Well the last time I was in Texas was when I was about 6 months old...that was 66 years ago so I don't remember all the rivers names!
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henry6 Isn't the canard here that Texas and Arkansas are rivers and states!
Isn't the canard here that Texas and Arkansas are rivers and states!
Johnny
al-in-chgo Just a guess -- MoPac's Aztec Eagle, Chicago to Laredo, TX (which is all across TX in a north-south orientation).
Just a guess -- MoPac's Aztec Eagle, Chicago to Laredo, TX (which is all across TX in a north-south orientation).
passengerfanSince Johnny got part of it right I will let him ask the next question.
Oh, no! Here is one that is a bit different, but one of our contributor/contestants may quickly catch on to it.
In September of 1968, I rode a certain train, which was operating approximately on the same schedule it had in the fifties. I had a roomette, which made it possible for me to sleep without being disturbed either until I woke or until I was waked by the porter. We left the origin at ten at night (due at the destination the next evening at 7:45) I did not get to sleep until a little after midnight as we started across a mighty river. When I woke, the train had not only traversed a long section of the originating state, but had also gone across Arkansas and Texas. Yes, I have slept all the way across Texas in one night, and I was able to get breakfast in the diner at a late hour. After I woke, we crossed Texas again, crossed Arkansas again, crossed another state, crossed Arkansas yet again, and then crossed two more states before we reached the train's destination.
What was the railroad, what was the train, and what were its end points?
Deggesty passengerfanGosh if anyone has a copy of More Classic trains part of the information is there. I will give a little help. The three nine car train sets were for service as the AZTEC EAGLE operating daily in each direction between Mexico City and Nuevo Laredo. Each train set consisted of a Baggage Crew Dormitory Car, two second class Coaches, one first class coach, a dining car, three sleeping cars of two different configurations and one lounge observation car. This is also the way the trains were train lined in service. By the way they were built in 1952 and entered service that year. Now all that's left is to name the builder and country where built and name the nine sleeping cars. That part should be easy. Since Al suggested checking with Art Dubin, I looked in the second volume of his magnum opus--and found that Schindler Waggon AG, of Pratteln, Switzerland, built three train sets for NdM, to equip the Aguila Azeteca. However, I found no mention of the names of the sleepers, only that two on each set had sections and bedrooms, and the third one on each set had bedrooms and drawing rooms. I did find the names of the "observatory" cars--Club Maya, Club Mexica, and Club Olmeca, and the names of the diners--Tarasco, Tolteca, and Totonaca. According to Mr. Dubin, the Swiss trucks did not stand up to the wear and tear imposed by the Mexican track. Also, he states that the trains were placed in service on August 7, 1953. Johnny
passengerfanGosh if anyone has a copy of More Classic trains part of the information is there. I will give a little help. The three nine car train sets were for service as the AZTEC EAGLE operating daily in each direction between Mexico City and Nuevo Laredo. Each train set consisted of a Baggage Crew Dormitory Car, two second class Coaches, one first class coach, a dining car, three sleeping cars of two different configurations and one lounge observation car. This is also the way the trains were train lined in service. By the way they were built in 1952 and entered service that year. Now all that's left is to name the builder and country where built and name the nine sleeping cars. That part should be easy.
Since Al suggested checking with Art Dubin, I looked in the second volume of his magnum opus--and found that Schindler Waggon AG, of Pratteln, Switzerland, built three train sets for NdM, to equip the Aguila Azeteca. However, I found no mention of the names of the sleepers, only that two on each set had sections and bedrooms, and the third one on each set had bedrooms and drawing rooms. I did find the names of the "observatory" cars--Club Maya, Club Mexica, and Club Olmeca, and the names of the diners--Tarasco, Tolteca, and Totonaca.
According to Mr. Dubin, the Swiss trucks did not stand up to the wear and tear imposed by the Mexican track. Also, he states that the trains were placed in service on August 7, 1953.
TULUM
Al - in - Stockton
Re: "PS its been awhile since we have heard from Al in Chicago."
Hi, West Coast Al and all others.
I've been looking at the Quiz sites these past several months, but unfortunately most questions are waaay beyond my ability to answer or even speculate. Finally something came along that allowed me to add to the hubbub! - al
henry6 Deggesty passengerfanChiwawa Pacific? Spelling?) Dave, the accepted spelling has been "Chihuahua," which is pronouced as you spelled it. Johnny I pronunce it : Chew AH Hoowa.
Deggesty passengerfanChiwawa Pacific? Spelling?) Dave, the accepted spelling has been "Chihuahua," which is pronouced as you spelled it. Johnny
passengerfanChiwawa Pacific? Spelling?)
Dave, the accepted spelling has been "Chihuahua," which is pronouced as you spelled it.
I pronunce it : Chew AH Hoowa.
Al in Stockton
PS its been awhile since we have heard from Al in Chicago.
Well, I'm guessing since it was 1952 the maker was Budd in the USA (Philadelphia area).
Owing to the preponderance of sleeping cars I would think that at least some of them saw through service between Mexico City and Chicago,not just from the D.F. to the American border at Nuevo Leon -- since the train (Aztec Eagle in English; Aguila Azteca in Spanish) offered through service over the MoPac.
OTOH if the equipment ran only between Mexico City and Monterrey, I'll also guess that similar streamlined equipment was bought to be part of "El Regiomentano", a fast train between between Mexico City and Monterrey. I don't know any of the cars' names in either case.
All that is gone now, sadly, except for some tourist runs and perhaps a mixed train or two.
daveklepper I don't have the research material at all handy, and would probably have to explore the web (might be a fruitless search) to find National de Mexicano history. I know European self-propelled railcars were built for a private railroad with lots of scenery in the western Mexican pennisular, but that isn't what the question refers to. Chiwawa Pacific? Spelling?) I think the translation was done with a sense of joy and accomplishment, so it was a reward, not a punishment. May all good deeds be treated similarly henceforth and forever, Amen.
I don't have the research material at all handy, and would probably have to explore the web (might be a fruitless search) to find National de Mexicano history. I know European self-propelled railcars were built for a private railroad with lots of scenery in the western Mexican pennisular, but that isn't what the question refers to. Chiwawa Pacific? Spelling?)
I think the translation was done with a sense of joy and accomplishment, so it was a reward, not a punishment. May all good deeds be treated similarly henceforth and forever, Amen.
daveklepper Better he should just ask the next question!
Better he should just ask the next question!
But, he came through with a new question, which I trust you will answer immediately.
CRI&P GOLDEN ROCKET cars
VALLE VERDE -GREEN VALLEY
VALLE VISTA - VIEW VALLEY
VALLE MAR - OCEAN VALLEY or SEA VALLEY
EL CAFE -THE CAFE
EL COMEDOR - THE DINING ROOM
LA COSTA - THE COAST
LA JOLLA - THE JEWEL
LA PALMA - THE PALM
LA QUINTA - THE INN
LA MIRADA - THE DWELLING
THE SP SET
VALLE RIO GRANDE - RIO GRANDE VALLEY
VALLE DEL SOL - SUN VALLEY
VALLE IMPERIAL - IMPERIAL VALLEY
EL CAFE FRONTERO - THE FRONT CAFE
LA FONDA - THE SMALL RESTAURANT
MONTE SANTA RITA - MOUNT SANTA RITA
MONTE SAN JACINTO - MOUNT SAN JACINTO
MONTE SANTA CATALINA - MOUNT SANTA CATALINA
MONTE CHIRICAHUA - MOUNT CHIRICAHUA
LA GALERIA - THE GALLERY
My question is three train sets were built in a European country for service in Mexico. Name the train they were built for who built them and name the sleeping cars and types of sleeping cars?
I was planning on taking the car names to the office this AM where I have four beautiful young ladies who are all fluent in Spanish and have the answers when I return. Some of the Spanish I know such as Valle Verde in English would be Green Valley. I should have the rest before noon including the proposed SP cars. Then I will pose a question that should have everyone diving for research material.
passengerfan I believe the trains you are talking about were the jointly owned SP/CRI&P Golden Rockets. There were to be two train sets one each owned by each road. Only the CRI&P train set was built by Pullman Standard. They were to have entered service between Chicago and Los Angeles in late 1947. The RI train set was completed as follows: 820 Baggage 24 Crew Dormitory Car 347 VALLE VERDE 48-Seat Leg Rest Coach 348 VALLE VISTA 48 - Seat Leg Rest Coach 349 VALLE MAR 48 -Seat Leg Rest Coach 412 EL CAFE "Fiesta" Coffee Shop Tavern Lounge Car 428 EL COMEDOR 36 Seat Dining Car 660 LA COSTA 22-Roomette Sleeping Car LA JOLLA 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car LA PALMA 12 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car LA QUINTA 4 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room Sleeping Car LA MIRADA 2-Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Observation. The RI trainset made one trip to Los Angeles for promotional purposes and never carried any revenue passengers under the Golden Rocket name. The idea was the two train sets would operate on a 39-3/4 hour schedule to match the Super Chief and City of Los Angeles but it was never to be. The SP never completed there train set and the schedule could not have been met without ATS on the SP portion of the trackage from Tucumcari to Los Angeles. Instead the Golden Rocket cars went into Golden State service still lettered for the train that never was the Golden Rocket. PS I just finished the final tax return for a client this afternoon so will have more time on my hands until the mad house starts all over in January 2010. Its been an especially long tax season this year and I have never had so many clients on extension as this year. I have a feeling this is going to become a permanent state for taxpayers with more and more going on extension from April 15 to October 15.
I believe the trains you are talking about were the jointly owned SP/CRI&P Golden Rockets. There were to be two train sets one each owned by each road. Only the CRI&P train set was built by Pullman Standard. They were to have entered service between Chicago and Los Angeles in late 1947. The RI train set was completed as follows:
820 Baggage 24 Crew Dormitory Car
347 VALLE VERDE 48-Seat Leg Rest Coach
348 VALLE VISTA 48 - Seat Leg Rest Coach
349 VALLE MAR 48 -Seat Leg Rest Coach
412 EL CAFE "Fiesta" Coffee Shop Tavern Lounge Car
428 EL COMEDOR 36 Seat Dining Car
660 LA COSTA 22-Roomette Sleeping Car
LA JOLLA 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
LA PALMA 12 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
LA QUINTA 4 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room Sleeping Car
LA MIRADA 2-Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Observation.
The RI trainset made one trip to Los Angeles for promotional purposes and never carried any revenue passengers under the Golden Rocket name. The idea was the two train sets would operate on a 39-3/4 hour schedule to match the Super Chief and City of Los Angeles but it was never to be. The SP never completed there train set and the schedule could not have been met without ATS on the SP portion of the trackage from Tucumcari to Los Angeles. Instead the Golden Rocket cars went into Golden State service still lettered for the train that never was the Golden Rocket.
PS I just finished the final tax return for a client this afternoon so will have more time on my hands until the mad house starts all over in January 2010. Its been an especially long tax season this year and I have never had so many clients on extension as this year. I have a feeling this is going to become a permanent state for taxpayers with more and more going on extension from April 15 to October 15.
Now, since you named the cars (I didn't ask for this item), you must translate the names.
For those interested the SP GOLDEN ROCKET train set though never built did have the following names selected.
NO number baggage Dorm car
VALLE RIO GRANDE 48 Seat Leg Rest Coach
VALLE DEL SOL 48 Seat Leg Rest Coach
VALLE IMPERIAL 48 Seat Leg Rest Coach
EL CAFE FRONTERO Coffee Shop Lounge Car
LA FONDA 36 Seat Dining Car
MONTE SANTA RITA 22-Roomette Sleeping Car
MONTE SAN JACINTO 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
MONTE SANTA CATALINA 12 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
MONTE CHIRICAHUA 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car
LA GALERIA 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Observation
Deggesty passengerfan Johnny You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question. Al - in - Stockton The Train that Never Was I think that all followers of this thread know of the C&O’s plan to inaugurate a day train between Washington and Cincinnati. To make this possible, the C&O ordered new locomotives, many cars, including sleepers that would not be used on this train, but on various overnight trains. When the B&O learned of the plan, the Cincinnatian was launched, using equipment that the B&O already had.. It was not long before the B&O learned that there was no real market for such a schedule, and their train was moved to the Detroit-Cincinnati day run, which had been successful. The C&O learned from the B&O’s experience, canceled its proposed deluxe train, bought some of the cars it had ordered, and allowed other roads to buy those that the C&O would not be able to use. About the same time, two other roads planned a joint train that would run tri-weekly, using two sets of equipment (each one owned by one of the roads). Eleven cars were built for one railroad; no cars were built for the other railroad–and the train was swept away before it ever came into being (the cars that had been built were used on an existing joint train). What were the two roads? Which one had the cars built? What was the Train that Never Was? What train were the cars used on (with the name of the Train that Never Was on the letterboards)? Why was the train swept away? Johnny
passengerfan Johnny You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question. Al - in - Stockton
You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question.
The Train that Never Was
I think that all followers of this thread know of the C&O’s plan to inaugurate a day train between Washington and Cincinnati. To make this possible, the C&O ordered new locomotives, many cars, including sleepers that would not be used on this train, but on various overnight trains. When the B&O learned of the plan, the Cincinnatian was launched, using equipment that the B&O already had.. It was not long before the B&O learned that there was no real market for such a schedule, and their train was moved to the Detroit-Cincinnati day run, which had been successful.
The C&O learned from the B&O’s experience, canceled its proposed deluxe train, bought some of the cars it had ordered, and allowed other roads to buy those that the C&O would not be able to use.
About the same time, two other roads planned a joint train that would run tri-weekly, using two sets of equipment (each one owned by one of the roads). Eleven cars were built for one railroad; no cars were built for the other railroad–and the train was swept away before it ever came into being (the cars that had been built were used on an existing joint train). What were the two roads? Which one had the cars built? What was the Train that Never Was? What train were the cars used on (with the name of the Train that Never Was on the letterboards)?
Why was the train swept away?
Just for information. I believe Metro North makes a practice of running only mu cars (all three lines) around the loops to equalize wheel wear. Diesels probably have wheel wear equalization by moving trucks around under the locomotives at Harmon. Non-powered coaches are not that critical, including the cab-cars. Any comments from someone more familiar with the situation than I am?
In 1962, the UP had two 6-6-4 sleepers, American General and American View (A.C.F., 1950), rebuilt to 4 sections, 6 roomette, 4 double bedrooms, 1 small snack section, for service on the Butte Special?(Salt Lake City-Butte). But, the names apparently were not changed.
I can’t find any other rebuildings of just two cars.
passengerfan Each road remodeled two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars for there own named trains, they only operated on the owning roads tracks from beginning to end of each run.Each road had two sets of equipment to maintain overnight service in each direction for thes named trains. Is that enough information to help. Al - in - Stockton
Each road remodeled two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars for there own named trains, they only operated on the owning roads tracks from beginning to end of each run.Each road had two sets of equipment to maintain overnight service in each direction for thes named trains. Is that enough information to help.
In 1956, Great Northern had two of its 16 duplex roomette, 4 double bedroom Glacier cars (Oberlin Glacier & Harrison Glacier, P-S, 1947) rebuilt to 8 duplex roomette, 2 double bedroom, buffet lounge cars that were given the names Manitoba Club and Winnipeg Club, for service on the Winnipeg Limited. But, didn't this train run on CN rails into and out of Winnipeg?
Deggesty passengerfan Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to? Al - in - Stockton Al, am I right in understanding that the cars each road had remodeled were for its own train, or was there one train operated jointly by the two roads? Johnny
passengerfan Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to? Al - in - Stockton
Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to?
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