Conspiracy theory is a fascinating arena.
Just because a group of people works towards it's common best interest, does not prove a conspiracy. But a lack of proof does not prove that no conspiracy was in place either.
Personally, I find myself most likely to give groups or individuals who I see as highly intelligent credit for possibly having a second agenda. So in a way, it's complimentary.
charlie hebdo The US knew about the viral outbreak in Wuhan early in January, if not earlier. Yet only a quasi-ban on entry from China and later Europe and the UK were the inadequate responses. The negligence by this federal administration until late March is the largest factor in our partly avoidable disaster occuring.
The US knew about the viral outbreak in Wuhan early in January, if not earlier. Yet only a quasi-ban on entry from China and later Europe and the UK were the inadequate responses. The negligence by this federal administration until late March is the largest factor in our partly avoidable disaster occuring.
What you are saying is that the US should have followed Taiwan's lead and ignore the upper management of the WHO. With the recent announcement of the earliest COVID death occurring in Santa Clara county, the shutdown would have had to be put in place Jan 1 at the very latest, or requirement that everyone coming in from China be quarantined for two weeks after arrival - though the finding of viral transmission days before onset of symptoms didn't come for weeks afterward.
The biggest mess up in the Federal response was CDC's handling of the test kits coupled with the law that stated that the test kits could only come from the CDC.
I presume you are aware that Birx and Fauci gave a presentation to the Governors meeting in early February.
Very condensed from the jpoft website:
As of Wednesday evening, the number of coronavirus cases worldwide has topped 2.57 million, with some 178,500 deaths, 46,000 of which in the USA
but no recovered data:?
Overmod charlie hebdo He was even boasting on TV of how amazingly he "got it" and maybe should have been a virologist or physician of some sort. Please say he didn't do that ... oh, wait, it was in character, wasn't it. It would be nice if he'd actually get his own 'expert panel' together to advise him on what actually works, and then actually make statements every week about how the administration is watching things that should work. Including the usual sort of gentle disclaimer when 'well, we tried this and thought it would be good, but it seems to have dangerous side effects' ... I guess he thinks that bluster means strength but lack of full success means weakness.
charlie hebdo He was even boasting on TV of how amazingly he "got it" and maybe should have been a virologist or physician of some sort.
Please say he didn't do that ... oh, wait, it was in character, wasn't it.
It would be nice if he'd actually get his own 'expert panel' together to advise him on what actually works, and then actually make statements every week about how the administration is watching things that should work. Including the usual sort of gentle disclaimer when 'well, we tried this and thought it would be good, but it seems to have dangerous side effects' ... I guess he thinks that bluster means strength but lack of full success means weakness.
Even worse, as the doctor who warned about hydroxychlroquine, was removed from task force.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-treatment-vaccine-doctor-says-worry-about-trump-idea-led-to-ouster.html
charlie hebdo Overmod charlie hebdo He was even boasting on TV of how amazingly he "got it" and maybe should have been a virologist or physician of some sort. Please say he didn't do that ... oh, wait, it was in character, wasn't it. It would be nice if he'd actually get his own 'expert panel' together to advise him on what actually works, and then actually make statements every week about how the administration is watching things that should work. Including the usual sort of gentle disclaimer when 'well, we tried this and thought it would be good, but it seems to have dangerous side effects' ... I guess he thinks that bluster means strength but lack of full success means weakness. Even worse, as the doctor who warned about hydroxychlroquine, was removed from task force. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-treatment-vaccine-doctor-says-worry-about-trump-idea-led-to-ouster.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkU1ob_lHCw
243129 Even worse, as the doctor who warned about hydroxychlroquine, was removed from task force. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-treatment-vaccine-doctor-says-worry-about-trump-idea-led-to-ouster.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkU1ob_lHCw
Even worse, as the doctor who warned about hydroxychlroquine, was removed from task force. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-treatment-vaccine-doctor-says-worry-about-trump-idea-led-to-ouster.html
Accurate.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
EuclidGeorgia may lead by example.
And Georgia may lead by showng how many innocent people die!
I have been SIP since our governor stated that SIP should be done. I am fortunate as I am retired and have options on how to obtain food. I do NOT want to act recklessly and per chance, become infected and need health care in an overloaded system. Both my wife and daughter are nurses and TOO MANY health profesionals are DYING because of this virus. So lets stop argueing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and be concerned with the effect of our actions on others such as the medical profession.
EuclidGeorgia is raising eyebrows by deciding to reopen. Georgia may lead by example.
The problem is where are they leading - normal or the cemetary.
Kemp has never displayed sound judgement when making decisions. Making the wrong decision will erase anything that SIP accomplished and then deluge the health care system beyond any ability to care for the states population.
BaltACDThe problem is where are they leading - normal or the cemetary.
I am forced to see it (through a jaundiced eye) as a positive.
Seems the two extremes are determined to control the narrative, on one side you've got the people pushing to reopen everything, just so they can chase the almighty dollar. They are convinced that shelter in place is a farce and an unfair imposition on their inner "harvey hustlebuck"
On the other extreme, you have the overtly cautious, who are willing to stay the course, prioritize saving everylast life that is possible, who feel that reopening the economy is suicide.
Neither extreme is going to budge, absent undeniable proof to the contrary.
In the middle you have people that can see good and bad in both extremes.
I think the Georgia experiment will finally silence the conflict, and eliminate the bickering.
Hopefully there will be checks and balances in place if things turn for the worse. I look forward to the outcome.
Georgia can be the canary in the coal mine.
daveklepper ~SNIP~ As of Wednesday evening, the number of coronavirus cases worldwide has topped 2.57 million, with some 178,500 deaths, 46,000 of which in the USA but no recovered data:? I
~SNIP~
I understanf that point, and it is valid concerning the overall Coronavirus impact on the population, World or individual area.
But I believe the ratio brtween those recovered (only those treated counted) and the succumbed is a good measure of how well the health-care system (again World or individual area) is coping, and that is also importnt.
The future is discussed at
lhttps://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/22/1000315/podcast-post-coronavirus-pandemic-reality/?truid=95bb63d1e5ef40a
An excerpt:
My prediction? Atlanta will boil over with new cases, and the talking heads will blame the democratic mayor.
Convicted OneHopefully there will be checks and balances in place if things turn for the worse. I look forward to the outcome. Georgia can be the canary in the coal mine.
Kemp's political affiliation no longer believes in checks and balances or science for that matter.
Convicted One BaltACD The problem is where are they leading - normal or the cemetary. Seems the two extremes are determined to control the narrative, on one side you've got the people pushing to reopen everything, just so they can chase the almighty dollar. They are convinced that shelter in place is a farce and an unfair imposition on their inner "harvey hustlebuck" On the other extreme, you have the overtly cautious, who are willing to stay the course, prioritize saving everylast life that is possible, who feel that reopening the economy is suicide.
BaltACD The problem is where are they leading - normal or the cemetary.
These two factions are on opposite sides of the debate, but the most interesting part is that the SIP faction has a connected self-interest in the non-SIP faction's personal activity because that activity might spread infection that comes to land on members of the SIP faction. So, the non-SIP faction is not allowed to do as they want and say their business is their business. This collision of interests is likely to lead to violence between the two factions.
Also, the stress will be far greater between the SIP faction and the Governor of Georgia.
URL for the whole story:
Trump shifts from raising alarms to reopening; Poll shows few Americans support easing restrictions
The Trump administration has embraced a tectonic shift in its message about the coronavirus after weeks of raising alarms about the dangers of exposure to the virus in their effort to persuade Americans to stay at home.
President Donald Trump is now aiming for a swift nationwide reopening, and with that comes the challenge of convincing an unnerved population it will be safe to resume their normal lives, reports Zeke Miller.
AP-NORC Poll: A survey from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds Americans remain overwhelmingly in favor of stay-at-home orders and other efforts to slow the spread of the coronavirus. A majority say it won’t be safe to lift such restrictions anytime soon.
From Dave's link above:
"He [Larry Kudlow] said the White House is also considering asking Congress to provide liability protection for employers in case their workers or customers fall sick."
I saw that coming. That ought to be good for another $2-trillion of public funding. But of course it will be great stimulus (not). We need all the ways possible to spend money now to fix the economy. Everybody knows what a task it will be to find ways to spend money. We will dump it out of airplanes to re-seed the economy with prosperity.
Convicted One Conspiracy theory is a fascinating arena. Just because a group of people works towards it's common best interest, does not prove a conspiracy. But a lack of proof does not prove that no conspiracy was in place either. Personally, I find myself most likely to give groups or individuals who I see as highly intelligent credit for possibly having a second agenda. So in a way, it's complimentary.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I am waiting to see what happens with Georgia. What is unique in this is that lifting the lockdowns does not require the non-riskers to return to work and take risk. They are free to stay home. But they cannot tolerate the riskers going back to work because that could threaten the safety of the non-riskers. So the non-riskers see their constitutional rights as including the right to force the riskers to give up their right to return to work.
The reality of this entire situation - there is still more we DON"T KNOW about Covid-19 than what we do know.
We don't know if immunity is a lasting condition.We don't have a scientifficly proven successful treatment.We don't have a vaccine.We don't fully understand what is happening to those who contract and are debilitated by the virus versus those that are walking around in a asymptomatic condition.
BaltACD The reality of this entire situation - there is still more we DON"T KNOW about Covid-19 than what we do know. We don't know if immunity is a lasting condition.We don't have a scientifficly proven successful treatment.We don't have a vaccine.We don't fully understand what is happening to those who contract and are debilitated by the virus versus those that are walking around in a asymptomatic condition.
We also don't know whether the lockdowns and distancing/sanitizing are slowing the spread.
EuclidWe also don't know whether the lockdowns and distancing/sanitizing are slowing the spread.
Well, Georgia gets to be the nation's guinea pig.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Euclid BaltACD The reality of this entire situation - there is still more we DON"T KNOW about Covid-19 than what we do know. We don't know if immunity is a lasting condition.We don't have a scientifficly proven successful treatment.We don't have a vaccine.We don't fully understand what is happening to those who contract and are debilitated by the virus versus those that are walking around in a asymptomatic condition. We also don't know whether the lockdowns and distancing/sanitizing are slowing the spread.
Why don't you be the guinea pig? Your group can be called the "Business Trumps Death" group.
I think we are heading for a conflict with China. At the same time, we have Trump supporters and the Democrats heading for conflict. I think the course of these two conflicts will have them both arrive at about the same time. The conflict with China is the huge issue of whether China may have intended to cause harm. Trump is hovering on the verge of that conclusion. Peter Navarro is no doubt egging him on. That would be a monstrous charge. We would be outraged. We would make demands for reparations and give China ultimatums. Tensions would go sky high, and something would cause a spark.
The conflict with Democrats versus Trump and his supporters is the feeling that the two sides are pitted against each other not only in basic political ideology, but also correspondingly pitted against each other in how they view risk taking with the virus. For the most part, the democrats are the non-risk takers, and the Trump people are the risk takers. It also divides among young and old because the old are at greater risk, so they don't want to take any risk.
And the risks taken by one side can endanger the other faction, which are the non-risk takers. Risk takers want to go back to work. Non-risk takers say the risk takers are risking lives for capitalism. The non-risk takers now have the legal right to demand that the risk takers do not go to work. So it is as if Democrats suddenly have a legal right to force Trump supporters to obey the Democrats. That is exactly what this feels like. The virus is serving as the catalyst to propel these two factions head-on into each other. The virus has raised the stakes of the basic political disagreement, and so now they must physically fight each other.
Our conflict with China and the conflict between Trump supporters and Democrats may get violent about the same time, and that is likely to be about the time of the election. These two different conflicts are independent, spontaneous reactions to the virus pandemic.
EuclidOur conflict with China and the conflict between Trump supporters and Democrats may get violent about the same time, and that is likely to be about the time of the election. These two different conflicts are independent, spontaneous reactions to the virus pandemic.
The china crap is just a distraction of how ill-prepared this country is, esp. concerning health care matters. Why else do you think so many politicians want people to go back to work?
Euclid I am waiting to see what happens with Georgia. What is unique in this is that lifting the lockdowns does not require the non-riskers to return to work and take risk. They are free to stay home. But they cannot tolerate the riskers going back to work because that could threaten the safety of the non-riskers. So the non-riskers see their constitutional rights as including the right to force the riskers to give up their right to return to work.
I agree, it will be worth watching. Govenor that the Cheeto helped get elected heard him pitch the thought that the economy needs to be helped by removing the SIP restrictions and decided that his followers would be happy so he did. Yesterday, the Cheeto pulled the rug out from under him by saying that would be a dumb idea and too soon. I feel for the medical professionals who will bear the brunt of the burden of caring for the cases that result from the increase in cases.
Euclidbut the most interesting part is that the SIP faction has a connected self-interest in the non-SIP faction's personal activity because that activity might spread infection that comes to land on members of the SIP faction.
Another aspect.....so long as the shelter in place requirement is official policy, then jobs are protected.
If I feel I am at risk, and prefer to shelter, but the state is opening up and my employer wants me back at work...I face a particularly thorny decision.
This is like no one knows how thin the ice might be, so the prisoners are being marched out in front of the advancing column at gun point.
And, to paint a full picture, what if your employer has been a skeptic from day one, has felt that the shelter-in-place and isolation guidelines have been a farce, so he's been out there making contact, shaking hands, and sharing meals with goodness knows how many different people AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO....but now you are being compelled to come back and work under the same roof with this person? How is that "free to choose"? Sounds more like Russian roulette with someone else pulling the trigger.
Some news has come to light which boggles my mind. We have long been hearing about the possibility of the virus originating from the P4 biological lab in Wuhan. But the original explanation was that it originated from bats sold at the wet market. Now that origin seems to be dismissed because it is said that the wet market has never sold bats, and the overall conclusion now is that the wet market is not the source of the virus. So the focus is now on the lab as being the source of the virus.
All along, the lab has been referred to in oblique and faraway terms as though we don’t know much about it. But now comes the story that the U.S. was there funding the lab to some extent and working in it with the Chinese on coronavirus from bats. We were there along with an international consortium of scientists, and were experimenting with coronavirus from bats.
This astounding news is at least a couple weeks old and probably was available right from the start. Yet I have not heard a peep about it until yesterday. This news is stunning and it raises a lot questions since we must know a lot about that lab and the chances of the virus originating there.
EuclidSome news has come to light which boggles my mind. We have long been hearing about the possibility of the virus originating from the P4 biological lab in Wuhan. But the original explanation was that it originated from bats sold at the wet market. Now that origin seems to be dismissed because it is said that the wet market has never sold bats, and the overall conclusion now is that the wet market is not the source of the virus. So the focus is now on the lab as being the source of the virus. All along, the lab has been referred to in oblique and faraway terms as though we don’t know much about it. But now comes the story that the U.S. was there funding the lab to some extent and working in it with the Chinese on coronavirus from bats. We were there along with an international consortium of scientists, and were experimenting with coronavirus from bats. This astounding news is at least a couple weeks old and probably was available right from the start. Yet I have not heard a peep about it until yesterday. This news is stunning and it raises a lot questions since we must know a lot about that lab and the chances of the virus originating there.
Since we are getting into 'science fiction' or 'fictional science' why not throw Fort Detrick and their research into chemical and biological warfare into the mix. I wouldn't discount the Russian chemical and biological warfare units either.
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