Deggesty passengerfan During the late 1950's into the sixties how many states west of the Mississippi River had sleeping car routes entirely within a single state,name the states which RRs operated those trains and what were the origin and destination of the sleeping car routes? Al - in - Stockton Al, I'll name some states--and maybe some others will think of the city/town pairs and the roads. Missouri, Texas, California, Colorado, Washington, Oregon; will you allow Louisiana and maybe Minnesota? Johnny
passengerfan During the late 1950's into the sixties how many states west of the Mississippi River had sleeping car routes entirely within a single state,name the states which RRs operated those trains and what were the origin and destination of the sleeping car routes? Al - in - Stockton
During the late 1950's into the sixties how many states west of the Mississippi River had sleeping car routes entirely within a single state,name the states which RRs operated those trains and what were the origin and destination of the sleeping car routes?
Al - in - Stockton
Missouri, Texas, California, Colorado, Washington, Oregon; will you allow Louisiana and maybe Minnesota?
Johnny
KCSfan No one has identified the one remaining train yet and it doesn't seem likely that anyone will name it any time soon. It was the IC's Irvine S. Cobb which ran between Louisville and Fulton, KY. With two right answers Al-in-Sacramento is our winner and the next question is his to ask. Mark
No one has identified the one remaining train yet and it doesn't seem likely that anyone will name it any time soon. It was the IC's Irvine S. Cobb which ran between Louisville and Fulton, KY.
With two right answers Al-in-Sacramento is our winner and the next question is his to ask.
Mark
henry6Was there not trains for Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone?
Yes, the San Antonio and Aransas Pass Railway Company operated the Davy Crockett on an overnight schedule between Houston and San Antonio, via Yoakum. Westbound, the train covered the 238 miles in ten hours and twenty minutes. Eastbound, it burnt the rails up in ten hours even. According to the railway's representation in the February, 1911, issue of Traveler's Railway Guide, Western Edition, "...has become known as 'THE TRAIN THAT IS ALWAYS ON TIME.'"
Offhand, I do not recall any train named for the pioneer who needed "elbow room."
Yeah, I knew St. Louis was involved, kinda thought of Indianapolis but thats why I put the question mark in quotes.
Was there not trains for Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone?
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henry6 James Whitcomb Riley, NYC to Detroit from St. Louis (?).
James Whitcomb Riley, NYC to Detroit from St. Louis (?).
Yes Henry, that's one of the two. It's not widely known but the Hoosier poet was also a humorist. You have the route wrong however. The Riley ran between Chicago, Indianapolis and Cincinatti. I'm going to keep the question open a while longer to see if anyone can identify the remaining train. If no one gets it I'll give the answer later tonight and we can move on to another question.
Dave,
Neither of the two remaing trains I have in mind were interurbans. Subject to being corrected, I don't think Ben Hur was a humorist by any stretch of the imagination.
One of the interurbans using the Indianapolis Traction Teerminal had a Ben Hur to Crawfordsville.
passengerfan I could only come up with two. The Will Rogers - Frisco - St. Louis - Oklahoma City Mark Twain Zephyr - CB&Q - St. Louis - Burlington Al - in - Stockton
I could only come up with two.
The Will Rogers - Frisco - St. Louis - Oklahoma City
Mark Twain Zephyr - CB&Q - St. Louis - Burlington
It looks like it's time for a hint or two. One of the other two that I know of ran entirely within the state of Kentucky. The other was named for a man whose greater claim to fame was as a poet rather than a humorist.
henry6Ok! I am confused and getting lost. There is another Quiz thread dealing with "trains" while this one is about "railroads". Both, however, are dealing with questions about different trains. I don't mind one way or the other, but its just a little confusing to me.
Henry,
Let me try to help you out. If you'll scroll back you'll see this is the "Classic Railroad Quiz" thread and the current questions is about trains named after humorists.
The other similar thread is "Classic Train Questions Part Deux". The current question on that thread has to do with trains that had mountain ranges is their names.
I hope that clears up any confusion.
Al,
I know of two more so let's see if you or anyone else can name them.
KCSfan On to the next question. I know of at least three US trains named for humorists. What were the names of these the trains, the RR's on which they ran and their routes? Mark
On to the next question. I know of at least three US trains named for humorists. What were the names of these the trains, the RR's on which they ran and their routes?
Mark, the DF never carried cars for the west coast. The CM and SW began carrying cars for Tampa and St. Pete only after the Southland was discontinued (it still ran for a while after the Dixieland was discontinued), and these two trains were then operated on alternate days.
Now, when I saw that the Chicago-Miami equipment on these two trains was the same, the thought came to me: the cars that came into Miami on SW went back out the next day on the DF, and the cars that came in on the DF went out on the SW (two days later, because the CM came in and went back out the day after the DF came in). Thus, daily service was provided with only three sets of equipment Chicago-Miami.
You are the only one to really work on this scheduling matter, so, please propound a question.
Johnny,
The DF and SW equipment problem is further compounded by the fact that each train carried at least three coaches and sleepers destined for west coast points. South of Jax these cars were carried in the West Coast Champion with a pair running to/from each of three cities, St. Pete, Tampa and Sarasota.
If the observation cars, and possibly the diners as well, were turned at Jax these would not present any problem. If this was the case I assume they were replaced by FEC cars for the balance of the run to/from Miami. Of course these cars were not an issue for the west coast sections since the Champion carried its own ACL diner(s) and obs car.
The problem was then confined to just the coaches and sleepers. As a minimum there would have to be a third set of coaches and sleepers running in a DF/SW equipment pool. This third set could alternate and run one trip as the DF and the next trip as the SW. I have no idea whether or not this was the practice. The other alternative would be to have two trainsets of coaches and sleepers assigned to both the DF and SW. The several times I rode the SW and the single time I rode the DF were all pre 1950 and I can't begin to recall what the train's schedules were at those times.
Mark, here is another clue. The Chicago-Miami cars on both trains had the same capacities--each train had one 18 seat coach, four 52 seat coaches, and the sleepers were identical: one 6 section, 6 double bedroom, one 8 section, 2 compartment, drawing room, one 12 roomette, 3 double bedroom, 2 single bedroom, two 6 compartment, 3 drawing room, one 3 compartment, 1 drawing room lounge on each train, and one 8 section, 2 compartment, drawing room that ran Nashville-Miami on the DF and Louisville-Miami on the SW. The observation cars probably were different, but they were cut off in Jacksonville sb, and sent back to Chicago the same day. The diners may have been different also, and ACL showed two diners Chicago-Jacksonville on the DF and only one on the SW (perhaps it was a diner-kitchen dormitory pair? ACF built 5 and Budd built 6 for PRR in 1949).
If my math is correct, based on the 1950 shedules you posted, The CM's actual round trip running time was 60 hrs 35 min. Add to this layovers of 9 hrs 35 min in Chicago and 2 hours flat in Miami for a total of 72 hrs. Thus this schedule could be handled by a single trainset.
On the other hand the SW and DF's round trip running time was 62 hrs 55 min with layovers in Chicago of 16 hrs and in Miami of 17 hrs 5 min, This resulted in a total "cycle" time of 96 hrs which is 24 hrs longer than the 72 hrs required to maintain an every 3rd day departure from each terminal.
Maybe I'm suffering from oldtimers disease because I can't see how it was possible for the SW and DF to run on their schedules with only a single trainset each. The fact that it's exactly one day, 24 hrs, longer than the requisite 72 hrs makes me suspicioous that I'm overlooking something obvious, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what it is.
First, let me say that I do not have a definite word as to just how the DF & SW managed to have the service that is shown in the February, 1950, Guide. From the equipment that is listed, I surmised a certain procedure that was followed; this procedure made it possible for the daily Chicago-Miami service to still be provided by only three sets of equipment.
Second, there were several variations after the Winter 1950 season, which ended with the SW and CM operating on alternate days after the Dixieland (the renamed Dixie Flagler) was discontinued. At the moment, I do not have any of the timetables or Guides which show these variations near my computer. Some of these did require two sets of equipment for at least one of the trains.
Now, a clue (perhaps) as to why I believe that it was possible for three sets to provide the service:
The observation cars and diners were cut off in Jacksonville in the morning, and thus could leave for Chicago that evening. (It is interesting that the ACL representation shows no diner south of Jacksonville, and the FEC representation shows only a Jacksonville-Miami diner for each train.) Remember that the sleepers at this time were heavyweight, and probably were from the Pullman pool.
I thought the trio ran with a single trainset each until 1957 when the Dixie Flagler was discontinued. After that time the CofM and SW operated on alternate days which necessitated the addition of a second trainset to each one. Al seems to be saying something a bit different in his prior post. Hopefully someone will confirm exactly what the set up was.
It was right about that 1950 time period when the City of Miami and South Wind added a second consist each operating over there routes while the Dixie Flagler remained a single consist. All three trains had lost there coach only status by that time and Pullmans were operated in each consist as well. At first the Pullmans were heavyweights and were soon replaced by lightweights as the car builders caught up with orders. When the two trains added a second consist they each had more service time in Chicago. According to the information I have the City of Miami was always the most popular of the three with the South Wind second and the Dixie Flagler third. There are photos of the City of Miami running with as many as twenty cars in the winter months. I will always regret not riding any of the IC trains when I had the chance. I believe the IC and PRR trains both provided every other day service over there routes when they added the second consists.
PS I dont have all of my Official Guides at the house and the closest I have is a June 1954 one. I have dozens in a storage locker along with RR magazines that I don't have room for in my apartment. I only keep a few guides and all of my hardbound RR books at the apartment in legal bookcases ( It keeps them clean and cuts down on the amount of dusting). I have to stop collecting or start shopping for a bigger place.
KCSfan Johnny, Before trying to figure this one out I need to see if I'm working with the right schedules. The closest OG I have to the time period of your question shows the following schedules for each of the three trains: CM - Lv Chi 8:10 am - Arr Miami 3:40 pm next day; Lv Miami 5:40 pm - Arr Chi 10:55 pm next day SW - Lv Chi 9:00 am - Arr Miami 4:45 pm next day; Lv Miami 12:50 pm - Arr Chi 6:55 pm next day DF - Lv Chi 9:10 am - Arr Miami 4:45 pm next day; Lv Miami 12:50 pm - Arr Chi 6:30 pm next day Are these the schedules on which your question is based? Mark
Before trying to figure this one out I need to see if I'm working with the right schedules. The closest OG I have to the time period of your question shows the following schedules for each of the three trains:
CM - Lv Chi 8:10 am - Arr Miami 3:40 pm next day; Lv Miami 5:40 pm - Arr Chi 10:55 pm next day
SW - Lv Chi 9:00 am - Arr Miami 4:45 pm next day; Lv Miami 12:50 pm - Arr Chi 6:55 pm next day
DF - Lv Chi 9:10 am - Arr Miami 4:45 pm next day; Lv Miami 12:50 pm - Arr Chi 6:30 pm next day
Are these the schedules on which your question is based?
CM: Lv Chicago 8:10 am, Ar Miami 3:25 pm the next day; Lv Miami 5:25 pm, Ar Chicago 10:45 pm the next day.
SW & DF: Lv Chicago 10:00 am, Ar Miami 6:25 pm the next day; Lv Miami 11:30 am, Ar Chicago 6:00 pm the next day.
henry6Johnny, you came closest by naming the major roads I would encounter...but I really didn't expect anyone to come up with the minor and sub minor ones...so it's your turn to ask.
When the one-night-out coach trains were inaugurated between Chicago and Miami in 1940, three sets of equipment were used, with each train being turned and started back to Chicago about an hour and a half after it arrived, in mid-afternoon, in Miami.
In the winter of 1950, the City of Miami was operated on this schedule, but the other two trains, the Dixie Flagler and the South Wind both left Chicago (still every third day) later in the morning, arriving in Miami later in the day than the City of Miami did–and left Miami for Chicago in the morning the same day, arriving in Chicago earlier than the City of Miami did. Yet, only three sets of equipment were needed for the Chicago-Miami service. There was still one arrival in, and one departure from, Miami each day.
How was this worked?
All three trains were coach and Pullman.
I am sure that Henry had a great day, even though he saw many places where much had been.
I did the trip and the report is below...Johnny, you came closest by naming the major roads I would encounter...but I really didn't expect anyone to come up with the minor and sub minor ones...so it's your turn to ask...for those of you interested please read on..
...here goes the itinery:
Left the house and drove NY17 built on the former DL&W roadbed and across the river from the former Erie (EL,CR, NS) crossin over the former LV at Waverly. Off the super hiway over to the southside of teh Susquehanna from Wellsburg to Elmira not only along the Erie but also taking in the former trolley row and powerhouse-station-barn on the way to Elmira...to Southport and onto the former PRR right of way to the Bulkhead then over to Pine City and trace the long gone Erie Tioga Division over Jackson Summit to Tioga Jct. PA. Then north to Lawrence and west on PA 49 crossing the NYC's Wellsboro and Jersey Shore branch (later PC, later CR, with Erie and EL trackage rights) in search of NYC Fallbrook road branch up to Ulyssis, PA. Meanwhile we ;picked up the Buffalo and Susquehanna (to B&O to Wellsville, Addison, and Galeton) at Elkland. We continued west to Westfield, bid adieu to the NYC and took the WAG to Galeton and west to Walton via Rt 6. A stop at the PA Lumber Museum gave us a chance to lookover a Shay and a Brookfield along with a steam logging crane which used to ride the sides of gons loading logs. At Coudersport we picked up the Coudersport and Port Allegehney into Port Allegheney where we went south along the PRR (PC, CR, NS, now WN&PA) to Keating Summit passing by the bridge abutments of the Potato Creek RR. A left turn had us following the Potato Creek abandoned roadbed to Austin where the abandoned B&S came up from Wharton. From Keating to Wharton there were probably at least a dozen lumber roads which wandered up the runs (logging days way of naming streams leading away from main rivers and where logs were cut and slid down hill until tracks laid). At Wharton we turned north to follow the B&S (B&O) toward Galeton. Gas drilling at Hull forced us up the main road to Cherry Springs instead of being able to drive the roadbed and switchbacks up the hill. From Galeton we went east on Rt 6 to Ansonia along the WAG (B&O) to Ansonia Jct. and the now walking path right of way of the former NYC (PC, CR) to Jersey Shore. East on Rt 6 through Wellsboro then 660 to Covington and back to the Erie (EL) Tioga Div. to Blossburg, Morris Run and Fall Brook. Over the mountain somehow and we ended up in Canton, PA along the PRR's Northern Central just south of town, then east on Rt 414 along the never railed roadbed of the Pittsburg, Binghamton and Eastern (no rails laid except in Canton where they displayed a large locomotive in the early 1900s). We picked up the Susquehanna and New York's former right of way before entering Monroeton, PA where we met the LV's Sullivan and State Line-Bowmans Creek line, now the Monroeton Shippers Lifeline which connects to the former LV (CR, NS, Sayre to Mahoopany now a shortline in the hands of Owego and Harford).
Gem of the day: CP&PA four wheel caboose on display at Coudersport. Beam marked "B&S GALETON" and arch bar trucks with B&S embossed in the steel.
Second gem of the day: Near Burrows south of Galeton: a 1920 circa MACCAR bus being used as a hunting camp.
So, to answer the question what railroads...a lot, some new, some old, some there, most no longer here.
Lehigh Valley, Reading, Erie, Lackawanna, Delaware & Hudson, B&O, PRR, NYC, West Shore, Northern Central.
Edit: add Jersey Central.
Johnny is along some of the right tracks...a little editing...take out Jersey Central, Reading, West Shore, and D&H. Keep the others but...some of their predeccessors and successors have to be taken into consideration plus connections. I will forgive all the names of the lumber company railroads simpley because there were so many and so many which changed names if not ownership so frequently that I cannot keep track. But see who can fill in the most information before this evening before I award the prize.
You've got the right idea, Johnny...small and smaller! I't too tired to do much tonight so I'll wait til tomorrow night giving an opportunituy to see how many roads, big, less big, and little and littler I was able to see, both operating and abandoned...long abandoned...I saw today!
But I will give you my parameters...west from Vestal, NY to Southport, NY, then into PA as far west as Port Alleghaney, south to Wharton, and back east again to Vestal, NY.
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