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LION 2013

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 6:51 PM

Last week our Ridewithmehenry riders found it unique that the glass in the doors between the passenger cabin and the motorman's cab had a black border or frame around a clear glass to see right ahead to and through the front diaphragm door but the border prevented one inside the car from seeing the motorman no matter the angle.  Further amusing was the fact that on several of the trains...the L and A and S(A)....the motormen further blocked the field of vision by taping newspapers to the clear center of the window.   I understand they have gotten into trouble for what they were doing in their cabs, some accusations by some who have no idea about the job, but since the window no longer allow anyone from seeing the motorman, what are they really hiding?

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:38 AM

The weirdness of the ENY photo posting was due to Lion's "artistic" manipulation of his original photo.   I assure you, the panet is Earth and the leaves of the trees are green.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, October 24, 2013 8:58 AM

Those might be the R-46 cars, or the R-68 cars. The R-44s have all been scrapped, the 46s have a bit more area visible the 68s only a small 6x9 clear area for forward viewing. All of the newer cars R142, R143 and R160 class all have full size windows in the compartment door, but they are treated as I have said. You will not see the operating position, nor will light from the car interfere with the operation of the train.

It is against the rules for a Train Operator to cover the window. Some of the cars had a coat hook on the door which invited the T/O to cover the window with his coat. Those are gone from the new equipment.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 24, 2013 9:37 AM

Well, there is only one Smith - 9th, served by the G and the F.   In the past it was first served by the A, then the E, then both the E and the GG, then the F and the GG, then the D and the GG (the only line the D has NOT used regularly to Coney Island is the N-Sea Beach route, and it did use that in one direction 1-5AM once during work in the Eastern Parkway Brighton Line tunnels), then back to the F but the GG now the G.  And for a while only the G during the rush with the F running express, and long before that a period with only the GG during the rush and the D running express.  For most of its career it was the south terminal of the GG and the G, but not during rush hours when the D or F ran express.   And not now, except perhaps 1 - 5AM? 

It is an original-consruction sign, and is on the south platform for soutthbound trains, judging by the single tower in the background, with a lack of other tall buildings..

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:25 AM

Actually, that is on the northbound side...I took a pic of the same sign not too long ago.  Several unique things about Smith St. is that is it the highest station on the subway system and on the north end of the platforms you get a wonderful view of the Statue of Liberty surrounded by trees!   The work recently completed on the station is fabulous, a must see for every subway and architectural fan; it was just reopened earlier this year.  

The D line did indeed run the N route southbound this past spring but held the northbound schedules.  

I had not been to Coney Island nor Canarsie if over 60 years, nor the M line ever...but this year alone I've ridden all the south  Brooklyn and Queens lines including Coney Island twice to assure riding all routes in and out.  The M line, of course the former Myrtle Ave. el, was ridden in the open cars in my very, very, very youth and probably south on Myrtle Ave.  Now only the B train from Prospect Park to DeKalb has not been ridden along with the A train to Lefferts and the 3 train to New Lots need be done before moving to the surface lines of the Bronx.

What has been perplexing to others is the fact that the MTA has made, and appears to always be making, route changes.  We had one join us who was confused when I said we were riding the F train to Coney Island via Smith and Church because that was the B train when he grew up there not so long ago!   I know the M train was coming out of Church to Metropolitan Ave at one time but now runs from Met Ave to Forest HIlls  probably a scant two miles from each other!   Nifty stuff.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:32 PM

Except for a possible emergency rerout, the B never went to Smith-9th and Church.  He meant the D, which was swapped with B between Brigihton and West End not long ago.

At the north end of the system they swapped C with the B, with the former going to Washington Heights and the latter to the Concourse.   I have been told these are all moves to equalize loading on the different routes, so the correct intervales and number of cars is appropriate for a specific route and both ends.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:59 PM

CTA did a similar re-route in the mid-1990's.  The Lake-Dan Ryan route and the Howard-Englewood/Jackson Park routes were changed to the existing Lake-Englewood/Jackson Park (Green) and Howard-Dan Ryan (Red) lines.  These changes were also to equalize load factors and correspondingly improve equipment utilization.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 25, 2013 3:58 AM

Please note the correction to a previous posting.   There was no F train when the IND line to Church Avenue opened.  I am puzzled because I was certain I had typed A.   But thiings  do go bump in the night in the ME, and in any case the correction is now made, and what a variety  of roustes this one line has seen, A, D, E, F, G-GG!

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, October 25, 2013 9:31 AM

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, October 25, 2013 10:30 PM

Beautiful photo! I love the sky and lighting. Smith and 9th is the highest spot on the system, right? 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:17 AM

NorthWest

Beautiful photo! I love the sky and lighting. Smith and 9th is the highest spot on the system, right? 

This they say, but I am not so sure. It surely is the highest place in relation to the ground under it, but me thinks that stations on the Broadway Line (perhaps 137th Street or 181st Street) may be higher (albeit under ground) vis a vis Sea Level. Ground level there is around 285 feet. The adjacent IND line has long elevator shafts to take passengers to the street.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:27 AM

Brooklyn.

McDonald Avenue. The IND pops out of the tunnel, the original Culver line bent off to the left. For a few years it ran as the Culver Shuttle, but that too is now long gone. Just below the station (I am standing on the platform) is the famous Trainworld where at the LION buys subway cars for his layout.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 26, 2013 1:51 PM

Interesting that the steelwork, added for the shuttle service before the through "Culver Local,  Ditmas Avenue - Chambers Street  via Tunnel (and "Nassau Cut")" non-rush hours, and Culver Express, Ditmas Avenuie - Chambers Street, via Bridge to Nassau Loop, via Tunnel to Brooklyn" service quit, replaced by the shuttel, is still in place at the station.  Note that the ram p from the subway is four-tracks wide, with the switches to three traacks almost at the station.  There seems to be some argument regarding  connection of the shuttle track to the southbound local track.  I think the answer is that the steelwork was provided, but the switch and short tradk extensionn were never installed, and the shuttle track ended at a bummping block at the south end of the platform.

In the says when the BMT Culver trains "owned" the line,  and there was onlly one track installed on the ramp (installed in 1940, just after Unification) for equipment transfers and deliveries, it was connected to the northbound local track and got the straight through signal indication, with yellow shown for the regular run.  They did not allter the signal at the north end of the platform to show two indications, normmally, green ofer yelow would have been the IND and BMT signal (red  over green for the IRT), but just a single yellow indication.  Now there are two indicaations on the signal installed when the service was diverted to the IND and the subway, with the D providing Concourse to Coney Island service.   The F returned when Christie was opend and the D on the Manhattan Bridge and Brighton line.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 26, 2013 4:13 PM

PREVIOUS POST HAD A GOOF:   Steelwork and the shuttle track were added when the Culver Local was cut back from Coney Island to Ditmas Avenue, the Culver Express cut back from K|ings Highway  to Ditmas Avenue, and the rush hour Coney Island - 9th Avenue trains eliminated, repalced by the D and the Culver service to Ditmas Avenue.   The 9th Avenue - Ditmas Avenue shuttle came later, around the time of the Christie Street conenction opening, and the replacement of the D by the F on the Culver elevated structure Ditmas - Coney |sland, zero Nassau Loop service, and no Culver trains in the 4th Avenue subway..   

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:13 AM

Same Line, different location...

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:01 AM

With the absence of station designation signs on the wall, and the kind of track construction, I would guess this to be a PATH-H&M station.  Christopher Street?  Looks famlier, and I did spend a night there doing acoustical/sound system measurements September 1995.

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:16 AM

R train, 9th St.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:17 AM

The last pictures were of an (F) train at Smith 9th Street, and another at Ditmas Avenue.  I said this was the same line, but a different place.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:15 AM

Lexington Avenue and 63rd Street-under renovation for Second Avenue Subway?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:30 AM

At 9th Street Manhatan and at 9th Street in Brooklyn, in both places, the R train is in a four-track subway, with a local station, and pillars separating the local track from the express track, on both sides of the RofW, not an unperforated wall.   And ALL NYCTA stations have station designation signs on the outside walls.  The design and typography may vary, but the signs are always there.

If it is not Christopher Street, then just possibly Pavonia, or whatever it is called now (used to be Pavonia-Erie).   But it not an NYCTA station, not IRT, BMT, or IND.    I don't know of any LIRR or MN station that looks remotely like that.   I'll stick with Christopher Street, PATH.

As I also stuck with the Canarsie line photo.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:36 AM

Well, it *is* and IND station. It *is* as was said, on the (F) Line. It is as can be seen, undergoing a major renovation, and once finished the (Q) train will be across the platform. It is indeed the 63rd Street Station, and the construction is in benefit of the Second Avenue Subway.

And that is one heck of a DEEP station. And the new LIRR Grand Central line is BELOW that.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:52 AM

I am still convinced you have mixed up your photographs.   Like you did with the photo near the end of the L Canarsie Line with the IRT near Janius Station on Livonia Avenue going to New Lots Avenue in the distant background.

Look at the design of the mosaic of the orange stripe running along the wall.  That is certainly not post-WWII.   You won't convince me otherwise until you go back next summer and take another look.

It may not be the PATH station I think it is, but it certainly is not an NYCTA station.   I did ride through 63St and Lex twice, and I certainly would have noticed if it had been as marked a departure from normal contemporary NYCTA practice.   Another give-away.   Notice where the 4-car marker is with respect to the length of the station.   The station is not on a line running 600 ft trains, 10 60-foot cars or 8 75-foot cars, but a line running shorter trains, six or possibly 8 50-foot cars.

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:53 AM

Dave and Lion.  I rode the R train in Brooklyn up from 36th St. to 9th to get the G or F train.  I swear on a stack of tokens and  metrocards this is the R train pulling into 9th St, northbound with the small entrance to the G/F connection at the far south end of the station.  It is absent all kinds of signs, etc because of Sandy and others' storm damage, etc.  It was only about a month or so ago that my Ridewithmehenry troop was there; two Transit officers were walking the platform toward us at this point and greeted us and pointed the way to the G/F exit and saw to it that the station "agent" was able to give us full MTA maps at our request.  

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:03 AM

Henry, I respect your statement and give you credit.  If the storm damage removed the signs, I can understand.  I still don't understand the location of the 4-car marker (for a reverse, or southbound move yet!), but perhaps that is temporary was put in the wrong place by mistake.   And the 9th Avenue and 4th Avenue Station certainly was built before WWII (opened in 1915, before WWI, in fact).  And the track is slab-track, without the usual wood stub ties or ties of any sort, rail separated from concrete by an artificial rubber continuous pad.  This must be a post-Sandy type of track reconstruction that is new to the system.  But what happened to the service and ventilation openings to the center express tracks that I remember?   One had to duck to use them, but there were openings at one time.

And the Manhattan R-train station is at 8th Street, not 9th.    Apologies to LION and hats off to you, Henry!

And LION, in a sense you are correct, the F (and the G) are upstairs, in the same fare zone.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:16 AM
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:29 AM

Here is the unedited photo. If you hae any more questions, the LION will be happy to have you  over for lunch.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:38 AM

daveklepper
I am still convinced you have mixed up your photographs.   Like you did with the photo near the end of the L Canarsie Line with the IRT near Janius Station on Livonia Avenue going to New Lots Avenue in the distant background.

THIS ONE????

This is on the E 180th Street Station in da BRONX

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, October 27, 2013 12:00 PM

My location changes....there is no downstairs on the R platform....sign also points to F train to Queens.  So, this proves me wrong but makes my statement of storms damages more pertinent.,

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 2:15 PM

LION is correct, and I must apologize again.   Close inspection, now, indicates what looked to me like pre-WWI mosaic tile (installed by the skilled crafsmen of the period) is just exposed block discolored by storm damage.   And obviously, the trackbed hs also been replaced, probably since Sandy.  The signs cannot be wrong.   (Did LION remove them with his photo expertize for the first presentation of the photograph on the thread?  Somehow, I don't remember them in the photograph that I first saw, but then things do go bump in the night in the ME.)  And the marker may be in the wrong place, but the reason may be that it was found someplace and just locsted temporarily.    Or was it located by LION's skilled photographic manipulation?   Proably just located improperly, temporarily.    Now if someone else visits the station and photographs, will we suddenly see the wall station locaton signs appear?    Again, discounting storm damage, all NYCTA stations have wall station signs.   I do not know of any exception other than Stillwell Avenue and those elevated stations that have only island platforms and essentially no oiutside walls.    And the new station at Stillwell may have the signs, but the old one did not have exterior walls.

.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 5:28 PM

This station, deep as it is, was never troubled by Sandy. It is new work under construction. I'm not sure if it ever had a wall with tiles, or if they had been removed for the second avenue subway project.

Here is a 2010 shot of this location.

You can still see the finished tile work on the floor, but the red tile wall is gone, replaced with temporary wooden boards. When finished there will be a track in that place instead of the wall. Indeed, the track is already there, used for Broadway layups, but that is where the 2nd Ave Line will live.

Here is another photo from a moving train. Clearly the entire station shell was removed for the construction project.

In my photo you can see the row of hangers that held the old ceiling.

The [4] tag is correct for a train coming in the other direction, the tracks can be used in either direction if need be.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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