Railroad concern for crossing safety

[Anonymous]

My liberal mentioning of Our Wonderful Lord is not an attempt at compassion or validity. God is Truth and all compassion comes from the love of him and realizing that we owe everything to him. We may not be able to understand it all but when we can humbly say that it all comes from him and still continue to love him even through the times when it all don't make sense. I'm sorry you don't appreciate it but God is the creator of EVERYTHING in your life, period. Read the book of Job. Please don't look at me when you think of a Christian, I am by no means the best witness. But I can tell you one thing Our Wonderful Lord and Savior Jesus Christ suffered a horrible death so all people can have the chance to be forgiven of all there sins. His love in me won't let me say that the railroad has done there best to save lives, I won't go into a name calling contest with you, but just pray that you have a realization of that truth.
Mike

[edblysard]

Been married twice, couldnt win with either one, gave up, discovered that "yes dear" works wonders, no matter what the issue.
Stay frosty
Ed

[Anonymous]

Paul,
I don't mean in any way to say that everyone in the rail industry is callous. Based on the comments posted here however the attitude is very one sided. Take a close unbiased look at the industry and tell me honestly that all the Class A's have there house in order. Your exactly right, say something to the goofballs who think they can beat a train but what about the ones who were not trying to beat the train but were at a incredible disadvantage at a known Ultra-hazardous crossing which the railroad at any time can take the intiative and make the improvements often at very minimal cost. Your continual defense of an industry known historically for there safety issues is very sad. Your magazine could be a major player in advocating change to an industry currently concerned about one thing; maximizing profit.
Thank you,
Mike

[Anonymous]

Hi Ed,

The posting you reference may qualify as the longest ever on Trains.com!

More importantly, Ed, the points you've raised from your experiences give a glimpse into the horror of a collision as witnessed by the train crew. I'm thankful providence did not visit such an experience on me during my short railroading stint. But I worked with men who'd experienced similar incidents to yours. One or two of them would talk about it, never callously, always soberly, only after a near-miss or when we saw someone taking an stupid risk, and the impression I had of the deep sorrow they carried is indelible.

I well remember the first near-miss I experienced. Although we had a short train and the brake line recharged rather quickly after the engineer had dumped the air, he took a few extra minutes so the adrenaline coursing through our respective bloodstreams could susbside. The driver of the small blue Volkswagen Beetle also remained for a couple minutes at that rural grade crossing, which was 150 or so yards behind the train. I'm sure he/she had seen us, but tried to beat us to the crossing, realizing at the last seconds he/she wouldn't make it. Somehow his/her tires garnered enough friction on that gravel road to stop the car, the end of the hood just cleared the bottom of the CF7's walkway.

It's nothing compared to what you and others have experienced. It doesn't take much imagination for me to see in my mind what could have happened. And later, when as a reporter I was assigned to cover a gruesome vehicle vs. vehicle collision or single-vehicle fatality. . .well, the memory of a mangled corpse never leaves, and the smaller they are, the worse it is. It's always the innocents who bear the brunt of a bad decision.

Can I get on a soapbox for moment with everyone else? Part of this topic lies at the heart of why it's important for railfans to not trespass. Train crews have enough to worry about without having to watch out for those of use who ought to know better. Of course, it's the 20 percent who create 80 percent of the problems in that regard. We can't control everyone who encounters a grade crossing, but we can make sure our own house is in order. If you know one of the 20 percent, say something to them.

Regards,

Paul Schmidt

[edblysard]

Paul, read my post of 12/31/02 @ 0218.
Yes, he is entitled to his opinion. Yes, I got somewhat carried away. Yes, I apologized to him.
And why would anyone want to live in Oklahoma anyway?
Cougars rule...
Stay frosty.
Ed
Ed

[edblysard]

Look Mike,
There was nothing humorish in what happened, I can think of nothing less funny than watching that little girls father as the wrecker pulled what was left of his car off the knuckle of my engine, nor the total and complete look of disbelief when he realized his little girl was crushed between the two rear doors of his car. I still have nightmares about that, and I think I always will. I am a father too. Three daughters, ages 16, 9 and 3 going on 30. I hope I dont outlive any of them. And sorry about the rude comments, but you dont see what I and other railroaders see every day, and our passion about this subject runs very deep. I agree with you that there are some very dangerous grade crossing out there. I dont know what railroad was involved in the litigation, but regardless, your comment that railroad dont care is not quite true. Union Pacfic and BNSF both have a "crossing near miss report" in their crew packs, (the little plastic wraped package put in the cabs of locomotives containing a few feet of toilet paper, a few paper towels, some hand cleaner and a trash bag) that requires the crew to note the date, time, place and if they can, the license plate of cars running gates, or those involved in near misses.
These are turned in along with the paper work at the end of shift. Some cities even request these, and cite or ticket drivers based on the cards info. What you dont seem to get is that the tracks were ther first, and often there was no need to worry about whether a line of sight was clear or not, as there were no roads out there in the first place. The cities, suburbs and the urban sprawl changed that. They grew up around the train tracks, we didnt build the tracks through their neighborhoods. You should also note that for the most part, the debris, trees, shrubs and other sight blocks are, for the most part, not on the railroads property, but instead belong to landowners who have built right up to the right of way. The railroad has no legal right to cut, remove or change that.
If you read my last few post, you should know by now that the railroads are in a very unenviable position. They have to pay for and maintain a crossing device they didnt get to chose, at a grade crossing they didnt want in the first place, and if anyone gets hurt, they get sued, not the city, who made both of the decisions in the first place. Want to know something really upsetting? The city planners who design your street, highways and bridges are exempt from lawsuits stemming from their bad or incorrect decisions and designs. Thats right, if they build a dangerous curve or intersection, and you get injured there because of the bad design, your cant sue the guys who built it, designed it or approved it. Same with railroad crossings, you cant sue the legal enity that put it there, and decided a simple pair of cross bucks was all the protection needed. So you do the next best thing, you sue the railroad, for somehow not keeping you from driving in front of a moving train. I dont know about you, but when I come upon a crossing with limited line of sight, I stop, look both ways, turn down the radio and listen, and then cross. Its really that simple.
All legal issues aside, it is just flat out common sense. The train can not stop quickly. Due to its size, weight and the very nature of the way a train works, even at low speeds, 20 mph, a train with 50 cars will still travel over 500 feet even if the engineer throws it into emergency braking. Where I work, we have small switch engines, not big road power. Take a guess at what just the locomotive weighs...254,000. lbs.
Thats 127 tons. Only for a locomotive, no cars. They dont have tires with treads, only steel wheels on steel rails, the contact point between wheel and rail is about the size of a quarter. If your going 20 mph, and throw it into emergency, the wheels will lock up, and it will slide, there is no traction like that of a automobile tire. Now add 50 to 100 cars behind that, each with a average weight of 175000 lbs empty. When you go into emergency, the locomotive stops first, and the brakes on the cars start setting up from the front of the train towards the rear, they dont all come on at the same time as you cars brakes do. So now you have 50 to 100 railcars slamming into your rear, adding their kinetic energy to the forward motion, like billard balls banging into each other. You just cant stop something that weighs that much quickly, the laws of physics wont allow it to happen.
On the other point you mentioned, that railroads dont or wont clear dangreous crossings, where I work, we are required to call our tower when ever we find crossing arms down or malfunctioning, or where the grass or tress and shrub have grown up to the point we cant see clearly down both sides of the street crossing our tracks. If it gets to bad, our trainmasters will get in touch with the land owner and advise them that we will take legal action to force them to correct the problem. If it is on our right of way, the MOW crews will take care of it. If it is on the property of one of the plants we serve, inside the plant, we refuse to cross the street, and dont pull or spot their plant till they fix it. I have ridden with a few other crews on class 1 railroads, and can state and will testify that they report any crossing problems, same as we do. They do slow down when they get to a crossing where the drivers habitually drive around the arms. I can also state that the media, both newpaper reporters, and the TV crews that write or report on railroads almost to a one never mention who really owns and is responsible for the type of protection device present at crossings. They fail to do a through job and as a consequence, pass on erroneous information, often leaving the impression that the railroad involved didnt care who got hurt, that they wouldnt change the crossing because it cost money. They fail to mention the railroad dosnt own the crossing, didnt decide what device was present. They of course never assign blame to the driver, even if the driver lived, because the driver, or the drivers survivors would sue them, the reporter. And we all know railroads have so much money they cant spent it all even if they tried, right? So they imply, but never outright state that somehow the railroad was at fault. A well known reporter, whos first name is charles ...... did a series of hour long stories on railroading a few years ago. One of the series involved crossings, and the accidents that happen there. After the story aired on the A&E channel, the accident involving the school bus and a metra commuter train made headlines. Seems the town planners changed the timing on a street light, at a intersection, and altered the distance from the light to the train tracks, shorting it a foot or two. So anyone who crossed the tracks, and ended up facing a red light at this intersection, had only 6 inches clearance behind them and the crossing. And to add to the screw up, they didnt lengthen the approach timing for the crossing arms and lights, so it was possible to drive up to the intersection, get a red light there, and still have a train comming at you. Instead of altering the street light to go green and allow traffic to clear the crossing when the crossing was activated, they left it alone, so you had to wait 30 seconds after the gate came on to get a green light and get out of the way. Guess how much time the approach timming for the crossing was? 28 seconds. Which leaves you 2 seconds short to get out of the way. Poor bus driver didnt stand a chance, she couldnt go forward, cross traffic would hit her. She couldnt back up, no where to back up to, cars were behind her. Out of time and out of space, with six inches hanging into a railroad crossing. And so many kids killed or hurt, because it would have cost the city too much to do the job right the first time. And guess who got sued by everybody? The big bad railroad, for not moving their tracks somewhere, and allowing their train to hit this bus. The reporter I mentioned, named charles, well, he purchased a spot in a well read newspaper, and wrote a retraction on part of his crossing accident story, and apologized for unintentionally misleading the public.
As to your allusions that I dont care, wrong, I care a great deal. I dont want you on my tracks, for any reason. I do want you to get crossings closed, it will make my life and a lot of really good guys and gals life a lot more boring, thank you, I want to be bored stiff, not scared stiff. Did you read in my post about old underpasses? I dont know where you live, but I bet you can find one. It makes more sense to do away with at grade crossings that any other idea. The safest crossings are those that dont exsist. If you travel, I suggest you go to France, ride the TGV, and you will be in for a really eye opening experience. There are no grade crossing on the main line. None. Because the railroad bought every road that would have crossed their tracks, before the tracks were laid, and did away with them all. They also got the French goverment to help, by building underpasses where there was no chioce, such as exsisting highways. Of course that was there, here our legal system wouldnt allow a private company to do that, although it does allow private citizens to file petitons to close dangerous crossings. But the idea is sound. No crossing means no accidents.
And I do have a great deal of sympathy for this lady, it must tear her apart every day. But all you got to see and hear was testimony, and I am sure her attorney had a lot of really gruesome photos. Did he mention that the train crew were made to give urine samples, and take a soberity test, blow and go we call it. Did he mention that they were taken to the nearest terminal, and grilled by their own employer? That the locomotive has a recording device called a incident recorder, sorta like airlines black boxes, and if anything at all from that tape didnt match exactly what the crew said happened, they were fired, and threatened with lawsuites themselves if they said anything to anybody that didnt match this tape? Did he mention that no one bothered to advise the train crew they have legal rights, that they have the right to legal repesentation, and that they can sue the driver? Did they sue the survivor for the mental angui***hey suffered? Bet not. Once you get to see this happen in real time and real life, your vision expands, and you begin to understand that most of the blame lies with the person who can stop, who can make a choice to look and listen, that the train and its crew are captured by the sheer force of the train itself, and they can not steer or stop like a driver can.
There is only so much a railroad can do to prevent someone from not excerising common sense, regardless of their age, anyone with a drivers license has a responsibility to themselves to excerise extreme caution at railroad crossing, whether it it equipped with the full blown crossing protection, or just simple cross bucks. If you cant see far enough down the tracks to tell if a train is coming, then dont cross. If you have to, get out of your car and look. Its you responsibility to stay out of our way, not because we are jerks who dont care, but because we just cant stop, and if you get hit, you will get killed. There is no excuse for not using the best safety device ever invented, your brain. Stop. Look. Listen.
Before you get too entrenched on one side of this issue, and make it your cause, think about this. Lets put you in a position similar to what railroads face. Lets say you own a home, and a group sues you to allow them to build a bike path through you front yard, and then threatens to sue you if anybody using that path gets hurt. And oh, by the way, you have to pay 75% of the cost of building the path, and you have to keep it repaired if it ever cracks. You also have to keep the grass around it mowed, and install lights so it can be used at night, and if you dont mow your neighbors grass also, and someone misses the path and gets hurt, they will sue you because of that also. Thrilled about "your" new bike path yet?
So do this, before you get on the high horse again. You said you were going to do some research, yes? Great! So research it from both sides. Go watch what happens at even the best protected crossing in your town. If you know a railroader, bum a cab ride. Go to the public archives, and look at the amount of litigation brought by the cities to get the right to cross railroad tracks. Learn why railroads never want crossings, ever. After you do that, if you still feel the way you seem to now, we can argue it out over regular e-mail. I am at [e-mail].
And again, sorry about what you and others may have taken as personal attacks, sometimes my passion overules my common sense also.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[wabash1]

the lawyers brain washed you. and that is what they wanted to

[wabash1]

i will never go to this site. only becouse of the way you are pushing it. and to add something else to my previous statements if site for disatnce is a issue to you where i run there is a crossing that is on a curve covered by trees i cant see the crossing till i get about 125ft from it. and i am running 50mph never NEVER NEVER had a close call there. BUT at a cossing i can see and i know the drivers can see couse they look right at you to see if they can beat you is where i ALWAYS have a close call. even a wreck between to cars trying to beat me. and i am only running 25mph there maybe we should kick the speed up to 50 and plant trees there. ill suggest that to the trainmaster .

[wabash1]

that is a lawyers statement. but i will question this. a disadvantage of not knowing if a crossing is safe. well lets see if i can answer this one. pull up look left look right i see no lights. i hear no horns , no bells , hum must be no train safe to cross. now i pull to a crossing look left no lights look to the right head light not sure how far away no crossing lights just cross bucks . i will wait ... car behind me blows horn i wave. i am polite. even with one finger. after a few minutes and plenty of angry drivers i go as the light never got closer. easily done now i am alive. and as the angry drivers pass me they wave at me with the one finger .. i wave back couse i know i am number 1...

[wabash1]

and as i sit here reading your statements you keep saying how you understand that some drivers beat trains and some dont. and how the rialroads could make crossing safer. well let me put it this way maybe you wont believe the lawyers then. when was the last time you heard of a gas tank truck get hit at a crossing. they haft to stop and look and listen. how about the last bus a few more of them . but only becouse they are rushed to deliver the kids home. how about coal or lumber type trucks. yet a few more get the picture now. the reason people get hit is becouse they are rushed pushed to i haft to be there and throw out the window common sense. i rather be late than not get there at all. i dont have anything to do with operation life saver never seen the stuff they do. i do know that they go to high school and teach the new drivers of the dangers of trying to beat us at crossings.

and i will close with this statement. i was there when a high school girl came to a crossbuck crossing she looked at us and waved radio going and never looked the other direction just drove into the path of a 45mph intermodle train. we did everything we could for that girl before she died and we even told her that her mother was on her way. she said mama mama and something i couldnt make out. mom shows up and didnt care about anything her daughter said. all her mother said was she was going to sue the railroad. and she did . and that mother never knew what her dieing daughters last words was. and i will never tell her .

[wabash1]

you have no idea what you are talking about. the railroads have done everything they can at crossings. many of these crossings that have train car incidents are the same crossings we go across in are cars. it dont matter if i am running my train at 10mph or 100mph a stupid driver is a stupid driver. he will try to beat you no matter how fast you are going. the main crossing that we have all the accidents at are straight track nothing in the way as far as you can see. now go figure

[Jackflash]

Was just out in the garage fooling around in
the circuit breaker box and got shocked, guess
tomorrow I'll sue the power company.

[Anonymous]

What it shows is that these people are tresspassing and when they get hit they want to sue the RRs. Some woman's son got hit on his own poor decision and now mom is looking to blame somebody for his bad decision. Oh my poor baby got hit but it wasn't his fault. My question is this: What if a 16 year old boy was out trudging around some natural rock formations on public land. Now said boy makes a poor decision and steps too close to the edge and sadly he falls to his death. Now these formations were made by natures water eroding action. Does the mother shake her fist at God and file suit against him? Fire up a web site about how God should have protected against this tragedy. Put on the web site how to properly sue God? Bottom line, people make bad choices and do error. Sometimes the price is their life. Quit being sue happy and face that people are not infallable and do screw up. And when that happens, there is not always somebody else to blame. Remember, the car is in the right of way. The train is not swerving down the road. If there is a doubt if the crossing is clear of train traffic, stop and look. Very simple. Sorry Mike, but, we can't stop and wipe your *** at every crossing. You have to be responsible as well.

[csxns]

What i didnt like about angelsontrack it has a train comming out of the tunnel and 2 kids and a angel standing on the tracks.Now what are the tracks for what does that show.

[Anonymous]

Mike that angelsontrack lines out how to sue the RR. I remember this story. The kid tried to beat the train and lost. Duh! If that were my daughter, I would die 5 times over. Where would the blame be? On me! Yes me and my ex-wife for not instilling common sense into my girl! Teens do dumb stuff. I did more dumb stuff than I can imagine. My buddy and I were making an attempt at building fireworks when we were 15. Guess what, it blew up in our faces, literally! My best friend lost part of his hand. We were rewarded with going to the scared straight program for constructing an explosive device. Should we have sued the company that manufactured the black powder that we used? My buddy's father for not being home at the time? The company that made the steel pipe that we used? No! We as teens made a bad choice and lived to tell about it. This kid didn't! On that site that woman says "bad crossings kill good drivers," ***. If they cannot see well, stop, look, listen! Proceed when it is safe! O.K. I solved your problem, now you can sleep well at night! How about this one. I'm telling this story from memory, but, the facts are there. Two teenage girls decide to walk down the tracks on a RR trestle. Well they were hit and killed! Sad, but not the RR's fault. Guess what their families attorney used for their reason why the RR should be responsible. "It was a Tom Sawyer like setting," "the girls were enticed by the setting," You have got to be kidding me. What a bunch of ***. Finally I am offended by your liberal use of our Lord, God in your posts. I owe everything good in my life to the Lord. I don't appreciate you using God's name in your posts to add validity or an air of compassion to them. And by the way, I pray that my little girl has the sense not to do things that will put her in harm's way when I am not there to protect her. When a person does not respect a crossing and use common sense when approaching it is on them. The trains don't swerve off of the tracks and hit cars. The cars are placed there by the people that drive them! Hey Mike, have a nice day!

[Anonymous]

Ed, I love you man! When you speak, it is factual. Not based on emotion! Sad thing is that this clown will come back with some "operation lifesaver," facade crap. It is like arguing with my girlfriend. She can be misinformed and dead wrong, but I will never win.

[Anonymous]

Your apparent humor in this is very sad. Do me a tremendous favor and goto the following website and at least consider the rest of the story.
http://angelsontrack.org

You guys have an incredible chance to make a difference by telling your supervisors what you run into every day. What would be there response if you approached them on a regular basis about seeing cars crossing tracks? Do you guys experience some crossing that knowlingly have reduced visible sight distance? I am going to take you up on the offer to watch crossing, because I plan on doing just that. I know there is a sad mentality these days of everyone being in a rush. My concern is more for the person who is doing everything in there power but have such a disadvantage due to the design or layout of the crossing. Don't you think those crossings could be addressed by the railroad? The crossing in question in the case I was on has ~70ft of right of way that could be cleared for improved sight distance, but has yet to be improved. Why is that?
Take care and I promise not to use the caps anymore. I also don't consider myself to be by any stretch of the imagination an expert on crossings. I will promise you that I will be learning as quick as my two brain cells will allow me. I may not be able to find my way home from work but I will know alot more about crossings. Thank you for your dialog aside from the rude comments.
Mike

PS I still love you guys as probably the hardest working bunch out there except for truck drivers(Just kidding!!)

[Anonymous]

Thank you Paul,
Please do me the honor and go to the following website and consider what has been talked about.
http://angelsontrack.org

These are the 'rare' cases, that had a 90% chance of being prevented with some pro-active action by the railroad.
I sat through 2 weeks of testimony and was tortured by the realization that they honestly are more concerned for Profit than human life.

I sincerely appologize to those regular workers like you and me who have a deep concern for safety and the course the industry is headed in but appear to have thier hands tied by the fear of the boss. I know this isn't a blue collar problem, it goes well beyond that. Imagine what seeing Mr. Snow nominated to the Treasury does to the hundreds of families who know the facts and attitude of the railroad in regards to human life.

May God truly give you all the courage to stand up to the BOSS and start making some waves. Doesn't all these comments about seeing people crossing the tracks stir up some question of why and what can we do about it?
Mike

[Anonymous]

Thank you Russel for your comments. You seem to be very much in tune with the what runs this country. If it wasn't for the trucks and trains it would shutdown. My sincere concern is what is a lack of interest in the railroad to be honest and upfront to people like me and you who assume that everything is being done correctly in regards to crossing safety. I am a relatively poor(read:Child support,HA!HA!) blue collar worker who proudly served in the wonderful USN on a submarine for 6 years. I have been a railfan for as long as I can remember. That is the hardest part of this because I have always been very pro-railroad. I have come across this by being a Juror on a case involving a person who died at a crossing. I am by no means an expert on crossings, but can assure you that I will continue to educate myself on what is an inexcusable act of negligence on the railroads part. I'm not talking about the crazy people in a hurry to get to the mall and cross the tracks knowing there is a train coming. I'm talking about someone who is doing everything they can but is at a distinct disadvantage at an Ultra-hazardous crossing. Most of which could be fixed with some pro-active action on the railroads behalf. Please do me a tremendous favor an goto the following site and consider the full story, not just the railroads side.
http://angelsontrack.org

Thank you for your time and May God Truly Bless you and provide with the unbias to at least consider both sides of this incredibly sad story.
Mike

[csxns]

Railroads and Trucking.What if they stop running because they dont woant to be sued.Mike how will the USA keep on going.If they let stupid people get their way and sue prices will have to skyrocket.Mike you must be RICH but sure not a Rail Fan.And Russell Hoyle said that.............

[Anonymous]

Dear forum participants,

Mikepapula has obviously struck a nerve/chord with many of you. The level of debate is terrific and there are many good points of view being expressed. However, please let's don't slump any further into name-calling. You may disagree with an opinion, but please refrain from engaging in public denigration of an individual for expressing and holding that opinion.

Thanks, and Happy New Year to all!

Oh yes (and boy, am I'm asking for it from the Oklahomans), GO COUGARS!!!

OK, you Sooners, publicly denigrate that!

Paul Schmidt
Contributing Editor
Trains.com

[edblysard]

Amen...
ED

[BRAKIE]

Ed,This cat is so far out he thinks like a lawyer,yells like one and knows diddy doo about it.If he took a cab ride over a division two or three times,he would be the one to wake up...Some folks believe anything they read except the truth...Of course it is always better to blame the railroads or Truck lines instead of the nut case behind the wheel.I have on tape many cars SUVs and pick up trucks (including 1 school bus with school kids-yes,I made a copy and turned it in) cutting around gates in front of a NS, CSX and even Conrail trains.Perhaps this cat should take time to sit by a busy rail crossing and street and watch and learn.

Frist cry was crossing watchman,the flashing lights and gates,then flashing ditch lights now stop signs.Whats next? Get the nut case from behind the wheel I hope.

[edblysard]

Hey Larry, do you get the feeling that this guy belives if he types it in caps, that somehow makes it more TRUE and REAL? I wonder if he puts one of his business cards in with a bible when he hustles up a lawsuit.
Hey, lets try this...
DONT DRIVE IN FRONT OF A TRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maby that will make it more REAL and TRUE to him.
Stay frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Lets try this one more time and see if any of it sinks in.
You stated that, because you served on a jury during litigation involving a street crossing at grade with a railroad, you felt that qualified you to speak on this subject. Before I went railroading, I worked for The Office of The Attorney General, State of Texas. I belive I can speak reasonably well on this, so here we go again.
Railroads do not own the street crossing, nor do they have the legal responsibility or legal right to chose what type of grade crossing protection is installed. The grade crossing is a public street, controled by whatever public enity is in charge of maintaining streets.They had to sue the railroads to gain the right to cross private property. Within city limits, your street dept controls them, in the county, most often the county dept of public works, on state owned land, the state has control. The devices at grade crossings are traffic devices, legaly considered in the same group as stop signs, traffic lights, street signs and lane markers. If you ingnore the crossing protection, the local law enforcment can ticket you, just as if they were ticketing you for running a stop sign. No railroad that I know of ever asked to have a grade crossing installed across their tracks. Every street crossing you see involved ligigation, the city, county or state agencies which plan and built roads have to sue the railroads to gain the right to build across the tracks. They have the legal, right, and the moral duty, to design and install grade crossing protection devices. Under the current law, the railroads only input into the decision is to advise the planners on train speeds, and signal times. Beyond that, the railroad has no input, and is prohibited from installing, removing, altering or in any way changing the device. It is not the railroads property, it is the property of whatever legal enity maintains the traffic devices in that area. But due to the quirkiness of our legal system, it is the railroads legal responsibility to maintain the device, once installed, in "good working order", the quote is from the state legistation assigning the legal responsibilities on grade crossing devices, cira 1927.
Here, the railroads were forced to accept 75% of the inital cost of the device, and 75% of the cost of installation. The remainder of the cost is defrayed by whatever enity is in control, the city, county or state goverment. Railroads can not legaly "upgrade" a crossing device, because it isnt their property, it belongs to you, the public. The FRA has a program that activly promotes the closing of grade crossings where traffic density is low, and offers alternative planning such as over or under passes.
The safest and best grad crossing is the one that isn't there.
The reason grade crossing exisist at all is because its cheaper for your public works dept to built a simple grade crossing instead of a overpass. But your local goverments weigh the cost of condeming property, excerising their right of emminent domain, aquiring the necessary land, and the acutal cost of construction of a overpass or underpass against the cost of just pouring a concrete crossing and paying 25% of the cost of a signal gate, and you see which one wins. In whatever city you live in, drive around the older part of the city, and you will notice the the areas built before the late 1920s almost allways have underpasses instead of at grade crossings on all of the major streets, due in part to the fact that, until then, most courts reconized the fact that railroad tracks are private property, and street planners were forced to go over or under the tracks instead of crossing them. How utterly smart of them.
Your complaint agains operation lifesaver really gets me, in part because operation lifesaver make no bones about it, they state that they were started by railroads, funded by railroads, staffed by railroads. Their number one goal, their sole purpose is to educate the public about the consequences of getting in front of a moving train. If the chioce is to drive in front of a train, or not drive in front of a train, how can anyone be responsible but the person driving? At a grade crossing protected by double gates that block both side of the street, I have seen people drive off the road, and across raw trackbed and rails trying to beat a train. How can you protect someone from their own stupidity?
And if the railroads did have the choice of what type of device to install, and lets say they adopt the concrete barricade that rises up out of the street, like the ones used to protect millitary insatllations, guess what, some driver would pull up on top of the device, and when it rose up and dammaged their car, they would sue the railroad for damaging their car. Where I work, we have been sued by a lady who claims "our" crossing gate scratched up her hood and tore the vinyl top on her car when it came down on her as she was weaving thru a crossing, beating a train. She wants us to repair her car, and install rollers on the bottom of the gates, so next time she runs thru them, it wont scratch her paint up. How do you protect someone that stupid?
One of the holy tennents taught to every new railroader is the one about the deadzone. The area just to the outside if the rail, where it may appear your are in the clear, but your really not. If you stand in the deadzone, and a train comes by, well, you get the point. We have it hammered into our heads, day in and day out to not stand in the tracks, stay out of the deadzone, expect movement of a train at anytime. All tracks are considered live, and one of the most often repeated rules here is to expect train movement on any track, from any direction, at any time. Operation lifesaver teaches about the same thing to thousands of school kids all the time. The concept of protecting people from their own stupidity is, thankfully, slowly leaving our legal system. But if you are wishing to assign responsibility for grade crossing safety, then assign it where it belongs, in the hands of the people who design and build you streets. I have yet to read where you offered any other alternative to this problem, except to try to drum up business for what appears to be a attorney friend of your. Heres my alternative. Petition your local goverment to remove as many at grade crossings as they can, those that they must have, make them over or under passes. If thats not feasible, demand they pay for and install double lane gates on both sides of the tracks, with retaining walls and barricades on the edges of the street to prevent drive arounds.
Impower your local law enforcement agency to remove the drivers license of anyone convicted of driving around a crossing gate, and require them to attend a safty class on railroad crossings.
The only thing I keep hearing from you is that I should somehow keep from running my 6000 ton train into your 2 ton car when you drive around crossing gates, or dont bother to look both ways when driving across the tracks, and if I do hit you, it somehow must be anyones elses fault besides your own. You are obviously mis-informed on the operation lifesaver program, and assume it is somehow a goverment program. It isnt. It is a program run by railroads, paid for soly by railroads, and staffed by railroaders, to teach you, at no cost to you, the most simple, basic idea in the world. Stay off the tracks. If you must cross railroad tracks, look both ways. The reason you cant start a operation lifesaver chapter is really simple. You dont belong to the club. What club? The one made up of railroaders who, sadly have been involved in fatal crossing accidents. It is staffed by us, railroaders, who volunteer our time to teach you that if you get in front of a train, and it hits you, you will die. We know from first hand experience. I know from firsthand experience, not only railroading, but from the time spent at the AG's office, that regardless of what the railroads do, no matter how much money or time spent trying to protect people from their own foolishness, some where, some how, someone will still try to beat the train. It is now, has been and always will be the railroads position that the railroad tracks are private porperty, and the only things that belong on the tracks are trains, period. If you want the right to cross private property, it is incumbent upon you to do so in a safe manner, and assume the risk. If you just have to gripe any more about how no one want to protect you from being stupid, then gripe at the people who, for cost reason alone, refuse to install better crossing devices. Or better yet, if you dont like crossings, or are afraid that the huge train, with its bright lights, loud bells and horns might hit you when you stop in the middle of the tracks to talk on your cell phone, then why dont you just move somewhere where there isnt any trains, like say, the artic circle?
Ill even help you pack.
Ed

[Anonymous]

Hello Mr. Schmidt,
First of all thank you for your polite and professional response. I have been called quite a few wonderful names since posting this concern. I wi***he administrator would not permit those to go through, it saddens me to hear the callousness and coldness coming through in the foul language.
Your discounting of the ability of the railroads to share and contribute to the safety of grade crossing is of great concern. How can you honestly say that its not "there problem". You have a multi-million dollar company being protected and shielded by the government and in the mean time hundreds of people are dying going across crossings in which they don't have a chance to cross safely because of such factors as sight distance, percieved speed, etc.. All of which the railroad knows a lot about but doesn't want to effect the profit margin in a negative way so they choose to ignore. All of this being supported by the mentality of "OPERATION LIFESAVER". Not ALL accidents are the result of driver error/carelessness. Its just those so-called rare cases that could be prevented by some pro-active action on the railroads part. Thank you again for you polite response and I look forward to some further dialog on this issue. Something needs to be done and to say the railroad should have no part in it is truly sad. What was the average net profit last year of the railroads?
Thank you,
Mike Papula

[Anonymous]

Why must one be a lawyer to have the common sense to see all the OPPORTUNITIES that the railroad has to PREVENT SOME accidents? I used to think the world of "OPERATION LIFESAVER" until you see it with ALL the facts. To think that all accidents are the drivers fault is incredibly insensitive and self-serving. How wonderful would it be, to be able to drive lets say a truck and not be responsible for ANY accident that you are involved in. Sounds pretty absurd doesn't it!! Well with the support of our wonderful government that is exactly the message "OPERATION LIFESAVER" is putting out. Wake up and look at all the facts. Of course not all accidents can be prevented, but what about issues that the railroad can address but won't because it will effect to "bottom line". That is the saddest part about it.

[Anonymous]

Kind of painful to think of a COMPLETELY preventable accident isn't it. Well just thank the Good Lord it isn't your kid, right. It is fairly easy to put it aside when it isn't close to you. I remember reading about the accident shortly after it happened and thinking how tragic. Well after being subject to 2 weeks of facts that you wouldn't believe and having the chance to meet the family it puts it in a much different perspective. ESPECIALLY knowing that it was about 90% preventable just on the railroads part. That is the aspect of it that makes it EXTREMELY painful for all those concerned. So please for the sake of hundreds of kids that are given a 5 minute education about crossings give up your sad callous attitude and TRY putting it in the perspective of knowing the all the facts. By the way I have found my cause and you probably haven't heard the last of me. The irony of it all is that I have always been a railfan, but the GIFT of life from OUR wonderful LORD is not to be taken lightly or put AFTER the infamous bottom line. I'm sure as a railroad employee you see that sad state everyday, well how about doing something about it? Thanks again and have a truly BLESSED DAY!!

[BRAKIE]

Mike,You must be a lawyer to think like that.If these same butt holes pull out in front of you and 18 wheelers now what makes you think they won't pull out in front of trains-AFTER ALL THE TRAINS CAN STOP THEY GOT AIRBRAKES!they think. If they hit me and I live I'll sue.

Remember,if you hit these bozos in your car after they pull out in front of you and go a 100 feet and stop to make a left turn,they will SUE YOU! Even though they seen you coming at speed and how close you are to the intersection.

[Anonymous]

First of all I will not shut-up, you have just begun to hear the TRUTH. I know it may be hard to take, believe me I sat through 2 weeks of TRUTH. I was floored by what I saw. People don't realize that they don't have a chance at some of these Ultra-hazardous crossings that could be made safer with some proactive action on the part of the railroad. There is no excuse for SOME of these accidents, they could of been prevented. Painful to believe isn't it!! Imagine how the families feel that know this FIRSTHAND. It's not ALWAYS the drivers fault. That is the bottom line. Thank you and may our Wonderful Lord have mercy on you and your callous attitude. I truly pray that you wake up to the TRUTH.