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Bad train pictures

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 8, 2004 10:18 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by michaelstevens

[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.


Mike,

Thanks I'll check out the Wilmington Train Station and see if I can find them.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 8, 2004 10:18 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by michaelstevens

[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.


Mike,

Thanks I'll check out the Wilmington Train Station and see if I can find them.
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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, January 8, 2004 10:13 AM
Zardoz is on the money, as usual. I've heard the tales about overshooting the stop because the tree was cut down.

But to know how well these people usually do, just watch the platform during rush-hour. Passengers will congregate in certain spots, about a car-length apart. And when the train comes in, the doors stop right in front of them. Time after time after time...

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, January 8, 2004 10:13 AM
Zardoz is on the money, as usual. I've heard the tales about overshooting the stop because the tree was cut down.

But to know how well these people usually do, just watch the platform during rush-hour. Passengers will congregate in certain spots, about a car-length apart. And when the train comes in, the doors stop right in front of them. Time after time after time...

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by michaelstevens on Thursday, January 8, 2004 10:02 AM
[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.
British Mike in Philly
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Posted by michaelstevens on Thursday, January 8, 2004 10:02 AM
[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.
British Mike in Philly
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 8, 2004 9:54 AM
Reminds me of giving directions in the country. [:p]

Go three gravel roads up, turn at the red barn, just past where all the cows hang out. When you see the pit silo out in the field turn 3 chicken coops past that. After the 2 nd hog house head north, when you drive through the creek look for the large oak tree and turn west. After about a mile (as the crow flies) look for Farmer Brown's mailbox. (You can't see his house for the trees.) There that should get you there (about next month). lol [:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 8, 2004 9:54 AM
Reminds me of giving directions in the country. [:p]

Go three gravel roads up, turn at the red barn, just past where all the cows hang out. When you see the pit silo out in the field turn 3 chicken coops past that. After the 2 nd hog house head north, when you drive through the creek look for the large oak tree and turn west. After about a mile (as the crow flies) look for Farmer Brown's mailbox. (You can't see his house for the trees.) There that should get you there (about next month). lol [:D]
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Posted by zardoz on Thursday, January 8, 2004 9:42 AM
Kevin-
Your diagram was very nicely done. It was an excellent depiction of how the markers work.

When I was running Suburban trains for the CNW, we did not have the luxury of such markers.
We used 'field' markers, such as:
at station X, to use three cars of a five car train, stop next to the tree by the blue garage with a F7, just past the tree with a F40, and by the next bush past the tree with an E8;
to use one car of seven, stop by the telephone pole just past the small bush by the driveway of the red house; etc,etc.

What made it interesting (read frustrating) was that not only did we use many different combinbations of coaches carried/coaches used, but we also had three different size locos (E8, F7, F40), each with a different length from the rear of the unit to where the engineer sat. In addition, all of our platforms were on the 'fireman' side of the train, so we could not even eyeball the station. Also, some of the spots were very difficult to see in bad weather, darkness, snow cover, etc.

Plus, every once and a while, someone would modify their property such that our spot would be gone: chugging along looking for the tall tree to set the brakes, all of the sudden (OOPS!) realizing that the station is too close (where did the tree go?), then having to stop using an emergency application. To hit a station from 70mph using only emergency was an ability that separated the "crackerjacks" from the "runners" (once one got over the embarrassment of having to resort to such tactics).

The conductors had their work cut out for them also. Usually only one traincrew person had the responsibility of opening the coach doors at the stations. If the engineer missed his mark by more than a few feet, usually one coach's doors would be off the platform. If the conductor just opened the doors without looking where he was, a coach door could open onto a ditch, fence, or some other extremely hazardous situation. The commuters, of course, would bolt from the train as soon as the doors opened, without bothering to look to see if there was someplace to actually land........


And of course, each train had different braking characteristics. A eight car train with a F40 would brake quite differently than a three-car train with an E8. So we also used rediculous things as markers as where to set the brakes for a station stop. Being as we had such tight schedules for the trains, each stop had to be made by going full speed until nearly the last moment, and then making a near-full service application, with only slight adjustments possible after the initial set. Fortunately we had "graduated release" brakes, and could do minor adjustments. But to repeatedly (30-90 times per day, depending on run) hit such small targets required a significant level of concentration; all this while zipping through heavily-populated suburbs at 70mph, with grade crossings every quarter mile. Whew!
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Posted by zardoz on Thursday, January 8, 2004 9:42 AM
Kevin-
Your diagram was very nicely done. It was an excellent depiction of how the markers work.

When I was running Suburban trains for the CNW, we did not have the luxury of such markers.
We used 'field' markers, such as:
at station X, to use three cars of a five car train, stop next to the tree by the blue garage with a F7, just past the tree with a F40, and by the next bush past the tree with an E8;
to use one car of seven, stop by the telephone pole just past the small bush by the driveway of the red house; etc,etc.

What made it interesting (read frustrating) was that not only did we use many different combinbations of coaches carried/coaches used, but we also had three different size locos (E8, F7, F40), each with a different length from the rear of the unit to where the engineer sat. In addition, all of our platforms were on the 'fireman' side of the train, so we could not even eyeball the station. Also, some of the spots were very difficult to see in bad weather, darkness, snow cover, etc.

Plus, every once and a while, someone would modify their property such that our spot would be gone: chugging along looking for the tall tree to set the brakes, all of the sudden (OOPS!) realizing that the station is too close (where did the tree go?), then having to stop using an emergency application. To hit a station from 70mph using only emergency was an ability that separated the "crackerjacks" from the "runners" (once one got over the embarrassment of having to resort to such tactics).

The conductors had their work cut out for them also. Usually only one traincrew person had the responsibility of opening the coach doors at the stations. If the engineer missed his mark by more than a few feet, usually one coach's doors would be off the platform. If the conductor just opened the doors without looking where he was, a coach door could open onto a ditch, fence, or some other extremely hazardous situation. The commuters, of course, would bolt from the train as soon as the doors opened, without bothering to look to see if there was someplace to actually land........


And of course, each train had different braking characteristics. A eight car train with a F40 would brake quite differently than a three-car train with an E8. So we also used rediculous things as markers as where to set the brakes for a station stop. Being as we had such tight schedules for the trains, each stop had to be made by going full speed until nearly the last moment, and then making a near-full service application, with only slight adjustments possible after the initial set. Fortunately we had "graduated release" brakes, and could do minor adjustments. But to repeatedly (30-90 times per day, depending on run) hit such small targets required a significant level of concentration; all this while zipping through heavily-populated suburbs at 70mph, with grade crossings every quarter mile. Whew!
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 8, 2004 6:40 AM
Chicago Transit Authority has car markers at all of its L-subway stations. Similar markers can be found on the South Shore at Hegewisch, probably the other stations. Metra Southwest Service (ex-WAB) to Orland Park has these markers. This line also has several short station platforms so positioning the train properly is important.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 8, 2004 6:40 AM
Chicago Transit Authority has car markers at all of its L-subway stations. Similar markers can be found on the South Shore at Hegewisch, probably the other stations. Metra Southwest Service (ex-WAB) to Orland Park has these markers. This line also has several short station platforms so positioning the train properly is important.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Mikeygaw on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 10:30 PM
all this talk of platform length reminds me of the one time i was on the Philadelphia El, going about half way down the line, and the driver overshot about 2/3 of the stations and had to back up before opening the doors
Conrail Forever!
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Posted by Mikeygaw on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 10:30 PM
all this talk of platform length reminds me of the one time i was on the Philadelphia El, going about half way down the line, and the driver overshot about 2/3 of the stations and had to back up before opening the doors
Conrail Forever!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:17 PM
well in the city of ile perrot, their platform has room for 3 cars and not a pinch more. it's insane, i hate that platform. tinyiest thing ever. so as soon as you have 4 cars, boom, the hang over effect.

yeah (an engineer) has to be a realy big dumb bell to miss these things, I figure only Moe, Larry and Curly could miss these!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:17 PM
well in the city of ile perrot, their platform has room for 3 cars and not a pinch more. it's insane, i hate that platform. tinyiest thing ever. so as soon as you have 4 cars, boom, the hang over effect.

yeah (an engineer) has to be a realy big dumb bell to miss these things, I figure only Moe, Larry and Curly could miss these!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:12 PM
Where can one find these dummy markers. In Wilmington, Delaware it would take one hell of a long train to hang over the platforms. I have only seen trains with extra trailers at the end hang over.

Thanks for the info guys!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:12 PM
Where can one find these dummy markers. In Wilmington, Delaware it would take one hell of a long train to hang over the platforms. I have only seen trains with extra trailers at the end hang over.

Thanks for the info guys!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:01 PM
goodie goodie gum drops, one I can answer

See we have dummy markers
you got to be a real Dummy to miss these. When the Marker says 3, the Locomotive should stop at/ short about 1 meter of that sign, Meaning it has Three cars, and 1 locmotive.

if the sign Says 8, that usually means the first Car or 2 won't be on the platform. The written rule, is if the train is longer then the platform, always overshoot it the amont of extra cars, never stop short. Then the conductor of that train tells the passengers to get off using the END cars of the train. Platforms usuall can hold 6-7 cars comfortably, one only holds 3, a few hold eight...

So on that platform that only holds three, the locomotive has to go well beyond the actual platform so the last three cars can fit comfotably, the big sign that sais 8, 100-200 yards ahead of the station is where the train should be stopped.

most trains are 3-5 cars, so often no cars are left dangling off the platform.

hope thats clear, and knowing me, it's as clear as mud


*******6**********5*******4*******3*******|----------------------------------------------|************
=====|LOCO|==1===|==2===|===3==|===4===|===5===|===6===|============
===============================================================

So the stars represent the grass,The numbers in the grass are the sign posts, the |--------| is the platform, ==== are the tracks, and the |===2===| are the cars.

help any?

what i was saying before, Car number 6 has to be at kleast at the end of the platform, it's not allowed to be off. car number 1 can be off, then 2 if necesary, then number 3 if necesary

hope that helps.

and in the drawing above, the conductor would stande between cars number 3 and 4, and only open the doors for number 4, 5 and 6

but one station beofre hand he'd tell the passenegrs to get ready, and to get off the back of the train.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:01 PM
goodie goodie gum drops, one I can answer

See we have dummy markers
you got to be a real Dummy to miss these. When the Marker says 3, the Locomotive should stop at/ short about 1 meter of that sign, Meaning it has Three cars, and 1 locmotive.

if the sign Says 8, that usually means the first Car or 2 won't be on the platform. The written rule, is if the train is longer then the platform, always overshoot it the amont of extra cars, never stop short. Then the conductor of that train tells the passengers to get off using the END cars of the train. Platforms usuall can hold 6-7 cars comfortably, one only holds 3, a few hold eight...

So on that platform that only holds three, the locomotive has to go well beyond the actual platform so the last three cars can fit comfotably, the big sign that sais 8, 100-200 yards ahead of the station is where the train should be stopped.

most trains are 3-5 cars, so often no cars are left dangling off the platform.

hope thats clear, and knowing me, it's as clear as mud


*******6**********5*******4*******3*******|----------------------------------------------|************
=====|LOCO|==1===|==2===|===3==|===4===|===5===|===6===|============
===============================================================

So the stars represent the grass,The numbers in the grass are the sign posts, the |--------| is the platform, ==== are the tracks, and the |===2===| are the cars.

help any?

what i was saying before, Car number 6 has to be at kleast at the end of the platform, it's not allowed to be off. car number 1 can be off, then 2 if necesary, then number 3 if necesary

hope that helps.

and in the drawing above, the conductor would stande between cars number 3 and 4, and only open the doors for number 4, 5 and 6

but one station beofre hand he'd tell the passenegrs to get ready, and to get off the back of the train.
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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 6:59 PM
They know how long the train is an they know where they have to stop to position the train properly. Afterall they stop trains at that station day in and day out for years.

Dave H.

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 6:59 PM
They know how long the train is an they know where they have to stop to position the train properly. Afterall they stop trains at that station day in and day out for years.

Dave H.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 6:30 PM
Sorry to bring this back....I have a stupid question.

How do engineers know when to stop after they enter a RR Station? I watch Amtrak all day and the locos stop at different places along the platforms depending on the length
of the train. Thanks.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 6:30 PM
Sorry to bring this back....I have a stupid question.

How do engineers know when to stop after they enter a RR Station? I watch Amtrak all day and the locos stop at different places along the platforms depending on the length
of the train. Thanks.
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Posted by dharmon on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 7:06 PM
Ed, Micheal...

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

Merry Christmas. .....now get off the computer and go be with the family...[:D]
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Posted by dharmon on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 7:06 PM
Ed, Micheal...

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

Merry Christmas. .....now get off the computer and go be with the family...[:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 6:34 PM
Thanks for the info everyone.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 6:34 PM
Thanks for the info everyone.
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Posted by michaelstevens on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 5:00 PM
On the subject of "PRR markings on Conrail repaints" -- a Railroader here in the Philadelphia area (actually in Pavonia Yard) told me that "PRR" is used to designate assignment to the "Conrail Shared Assets" business subsidiaries (of NS and CSX).
British Mike in Philly
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Posted by michaelstevens on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 5:00 PM
On the subject of "PRR markings on Conrail repaints" -- a Railroader here in the Philadelphia area (actually in Pavonia Yard) told me that "PRR" is used to designate assignment to the "Conrail Shared Assets" business subsidiaries (of NS and CSX).
British Mike in Philly

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