The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
This looks to me like the Brighton Line, taken on a Sunday afternoon, since the express track rails seem less recently polished than the local track rails, and there is no express service here on weekends. (The B train.) I would say it looks like looking southward from the street overpass or the station itself at Courtelyou Road or Beverly Road. More likely Courtelyou. The train is obviousliy a Q, which is appropriate. But the equipment has me puzzled. Could it be an outing of Queens to Myrtle El Q-types on a fan or nostalgia trip with a Q sing added? Or does the shadow make R-44's or R-46's look like something different? Or did you do some photo editing on the train?
It is a (Q) train, but it was a weekday, but it was a couple of years ago, so the express track might not have been in use. LION was not standing on an overpass. Him was walking an avenue parallel to the line, and running up each dead end street to see what he could see... Him leaned over the fence and took a picture.
ROAR
Oops...Thanks Lion, that makes sense.
Since the car in the photo has tail lights over the headlights, it appears to be an R-68. Haven't they mostly been moved off the Q?
So it was a few blocks south of the Courtelyou Road station. Could the train have been R42 or R40M? If it was several years ago, that might be possible. (R42 and R40M are the same design for all practical purposes.)
I got confirmation from my TA freind that YOU are correct, and both D-train Stillwell tracks a stub end. Seems a mistake to me, since the classic arrangement gave more flexibility, but apparently the arrangements with the rebuilding of the station would now make it difficult to connect the track.
Lion, since you are good at maps, would like to share a track-map of your subway laoyout with us? If you need to post it on the MR Forum instead of here, then tell us when, and we will look for it there. Do you model both divisions and keep them separate? Are there specific junctions and stations that are included in your layout, reasonabliy accurate representations of such on the system? Also a roster of the model rolling stock, and what plans you have for the future.
TRACK PLAN OF LION (.pdf diagrams)
Apparently, you do not keep the two divisions separate but run the wider and the narrower cars on the same route? Is Coney Island used as a through station or as a terminal? Have you modeled the "train shed"?
All equipment is R-15 / R-22 type IRT stock. That is all that is available on the CHEAP,
Coney Island is a through station although there are tracks that end there. Yes a proper train shed will be built. I found some plastic material at Lowes that is cheap and will flex to the required amount. LION must still think on how to build this station.
The only subway yard that I know of that is as bucolic as this, possibly with a stream alongside, is Westchester Yard, off the Pelham Bay line ("6").
I suspect this is the north or northeast side of the yard.
But your R15-22 rolling stock is in several colors representing different periods, although possibly at one time all were seen at once. Grafitti for the period is one bit of prototype realsim that I too would avoid.
And through operation through Coney Island did exist on sunny Summer Sundays as I noted.
Bucolic? This is Coney Island yard. Here is more from moving train...
Well, a lot of trees have grown up since I was last there, when the predominant color was mud-brown and not green. I had been told that Coney Island Creek was filled in and here it looks like it has become a lake or at least a river, no longer a creek!
Lion, I appreciate the map. Your layout makes much more sense now. Your success with such little resources is a great source of inspiration for me. Thanks.
Thanks for posting these photos as well, it is quite fun to guess where. I've learned a lot!
Dave, the R42s and R40Ms had taillights and headlights next to each other horizontally.
OK, it has been 17-1/2 years since I saw any of that equipment, but I am glad I knew the location.
My guess that you are on the F platform at Stillwell looking northeast, and the train is a Q on the nearest upper level track.
Looking south on the northbound platform at Avenue H station, with a Q train approaching - OR if more than four or five years ago and on a weekend, with a D train approaching. The Brighton Line. Some trackwork in progress south of the station, on one of the southbound tracks. Because of the trackwork, not necessarily on a weekend, with the D running on a the local track as well as the Q because of trackwork.
Today, of course, the D has moved over to the West End. So there is the possibility that the B is running on the local track because of trackwork, and that means that judging just from the photo, the train could be a Q, B, or D, depending on when it was photographed! But not a "1" because you were not taking pictures when D-types and Steels ruled the Brighton and the equipment is certainly R40M or any later R-types.
I used the next station south, Avebue J, about 500 times in my life, beginning at age 2, 1934, with parents visiting my relatives living near by and ending up 1995 by several visits to an architect's office while working on the acoustics of a new building for Congregation Yetev Lev, in Williamsburg. And now I sometimes pray with their Jerusalem congregation which is distinguished by having morning minions starting as late at 11AM, a good safety net should I oversleep.
I AM curious as to when you took the photo and just what train it was!
BINGO!
Now one more:
This is also on the Brighton Line, probably taken from the rear window of a southbound regular Q train just approaching Avenue H station, with the two Transit Museum gate cars converted back from Q-types to something like their original configuration heading south on the express track. Or, instead of Q, possibly taken from a photographers' special. I think I may been on the gate-car train at the time you photographed it, depending when, like before 1996.
I *think* this photo is far more recent, but I'll not bet on it. I am standing on the southbound platform at Avenue H. There were many other fans with photos there as well.
Today's Photo is on the Canarsie LION!
The Canarsie Line photo is again on the upper level of B'way-ENY-Eastern Pkwy station looking north, the same spot as the much doctored photo with the purple trees that you showed earlier. The No. 3 train is on Livonia Avenue, possibly at the end of the line at New Lots Avenue, looking east from the west end of the platform. But just possibly the reverse, since there is an elevated yard beyond the end of service tracks if I remember correctly., if it is still there.
I've thought more about the "Q, B, or D" question for the photo taken south from the Avenue H northbound platform. I don't think it is a Q, because there is no splash of orange color on the face of the oncomming train, and while we would not expect to see a clear white Q on an orange backgroind, the dark blue of a D or B background would be less likely to show up at all.
Q is on a yellow background, B and D on orange. At least today.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
I stand corrected, the C and A are blue, and I should have remembered. So it is most likely a Q, since the yellow would not show up as easily as orange easily seen as white, Case closed, most likely a Q, and thanks for the correction.
Lion, you do know a lot about the system's signals. Is your system signalled with operating signals? If so which system do you use, IND-BMT or IRT?
IRT: Clear straight ahead, green over red IND-BMT, green over green
IRT Clear diverging, red over green IND-BMT, green over yellow
LION nose all about signals...
Block Signals:
Red = STOP
Yellow = Next signal might be Red
Green = Next signal NOT RED.
OLD IRT system is all but gone.
Except for Dyire Avenue LIne...
Red over Red = STOP
Yellow over Yellow = Diverging Yellow
Green over Yellow = Diverging GREEN
Yellow over Green = Mane Lion Yellow
Green over Green = Mane Lion GREEN
At Broad Channel there is a yellow over yellow over yellow which is a diversion into the siding, while yellow over yellow at that location would be a diversion to the southbound track.
Railroad of LION has lotsa signals, HOME signals at the interlockings are controlled by the turnouts, the block signals are controlled by train detectors and relays, but each relay or block has three or four signals in it and they are all wired together. No point in making my wires more complicated than they knead to bee.
I get it, that you follow IND-BMT pratice, which you say has taken over the IRT now except for Dyer Avenue, and I assume eventually that will be converted as well.
Is Broad Channnel the only example of three yellows? May there be others, such at the east end of ENY-Easterm Pkwy-B'way Jc.(J)?
About how many signals and how many turnouts in total on your system? And how many subway cars in total? And do you have work equipment in addition? And which is your favorite paint scheme for these cars?
Interlocking plant of LION has 36 levers.
Some levers work two switches. On layout of LION that, is that, but on a GRS machine each switch MUST occupy a position on the interlocking frame with its associated works, even if only one handle is required to move the pair., thus both switches must throw and both must report back that they have moved and are locked before the lever can complete its movement.
Figure about 50 switches on layout of LION. Him still building signals, figure about 200 signals by the time this beast is finished. Only six signals are controlled directly from the GRS machine, the rest are either block signals or are home signals controlled by the local switch motor rather than by the interlocking frame (as it should be done).
Here is layout of LION: Count the switches for your own self. (The more you click on it the bigger it gets.)
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.