Elkhart, Indiana has a real opportunity to do something spectacular here.
First the town was a major repair shop for the New York Central Railroad and the skills remain with the people to maintain and operate a historic steam program. Take for example the number of Recreational Vehicles manufactured in Elkhart County, these companies line the Indiana Turnpike. The skills and abilities for this industry I would argue are the heritage of the New York Central Railroad.
The four track main line and right-of-way of the Great Steel Fleet flowed from Chicago to New York right thru Elkhart, Indiana, that's right the "Empire State Express" and the "Twentieth Century Limited" in all seven section flowed thru Elkhart every day for over 40 years. All were serviced and passed on their way by Elkhart citizens. The New York Central station is directly across the tracks from NYC 3001 and today astute rail travelers may still observe the Central steam heritage as they pass by.
Third, the funds required to restore NYC 3001 are readily available from a number of sources including Elkhart's own fundraising if they even bothered just to create a website and resource gathering base "Fund Operation of NYC 3001" would gather much MONEY even if it was not the major restoration fund source.
For example Milwaukee Railroad 261 - the group who acquired and operates that city's last truely powerful railroad steam locomotive came to Elkhart and offered to also restore and operate NYC 3001 several years ago at no cost to the city of Elkhart. Mayor Dick Moore sent them away empty handed because he simply could not understand or see how these type of engines are restored and operated.
Fourth, Elkhart is the outlying town from Chicago, Illinois with its millions and millions of people just waiting to have a chance to come to Elkart and ride a historic and operational steam locomotive like NYC 3001 - this is an outstanding and sustainable population base for a truely heroic railroad locomotive operation like NYC 3001. Something like Owosso, Michigan with it's Project 1225 who also generated the funds to completely rebuild a turntable and roundhouse, coach yard, station and museum featuring monthy steam excursions. The tourist flow into the Owosso community and its popularity are outstanding. I recall the Governor of Michigan not only riding PM 1225 but declaring to this day "it one of Michigan's major tourist attractions." Check the Michigan web site!
Something heroic for the "Sagamore Of The Wabash" to think about!
Fifth, Elkhart, Indiana is sustaining itself "as a struggling working class community" - it is in fact a gorgeous Victorian town with large stately homes built upon the Elkhart and St. Joseph Rivers. With not only a world class railroad passing thru but a world class Indiana Turnpike also. The New York Central now Norfolk And Southern run through town and are rebuilding the 4 track mainline again out of Chicago - it's a sweetheart American rail city featuring two Amtrack trains and should be looking for a rebirth as such.
An Elkhart first class historic steam railroad could generate such enthusiasm as it has in Owosso Michgian. Owosso has managed to maintain itself because of this as a small American city with a truely functional "downtown district" like we all knew and loved in the 1940's. Seems to me that some of this would be obvious to a city mayor with a REAL civic vision! Watching a historic and TRUELY significant railroad locomotive rust to oblivion along with a city downtown is a fools play - be it a personal or a communal activity!
Yes, Elkhart has painted the NYC 3001 steam locomotive on a large city mural in the center of its downtown - maybe its time to do something more with this civic vision than just a mural. If your not going to use NYC 3001 then give up your lease on it and allow it to be sold to some group that will - why let the scrappers and vandals get it while in your care Elkhart?
kgbw49 - "I guess we'll have to see if SLIM and NONE have left Elkhart on the 3:10 for Chicago! And if Mayor Dick Moore is going on the train with them!"
Doc
Quite the juxtaposition between 3001's situation in Elkhart and 765's down the road in Fort Wayne. 3001 is definitely a thoroughbred - in a perfect world it would really be something to see steaming through Indiana at 40 mph on the The Thoroughbred of Transportation's former NYC main. Certain steam locomotives just look fast even standing still. 3001 is one of those. I think it is the combination of the long clean-lined boiler barrel over the four sets of drivers, coupled with the way the cab kind of hangs back over the single axle Delta trailer truck, almost like the wind is blowing it back. it just looks like a locomotive that is in a hurry to go somewhere fast. Given what is going on with CP-NS and the lack of traction for an organized restoration effort in Elkhart, unfortunately it looks to be that the chances are between Slim and None and Slim left town on the 3:10 to Yuma. But would it be a great locomotive to see running again if the stars aligned, pulling a 21st Century Limited excursion? Most definitely!
Given the party affiliation of Moore's successor, it seems unlikely restoring and operating 3001 would fit in with his agenda. Maybe he will sell it to you? Otherwise it may well head to the scrapper in a budget-cutting orgy.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
City of Elkhart mayor Dick Moore was defeated in the past November 2015 elections. Mayor elect Tim Neese former Republican legislator was elected Mayor of Elkhart, Indiana and is to take office January 1st. Changes in the leadership of the 23 city departments to be effected and 5 department heads are to leave by December 31 including Moores daughter Vicci Moore head of the Human Resources Department.
Mayor elect Tim Neese was a Republican member of the Indiana House of Representatives from 2002 thru 2014. Formerly a four term member of the Elkhart City Council before election to the state house. Neese was head of Elkhart County solid waste managment prior to running for mayor of Elkhart and was also senior assistant to former Secretary of State Ed Simcox.
Representative Neese recieved the highest award from the Governor of Indiana the "Sagamore of the Wabash." He authored several bills before the legislature including HB 1024 on "Protection of Private Real Property," and HB 1026 bill on "Offences Against Law Inforcement Animals." He co authored HB 1109 "Sales Tax on Recreational Vehicles" and HB 1351 "Welfare Matters; Drug Testing." He co authored resolution HR 16 "Urging the legislative council to assign to the appropriate committee the study of the need for costs, benefits, and impacts of a wilderness preservation system on state public lands."
Tim Neese is married with three children and lives in Elkhart. He is graduate of Ball State University, a board member of the Elkhart YMCA, a member of the National Council of Enviornmental Legislators, an instructor at the Rick Mount Basketball Shooting School, and a member of St. Thomas The Apostle Church.
This news constitutes a change in Mayoral heavy handed leadership of the City of Elkhart New York Central Railroad Museum. Mayor Dick Moore had been and was the primary blockage to several attempts for the future operation and restoration of New York Central 4-8-2 Mohawk steam locomotive NYC 3001. Unfortunately the momentum of the restoration staff of the museum was entirely lost under Moore. It is uncertain if the new mayor is even aware of the steam locomotive or the past controversy surounding the restoration and operation of the famed passenger engine NYC 3001.
A recent visit to the museum showed a very skeleton staff present. Examination of NYC 3001 shows new paint on much of the locomotive including relettering of the left side of the engine cab. Most of the running gear is untouched and intact the boiler sheathing is removed and the boiler painted for protection. The turret coverings were missing on one side and external boiler appliances are removed. Turbo generator is in place, missing are safety valves, whistle, bell and external boiler piping. Otherwise the engine is truely "all there" the last surviving example of over 600 locomotives - and the only remaining modern New York Central passenger power extant.
Let's hope this governmental change portends good things for the New York Central Railroad Museum and the potential restoration and operation of NYC 3001.
Farewell Mayor Dick Moore we'll be see'n ya!
Dr. D
To give Al Perlman his due, he was NOT in favor of a merger with the Pennsylvania. In his opinion it made no sense, two 'roads merging which essentially paralelled each other. Perlman WAS in favor of a "point-to-point" merger with someone, anyone, but not with the PRR. He was overruled and had to make the best of it.
In the end he was right, although I doubt he got much satisfaction from an "I told you so!"
Perlman's fiduciary and ethical obligations did not extend to mere locomotives. They extended to his public, his constituent workforce, to his board, and to investors. It must have made some sense to scrap assets that were effectively bereft of operational value in order to recover some of their material value. The rest is sentiment and historical interest.
CSSHEGEWISCH,
Thanks for the post, makes me wonder what team your playing for?
Al Perlman took over after a corportate struggle that lead visionary New York Central Railroad CEO Robert Young to blow his brains out in his parlor with a shotgun. I really wonder what was going on in those days with that company?
What was behind the corporate merger in 1968 that combined two of the largest railroads in America? The New York Central and the Pennsylvania, into a union so successful that it was quickly followed with a questionable bankrupsy and loss of assets that almost brought down the western world with bank failures. The Fedral Govenment had to step in and guarantee the bank loans that saved the nation and thats how the government created ConRail, aka "consolidated eastern railroads."
Check out the book Riding The Pennsy to Ruin, A Wall Street Journal Chronicle of the Penn Central Debacle. Edited by Michael Gartner and published by Dow Jones & Company, Inc., Princeton, New Jersey.
Public Utility Commissioner James McGirr charged the new Penn Central Transportation Company with "a pattern of neglect bordering on contempt for the public."
I think it is pretty clear that what happened in the 1960's - 70 was close to the banking scandel that almost brought down the nation in 2008.
Al Perlman was a major player and his attitude about preservation of a New York Central "Hudson" or "Niagara" was disgraceful. He was about as interested in steam locomotives as he was in a "toaster" or a "washing machine," and I for one won't venerate him on a railroad forum dedicated to "preservation of railroad steam locomotives."
Thanks to him some of the greatest historic railroad treasures of American history were entirely lost.
So "sing me the song" of the glory of President Al Perlman! Maybe we can adapt it to some of to the glory of the accomplishments of Mayor Dick Moore of Elkhart, Indiana! Todays enlightened leadership of this famous American city!
Let not their GREATNESS go unsounded!
Dr D NYC 3001 has outlived NYC President Al Perlman and all those bent on the distruction of "The Great Steel Fleet."
NYC 3001 has outlived NYC President Al Perlman and all those bent on the distruction of "The Great Steel Fleet."
A rather gratuitous slur on Alfred Perlman and those who remembered that the New York Central Railroad was first and foremost a business and did their utmost to keep that enterprise running as an ongoing business operation.
Thanks, updated that post.
-S. Connor
S. Connor -A Three-cylinder, Most likely the SP 4-8-2 at Pamona. -SP 4460 (lost daylight), the war-baby sister of 4449.
-A Three-cylinder, Most likely the SP 4-8-2 at Pamona.
-SP 4460 (lost daylight), the war-baby sister of 4449.
The SP Three-cylinder is 5021 a 4-10-2 Southern Pacific type.
S. Connor-One of the freedom train locomotives (Complete with paint scheme)
Wouldn't take much money to make up a set of graphics that would fit 4449 now that she's had her 15-year...
All this talk makes me wonder.... the general consensus is that we NEED a NYC Mohawk riding the rails again.
It might be worth starting a new thread, but what else do we just HAVE to have running?
2-3 years ago #1 on my list would be a big boy, but thats been fullfilled. So here's what I think: (In no particular order)
-Pennsy GG1
-A Three-cylinder, Most likely the SP 4-10-2 at Pamona.
-A rebuild of NYC Hudson
-The PRR T-1 rebuild (once complete)
-One of the freedom train locomotives (Complete with paint scheme)
These are just the first that come to mind....Now if my name was only Bill Gates.
Have a good one,
S. Connor
A consummation devoutly to be wished Dave!
Another poster, Dr. D, mentioned a possible Conrail steam program years ago that died a-borning. When I think about it and the times it doesn't sound so crazy. Norfolk-Southern had a steam program, as did Union Pacific, and CSX was hosting steam runs at the time as well. It goes without saying all were and are great attention-getters for the host 'roads, so it doesn't suprise me the head honcho at Conrail gave it some serious thought.
It didn't happen of course, but imagine the possibilities!
Oh, and if Metro-North needs some favorable publicity maybe they should re-introduce the bar cars!
Remember, people riding the bar cars ALWAYS wave back at people trackside!
Can't imagine why.
A program like this would great for the operating peoples' moral. MN needs all the favorable publicity it can get. It would require complete outside funding, however. Once it is successful on MN, the pressure will be on LIRR to change their policy, and the G5 will be able to return to LI!
A Mohawk running up the old New York Central Hudson line? Wouldn't THAT be something!
I'm not sure what Metro North's attitude is toward steam. I do know that the LIRR policy at this time is no steam at all. Maybe no-one's asked Metro North yet?
UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANES AND WITH TOTAL OUTSIDE FUNDING ASSURED, YOU MIGHT TALK METRO-NORTH INTO ONE
AND THEY DO HAVE THE TRACK WHERE A MOWHAWK COULD SHOW ITS STUFF, THE HUDSON NORTH OF CROTON-HARMON & THE BEACON TO MILFORD CONNECTING LINE, FORMER NEW HAVEN MAYBROOK LINE
I HAPPEN TO THINK IT IS EXACTLY WHAT MN NEEDS.
AND ESSEX IS NOT TO FAR AWAY WITH AMTRAK A FRIENDLY CONNECTION.
FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS, THEY COULD LEND IT TO THE LIRR.
Man thats depressing, guess the mayor needs to have an " accident "soo we can repo the 3001
I NEVER KNEW THAT CONRAIL WANTED A STEAM PROGRAM
Man thats depressing, guess the may or needs to have an " accident "soo we can repo the 3001
Dr. D:
I Googled Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation and found info that appeared to be from 1999-2001, with nothing newer. Is there any more current contact information?
Tom
Tom,
Here are some facts you asked about concerning the NYC 3001.
NYC 3001 is owned by Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation who leases the locomotive and rolling stock to the National New York Central Railroad Museum. Currently the lease was signed in 1987 for 100 years for $1. The lease has a long list of conditions regarding the leased equipment that must be met.
In 1976 the Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation was started by Bob Spaugh who originally owned the current National New York Central Railroad Museum (aka Elkhart Museum) building and purchased it from Miles Labratories when they made Alka Seltzer and Flintstones vitimans on that site.
Bob and his wife ran a novel theme restaurant at the location, which incorporated authentic old NYC passenger cars as part of the dining room experience. This was called the "Freight House Restaurant."
The Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation (aka The Foundation) ran steam excursions in the 1977's to Middlebury and Shippshewana using a former Buffalo Creek and Gauly steam locomotive which was later acquired by one of these on line towns. This engine BC&G #13 is now preserved operational in Sugarcreek, Ohio at the Age Of Steam Roundhouse.
The Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation through the efforts of Bob Spaugh collected several Pennsylvania RR GG1 locomotives including the one used on the Robert Kennedy funeral train. This locomotive PRR 4903 was traded to the city of Dallas, Texas, for the former NYC 3001 Mohawk in 1984. This steam locomotive was moved to the Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation museum/ Bob Spaugh's Restaurant in Elkhart in 1984 by Union Pacific Railroad and Conrail.
Conrail was interested in having a steam program like CSX with C&O 614. Bob and the foundation were contacted by Conrail CEO Richard Sanborn about moving NYC Mohawk 3001 to the Conrail Shops in Reading, PA for an operational overhaul. Conrail Senior Vice President R.B. Hasselman was sent to handle this when Conrail CEO Richard Sanborn died of a heart attack - the Conrail steam program died with him.
In 1986 Elkhart city officials drove into the Bob Spaugh's and Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation parking lot and made an offer to become a part of the project by lending The city of Elkhart influence and help. Bob sold the restaurant and its dining cars to the city outright, the rest of the railroad equipment including NYC 3001 was leased to The City of Elkhart by the foundation.
Efforts continued to obtain funding to restore NYC 3001 and restoration funds were offered and became available through The National Railroad Historical Society. I am sure similar funding is available today.
---------------------
Fast forward to the years 2006-2008 when Mark Frazier was the Curator of the Elkhart Museum with a plan moving towards operating NYC 3001. Ron Troyer was a director of the museum at this time.
Enter the administration of Mayor Dick Moore of Elkhart who completely altered the direction of the museum while giving lip service to supporting the operation of NYC 3001. Moore was heavy handed with any part of the city govenment that did not see things "the way he did" or get his approval for such projects. Mayor Dick Moore appointed Robin Hume from Elkahart Human Resourses and Parks and Recreation Department to head the Elkhart Museum.
The City of Elkhart has made few statements of any credability concerning the Museum and engine NYC 3001.
Many feel the the National New York Central Railroad Museum is adrift without a true purpose or mission and that it and its prize collection are the stepchild of city politics that are use for 'one-up-man-ship' more than the use of, preservation of, and protection of the exhibits such as NYC 3001.
In this behavior I feel sure there is a violation of the museum lease and foundations charter.
To illustrate the source of the problem, here are a few quotes from 3rd term mayor Dick Moore - who by he way is running for mayor again in 2015 - regarding the museum and the operation of NYC Mohawk 3001,
----------------------
"I'm not sure its the practical thing to do, the train wouldn't be seen much in Elkhart"
"I'm not sure thats what we need if we can't run it when it gets back here."
"A lot of people have said, 'Yes, Elkhart ought to do that!' I think they are like me..they would love to see it run and smoke and toot and do all that again...but it's questionable."
The mayor has also gone on record saying that he is reluctant to part with the 70 year old locomotive but after communicating with 'rail buffs' and those who brought NYC 3001 from Texas he now half-heartedly supports restoration efforts.
A non profit group of 'rail buffs' called Friends of 261, based in Shoreview, MN, thought that NYC Mohawk 3001 could be overhauled for about 1 million dollars and would try to find the money to do it. "They are wrapped up in 261 and can't handle two locomotives at this time, but they are still interested. We don't have one or two million dollars ourselves."
He would rather have an outside organization perform the restoration.
He plans to form a committee of 'rail buffs' and members of Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation (who owns NYC Mohawk 3001).
"The City of Elkhart is contacting railroads, private companies and individuals interested in being involved in the restoration."
Ron Troyer - Director of National New York Central Railroad Museum in 2007 is quoted "Were drafting a letter to send out to a couple of companies that have the ability to do this."
Persons contacting the National New York Central Railroad Museum in 2010 were told "Ron Troyer is in charge."
-----------------
Some facts about Mayor Dick Moore 3rd term Mayor of The City of Elkhart.
He is 77 years old and grew up in Elkhart where he earned a highschool degree from Elkhart High School in 1957.
Dick Moore is former Street Commissioner, Fire Chief, owner of the River Queen restaurant and was co-owner of a trucking company for 10 years.
Dick Moore reportedly is a model railroader with several loops of track in his basement. - He is at least purported to to be a model railroader for publicity and political purposes.
Dick Moore announced that he is going for a third term election in 2015 on the Democratic ticket.
In 2008 he pionered Anti-Noise Control legislation in Elkhart and established a noice control police enforecement. He feels the anti-noise control is a model program for the nation. - This is an odd political stand on his part because Elkhart is a railroad shop and yard center moving extensive rail traffic and hazardous materials. Rail whistles are necessary for the protection of everyones safety.
Mayor Dick Moore notes also that Elkhart has the highest unemployment in the country. - One wonders at the mind set of a politician who would advertise this fact and not do anything about it. Possibly setting up a tourist railroad using NYC Mohawk 3001 could do something to alleviate this.
Ron Troyer former Director of the National New York Central Railroad Museum has removed himself from participation in the museum and has run and been elected to the City Council of Elkhart from the 4th District. - This presents an odd poliitcal conflict of interest in the city's manipulation of the NYC Museum.
--------------------
Bob Spaugh who created the restaurant and operated the steam excursions, who was fundamental in leading the Lakeshore Railroad Historical Foundation owners of NYC 3001 died this past week.
NYC Mohawk 3001 remains the sole surviving passenger engine of the New York Central Railroad beating the odds of all her 600 sisters.
NYC Mohawk 3001 has outlived New York Central Railroad President - Al Perlman and all those bent on the distruction of "The Great Steel Fleet."
NYC Mohawk 3001 remains itself! - The coveted and cherished sole representative of the great age of New York Central passenger steam locomotives.
----------------------------
Blind and obstinate Mayor Dick Moore and no one else will keep NYC Mohawk 3001 from this appointed destiny. - Because NYC Mohawk 3001 belongs to the heart of the people of America!
There are a few folks here who need to wake up and take a look at this fact!
There are people and there are places NYC Mohawk 3001 belongs besides being trapped in the city of Elkhart, Indiana!
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think the actual ownership of 3001 has been explained. Who does own the engine, and who owns the other display items at Elkhart, and what are the terms & duration of the lease?
Thats a cool post Tom, I can see the four coupled drivers rolling across the diamond and the train coming on. NYC in its glory!
I was reading that the new musem director for National New York Central Railroad Museum in Elkhart has recently replaced the former director Mark Frazier at whim of the Mayor Dick Moore of Elkhart. "Because he replaces anyone who does not agree with him." Mark was moving the museum forward in the restoration to operation of NYC 3001. This executive action was an effort to make sure Mohawk NYC 3001 does not steam again. Basically the mayor decapatated the museum structure. Apparently he wants the National New York Central Railroad Museum to be some kind of a "carnival side show" or "kiddy land." The new museum director Robin Hume is from Elkhart Parks and Recreation Department. I do not believe she has the skills or could really direct the museum in the operation of NYC Mohawk 3001.
It is important to know that the City of Elkhart does not own the NYC Mohawk 3001 because it is on lease to the National New York Central Railroad Museum. I would question that The City of Elkhart and Mayor Dick Moore have broken the conditions of the lease of NYC Mohawk 3001 by changing the function and purpose of the Elkhart museum from operation of the locomotive to become a collection of railroad equipment.
If they are not interested in this railroad equipment its preservation and operation why should they even have it? It is really out of the realm of the function of city governments like Elkhart, Indiana to operate a museum of this sort. I question if a mere "kiddie tourist attraction" really was the original intent of the owners in the leasing NYC Mohawk 3001 to the City of Elkhart.
I think its time for the owners of NYC Mohawk 3001 to consider legal action to remove this their property from control of such a disfuctional city government and mayor! I for one know several attorneys who are railfans who would be glad to take up the case!
Last time I heard the current Mayor of Elkhart Dick Moore was presently residing in Florida. I wonder how he manages to keep up with his mayoral duties and what's going on in Indiana?
THE MOHAWK THAT REFUSED TO ABDICATE
In September of 1955, David Morgan and Philip Hastings started a journey to photograph steam action for a Trains Magazine series. They started, appropriately enough, in Roanoke, Virginia, on the N&W. Then they recorded C&O and a number of smaller roads in West Viirginia before they got to Ohio. Eventually, their travels took them on a journey around Lake Erie through Ontario, to upstate New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, and Quebec. The result was a feature called Steam In Indian Summer, that ran in fourteen installments in Trains Magazine, one of the most popular features they ever ran.
After West Virginia and before they reached Toledo, (installment 4) they stopped a ways north of Columbus to observe and record PRR J1 2-10-4's on the Sandusky line, then moved on to Galion where they found bedraggled-looking NYC L-3a Mohawk 3005 at the coal chute tied to a long train of dead freight. Morgan and Hastings agreed the train looked like too much for 3005, but veteran engineer John Hitchko was optimistic.
The pair moved on to Shelby, Ohio and observed several other steam and diesel movements on the Big Four, plus a B&O Mikado working the interchange. From the tower operator, they learned that 3005 had pulled a drawbar, creating a living nightmare for the dispatcher. Just when it looked like 3005's efforts were bound for failure, they suddenly discovered that Hitchko and his conductor had gotten their train together and were, in Morgan's words,
"...bearing down on Shelby with all the implications of destiny of the Book of Revelations, gaining momentum with each revolution of those four pairs of 69-inch drivers, making the legal mile a minute with ease and perhaps a notch or two better. The elephant-eared aristocrat of an Alco rammed across the diamond with smoke going high, the Baker up near center, and the crew enjoying the breeze. Out of her dusty wake came her train --- rattling, rocking, rolling, riding to Cleveland at such a pace that, as Hastings recalls it, 'one felt called upon to wonder at what moment the whole shebang would take either to the air or to the adjacent countryside.'"
Hastings' photos of the event are classic, as is Morgan's description.
The entire series, plus additional Morgan/Hastings gems, was published by Kalmbach in book form (The Mohawk That Refused to Abdicate, And Other Tales) in 1975. That book should be in your personal collection.
ACY And for those who remember, there are a couple views of 3005, the Mohawk That Refused To Abdicate.
And for those who remember, there are a couple views of 3005, the Mohawk That Refused To Abdicate.
Never heard this, could someone explain the story behind that?
I just spent a very enjoyable hour or so watching (again) Herron's New York Central Vol. 1, Big Four Route: films of Donald J. Krofta, with sound recorded by Jim Hawk.
There's our girl, 3001, in all her glory, working out of Bellefontaine (pronounced Bell-fountain), Ohio in 1955. She's shown in several views. Also shown are several other Mohawks of various L-2, L-3. and L-4 subclasses, plus Mikes and Hudsons. Even diesel fans will get a kick out of seeing Lima diesel switchers and at least one Erie-buit F-M, so there's something for everyone. Saint Louis' 2933 isn't shown, but there are several L-2 shots that will give you a sense of what she'd look like under steam.
Of all the preserved engines in the world, the NYC Mohawks are the ones I would most love to see back in steam.
(Now, where are we gonna run her?)
Doctor D, and anyone else for that matter, if you're really interested in the Loco Valve Pilot there's a superb article in Kalmbach's "Steam Glory 3" by Christopher Zahrt concerning the same. The article won a David P. Morgan award as well, and it was well deserved in my opinion.
"Steam Glory 3" is available as a back-issue, if you haven't got it, do so.
S. Connor,
I just happened to google "NYC Hudson" and came upon a u-tube presentation I have seen before entitled "The Steam Locomotive" by New York Central film department.
About mid way through the video the film did a nice presentation of the Valve Pilot Indicator. Showing the "black box" on the side of the engine and then the elaborate console in the cab with the dial gauge. Surprisingly they opened up the Valve Pilot Indicator and reveled the paper tape on reals that recorded the operation of the locomotive and how well the engineer adjusted the "cut off."
Apparently these tapes were removed after every run and sent to some company railroad department that reviewed them! Now without modern computers that's a serious amount of paper tape rolls to evaluate considering the number of engines the New York Central had running at any one time!
This interesting film and shows the "Hudson" steam locomotive in very fine detail. This would be a cool u-tube presentation for you to review if you are going to look over NYC Mohawk 2933!
Thanks Dr. D,
I think it's cool you were involved in saving PM 1225 from the prison of that park! I'm only too exited to hear "behind the scenes" stories of things like this.
As for 3001, only time will tell her fate. May someone knock sense into Ekhart.
Be back with news on 2933 when I can.
Best of Luck,
It's pretty cool that you have the time to volunteer at the St. Louis Museum. Once you are part of a family like that you probably only have to ask for access to the cab. Especially if I you are researching a project they will allow you. The museums exist for this purpose.
Thats why Southern California cut loose UP4014 and didn't try to keep it! This is why St. Louis is cutting loose the N&W Y6b. Any museum worth its charter is interested in more public attention and appreciation and the furthering of its mission. Its why Virginia is allowing restoration of 611 and allowing volunteers from all over the country to sign up and work on the engine.
This is also why Dick Moore the Mayor of Elkhart is totally screwed up in the head. He is peverting the National New York Central Railroad Museum mission for some kind of distorted purpose like city income or his and the city attorneys own personal fears.
Museums do not exist as private collections for the curators. They are interested in making the most historical impact and the public use of their collections. All museums love scholars and scholarship and anyone who in doing historic research - and for that purpose they have "the red carpet out."
So tell them you are researching an article for Trains Magazine Forum they should be glad to cooperate! You should also be able to access any historical files they have. And welcome to the world of creative writing Dr. S. Connor.
Dr. D.
I had to chuckle at that one. Presence or absence of a water scoop is hardly relevant, since you'll have a hard time finding a place to scoop water from the pans.
Yes, the L-2's (2933) were considered freight engines; but they were used on passenger trains sometimes, and their overall size and capabilities were not much different from those of the dual service L-3's (3001). As far as operation is concerned, nobody is likely to allow either engine to operate at 70 mph, so the 3001's high-speed capability may not be so important.
What's so bad about a freight engine on varnish? Many of our past, present, and future fan trip engines were designed as freight engines. These include NKP 765, PM 1225, SR 4501, N&W 1218, UP 4014, UP 3985, RDG 2102, RDG 2124, T&P 610, and many more.
If either one of those Mohawks ever breathes again, I'll be at trackside and/or hopefully in an open-window car behind. 2933 or 3001? Who cares which?
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