Well it be worth a try.
During a recent visit to Elkhart, Indiana, it seems some more work is beginning done on NYC 3001 - the circular sheet metal guard for the safety valves atop the boiler is now partially removed or installed, and the turret cover in front of the cab on the left side has its upper panel opened up. It also seems the smoke box throttle opening is now covered. Nice to see some work on the locomotive.
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It occured to me in the re-reading of some of this thread that the City of Elkhart, Mayor Dick Moore had one main objection to the restoration of NYC 3001 - his main objection to the restoration and operation of the locomotive was that if it was moved from the city location of its display to a place of restoration - that there would be a revenue loss to the city of ticket sales by visitors to the city owned National New York Central Museum. That the city income loss would be substancial.
Other than this revenue line item, I am not sure he really cared how long the locomotive was away from town for a return to operational condition. I believe a bid was submitted by the Milwaukee 261 restoration group.
It occured to me that if The New York Central Railroad Museum and the Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation were to approach The Museum Of Transportation in St. Louis, Missouri about the loan of the one other remaining New York Central 4-8-2 Mohawk NYC 2933 and if this engine were brought to display in Elkhart, the two engines together, well the NYC 3001 could be removed and restored off site by either the Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation or one of the several restoration groups that have offered this service to the city.
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Further, if this were to happen, the NYC 3001 could be used to pull excursions in both Elkhart and at St Louis for the benefit of both museums in consideration for the original loan of NYC 2933 to Elkhart.
It could also be a likely option that the second NYC engine could be restored by the group capable of performing the first restoration.
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Having the two engines on location in one place would also allow extensive reference of the one locomotive to the other for historic restoration purposes. Both NYC 3001 and NYC 2933 are almost identical 4-8-2 locomotives and were used thru Elkhart, Indiana on the Chicago - New York mainline.
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The St. Louis Museum Of Transportation has performed a similar locomotive loan of Norfolk & Western 2156 Y-6 to The Virginia Museum Of Transportation for a period of 5 years.
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Just some thoughts here -
Doc
RME CSSHEGEWISCH The intern may be passionate about restoring steam locomotives, but his passion seems to stop at his checkbook. How would you possibly know? Or are you saying that he should personally bankroll a huge chunk of the putative 3001 restoration cost, or else shut up about it? That would seem to be more than a little ridiculous.
CSSHEGEWISCH The intern may be passionate about restoring steam locomotives, but his passion seems to stop at his checkbook.
How would you possibly know?
Or are you saying that he should personally bankroll a huge chunk of the putative 3001 restoration cost, or else shut up about it? That would seem to be more than a little ridiculous.
It's just that the intern pontificates so much about this, that and the other steam locomotive that should be restored to no less than operating condition that makes it hard for me to believe that he's actually doing anything about any of them. His insistence on complete historical accuracy in the restoration of the "Flying Yankee" to operating condition (he insisted that the organization was wrong in installing a 6-567 engine instead of restoring a 201-A) suggests that he has a lot to say without actually doing anything.
CSSHEGEWISCHThe intern may be passionate about restoring steam locomotives, but his passion seems to stop at his checkbook.
The intern may be passionate about restoring steam locomotives, but his passion seems to stop at his checkbook. If you actually want to see a steam locomotive restored, it takes a bit more effort than just being a cheerleader.
Love your passion Doctor D!
And as the young Natalie Wood said in the classic film "Miracle On 34th Street"...
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe..."
And we know what happens next!
EITHER YOU BELIEVE OR YOU DON'T
At this point in the discussion one either gets "on board" the train or doesn't. Steam as a practical form of railroad motive power belongs in the past. However, when it comes to people pleasing enthusiasm! you cannot find a modern machine with more attraction than the beloved locomotive of railroad history the steam locomotive. Norfolk & Western and Union Pacific are not rebuilding steam for no reason. Neither do Cumbries & Toltec, Virginia & Truckee, and Durango & Silverton. Western Maryland Scenic and the 2-6-6-2 restoration are other examples of modern enthusiasm for railroad steam power.
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The great ocean liners like the QUEEN MARY and UNITED STATES and ill fated TITANIC also have this attraction, as do the mighty 16" gun battleships MISSOURI, WISCONSON, IOWA, and NEW JERSEY. Three masted sailing ships gathered some of the same charisma and magic, such as the 44 gun USS CONSTITUTION, the brand new French man o' war HERMONIE that just made its first Atlantic crossing this summer. Painfully build from scratch by the French people and sailed in Revolutionary War Splendor to our enthusiastic nation. And don't forget the CHARLES W MORGAN the last American whaling ship - Moby Dick chasin whaling ship. Burried in sand for the last 100 years and removed dry docked inspected then restored and fitted with new sails and sailed again this last summer - into the deep Atlantic Ocean! This ship was built in 1845! Check it out U-Tube where the might sperm whales came and played about the ship that 100 years ago harpooned their grandfathers to their death.
Further, lets not forget the bi-wing propellor airplanes of 1904 and the WWII bombers and fighters that draw the public commitment - enough so that they are dragging them up off the bottom of Lake Michigan to Chicago just to restore them to fly again.
Consider also the old mahogany speed boats, CHRIS CRAFT, HACKER, and CENTURY glistening in nickel plate and varnished wood. Have these not disapeared and could not each be built new in several weeks - yet people will spend thousands of hours to make the originals run again.
So why not railroad steam power?
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I can remember the many days I spent driving to Lansing Michigan on Saturday mornings just to work on the CHEASAPEAKE & OHIO "Berkshire" 1225. It was a joy to climb over its cold body wrenching on this or assembling that - and I remember installing the large 3/4" studs to hold the turbo generator platform on the boiler. The studs were new made with a taper thread into the boiler shell and staight thread for the nuts that held the cast steel platform - took about three hours to install this.
Day after day we worked with the joy of railroading in our hearts glad to spend our leisure hours at the work. Ten years went by - then to see the engine under steam and watch it move so effortlessly - to see it leap to life and run with uncanny grace!
To see my son yet unborn and then 16 years old watching PERE MARQUETTE 1225 cross a Michigan cornfield under its own power and see that child now a man behold the heritage of his nation - America - and of railroading of the past.
Well I had to stop a moment and look again - to see that locomotive which was so long stationary - that it had indeed finally come to fantastic life and performance - well it was something to behold - a machine so practical and beautiful - and so long hoped for.
And NEW YORK CENTRAL "Mohawk" 3001 is no different than this! It will run just as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow morning. That turbo generator will turn on, the injectors will work, the boiler pressure gauges will come up to pressure and show a reading, that throttle will open, the those pistons will move as if by magic - as will the stoker engine and tender also hold coal and water - and some man among you or yet unborn will take the right hand seat and reach for that quadrant and move her effortlessly again onto the main line where Century's raced!
You either get on board or you don't - PERE MARQUETTE 1225 has run again and NYC 3001 will run again also - all it takes is WORK! and -
AT THIS POINT YOU EITHER BELIEVE OR YOUR DON'T!
As to the canceled NKP 765 steam trip from Chicago, there could be many factors that led to its failure. 30 days' lead time is only one possibility. If the person organizing thought that alone was why, any future endeavors will probably also fail. Marketing is complex; a "build it and they will come" philosophy is true only in sappy movies.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Buslist Do we seriously think the people that wrote those letters will still be in positions of power in 2030, when the T1 is scheduled to be complete?
Do we seriously think the people that wrote those letters will still be in positions of power in 2030, when the T1 is scheduled to be complete?
With that logic why bother with the restoration of any other locomotive? Why bother with C&O 2716, or the Dixie #576, since they might not have rails or money to run on 'x' years in the future?
The world is always changing and you have to take that into account, but to not try at all is the biggest failure possible. I would rather see the the T1 Trust crash and burn and people learn from what was accomplished and built than to have it be another "Could've-Would've-Should've". Already they have resurected the literally extinct process of casting alloyed Box-pok driving wheels. That stands for something, even if the locomotive is never finished.
As the above user mentioned, the T-1 trust is there to build and confirm. They are not obligated to turn it into a regulary operating excursion locomotive.
But this is really off topic. Back to the 3001.
RME And, in any case, it needs to be remembered that the T1 Trust is not concerned with building the locomotive in order to run it. The idea is to replicate it as an artifact, and do the necessary engineering to confirm its performance. Any actual excursions with the thing are pure gravy.
And, in any case, it needs to be remembered that the T1 Trust is not concerned with building the locomotive in order to run it. The idea is to replicate it as an artifact, and do the necessary engineering to confirm its performance. Any actual excursions with the thing are pure gravy.
So how do we confirm its performance if we don't run it? Engineering calculations? Can be do without casting a single piece of metal.
BuslistDo we seriously think the people that wrote those letters will still be in positions of power in 2030, when the T1 is scheduled to be complete?
Perhaps not. Perhaps Steamtown NHS will no longer exist, or have different political priorities. Perhaps by that time EPA regulations will apply to large steam locomotives.
On the other hand, here are three examples who volunteered a place to run for the T1 'sight unseen', and why would there not be a similar number of people so inclined 15 years from now?
Reminds me of the old story of the farmer who had never seen a train. He assuredly said "she'll never start. No, she'll never start." The conductor called 'all aboard' and swung up, two blasts of the whistle, the engineer released brakes and opened her up, and away she went. The farmer, left behind, said "She'll never stop. Nope, she'll never stop..."
I am not particularly concerned with how the T1 will be maintained in service, where it can be run, or that its design and eventual construction will be done properly... all those are accounted for in the planning or design. Even if engineering sense doesn't prevail, I expect money and insurance coverage would get the job done. There seems to be some vast railfan conspiracy to make the T1 out to be a rail-wrecking hoodoo ... which may have been justified in some respects in the Forties but will not be true at all of 5550.
S. Connor The T-1 Trust has recieved offers from several operations to host the 5550 when it is finished. From their website: 3-26-15 5550 Has Rails To Run On The question most asked to the T1 Trust is, "Where will it run when complete?". We are pleased to announce that the Trust has received three letters of invitation to operate on various railroad lines around the country. We have received formal letters from Steamtown National Historic Site in Scranton, PA, the Steam Railroading Institute in Owosso, MI and the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad in Independence, OH. All three organizations have a long track record of handling mainline steam locomotives and can easily support the T1 locomotive operation when complete.
The T-1 Trust has recieved offers from several operations to host the 5550 when it is finished.
From their website:
The question most asked to the T1 Trust is, "Where will it run when complete?". We are pleased to announce that the Trust has received three letters of invitation to operate on various railroad lines around the country. We have received formal letters from Steamtown National Historic Site in Scranton, PA, the Steam Railroading Institute in Owosso, MI and the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad in Independence, OH. All three organizations have a long track record of handling mainline steam locomotives and can easily support the T1 locomotive operation when complete.
stdgauge Getting back on topic, another mainline steam locomotive back to operational status is not a good idea. Even after spending huge sums of money, you still don't have an experienced crew and a history with any of the mainline railroads, and THAT is one of the biggest obstacles that money cannot overcome. All dressed up, but nowhere to go. By some miracle, even if you have all of that in place, the railroads can change their policies on steam movements. Then what?
Buslist And of course Kelly Lynch had extensive market research to determine the real reason for low ticket sales.
Are you saying he did, or did not? Fact is he does have data. Fact is the trips did not sell out due to the very short lead time. 30 days was not enough.
It's a foregone conclusion that returning 3001 to steam would be a very expensive proposition. Whether that can ever happen is impossible to predict with certainty. Rick has a lot of important things to add to this conversation, even if his technical knowledge of steam and steam terminology is not perfect. There is no reason that 3001 can't be restored as a highly presentable cosmetic exhibit, even if operation is impractical or too expensive, and there is no reason she can't be protected in an enclosed shelter. Her custodians of the past generation have failed to do any of that. It would be nice to think the new mayor will behave more responsibly than his predecessor. An assured future for the 3001 means a significant amount of money, whether the ultimate goal involves operation or a more modest preservation plan, and I'm not convinced the City has it or can raise it.
If this means new ownership, or even a new location, for this important historic locomotive, then so be it.
There seems to be way too much ego here, and precious little determination or commitment to do what's best for the locomotive's future survival.
Tom
I have to say that Rick's post was most insightful. It seems to me from his post that he knows a great deal about the interworkings of the situation at the NNYC museum, and even through the political fallout he put his heart and soul into making the best of the situation. Obviously it became too much, and he refuses to return to that poisonous environment.
I would like to thank him for all the work that he did. I know how it feels to volunteer day after day on "the sinking ship", and no, it's not easy to keep going back.
However, while I do agree that the cost would be in the millions to restore #3001, I would correct some of his points.
1- The locomotive does have articulation, in the drawbar, tender trucks, pilot wheels, and trailing truck. The locomotive is every bit just as flexible as NKP 765, as the rigid wheelbases are very simlar to each other.
2-Missing boiler jacketing is no big deal. It's just sheet metal. An extra cost to fabricate? Certainly, however that cost would be small in comparison to the rest of the project.
After re-reading this thread, very few people were direspectful (if that) to the political situation that surrounds the National New York Central Museum and the 3001- ignorant, yes. But that cannot be helped, as many of us who would have the passion and drive to volunteer and start a fund drive for the 3001, live too far away to realistically do so. Many of us make our contributions to rail preservation by volunteering at our local organisations and sending donations to others when we can. (I have made a small donation or two to the National New York Central Museum, and hope to someday visit!)
We may have our pipe dream, but discusing it here is not meant to bash down upon the NNYC museum for not doing it. Some have, but that is not neccisarily the intent of the rest of us.
Respectfully,
S. Connor.
n012944 stdgauge n012944 What exactly makes you so sure that people would come out and ride it? The NKP 765 group just had to cancel a main line steam trip due to low ticket sales, and that was a trip out of Chicago. If a trip that originates out of a city that has over 10 million people living its metropolitan area can't sell enough tickets to make it, why would a trip succeed out of a much smaller area? Even if you were able to make a go out of it in the begining, would it have the staying power to still draw passengers once the "newness" of riding behind a NYC steam locomotive wears off? I have to correct the statement above. The real reason that FWRHS had low ticket sales was because the trip was announced and tickets put on sale only 30 days before the trip, per Kelly Lynch of the FWRHS. What is there to correct? The trip was cancelled as a result of low ticket sales, regardless of when they went on sale. The Fort Wayne group obviously thought there would be enough of a demand, or they wouldn't have put it on sale. They tried to make it work, even having a billboard on I294 advertising it. In the end, the ticket sales did not meet expectations.
stdgauge n012944 What exactly makes you so sure that people would come out and ride it? The NKP 765 group just had to cancel a main line steam trip due to low ticket sales, and that was a trip out of Chicago. If a trip that originates out of a city that has over 10 million people living its metropolitan area can't sell enough tickets to make it, why would a trip succeed out of a much smaller area? Even if you were able to make a go out of it in the begining, would it have the staying power to still draw passengers once the "newness" of riding behind a NYC steam locomotive wears off? I have to correct the statement above. The real reason that FWRHS had low ticket sales was because the trip was announced and tickets put on sale only 30 days before the trip, per Kelly Lynch of the FWRHS.
n012944 What exactly makes you so sure that people would come out and ride it? The NKP 765 group just had to cancel a main line steam trip due to low ticket sales, and that was a trip out of Chicago. If a trip that originates out of a city that has over 10 million people living its metropolitan area can't sell enough tickets to make it, why would a trip succeed out of a much smaller area? Even if you were able to make a go out of it in the begining, would it have the staying power to still draw passengers once the "newness" of riding behind a NYC steam locomotive wears off?
I have to correct the statement above. The real reason that FWRHS had low ticket sales was because the trip was announced and tickets put on sale only 30 days before the trip, per Kelly Lynch of the FWRHS.
What is there to correct? The trip was cancelled as a result of low ticket sales, regardless of when they went on sale. The Fort Wayne group obviously thought there would be enough of a demand, or they wouldn't have put it on sale. They tried to make it work, even having a billboard on I294 advertising it. In the end, the ticket sales did not meet expectations.
And of course Kelly Lynch had extensive market research to determine the real reason for low ticket sales.
An "expensive model collector"
Unless it was converted, the L3 Mohawks had 69 inch drivers, the same as the NKP Berkshires. Depending on the space between the wheels, one would think the driver fixed wheelbase of NYC 3001 would have to be close to that of NKP 765 which also has 69 inch drivers. The Berkshire, as we all know and greatly appreciate, has operated very smoothly on the Norfolk Southern mainlines in the Upper Midwest.
Unless I am missing something, which is entirely possible.
I reacted a bit too strongly to this latest post this morning. On reflection, I'm going to walk back a bit of the emotion.
Knowledge about what's required for locomotive restoration, or of its costs, is not in short supply here. I have to wonder a bit about the technical proficiency of someone who seems to think cleading is called the 'skin over the boiler', an L-3 has no lateral compensation, there is difficulty in producing (or profiling) 72" tires, that a rusted smokebox bottom makes a locomotive hopelessly expensive to restore, and what is actually required for a 49 CFR 230.17 1472-day inspection ... among other things ... but then dismisses someone who has actually successfully restored a large steam locomotive as an amateur.
I do appreciate, however, now having somewhat better knowledge about why some of the previously-incomprehensible decisions surrounding 3001 were made.
n012944Why do you think the NS would permit it to run on their major east west route? While the NS does permit steam excursions, they are with outfits that the NS is familiar with, and have demonstrated professionalism and reliability to be operating on NS's trackage. To think the NS will let them run just because they have a hot steam engine is wishfull thinking at best.
You are correct to question whether NS would allow the 3001 to run on the ex-NYC Water Level route. They won't. How do I know this? I was there from 1999 - 2005. I worked extensively on the whole museum proper. One of the projects was to undertake what was necessary to rehab some of the rail and road bed, and from scratch built a switch adding a spur into the museum grounds. This was necessary due to the fact that previous operators of the museum had neglected the trackage and ROW that runs along the freight house museum and at that time, was still connected to NS. I did this with community services workers and volunteers. BTW to my knowledge, the Lakeshore people also own this right of way.
We painted the GG1 into it's PC scheme because it was quick and easy, and yes the GG1 is there because 2 were purchased, and one was traded for the Mohawk. The distinction that the 4882 has, is it was the last running GG it was used to pushed a group of GG1s onto the scrap line when they were taken out of service. The E8 (4085) when I arrived there was a rust bucket and it still had it's NJ Transit coloring and a pink primer covering part of it. I utilized those Community services workers that had experience in body work to make the necessary cosmetic repairs installed all the glass (I was surprised to find the glass for the number boards haphazardly placed against a wall in the freight house) and painted to its former NYC glory. This locomotive was the lead that the pulled the final sections of the 20th Century Limited into Chicago.
The museum had a lot that needed done and there was never enough time, volunteers, and most of all money. While I was there the mayor at that time was a conservative that kept stealing from peter, the museums and other established venues in the city, to pay paul, just so he could utilize it to build a skating rink that no body uses, and to say he was "fiscally" responsible. He was responsible for my losing my position at the museum in part.
As to the 3001, here's what I recollect. During my tenure at the museum, there was at least 2 attempts to convince the museum to allow the Mohawk to be restored to running condition, and both of those proposals consisted of 3001 be taken off site, restored, and used for a period of time then returned. At that time, 2003/2004, I did my home work, because every time one of these pipe dreamers came out of the wood work, they'd bandy about how they have the money to spend on the locomotive to get it up and running, but it needed to go elsewhere to have it done. Good luck getting it back when they were done wearing it out again.
In 2011, when a group approached the museum and the city to restore the locomotive again, I reached out to the mayor and asked that they use cooler heads to address the rebuilding. I suggested they talk to three entities about what it takes to move, rebuild, and maintain a large locomotive like the 3001. Those entities were: The Union Pacific, the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, owners of the 765, and of course NS. In 2003/2004 we did seriously concider the proposal before us, and here's how far we got. When we talked to NS they said in no uncertain terms, "that locomotive will never touch our rails." Would anybody like to guess why? The wheel base, it's 95 ft 11.5 in., it's a 4-8-2, meaning the drive wheels are fixed axles, meaning there's no articulation, so if the curves in the Water Level Route were still the same as they were under steam there wouldn't be a problem, but they aren't they're tighter. That's the main reason. Also, the following was critical to the 3001s rebuilding: a.) to have ALL of its stay bolts replaced. b.) the entire boiler's super heater tubes and associated tubing needed to be replaced. c.) The tender for this locomotive has been drastically altered and the amount of coal it can carry is much smaller. d.) The stoker, conveyer tube and associated needed to be replaced/rebuilt. e.) If I remember right, the smoke box needs major repair, it was rotted through. f.) Due to the locomotive sitting, the valves and pistons will need major servicing. g.) One thing almost nobody knows about is that the wheels of a steam locomotive have steel tires, and these have to be a certain thickness to pass an inspection. Who’s making 72 inch steel tires these days?(thus the need to contact the UP). Also, there is Federal Railway Association certification involved with getting a steam locomotive back on the tracks. Inspections are needed and certain aspects of the locomotive have to pass those inspections. An example of a possible problem arising is the thickness of the steel in the crown sheet, that is a part of the roof in the fire box (the failure of this is catastrophic and will kill). I believe this flaw was discovered during an inspection on Nickel Plate 765, owned by the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, adding several thousand dollars to the cost of rebuilding 765 the last time it was done, which I think was around 2004. Also correct me if I'm wrong but if this locomotive is to pull passenger cars does it not have to be certified by Amtrak as well? What about modern signaling equipment and modern hook ups for the required diesel locomotive etc.?
In 2003/2004, I also looked up what it cost the NYC to build the L3 in 1940. If my memory serves me correctly, it was in the area of $450,000 1940 dollars. So in 2003/2004 dollars that equates to about $6,000,000 so taking into account that a lot of the locomotive is there maybe $4 mil. is a more representive price for restoration. I think $2.5 mil. is low balling and it certainly wouldn't allow for the craning, and trucking the locomotive out of the museum proper.
Having said all of that. The "missing" parts were in the two exMILW reefers that are somewhere on the lot, they used to be parked next to the 3001. If there are items on display in the museum, that tells me that someone after I left, has gone through those cars and pulled those items out. The same with the "skin" that is supposed to be over the boiler, it also was stored in one of the cars on site. As for the bell it should be in the museum if it's not then somebody better be asking where it is.
So, due to the circumstances that required me to leave the museum, I have not been there, nor do I desire to go there. In fact, I refuse to do any business within the city of Elkhart if I can help it. Those that are running the museum apparently have no desire to further anything along unless it's done by volunteers. Which are hard to come by to be sure. I read this whole thread and other than some who have visited, I have not read of any one person saying they approached the Lakeshore people about getting some kind of fund drive started. I haven't read that anyone is volunteering there. What I do read here is the same thing I dealt with at the museum when I was there, and continue to observe all these years afterward, it's all talk and no do. You all want somebody else to restore the 3001 so you can see it go down the rails. I was one of those people that did, and regardless of the blood, sweat, and tears I put into that place it wasstripped away due to politics. So good luck on your pipe dream, I'm out.
kgbw49What it was all about on the New York Central - bringing black ink to the bottom line...
Seems as though nothing has changed. At least not in the former mayor's office anyways.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
What it was all about on the New York Central - bringing black ink to the bottom line...
Too bad this one wasn't saved somehow...IC 2613...
Perhaps the best hope for it to ever run again is if Jerry Joe Jacobsen is somehow able to acquire it for his Age of Steam Roundhouse Collection. He does not have a 4-8-2 in his portfolio of steam. At least there no matter what it would be well cared for, which seems to not be the case in Elkhart per Dr. D's report.
Dr D Why is this such a strange concept to them? If they ran excursions from Elkhart to Chicago tourists would come from all over the world to Elkhart to ride it!
Why is this such a strange concept to them? If they ran excursions from Elkhart to Chicago tourists would come from all over the world to Elkhart to ride it!
What exactly makes you so sure that people would come out and ride it? The NKP 765 group just had to cancel a main line steam trip due to low ticket sales, and that was a trip out of Chicago. If a trip that originates out of a city that has over 10 million people living its metropolitan area can't sell enough tickets to make it, why would a trip succeed out of a much smaller area? Even if you were able to make a go out of it in the begining, would it have the staying power to still draw passengers once the "newness" of riding behind a NYC steam locomotive wears off?
Why do you think the NS would permit it to run on their major east west route? While the NS does permit steam excursions, they are with outfits that the NS is familiar with, and have demonstrated professionalism and reliability to be operating on NS's trackage. To think the NS will let them run just because they have a hot steam engine is wishfull thinking at best.
It does not appear as though the city of Elkhart has a lot of extra money, and to spend some of it on a "if build it and they will come" wish doesn't sound like the best use of the city's limited resources.
Dr. D,
Thank you for your report. It's so sad that nothing more has been done and the outlook is bleak. Fans of the New York Central dream of the day that they will see a living, breathing example NYC steam.
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