The BMT had one Pullman-built subway-elevated aluminum train, built as an experiment about 1935. The "Little Flower" saw it in for coupler replacement at Coney Island shops and ordered it donated to the scrap drive. It proved when operating that elevated trains could be much quieter. Possibly used PCC resilient wheels. Its nickname was "The Gren Hornet>"
The BMT also had one Clark Equipment Company experimental aluminum PCC car, the only North American PCC not built by St. Lous, Pullman, or Candian Car and Foundry. It was built shortly after the first 1935 standard PCC's arrived from St. Louis as a replacement for one Brooklyn car that was diverted to Pittsburgh as a demonstrator and stayed there. The St/ Lous cars were 1001 - 1099, and 1001 is restored and operating at the Branford, CT. musuem. The aluminum car was numbered 1000. In 1957, when Brooklyn streetcar service ceased, 1001 was already at Branford, and 1000 eventually went to Kingston, NY as part of the museum there. I heard a rumor that because of detioriated condition, it was scrapped. Too bad,.it pioneered standee windows.
Third Avenue Railway. later Third Avenue Transit, had home-built aluminum 551-600. double-end Peter Witts, used almost exclusively on Broadway-42nd Street, with their steel 601-625 Corten cousins. They all went to Brazil in 1948, and a few have been preserved there, one operating at a museum.
The Cincinnati and Lake Erie "Red Devils", later on LVT's "Liberty Bell" and Crandic were aluminum. A few have been preserved, one at Branford.
Texas Zepher passengerfan the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver And ugly cars they were/are. Very strange roof profile.
passengerfan the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver
Al - in - Stockton
NH Dan'l Webster, articulated
The model trains industry seems to have produced models of aluminum cars on PRR Broadway Limited, NYC Empire State Express, MILW Olympian Hiawatha, SP Daylight, N&W unknown, and GN Big Sky dome car.
One of two Pullman aluminum cars at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair was sold to CGW in 1952, the observation sleeper George M. Pullman.
http://bpics.rubylane.com/graphics/shops/rafterroom/061209201.7L.jpg?80
http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/prg509.jpg
http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAC-8212.jpg
City of Cheyenne, the 1933 Pullman aluminum observation coach
http://photoswest.org/photos/00019501/00019534.jpg
Before the CN Turbos there was the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver
Al - in - Stockton.
B&O, L&N, MP, KCS, New Haven Comet, CN Turbo
passengerfanNo takers yet on the RRs that operated Aluminum lightweight streamlined cars. I came up with twelve. Al in Stockton
No takers yet on the RRs that operated Aluminum lightweight streamlined cars. I came up with twelve.
Al in Stockton
I'll start - the Union Pacific
- the G&MO with their Abraham Lincoln and Ann Rutledge train sets.
DeggestySome people do like oysters.
Johnny, it's clear Arthur Stilwell would eat oysters even from the Hudson River.
http://www.arthurstilwell.com/cannibalsoffinance/15obstructivetactics.html
Stilwell designed and Pullman built the 30-ton capacity wooden tank car in 1897 to bring live oysters to Kansas City. Possibly figuring it's good for the economy of Port Arthur and it proves KCP&G's reach in a palatable way.
"The Man Who Fenced the West" filed his ICC documents: "William Dearborn, doing business as Louisiana Navigation and Railway Company."
http://www.plbg.de/lexikon/personen/images/edenborn1871.jpg
Mike
wanswheel Johnny, here's something: "The Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company, organized in 1896 by William Edenborn as the Shreveport and Red River Valley Railway Co., was re-organized May 9, 1903, as Louisiana Railway and Navigation Co. It was known as the Edenborn Line and was completed and placed in operation October 1, 1906, as the short line between Shreveport and New Orleans. This line was owned outright by Mr. Edenborn, the only railroad in the U.S. owned by one individual."
"The Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company, organized in 1896 by William Edenborn as the Shreveport and Red River Valley Railway Co., was re-organized May 9, 1903, as Louisiana Railway and Navigation Co. It was known as the Edenborn Line and was completed and placed in operation October 1, 1906, as the short line between Shreveport and New Orleans. This line was owned outright by Mr. Edenborn, the only railroad in the U.S. owned by one individual."
the "Stillwell Oyster Car is interesting. It took me a moment to remember that the Kansas City Pittsburg and Gulf was the previous name of the KCS--and (I just discovered, in Railroad Names) the successor to the Kansas City Nevada and Ft. Smith. Were the oysters intended for Mr. Stillwell's own table? Some people do like oysters.
Thanks, Mike
Johnny
Deggesty I find it interesting that the L&A (1896) came into being before the LR&N (1903); did Mr. Edenborn, after helping found leave the L&A, it for the LR&N? In 1929, the LR&N became a part of the L&A.
I find it interesting that the L&A (1896) came into being before the LR&N (1903); did Mr. Edenborn, after helping found leave the L&A, it for the LR&N? In 1929, the LR&N became a part of the L&A.
It seems the re-organization of Stilwell's railroad required KCS to be under a trust for 5 years, headed by E. F. Harriman. In 1905, the shareholders returned to power and hired Job Edson.
http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/13.I.k.jpg Stilwell Oyster Car
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1121714 Edson's car
LIRR bought 3 of the KCS cars for the Cannonball Express (Loree, Edenborn and Edson).
http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/manhasset.html
When the Railroads had there lightweight streamlined cars built by the manufacturers they were constructed of Cor-Ten Steel, Stainless Steel and Aluminum my question is which RRs had cars manufactured of Auminum?
passengerfan Artur Stillwell was responsible for the building the RR that is known as the KCS and was its first President. Colonel Fordyce became the roads second President in 1900 Stuart Knott became the roads third President from 1900-1903 William Buchanan was one of the founders of the L&A and became the President of the KCS in 1904 Job Edson was President of the KCS from 1905 - 1918 and again from 1920 - 1928 until his death Leonor Loree was President of the KCS from 1918 - 1920 William Edenborn was one of the founders of the L&A and later became a President of the KCS Harvey Couch became President of the KCS in 1939 he was responsible for seeing the RR through the growth of WW II and following the war the rebuilding of the KCS into a modern RR system.
Artur Stillwell was responsible for the building the RR that is known as the KCS and was its first President.
Colonel Fordyce became the roads second President in 1900
Stuart Knott became the roads third President from 1900-1903
William Buchanan was one of the founders of the L&A and became the President of the KCS in 1904
Job Edson was President of the KCS from 1905 - 1918 and again from 1920 - 1928 until his death
Leonor Loree was President of the KCS from 1918 - 1920
William Edenborn was one of the founders of the L&A and later became a President of the KCS
Harvey Couch became President of the KCS in 1939 he was responsible for seeing the RR through the growth of WW II and following the war the rebuilding of the KCS into a modern RR system.
Your question.
Deggesty passengerfanGreat job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn. Al, surely it did not take longer than one time out to make your last post.Did your computer signal you that there was an answer, and take you away from a game? In 1948, Pullman delivered 8 each 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers to the L&A. They were named: Arthur Stillwell, Colonel Fordyce, Harvey Couch, Job Edson, Leonor Loree, Stuart Knott, William Buchanan, and William Edenborn. What was the significance of these men? Be as specific as you can. Johnny
passengerfanGreat job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn.
Al, surely it did not take longer than one time out to make your last post.Did your computer signal you that there was an answer, and take you away from a game?
In 1948, Pullman delivered 8 each 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers to the L&A. They were named:
Arthur Stillwell, Colonel Fordyce, Harvey Couch, Job Edson, Leonor Loree, Stuart Knott, William Buchanan, and William Edenborn. What was the significance of these men? Be as specific as you can.
Deggesty passengerfan In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to? Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum? Yes, Al, it's nice to have you back to perplex our minds. IC: Panama Limited–2 ea 4C-4BR-2DR, 2 ea 1C-1 DR-3BR Tavern Lounge, 12 ea 6S-6RM-4BR, 2 ea 18 RM, 2 ea 2C-1DR-2BR Observation Lounge UP: San Francisco Overland–42 ea 6-6-4 and 10 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945, according to Robert Wayner) C&NW San Francisco Overland–7 ea 6-6-4 and 4 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner) SP: San Francisco Overland–11 ea 6-6-4 and 2 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner) Golden State–11 ea 4-4-2 and 13 ea 6-6-4; these cars were split between SP and CRI&P; neither Car Names Numbers and Consists nor From Zephyr to Amtrak tells us how many were assigned to either road; perhaps since Pullman owned them there was no specific assignation until the split-up of Pullman itself. CR&P: see SP MP: Colorado Eagle–4 ea 6-6-4 AT&SFe: Chicago-Kansas City- Tulsa service–3 ea 6-6-4; California Limited–23 ea 6-6-4 Johnny
passengerfan In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to? Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?
In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to?
Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?
IC: Panama Limited–2 ea 4C-4BR-2DR, 2 ea 1C-1 DR-3BR Tavern Lounge, 12 ea 6S-6RM-4BR, 2 ea 18 RM, 2 ea 2C-1DR-2BR Observation Lounge
UP: San Francisco Overland–42 ea 6-6-4 and 10 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945, according to Robert Wayner)
C&NW San Francisco Overland–7 ea 6-6-4 and 4 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner)
SP: San Francisco Overland–11 ea 6-6-4 and 2 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner) Golden State–11 ea 4-4-2 and 13 ea 6-6-4; these cars were split between SP and CRI&P; neither Car Names Numbers and Consists nor From Zephyr to Amtrak tells us how many were assigned to either road; perhaps since Pullman owned them there was no specific assignation until the split-up of Pullman itself.
CR&P: see SP
MP: Colorado Eagle–4 ea 6-6-4
AT&SFe: Chicago-Kansas City- Tulsa service–3 ea 6-6-4; California Limited–23 ea 6-6-4
wanswheel Prosperity Special http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b39000/3b39300/3b39319v.jpg
Prosperity Special
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b39000/3b39300/3b39319v.jpg
passengerfan I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty 2-20-2 Santa Fe types and the route was PRR to E st Louis where the SSW took the locos to Corsicana where the SP took the train to Los Angeles. Al - in - Stockton
I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty 2-20-2 Santa Fe types and the route was PRR to E st Louis where the SSW took the locos to Corsicana where the SP took the train to Los Angeles.
You've nailed it Al. The Prosperity Special was made up of the first 20 out of a total 50 Santa Fe type oil burners that SP ordered from Baldwin. For an interesting account that's well worth the read do a Google search on Prosperity Special and click on the first entry that appears, Titus County, Texas History.
Mark
Southern Belle 7/29/68
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/8/1/6581.1144530000.jpg
I thnk Al in Stockton is right...er, they were Sante Fe 2-10-2's...but this wasn't the only time Baldwin pulled such a stunt as linking a whole order together for delivery, just the largest.
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KCSfan The Google map of Texarkana shows the KCS is entirely in TX as it passes through the city. There's a short connector that runs into the Union Station which straddles the state line. It appears that when making its station stop in Texarkana the front end of the northbound Belle would be in AR and the rear cars in TX.
The Google map of Texarkana shows the KCS is entirely in TX as it passes through the city. There's a short connector that runs into the Union Station which straddles the state line. It appears that when making its station stop in Texarkana the front end of the northbound Belle would be in AR and the rear cars in TX.
I rely extensively on the SPV atlases in my study of railroading (even to the point of copying appropriate pages before taking a trip), and I will be glad to see the last two Canadian atlases when they are published. They do have an advantage over Google and such in that they identify the railroads, and the on-line maps have an advantage in that you can enlarge the scale (to a certain point).
One more note in re the Southern Belle: I first saw the train one summer morning, in Baton Rouge, when it was still a true overnighter, and I was struck by the beauty of the paint scheme.
passengerfan KCSfan On to the next question. Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it. Mark I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty and they were 4-8-2s.. Its route was PRR to St. Louis an the Cotton Belt to Dallas MP to El Paso then SP to Los Angeles. Al - in - Stockton.
KCSfan On to the next question. Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it. Mark
On to the next question.
Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it.
Johnny,
I had completely forgotten that short Texas stretch of the KCS mainline (the old Texarkana & Ft. Smith RR). That's what I get for posting in the morning before I have my coffee and am not yet fully awake.
My 1937 OG shows the following: AR-TX State Line - MP 477.1, Texarkana - MP 486.9, Cass - MP 503.5, Bloomburg - MP 507.5, TX-AR State Line - 509.8
The 32.7 miles of line in TX is far longer than I realized.
DeggestyI can't remember for sure, but it the Texarkana depot was (I should say is since Amtrak's Texas Eagle still stops there) in Texas,
As I recall, from my brief stay in Texarkana in October of 1970, the station is in both states. Then, the ticket office was in Texas, and the benches were in Arkansas. Amtrak says that the station is in Arkansas, at 100 E. Front Street.
KCSfan Johnny, You wouldn't by chance have been riding the Southern Belle of the KCS between New Orleans and Kansas City. Parts of your narrative fit but then others don't. The mighty river you crossed would have been the Mississippi at Baton Rouge. I can't remember for sure, but it the Texarkana depot was (I should say is since Amtrak's Texas Eagle still stops there) in Texas, then you'd have crossed from AR into TX and back into AR upopn arriving and departing the depot there. The other two states that you crossed would be Oklahoma and Missouri. Mark
You wouldn't by chance have been riding the Southern Belle of the KCS between New Orleans and Kansas City. Parts of your narrative fit but then others don't. The mighty river you crossed would have been the Mississippi at Baton Rouge. I can't remember for sure, but it the Texarkana depot was (I should say is since Amtrak's Texas Eagle still stops there) in Texas, then you'd have crossed from AR into TX and back into AR upopn arriving and departing the depot there. The other two states that you crossed would be Oklahoma and Missouri.
It wasn't by chance; this trip was deliberately planned to add route miles to my list.
I find this travel a little more interesting than my two one-night (once in each direction) trips on which I slept across Tennessee five times, Georgia four times, and Alabama once.
And, there was the American bragging to an Englishman that Texas is so big that it takes a full day to cross the state. The Englishman responded, "Yes, we have trains that slow, too."
You wouldn't by chance have been riding the Southern Belle of the KCS between New Orleans and Kansas City. Parts of your narrative fit but then others don't. The mighty river you crossed would have been the Mississippi at Baton Rougeand the originating state would be Louisiana. I can't remember for sure, but it the Texarkana depot was (I should say is since Amtrak's Texas Eagle still stops there) in Texas, then you'd have crossed from AR into TX and back into AR upon arriving and departing the depot there. The other two states that you crossed would be Oklahoma and Missouri.
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