Railroad concern for crossing safety

[Anonymous]

What are you talking about? We do have speed restrictions at some crossings. I get so sick of watching 60 minutes when some mother wants to sue the RRs for her dumb son's stupidity. He tried to beat the train and lost. Now it is the RR's fault. What is your deal mike? How can it be the RR's fault? The crossings are marked. You are taught crossing safety in driver's ed. What is up with you and this hard on for the RR's? You are a bleeding heart sissy! Go away, you make me sick, you crybaby! Typical of today's socioty. Everything is somebody else's fault! Everybody should protect you if you are too stupid to protect yourself. You and your "facade of operation lifesaver," The men I work with and myself are professional and do not want to kill anybody. Go cry somewhere else! What else should we do, drive the cars over the crossings for all of the dummies that can't do that right. Why don't you come down on the stupid parents in a ru***rying to beat the train that get their innocent children killed trying to save a minute? You are a RR buff my ***. Find annother cause and bug them!

[Anonymous]

Dear Ed,
I am deeply saddend by your position and I sympathize with you as much as I can in regards to actually being involved in these collisions. It must be extremely painful to see first hand the apparent carelessness of some people in an attempt to "beat the train". I would like to address to you though the situations in which a crossing is known to be dangerous by the railroad in regards to sight distance,speed of train,etc. yet they do nothing about it. I know its hard to imagine but how many close calls have you had when you were driving your automobile and said Wow! that was close. Well there are grade crossing accidents that occur in this matter sometimes as a result of numerous things the railroad "COULD HAVE DONE" to make the crossing safer. This is my problem with "Operation Lifesaver" because of there self-interest, there take on that is its ALWAYS the drivers fault. Well that is far from THE TRUTH. Please consider the other side of the story and as an insider do something with this energy and concern you have for these crossings. The railroad has the ability to do something but because the government supports them on the position of doing nothing it makes it easy for them to look out for the precious "bottom line". Well its time for a wake up call to the industry. Who's side are you on; the multi-million dollar rail industry or the family who lost a son or daughter due to a HIGHLY preventable accident at a crossing?

[Anonymous]

The "problem" with grade crossings in this country seems to be the mentality supported by "Operation Lifesaver" that the driver is ALWAYS at fault. What about the overwhelming amount of knowledge that the railroad has in regards to sight distance, percieved speed of train, etc. and yet refuses to act on it because it will effect the precious bottom line. That is a pathetic excuse for the loss of human life. I know there are people out there that try to beat the train, but what about the ones that are not trying to beat the train but are at a distinct disadvantage not only in knowledge but also in the actual mechanics of the crossing not being adequate to determine if it is safe to cross? Please open your eyes and consider the complete story, not just this facade that "Operation Lifesaver" puts on. In a perfect world stop/look/listen would be ideal, but why discount all the available knowledge and ability the railroad has to PREVENT unreasonable risks at crossing?

[Anonymous]

The "problem" with grade crossings in this country seems to be the mentality supported by "Operation Lifesaver" that the driver is ALWAYS at fault. What about the overwhelming amount of knowledge that the railroad has in regards to sight distance, percieved speed of train, etc. and yet refuses to act on it because it will effect the precious bottom line. That is a pathetic excuse for the loss of human life. I know there are people out there that try to beat the train, but what about the ones that are not trying to beat the train but are at a distinct disadvantage not only in knowledge but also in the actual mechanics of the crossing not being adequate to determine if it is safe to cross? Please open your eyes and consider the complete story, not just this facade that "Operation Lifesaver" puts on. In a perfect world stop/look/listen would be ideal, but why discount all the available knowledge and ability the railroad has to PREVENT unreasonable risks at crossing? Thank you for your comments

[Anonymous]

Thank you sir for your politeness,
I have to say thought that Operation Lifesaver tells ONE side of the story. Not ALL grade crossing accidents are caused by driver error or carelessness. Try starting a chapter in your area, guess what you can't. The railroad wants FULL control of what is said. More on this later

[dknelson]

The "problem" with grade crossings is that the the train by definition is going to "win" over the driver, but I hardly see how that makes it the railroad's responsibility to design idiot-proof crossings.
How safe does a crossing have to be made if drivers ignore all the rules of the road? If drivers follow the rules -- and that includes stop/look/listen if they DON'T know if a train is coming or not -- there should be few if any accidents.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Thank you, I enjoyed that comment because you are probably right. However I tend to look at BOTH sides of a story and wanted to be on this trial for that purpose. I have come away from that trial with incredible sadness and disbelief in the attitude of the railroad industry. I have come to know the BOTH sides of the story and let me tell you if it was your son or daughter you would be fighting too because of the incredible amount of unconcern for human life on the railroads part. The ONLY way to make them show responsibility is to take money away from them. I had a hard time understanding that until this trial, I have since learned. Take care and God Bless you!!

[edblysard]

Go Get em, Tim....
Ed

[edblysard]

Its the kids that tear me up the most, because they cant make the decision to go or stop, their just along for the ride. What their parents are thinking is beyond me, how can what I assume are good, caring parents drive in front of a moving train with their kids in the car escapes me.
The part that keeps coming back and biting me is the dad lived, just got shook up, seat belt burn. The front knuckle hit the rear drivers door, drove it straight through, and pinned the little girl between the drivers rear door and the passenger rear door. It picked up the car, jammed it between the knuckle and the anti climber, clear off the ground. When we got stopped, dad stepped out the passenger side front without a problem. Go figure...
Ed

[Anonymous]

Operation Lifesaver does work. You Sir, are wrong.
TIM ARGUBRIGHT

[wabash1]

Ed you sounded as cold hearted as i did. I can say with out a doubt that railroaders are like cops in that we get a cold heart after years of seeing death. we have grown acustom to it and problem dont show it. when we say to people that we see, or we have. and not shiver its only becouse of the years of this happening. in my last post i started to mention but decided not to was a incident that i will share it is the one that sticks in my mind the most as haunting me ( for lack of better words).

i was east bound running 27mph this particular area has a crossing thru town about every 150ft. so youu are making lots of noise blowing for crossings there is 12 of them. i am looking at a mini-van running hard for the crossing and my conductor is wide eyed as i am couse we see 3 kids in the back faces pressed to the glass little hands on the glass looking wide eyed at us i am laying down on the horn hand on the automatic they are not stopping. she did stop finally with the front end on the crossing. then took off again. i lost her on my side of the engine the conductor said she cleared us. total distancee of near miss. 20ft. all we could think of was the kids. that was all we tallked about was the kids. what did the driver look like blonde long hair ( possible female dont know) all we saw was the kids scared. There are many others that all railroaders can talk about but the ones that will start will most likly have kids in them

to sum it up is it the railroads fault NO. is it the crews fault NO. If people wasnt in such a big hurry to go nowhere maybe we could save lives but as long as they remain stupid then death will prevail.

[Anonymous]

This is a reply to the idiot who started this thread: You do not know what you are talking about! Operation lifesaver is a very good organization. They go to schools and educate kids my daughter's age. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. I guess that it could be the RR's fault when a car zigzags thru the gates, huh. I have seen the zigzag stunt quite a few times. Maybe the RRs should put big fluffy pillows on the fronts of the engines as not to hurt any moron that is not smart enough to stay out of the way. You sir are a jackass! Your way of thinking is exactly what perpetuates this sue happy socioty. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions. If you don't like what I have posted, I will be happy to give you my personal E-mail and we can chat more personally about this. My advice to you is to stay far away from the tracks. You give foamers a bad name...................

[edblysard]

Been to Europe, rode the trains, lots of them. Been to Japan, rode the train, lots of them too. Discovered this. One, there isnt a lot of grade crossings, a: because most of the right of way is owned by the goverments and they are smart enought to not build roads over highspeed railroad tracks. B: there isnt as many automobiles, they are too expensive to own there, hence there isnt as many roads, and thats why most people in europe and japan travel by train.
The railroads in America do not have jusisdiction to decide what type of grade crossing protection to provide at any given crossing. The local, state and county goverments decide what goes where, the railroad just has to pay to install the device, and maintain it.
Most railroad tracks and right of ways in America were purchased in the last century, and most were in rural areas, away from large populations, before there were cars to need crossings. The cities, and surburba grew up around the tracks, and bought the crossing property from the railroad, often having to sue the railroad to obtain the right to cross the tracks. Railroads hate things other that trains on their tracks.
The last two grade crossing "accidents" I have been in involved drivers weaving around a double arm gate, equipped with lights and bells. The last one, where the passenger jumped outside of the car, and tried to pu***he gate back up so his buddy could drive under it, cost his friend his life. All to beat a locomotive, pulling three cars.
What it seems your are saying is thats its the railroads responsibility to protect the automobile driver from their own stupidity.
So if I break into your garage, start playing around with your chainsaw, and end up cutting off my leg, I should sue you and be paid because you didnt stop me from breaking into your garage?
Anyone foolish enought to drive, step in front of, or just get close to a moving locomotive and the train it is pulling is going to be hurt. Would you allow your children to play on a airport runway? If you did, would you sue the airline when it lands a jet on your kids?
Do you walk out into the street with out looking both ways? If you saw a car coming, would you continue to walk across the street, or would you stop and let the car pass? If you didnt stop, and got hit by that car, are your going to sue the city, because it didnt prevent you from walking across a busy street?
So why would anyone with one wit of common sense drive or walk into the path of a moving locomotive?
Trains are loud, have huge, bright headlights, bells, horns and flashing ditch lights to warn you away from them because they weigh thousands of tons, cant stop like your car can, and if they hit you, they kill you.
If you dont like the grade crossing where you live, dont beef at the railroad, it isnt their crossing, its yours, you sued us to allow you to put the street across our tracks, we didnt invite you to do so. If you want better crossing protection, write your city, state or county goverment, and tell them. They are the ones who decide what type of protection is present. As for the railroad, we would perfer you to stay off our tracks all the time. The best grade crossing is the one that isnt there. Tell your city planner you want a overpass, or a underpass instead.
And by the way, how often have you been in the cab of a locomotive, staring down at a ten year old, who is looking, wide eyed, right into your eyes, just as she gets wiped off the face of the earth? All because her dad didnt want to be late to the movies.
When was the last time you held your engineer while he puked up his guts, crying and screaming because he looked into what was left of the car and saw the little girls face, her eyes still wide open?
Thats what I though.
You can take your pious, selfrightous capital TRUTH and stuff it up your ***.
I absolutely cant belive the incredible lack of common sense on the part of the person who gets in front of a moving train.
To all you railfans out there who think we are a bunch of callous jerks who run over people because we dont care, I invite any of you to ride one day in the cab, and see what we see, every single day, and do what we do. If, after that ride, you still dont understand that in any collision between a train and anything else but another train, the locomotive will always win, always, or that the only thing thats belongs on the tracks is the train, I will apologize here, in writting to you by name.
And to all you railfans out there who have enough common sense to safely watch trains, and belive the logo, "Stop, look and listen" is a good thing to teach your kids,
I offer you my most sincere thanks.
Ed Blysard, conductor/ switchman, engine foreman, and Dad.

[Anonymous]

First & formost any death or injury is a horrible situation to deal with. Period. Another thing is any possible media that can pass the info along to inform people to be carefull near trains is critical. But to pass all blame on the railroads....thats streaching the truth! I rember distinctively living in St.Francis Wi near the CNW crossings on St. Francis Ave when I was a youth. They had railroad police patroling the X-ings and track in my neighborhood. But I didnt really understand just how dangerous the tracks where until a conductor yelled "Don't cross in front of me...I can't stop..But you can!!" Dang..after cutting across the tracks many times less then 10 feet from a moving engine an a bike...It finaly dawned on me the awsome responsiblity to be on/near these creatures. These workers busted there rears off to keep me & my freinds safe. I talked to a few workers here & there, but they really practiced SAFETY FIRST!!

The people that realy need to be informed of the dangers of crossings "usualy" could care less about learning how to take a quick glance for a train....Its more fun to send the car airborne over the grading anyhow!! Again I've seen at least 3 accidents near 43 & Greenfield (Milwaukee)when the train was moving..bells & whistles blaring...flashing red lights..And bordy bordy boor....I dont need to stop....WHACK!! yep they pulled right infront of the train. If you think thats un real this one still blows me away

My Grand Pa told me a story of a farmer near Stevens Point Wi. The farmer had a RR x-ing on his farm that he crossed daily. One day he went to cross the track in his truck and got hit! The authoritys asked "Why didnt you stop for the train? You can see the smoke from miles away" The farmer hastily replied..."Why should I stop!? thats MY X-ing...Ive been crossing there for YEARS...The train should stop for ME" Again some times the people that need to learn just dont get it. Even after it happens.
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[wabash1]

In my close incounters i could easily see how the driver of the car couldnt see us. first thing was those anoyoing flashing lights and that ding ding ding of the bell. and the flashing ditch lights of the big black engine with head light on bright and that loud horn. it was just drowning out the music . and the kids jumping in the back seat in the car. if it wasnt for the gate comming down across the hood of the car so she haft to stop and look at the damage i think i would have got her. she was mad it was my fault that the gate hit her car.

another one was i was at 55mph saw 2 teenagers in the gage of the tracks . ( easy to tell their hats was on backwards) and i couldnt figure out why they wasnt moving off the tracks i was closing in when one of them looked back and saw me. why didnt they hear me. head phones. i dont know what they was listening to but it was laud enough not to here a ge comming.

or the 16 year old i did hit couse she didnt want to get off the tracks to see if we stop.

so the question that started this was how do we keep people from getting killed in america at crossing accedents. we dont, I aint in a corvette i cant move i cant stop. and a 6 year old has already learned that you dont get in front of a train. maybe 6 year old kids should be driving then. other wise we will take the dummies out of the jean pool. sorry to be so non carring but the truth does hurt.

[BRAKIE]

When I worked on the PRR I saw the frist car of many I would see get hit.This was in 1967.
The cabin car just cleared the crossing as we was just about to enter the crossing,the engineer was sounding the horn,the gates was down,from behind the cabin car a car shot out,BLAMMM! end of story.That driver would never make that fatal mistake again nor would his wife and 2 kids live to see another day..Who was at Fault?

The 2nd time a drive HIT the train 3 cars cars deep,at a unprotected except by cross bucks crossing.Surely this guy could see a train!

You should see the close calls that railroaders see every day..People is just into a big dang hurry to go nowhere and take unneeded risk,not only with trains,but with trucks and other cars as well..Why? Get right down to it who is really to blame?

How many times as someone pulled out in front of you just to go to the next drive way stop for on coming traffic and turn in? But if you hit them it is YOUR fault for them being foolish.

It is pass time for the courts to make these fools pay for their mistakes by not awarding them a penny-not one red cent.

[Anonymous]

Hello mikepapula,

Thanks for bringing up the topic. However, there are flaws in your argument. First, there are many more vehicles per capita in the U.S. compared to Europe, hence more opportunities for train vs. vehicle collisions. Also, although I don't have data in front of me to confirm this, I would wager there are fewer grade crossings per mile in Europe than in the U.S. This also greatly reduces the opportunity for incidents.

Second, state highway departments are largely responsible for grade crossings, not railroads. That's because the roads arrived after the railroads and had to secure easements over the right of ways. Railroads maintain their grade crossing warning equipment and the immediate right of way. But state and local governments have to ante up if citizens want more or different warning devices at grade crossings.

Thirdly, Operation Lifesaver has proven to be an extraordinary success. Since its inception in 1972 the number of train vs. vehicle collisions has dropped almost four-fold, and there are more vehicles in the U.S. today than there were 30 years ago. Those kinds of statistics don't lie.

Bottom line is that, except in rare cases, the fault for a collision lies with the inattentive/aggressive driver or trespasser, not the railroad. Having had two very close calls myself while in the cab of a locomotive, it would be difficult to convince me otherwise.

Regards,

Paul Schmidt
Contributing Editor
Trains.com

[csxns]

Right on jackflash.And people know what those 2 steel rails are.Talking about overpasses i know one where they built a new school and when the road came through they did not build a bridge.CSX is told to slow down when school is in or be ticketed.

[Jackflash]

Went to the sites you suggested but found nothing new there, as for the lawyers site, what do you expect, he makes his living off these collisions
I'm an engineer and I assure you its tragic for
me and any other crew member whenever we have
a crossing collision, but I dont blame the RR
company, they are guility of a lot of things
but causing car-train crashes isnt one of them.
Crossing collisions are caused by driver inattention, and/or trying to beat the train.
After a collision, if the driver of the automobile
(if hes still alive) will always say the engineer
wasnt blowing the horn (and the head light wasnt
on) but check inside whats left of the automobile
and you'll find the radio or CD player is (was)
pumping the music out at 100db.
AND just about all collisions occur near the
drivers home, they knew the crossing was there,
I see it on a daily basis, you will see automobiles approach a crossing slowing down,
at night you'll see their brake lights come on,
then all of a sudden they will release their
brakes and shoot across the tracks, these people
saw the train but decided to try and beat it,
if there is a collision they will say the train
wasnt blowing the horn, or they didnt see the
train because of a building or tree or something.
I hit a woman in 1997 that believe it or not was
putting on make up.
I'm sure the RRs could do a few things to help
and they have, they have offered citys money
to close some crossings but the public has said
no, not my crossing, remember this, in most cases
the tracks were there first, then came the roads
when the citys, countys, built roads across the
tracks they could have built overpasses, it wasnt
the Railroads responsibility. jackflash

[csxns]

Are you a train buff if so they should not let you on the juror.

[Anonymous]

I would love to hear some comments about the industries trend in crossing safety. I have to say I am very disturbed by their lack of concern for people crossing tracks. Operation Lifesaver which is a HUGE facade says that ALL accidents are the result of the DRIVER. If you really want to know the full story go to Angelsonthetracks.org. The railroad doesn't want you to know the full story so with the help of the government they have 'operation lifesaver'. As railroad enthusiast we need to put some pressure on these Gigantic money making companies to start spending some of there millions of dollars in PROFIT on fixing the incredible amount of ULTRA-HAZARDOUS crossings in the US. Take a look a Europe if you want to see how the railroads should respond to dangerous crossings. 0 fatalities vs. ~400 in the US. Something needs to be done!!!! Thank you and I look forward to some dialog on this. I was a Juror on a crossing accident case and I found out the TRUTH!!!! I absolutely couldn't believe the incredible lack of concern on the railroads part for LIFE. Don't let operation lifesaver fool you. Find out on your own.

http://www.landskroner.com/railkill-mp.html
http://www.landskroner.com/railinvest-dp.html
http://www.angelsontrack.org