Railroad concern for crossing safety

[Anonymous]

Mike, you say that if the railroad would have cutback the brush, then the visibility would have been improved. This is the only thing that you have said that actualy makes sense! Now what did the Engineer say about this collision? Did these drivers come to a complete stop? If they were not sure if it was safe to cross did they shut up, roll down the windows & listen? If this accident did not happen, I'd say yes the did. Obviously they did not and yes payed for there mistakes.

Ok J bring the hedge clipper, I got the hammer & shovel. We will start from Pen state & go west. Ed you bring the baseball bat. This way after we fix all the X-ing's you can beat the sense into the ones that don't stop, and all the neer misses!! Mike you just sit back and watch how much people STILL dont get it, and still say it's the RR fault; Even If its a near miss, Im sure Ed will set them straight. I hope to God that people learn from this. Only you can save yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!
Icemanmike-Milwaukee
P.S. Im not attacking anyone but the morons that run a train, get hit, and then sues a RR for their own stupidity!!

[wabash1]

Mike i realy dont care if you get this or not see the problem is simple dont confuse you with the fact when your mind is made up. but look at your own statement. I work for a company that puts dollars ahead of human life. that they could easily fix a crossing that dont provide the ability to judge the speed for distance of the train.

ok everyone on this board has determined except for you that if you come to a crossing that has no lights or gates you stop look listen. if we see something like i head light we dont go, we wait. there is no need to judge speed and distance to the crossing if the horn is blowing then he is real close. the problem is that even if there is lights and gates you dont go anyways means train is close. eveyone has come to the conclusion that if you see a head light you dont go. Now what you are doing is just the opposite if you look at what you are saying is give the public the ability to see how many more of them can beat the train. I see your statement as judging speed distance as another way of saying that if i can i will beat the train. and most others on this site do also. so why would i fight and give the others false security of beating me at a crossing. i wont that is the way i will help your couse.

IN closing let me say this if you want to get under my skin you haft to do better than this. I dont care for your couse and neither does anyone else here. If there was facts to this fine there isnt just extra double talk. and for you to ask me to tell my super to make it easier for you to beat me at a crossing is a joke and it is on you. have a good day .

[Anonymous]

Hi Paul,
To think that my comments are in any way a racial or ethnic slur is absolutely absurd and that offends me greatly to because considered in that light. I would challenge your magazine to write an honest to goodness nuts and bolts article about all the hazards of crossings and what all the parties involved(drivers, railroads, government) can do to minimize the risks. In the case I was on the fact that a double fatality occured at the crossing previously should have prompted gates to be put up. The state dropped the ball and the railroad with there hands off approach didn't follow up and even failed to report that double fatality to the FRA. Also about $1500 worth of brush cutting on an a 70ft. right of way would of been enough to give ~500ft of sight distance and possibly save the life of an individual. Your politically correct approach to the viewpoint of railroading is one of the reasons I stopped reading it. Railroads do have the need to bear some of the responsibilty to ensure safety at crossings, contrary to the opinion of the railroad employees and 'Operation Lifesaver'. I believe MUTCD talks about the 'joint' effort between local government and the railroad. Thank you for allowing me the free speech right to voice the little known facts about the other side of the rail industry.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Yes denial is so much easier than actually being objective and considering both sides. I'm sure the pain you experienced in your accidents is beyond imagination. You are helpless in the ability to stop in time, I realize that and am sorry you had to experience it firsthand. As an interesting point of interest, what do you think your company would have done if you suggested that the speed in certain areas be reduced because of some crossings that don't facilitate adequate abililty to judge speed, distance of the train? I find your reference to a racial or ethnic slur is absurd. This is about a company that puts dollars before safety. Give it a try to test it. I'm sure there are some safety issues that you would like to be addressed. Well start pushing them and see what happens. Of course your powerful Union will back you although because of governmental protection which says you can't go on strike, that kinds of limits the power. These comments by the way are the result of freedom of speech, if the truth to you is that painful turn off the computer, close your eyes and pretend that your company is doing everything they can to ensure that both you and some family don't have to experience the pain of an avoidable collision.
Mike

[edblysard]

Amazing how their circlular logic seem to exclude anything thats dosnt agree with their cause. At times, it almost seems as if your argueing with a religous fanatic, someone who refuses to allow facts to corrupt their fiction. Amd like most fanatics, their ability to hear others seems to dissipate as the volume of their retoric increases. I'm with you, just like the TV, if nothing worth watching is on, just turn it off...
Stay frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ok Mike the question of "lack of safety" seems to holding no water. You seem to be the only one that does not see this. I visited the "angles" site and got really annoyed. If this person is so PO'd, then why dont they go out and push X-ing saftey? "My Son, where would you be if you stoped,looked and listened? Would you still be alive? Duh yes!" This is a little more realistic. Harsh, Sad, but realistic!!

My girl & I drove over 500 miles In N. Illinois & SE. Wisconsin looking for "Ultra Hazardous" X-ings. If it was that dangerous it was plastered with signs EVERYWHERE. The most dangerous on was on a blind turn deep in the woods with crossbuck signs. WOW A STOP SIGN!! Gee...how hard was that to fix the problem? It worked for me!! I had to stop, I dident see anything so I shut down my thundering car stereo........OK nothing here time to proceed enjoy the drive. Yea that was a hard way to fix a bad problem after all.

In sales I was always told to be SSS..Sweet Simple Stupid. I guess It realy is true. I just wonder if we stick these people in a circle room and tell them to p in a corner...what would happen
Icemanmike-Milwaukee
Dont get to dizzy!! Ha ha:)

[Anonymous]

After the A&E program aired, a discussion about this topic came up at the A&E board. I was not a visitor there, but was alerted to it by someone who is, and who is a railroader by blood.

At that board there were a couple of individuals making posts, one under the SN "Anglemom", much to the tune of the thread starter here, i.e. Operation Lifesaver is evil and the railroads would like to eat your children for breakfast. I wonder is this person here is not one of those people from the A&E board, as the arguments are boilerplate, as is the blindness to deductive reasoning.

Replies pointing out factual errors made by myself, and by another friend who was alerted to the site, were met by incessant b*ll*** like I have been reading here. Aparently, that state law in most parts of the US is still "stop look & listen", cuts no ice. My friend was attacked as being a profit-monger, because his railfanish SN was BNSFxxxx! (Actual roadnumber withheld.)

My belief is that this person is a polemic, no longer open to discussion, and that this thread is meant to spread their malicious slander about Operation Lifesaver, or is simply posted because they enjoy provoking people. If you want to keep arguing with them, you might want to have some blood presure medicine handy. It's an endless loop.

In the end, I made the briefest, most logical, (and somewhat sarcastic -- okay, extremely sarcastic,) reply that I could make, and then deleted the link from my browser, lest I be tempted to let my emotions get the better of me, or worse, have a premature heart attack of my own.

Alexander Craghead
Portland, Oregon, USA

[edblysard]

Hey, gdc,
Ed here, all you have to do is to go to the sites this guy list, and you see what happened to him. He appeares to be one of those people who think, "if its written in a newspaper,it has to be true" two of the sites are sponsored by a settlement attorney, the other by a distraught and angry mother. All three use incomplete data and edited statements to present a very skewed point of view. This guy cant see the attorney is making claims and statements designed to further his business, I doubt he even knows the attorney is paid a percentage of the award, therefor will say anything to win. I noted where all three sites omitted the remainder of the FRA reports and statistics to futher misinform the reader into beliving the FRA had taken their point of view on this issue. This guy has buried his head in the sand, and will refuse to pull it out , due in part to his not wanting facts to interfere with his "cause". I have several times asked him to give specifics, and only got the same retoric worded a little diffrent, all hidden behind what he claims is his new calling in life. Give him time, and he will find a new cause to promote, like stonehenge, crop circles and area 51. We all know the truth, the goverment has the saucer hidden in that hanger, and atlantis was really sunk by a atomic bomb....As for wasting time replying to him, after several attempts to elicit details and facts from him, and getting no reply, I have determined that A: he works for that attorney or B: His tunnel vision has gotten as bad as his grammer.
I belive I will start that serious post you mentioned, just to see if it draws him out!
Stay frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

I was trying to get to Paul Schmidt who has signed himself as a contributing editor to Trains.com. The intent was to inform Trains of the offensive nature of the original post and implore them to edit or delete these posts. If I've reached the wrong person, I apologize. gdc

[Anonymous]

GDC, are you directing this respones at me? I am tired of misinformed persons (see Mike's posts) taking shots at the industry that I have chosen as a career. I directed the rude remarks at Mike for his misinformed, highly emotionally backed (not fact based) rhetoric. I was just curious.

[Anonymous]

Mr. Schmidt:
Irefused to read these posts beyond the first one, and the one to which I am responding, but obviously the original writer is filled with vitriolic intent. At the beginning of this forum page, Trains says it will not allow posting of rude remarks, profanity and attacks on others. During my 35 years on NS, I was involved with 5 incidents, two of which resulted in fatalities, one of them was multiple (4). These remarks fall into those categories. It is a personal attack on me both from behind the throttle and as a member of administration. Certainly Trains would not allow racial or ethnic slurs. Well, the comments by this person amount to that level of insult. Let's hope Trains will stand behind what it says and delete this person.
Incidently, if someone wants to start a serious and constructive discussion about this topic, I'll be glad to join in. My firt incident occurred nearly 39 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday. A lot of people helped me through some difficult times.
Thank you for your time. gdc

[mccannt]

Paul, thank you for that honest, reasoned, practical reply. I have served as an Operation Lifesaver representative for almost seven years, and I take great pride in our organization's ability to educate the public about being safe around grade crossings and rights-of-way.

Operation Lifesaver IS NOT some mindless tool of the railroad industry. It is true that it has a rail-oriented focus and that it was created by railroaders, but it has expanded to include non-railroad volunteers, including schoolteachers, law enforcement officers, firefighters, business owners, railfans and many others who understand the need to provide this important safety message.

One of the biggest challenges to speading the OL safety message is trying to convince people that rail and transit rights-of-way are NOT, except in rare circumstances, public pathways for vehicles, pedestrians, bicyclists, ATVs, snowmobiles or any other conveyance.

Railroaders know the size and the speed of their trains; they are intimately aware of what they can do. When OL presenters compare a 3,000 pound automobile to a 12,000,000 pound train, it is not some idle exercise designed simply to shock the audience -- these figures are REAL!

In a perfect world, we would not need Operation Lifesaver because we would have grade separations and people would not trespass. But it is an imperfect world, and there are more than 200,000 grade crossings out there and more than 200,000 miles of railroad or transit lines where trains and vehicles and people meet every day -- and not always under the best of circumstances.

[wabash1]

No he did not sue. that was only becouse lawyers was not invented yet. then when they was he was sad becouse he didnt think they be like rabbits and multiply that fast. that is why they always got the fastest transportation to be at the accedent site first . I am wondering why they have not patitioned the goverment to allow them on engines so they wont waste time gathering facts later at crossing accedents they will already be there. saves time and money. just a thought.

i do know this for a fact there has been several times a trooper rode on the engine with chase cars of city county and state following us, everytime somebody come around the gates or a near miss happened he would radio a discription to the other cars. lots of money was made those days.

[wabash1]

believe it or not i dont think i am that old. but ask my daughters they tell ya i am old head. i believe in common sense, something this industry lacks. but i also get in more trouble becouse i will tell it like it is noo beating around the bush (most times). but i can see trying to get this guy unbrainwashed is a waste of time becouse he dont want to be confused with the facts becouse his mind is made up. I get up and make it my goal evey day to try and kill somebody at a crossing. i live for this and wouldnt change anything. now if you believe this ill sell you some slightly used lottery tickets....

[Anonymous]

Somebody get a toilet and a toothbrush. As much crap that flows from his mouth, he definitely needs a place to put it and probably will need to bru***o get rid of that horrible odor eminating from his pie hole.

[Anonymous]

Wabash, you are old school. I like that! Thats why I get along with old heads so well. Life was simpler back in the day. You were responsible for yourself and your actions. Thank God my Dad, Grandfather, and old head friends have passed some of that on to me. To quote my Dad, "Be a Man son and be responsible for what you do."

[Anonymous]

I found a website of a mother who's son was killed by lightening. Her quote was "lightening kills good people," she goes on to outline how to sue the national weather service for not protecting her son from such an avoidable tragedy. Please do me the honor of visiting the web site imableedingheart.misinformed

[Anonymous]

Jesus did endure a horrible death to cleanse us of our sins. Did he blame everybody and sue them?

[Anonymous]

Yep, Jack. I would go to angelsontrack.com....They outline how to pick a good attorney. You should also consider suing the RR. After all they are the evil empire that delivered the coal to the power plant that generated the power that shocked you and brought you to within an inch of your death. LOL
Ken

[Anonymous]

"thank god for right to work laws"? What? I dare you to come say that at one of our union meetings! See what happens.

[Anonymous]

Apparently, Mike has not read Ed's or anyone else's posts--contact the local government whose roadway crosses our tracks!! They decide what kind of protection for that crossing. Also, personal responsibility for one's actions at grade crossings is not an issue. It's always the railroads fault--except for one time we hit a pizza delivery guy--he didn't want to give a pizza away so he tried to beat us--bad move. He wasn't injured but his pickup was. It was our fault until the cop behind him when he ran the signals cited him. Pizza anyone?

[edblysard]

Not so much in support of my company, but the industry in general. No, I didnt change my tune. I belive you have a right to your opinion, wether I agree with you or not. And just so you know, I left the Attorney Generals Office to go railroading, its what I have always wanted to do, ever since I was a kid. No one held a gun to my head, so save your sympathy, and yes, I took a cut in salary...and find me any company that truly cares about people before the bottom line, and I will be their biggest booster, heck, I will even recruit for them.
But you seem to be under the impression that all railroads, (lumped together it seems) would allow civilians to be killed before they spend a dime to fix a crossing. You mention a ultra hazardous crossing, but never specify where it is, or whos line it crosses. You speak about railroads as if they are somehow public servants, or a public utility, but they are not.
Are you afraid to mention what railroad, and where this crossing is,? Afraid they will sue you? You keep challenging myself and others to take a stand, yet seem to be reluctent to take one yourself, except in the most general of terms. I have yet to read your solution the this hazardous crossing, yet mine is out there for debate. The web site you keep pushing is somewhat skewed in its approach, in that is misquotes railroaders, and fails to provide the rest of the #s about grade crossing accidents. The part where it claims 22% of crossing accidents occur at gated crossings was correct, but the author failed to include the remainder of the report which also stated that of the 22% gated crossing accidents, almost 100% of those involved drivers or pedestrains who drove thru, around of under the arms. The author also failed to mention that at most of the accidents where there was only a stop sign or crossbucks, theses crossings had been there for decades, and that most accidents at them were the result of driver fatigue and or inclement weather. I am well aware that most industrial accidents occur at or near the end of the shift, or on fridays. I am also aware that most automobile accidents occur within three miles of the victims home, and are due in large part to the victim being lulled into a false sense of security while driving familar ground. They have driven this road so many times they could do it with their eyes closed. They use the same railroad crossing every day, and have never been hit, so why should tonight be diffrent? And thats exactly when they get tagged..
I truly feel for the lady, I would die if it was one of my kids. But I have already taught all three of them to stay away from the tracks. They all have come to where I work, to bring me lunch/dinner, and all three are well aware of the damage trains can do. As I suggested before, do a little more research on your own, instead of depending on the web site of a grief stricken, loving, but I am sure somewhat angry mother. I know she is mad, I would be to. It is senseless and painful when a child dies in what seems to be a preventable accident. But, all the website states is he was killed, it dosnt give any details. Was he speeding, are there any skid marks that were measured? In the case you seem to have taken to heart, the one you never give any details about, were there any contributing factors such as weather? You keep referring to it, yet fail to explain why this crossing is so hazardous.
So again, before you get to high on the soap box to get back down, do the research for yourself.
And the concending attitude you seem to have adopted it wearing a little thin. Youv'e been making accusations without stating or giving facts, just using general terms. Its like condeming all airline based upon one plane crash. And by the way, travel by train, based on per million miles travled, is safer that driving your car to the grocery store, or walking around your block. You have a better chance of being hit by lighting that a train.
Ed

[cabforward]

somebody get a net.. this guy is foaming at the mouth..

[Anonymous]

Find me a Democrat who is pro-life and I'll vote for them. Sadly I had to pick Republican. Maybe Socialist party next time. Do a little unbiased research on your own, though you may not want to. It may cause you to change you mind. Hate to do that don't we. Yeh! A multi-million dollar company killing people every day and being protected by the government. Yep! sounds like good old capitalism in the USA. Wake up. Snow for Treasury Sec. confirms that even further.

[Anonymous]

You have appeared to change your tune slightly in support of your company. Good to hear it. As for unions, you hit the nail on the head. Thank the Good Lord for right to work laws!!! As for wives, I could only tolerate someone who knows everything from heart surgery to fixing cars for so long before I started to lose my mind. And A BIG(sorry!)amen to the truth!!! Our Wonderful Savior was the last person on the earth that had it. (though my wife would disagree,HA!HA!). Indeed every story has two sides. As for your job, I probably wouldn't last five minutes. My hats off to you in all seriousness!! I'm sure if you voiced a complaint about the safety aspect of needing the required breaks for the length of your shift they would accomadate you......pardon me while I pick myself off the floor from laughter. I used to work for a "profit" company and know all about that and 12 hour shifts, safety didn't play into that picture to well. As a point of interest, did you know that ~75% of all accidents occur on the last 4 hours of a 12 hour shift? Sadly our wonderful union wouldn't fight it either. Wake up and realize that your being flogged every night so a handful can live the good life, while you risk your life every night. Take your work ethic and put it to good use in a company that truly cares about you AND(sorry) safety.
Mike

PS: Humor me and take a stand on the required breaks. I promise to help you out when they fire you.

[edblysard]

Well, if being in the bottom 1/4 of the roster is high, ok. After 6 years, I have come to the conclusion that unions, like the "bosses" they proclaim to distrust, are are corrupt as the people they "distrust". After this last contract, I think they have become as much a big business as "big business". As for not winning arguments with my wife?, well, once you meet her, you will understand. As for truth, with the exception of God, and the Lord Jesus, I have yet to find any mortal who can honestly say they have all the answers, much less know the "truth". Every issue has two sides. And as for my cushy job, you come switching with me any day of the week, and I can guarantee you that within a hour, you will swear hades rose up and swallowed you. 8 to 12 hours in 100 degree, 95% humidity weather, flat switching 130 to 300 cars, with a great big 20 minute lunch break, yeah, thats real cushy. So come on, lets see what you got, we are at 8900 clinton drive, houston texas. Right at the turning basin for the houston ship channel, across the street from gate 8. I work right under the control tower, kicking cars from 3:00 pm till midnight or later...hope to see you there.
By the way, what did you say you did for a living?

[csxns]

I remember one during the Family Lines years one driver will always bragg about if he sees the locomotives in a certin spot he will always get to the crossing way before the train .That was when the FLS were expermenting with double barrel coal trains the crew sometimes called them that.He saw the locomotives and did not see coal cars in front of the locomotives so he did hit the first locomotives he lived and he said it was his last time hitting a train and he lost his 240 SX.

[cabforward]

mr. mike:

your comments about unsafe r.rs. are like ufo believers: they claim all kinds of experiences with aliens, but have not one shed of EVIDENCE to support their claim.. exactly how many r.r. accidents were due to the train operation? what type of crossing was involved? was it day or night? clear weather, rainy, etc? what about the road's approach to the crossing: straight, blind, oblique?
how about traffic on that day, heavy, moderate?

anybody can yell "FOUL!" ..a truly concerned person starts a dialog with FACTS, FIGURES, supportive documents from witnesses, locals who reside nearby and fire, police, ems agencies..
you have come to the table with nothing and ask us to believe everything.. any human being with a heart is upset over having an accident, or nearly having one which injures adults or children.. we get that..
but, if you are commenting here because you want someone to hold your hand and wail about injustice and dirty tricks by a company with deep pockets, you are in the wrong place..

out of curiosity, who did you vote for in 2000? i'm betting it was gore..

***
railroad crossing,
look out for the cars;
can you spell this
without any Rs?

[Anonymous]

I won't even try to respond to that one, other than you must be a really cool dude.

[Anonymous]

Yes, sadly in an effort to not rock the boat and lose your cushy railroad job you also have kept the blinders on. I suppose you must be high on the seniority list, I can think of no other explanation for your continual defense of a historically corrupt industry. I would think a union man would have more courage to speak the truth than that. My dad lost his job in 81' fighting for safety issues that needed attention in the airline industry.
Mike