurban trains.
In addition to all that, before WWII, the Shore LIne local interurban trains really provided streetcar service for most of the North Shore suburbs along the shore of Lake Michigan, Wilmett to Highwood, with stops about every two blocks. During WWII with the need for more capacity and better service, the operation was reorganized with locals stopping only at defined stations, much like any rapid transit system, with typical rapid transit system station spacing. The streetcar-like service provided by local interurban trains (some not running through to Chicago but terminating at Evanston) was a holdover from the original companies that built the shore line route, much of it cobbled together from end-to-end consolidatons of streetcar companies. There were also Shore Line Expresses.
Like the South Shore, the North Shore (CNS&M) was the opertator of local streetcar lines. In what city or cities did the North Shore provide the streetcar service?
We have a winner. The service was between East Chicago and Indiana Harbor and was discontinued in 1926. Mark, you get to ask the next question.
CSSHEGEWISCH KCSfan: I'm not at all sure but I seem to recall that the South Shore had a streetcar operation in Gary at one time. I couldn't tell you when it was discontinued but I'm pretty sure it was prior to WW2. I'll hazard a guess and say itt was in the early 30's (or possibly even the late 20's). Mark Close but not quite. All streetcars in Gary were operated by Gary Railways. The operation was just a little further west.
KCSfan: I'm not at all sure but I seem to recall that the South Shore had a streetcar operation in Gary at one time. I couldn't tell you when it was discontinued but I'm pretty sure it was prior to WW2. I'll hazard a guess and say itt was in the early 30's (or possibly even the late 20's). Mark
I'm not at all sure but I seem to recall that the South Shore had a streetcar operation in Gary at one time.
I couldn't tell you when it was discontinued but I'm pretty sure it was prior to WW2. I'll hazard a guess and say itt was in the early 30's (or possibly even the late 20's).
Close but not quite. All streetcars in Gary were operated by Gary Railways. The operation was just a little further west.
Well that leaves only Hammond or East Chicago. (or very possibly both cities). As a kid in the 1940's I often went with my parents to the Goldblatt store on Holman Ave. in Hammond. I never saw any streetcars there and I don't remember seeing any tracks in the downtown streets where they formerly operated. However given its size it's almost certain there was streetcar service in Hammond at one time and I'll guess the South Shore was the operator.
As I think more about it I guess Calumet City would be another possibility.
KCSfan I'm not at all sure but I seem to recall that the South Shore had a streetcar operation in Gary at one time. I couldn't tell you when it was discontinued but I'm pretty sure it was prior to WW2. I'll hazard a guess and say itt was in the early 30's (or possibly even the late 20's). Mark
daveklepper Unsure, but it may have been in Michigan City and possibly ran as far as Niles. It definitely included tracks that were not used by the interurban trains. If I am wrong, then that particular streetcar line was run by some other company, possibly Northern Indian Railways.
Unsure, but it may have been in Michigan City and possibly ran as far as Niles. It definitely included tracks that were not used by the interurban trains. If I am wrong, then that particular streetcar line was run by some other company, possibly Northern Indian Railways.
Not quite, you're thinking of Northern Indiana Ry, which had a Michigan City-La Porte-South Bend route, among others. South Shore's streetcar operation was further west.
FlyingCrow Michigan City, Indiana AFAIK the South Shore is still running down 11th street (?) in Michigan City.
Michigan City, Indiana
AFAIK the South Shore is still running down 11th street (?) in Michigan City.
Street railway, as in local streetcar, not street running.
More on South Shore. Like many (most?) interurbans, ths South Shore Line included a street railway operation. Where did it run and when was it discontinued?
CSSHEGEWISCH Super Chief, ATSF, Chicago-Los Angeles Super Continental, CN, Montreal/Toronto-Vancouver
Super Chief, ATSF, Chicago-Los Angeles
Super Continental, CN, Montreal/Toronto-Vancouver
You got it! Go ahead and ask the next question.
New question....
An American railroad and a Canadian railroad each upgraded their premier train by, among other things, adding the same prefix to each line's respective train name. Name the resulting trains, railroads and endpoints.
And I realize I made more than one error. It was the Federal, not the Embassy, it could not be called a streamliner since much equipment was heavyweight at the time, and I think the interpretation of the center of the continental USA should have been obvious to me. Great question.
ZephyrOverland FlyingCrow: Ok...here's a poser: 60 years ago, what streamliner would take you the epicenter of E Pluribus Unum? This may be off the wall but my interpretation of the question refers to the geographic center of the U.S., around Lebanon, Kansas If that's the case, the only streamliner which would qualify would be the Rock Island's Rocky Mountain Rocket - albeit the Rocket just passed through Lebanon, not stopping there (per December 1950 OG).
FlyingCrow: Ok...here's a poser: 60 years ago, what streamliner would take you the epicenter of E Pluribus Unum?
Ok...here's a poser:
60 years ago, what streamliner would take you the epicenter of E Pluribus Unum?
This may be off the wall but my interpretation of the question refers to the geographic center of the U.S., around Lebanon, Kansas If that's the case, the only streamliner which would qualify would be the Rock Island's Rocky Mountain Rocket - albeit the Rocket just passed through Lebanon, not stopping there (per December 1950 OG).
There you go !!! And I was very careful not to say you could get on or off the train there, but you could a few miles away, at Smith Center, upon signal. Very good. Of course 60 years ago , Alaska and Hawaii were not states so we were talking about the continental US only.
Take it away ZephyrOverland !
FlyingCrow Ok...here's a poser: 60 years ago, what streamliner would take you the epicenter of E Pluribus Unum?
60 years ago means January 1951. The center of Union Station was not reached by the B&O trains nor by the PRR trains that terminated in Washington, which stopped at the north of the station concourse . The trains to the south like the Southerner, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Silver Comet (the latter occasionally with heavyweight cars), East Coast Champion, West Coast Chamption, and Florida Special, were not in the center of the Unions Station but went through a tunnel on the east edge of the station. Do you mean the PRR Embassy that crashed through the concourse, possible to reach the center by ridiing the GG-1?
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