Is the train ever in a state outside the Northeast?
#2 With a name like that, it couldn't be!
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Is the train ever in New England?
#1! I'm going to have to say heavyweight based on what I believe you mean by heavyweight.
henry6 'I'm in the East, so you know if I'm thinking of a train, it has to be here....just saved you the first question of 20..
'I'm in the East, so you know if I'm thinking of a train, it has to be here....just saved you the first question of 20..
Al - in - Stockton
Henry, yes your turn. The new Century was christened by Beatrice Lillie wielding a bottle containing water from the Hudson River, the Mohawk River, Lake Erie and Lake Michigan. General Eisenhower spoke on the radio.
http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/prg481a.jpg
http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/speeches/19480915%20Remarks%20for%20inaugural%20ceremony%20broadcast.htm
Inaugural of NYC's 20th Century Limited?
Dave,
I had never heard of the RF&P's Blue and Gray but it certainly would have been a "two color" train. I actually had the Frisco's Black Gold in mind which Mike identified and we've moved on to another question.
Mark
The train was the RF&P's Blue and Grey, and it ran between Richmond and Washington and was the only RF&P express that was not interlined with either the SAL or the ACL. Blue and Grey were the main colors ot the Confederate Flag.
Nope
Budd's Pioneer Zephyr?
GM's train of Tomorrow?
Who spoke these words about what train, where and when?
"The spirit of a nation alone is not enough to preserve its position or even its freedom. Physical and inventive strength in its industrial structure, able to produce and deliver at all times all that is needed for the security and betterment of its people - that too is essential. And beyond that is demanded the will never to be content with the imperfect, always to be seeking improvement and increase in the ability to do every job well. Consequently, I am pleased to be here to witness a concrete evidence of the railroad industry's response to this twin necessity. For the _____________ is more than merely a train. To America and to the world, it symbolizes the forward looking attitude, the daring, and the vision that have characterized our country and its people in all their undertakings.
"Indeed it is a symbol of even a greater thing. It is a shining example of what can be accomplished by the partnership of ingenuity, brains, management and labor when freely and voluntarily associated together for the accomplishment of a definite purpose. I earnestly believe that you see pictured here today the future of America."
Mike
Bingo. That's the one I had in mind. The next question is yours to ask Mike.
If gold is a color, the Black Gold (Frisco), Tulsa to Fort Worth and Dallas?
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth28793/m1/1/
passengerfan Mark That's what happens when you don't get enough sleep. I really mean't to say southwest? Al - in - Stockton
That's what happens when you don't get enough sleep. I really mean't to say southwest?
KCSfan Al, No. If it didn't run east of the Mississippi it couldn't run in the southeast. Mark
Al,
No. If it didn't run east of the Mississippi it couldn't run in the southeast.
KCSfan passengerfan KCSfan Here's the new question. What was the "two color" train, the RR which operated it and its route? Mark Did the train operate east of the Mississippi River? Al in Stockton No. Mark
passengerfan KCSfan Here's the new question. What was the "two color" train, the RR which operated it and its route? Mark Did the train operate east of the Mississippi River? Al in Stockton
KCSfan Here's the new question. What was the "two color" train, the RR which operated it and its route? Mark
Here's the new question. What was the "two color" train, the RR which operated it and its route?
Al in Stockton
And to think in 1965 I rode the Southern Belle from Shreveport to Baton Rouge in a roomette. I was thinking the car originated in Kansas City but time dulls the memory and if there was a Shreveport-NO sleeper at the time that would have been the car I rode in.
Were there any intrastate routes in Arizona? That and Washington were next on my list to research followed by California. I saved CA for last as I expected to find quite a few routes on just the SP alone not to mention possible ones on the Santa Fe and UP. Do you know when the NWP sleeper route I mentioned was discontinued?
I'm expecting company any moment so it'll probably be much later tonight or tomorrow morning before I can post another question.
KCSfan Al, First I need to correct a mistake in my prior list. The Dallas-El Paso sleeper ran in the T&P's Westerner not over the MoPac which of course didn't go any where near El Paso. Since I live in Shreveport, shame on me if I missed a Shreveport-New Orleans car on a KCS train. Are you quite sure of this route as I remember the Southern Belle's sleepers were through KC-NO cars and the Flying Crow's sleepers didn't run to NO but were KC-Shreveport cars. If you can please let me know the years that the Shreveport-NO car operated which will possibly jog my memory. I couldn't locate any routes in Kansas or Oklahoma but since you didn't exclude those states I'll have to go back and do a more thorough search when I have the time. In the meantime here are some Minnesota routes: Minneapolis/St Paul-International Falls - NP's No's. 11 & 12 Minneapolis-Duluth - NP/s Twin Ports/Twin Cities Minneapolis-Duluth - Soo's No's. 62 & 63 The single Colorado route is: Denver-Grand Junction - Rio Grande's Mountaineer I think the following was discontinued prior to the time of your question but if I ever get to covering California routes I'd probably overlook it so I'll mention it now. San Francisco-Eureka - NWP No's. 3 & 4 Mark
First I need to correct a mistake in my prior list. The Dallas-El Paso sleeper ran in the T&P's Westerner not over the MoPac which of course didn't go any where near El Paso.
Since I live in Shreveport, shame on me if I missed a Shreveport-New Orleans car on a KCS train. Are you quite sure of this route as I remember the Southern Belle's sleepers were through KC-NO cars and the Flying Crow's sleepers didn't run to NO but were KC-Shreveport cars. If you can please let me know the years that the Shreveport-NO car operated which will possibly jog my memory.
I couldn't locate any routes in Kansas or Oklahoma but since you didn't exclude those states I'll have to go back and do a more thorough search when I have the time. In the meantime here are some Minnesota routes:
Minneapolis/St Paul-International Falls - NP's No's. 11 & 12
Minneapolis-Duluth - NP/s Twin Ports/Twin Cities
Minneapolis-Duluth - Soo's No's. 62 & 63
The single Colorado route is:
Denver-Grand Junction - Rio Grande's Mountaineer
I think the following was discontinued prior to the time of your question but if I ever get to covering California routes I'd probably overlook it so I'll mention it now.
San Francisco-Eureka - NWP No's. 3 & 4
I list in the 1960 guide a Shreveport 14-4 lightweight sleeper in each direction between there and New Orleans. Went back to L&A days from earlier guides of course using heavyweight sleepers.
One that everyone seems to miss in Washington State was the Seattle - Walla Walla sleeper that traveled from Seattle in the Mainstreeter to Pasco and was forwarded in a local NP train to Walla Walla.
Another one missed in the California section was the SP Owl sleepers between Fresno and Oakland and Fresno and Los Angeles at that time.
You are correct about Oklahoma and Kansas not having any intrastate sleepers. I have been unable to find any either.
I guess it is your turn as we have pretty well covered everything.
KCSfan Al, I started off working by states to answer your question only to find that I needed a 1959 or '60 OG to reduce the task to a manageable size. Here's as far as I got based on an earlier OG but I suspect some of these routes had been discontinued by the time you specified. Louisiana & Arkansas - None Missouri : St. Louis-Springfield and St. Louis-Joplin - Frisco's Will Rogers and Meteor St. Louis-Kansas City - Wabash's Midnight Ltd and City of Kansas City St. Louis-Kansas City - MoPac's Missourian Texas: Dallas-San Antonio - MKT's Katy Flyer Houston-Brownsville - MoPac's Pioneer Dallas-ElPaso - MoPac's Westerner Dallas-Houston - SP's Owl Ft. Worth-Galveston - Santa Fe's No's 101 & 9 Houston-San Angelo - Santa Fe's California Special Dallas-Amarillo - CB&Q's Texas Zephyr & No. 8 Unless I can find some more time to devote to it, I'll leave it up to someone else to come up with the routes in the remaining western states. Mark
I started off working by states to answer your question only to find that I needed a 1959 or '60 OG to reduce the task to a manageable size. Here's as far as I got based on an earlier OG but I suspect some of these routes had been discontinued by the time you specified.
Louisiana & Arkansas - None
Missouri : St. Louis-Springfield and St. Louis-Joplin - Frisco's Will Rogers and Meteor
St. Louis-Kansas City - Wabash's Midnight Ltd and City of Kansas City
St. Louis-Kansas City - MoPac's Missourian
Texas: Dallas-San Antonio - MKT's Katy Flyer
Houston-Brownsville - MoPac's Pioneer
Dallas-ElPaso - MoPac's Westerner
Dallas-Houston - SP's Owl
Ft. Worth-Galveston - Santa Fe's No's 101 & 9
Houston-San Angelo - Santa Fe's California Special
Dallas-Amarillo - CB&Q's Texas Zephyr & No. 8
Unless I can find some more time to devote to it, I'll leave it up to someone else to come up with the routes in the remaining western states.
I believe you covered the Missouri trains very well. You missed a pair of Louisiana sleepers between Shreveport and New Orleans on the KCS.
I was unable to find anything in Arkansas either. The one in Colorado was the only one I was able to find as well.
We still need more coverage on the other western states. You can eliminate Iowa,Nebraska, New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oregon, Utah, Nevada, and Idaho. That should make it simpler.
California had the Lark between SF and LA. Colorado had the Denver- Alamosa sleeper on the D&RGW Colorado and New Mexico Express, the name referering really to the San Juan narrow gauge connection which of course ran into New Mexico, while the sleeper did not. New York had the New York - Buffalo sleepers on the New York Central (Buffalo Night Express), the DL&W Lackawanna Limited, and the Lehigh Valley Black Diamond, but the latter two ran through two other states even though the terminals were in NY. Pennsylvania had the PRR's Philly-Pittsburgh sleepers, using the Steel City for at least part of the trip. Texas had Houston - El Paso and Houston - Laredo, and Dallas - El Paso, all involving the SP, the latter also the T&P but don't know the train names. Washington had Spokan - Seattle on the NP, GN, and I would guess the Milwaukee as well, but don't remember the schedules well enough for the trains. The Illinois Temrinal interurban may still have been running the St. Louis Peoria sleeper but probably not. But I think there may have been a drop sleeper from Chicago to Springfield on the GM&O's Owl. The NYC was running an Albany - NY setout and pickup sleeper in 1950, but it did not last until 1960. The NYC with the D&H there was a Grand Central - Saratoga Springs sleeper and a Grand Central - Lake Placid sleeper. At one time these were handled on the overnight Montreal Limited. There was probably a drop sleeper to and from Rochester and maybe for Syracuse as well from GCT, using the Buffalo Night Express. Also GCT - Menassa. The Illinois Central must have had a drop sleeper to Cairo or Champaign-Urbana on the Seminole. The PRR had a sleeper from Erie PA to and from Philadelphia, and I think it stayed inside PA. Part of its run would have been on the PRR's Northern Limited, or Northern Express if my memory is correct. Georgia had Atlanta - Savanna, probably ACL.
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