British Railway Operations

[Tulyar15]

On Saturday, I travelled on a railtour to the West Somerset Railway, hauled by the preserved Class 52 Diesel-hydraulic loco "Western Champion". The WSR were having a 1965 themed gala, that year being the last summer of steam on the Western Region of BR as was. I had haulage by cl 35 "Hymek" D7076 and from D1010 "Western Campaigner".

On display at Bishop's Lydeard was 47 832 in Victa Westlinkl livery - this new Open Access operator is planning to operater a Bristol - Minehead train service for people staying at the Butlin's holiday camp at Minehead.

[cogloadreturns]

There is another excellent site for disused/ dismantled railways which can be found at http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/.

For those who like their "boxes" then I can recommend this site..   http://www.tillyweb.biz/ 

British and Irish boxes can be found on there including Cogload's old box in Cornwall.

[John Bakeer]

0730 Stockport time.

Simon, Just seen your post re. Haworth, I hope the Jensen will be available around lunch today. I need some Yorkshire air. 

[Simon Reed]

The Jensen will be available for inspection in Haworth Yard this weekend.

Providing it is'nt under water again.

[Simon Reed]

Likewise!

I lived in Gloucester for a few years in the early 90's and found the railway history of "The Forest" fascinating - if a little intimidating.

For US readers - the Forest of Dean is a bit like the backwaters of the Appalachians. 

Not sure that Herne Hill should be included though. I've also lived in South London (Penge) and although Herne Hill Station is scruffy it's still busy. 

[Tulyar15]

Some good pics on that site. I've spent many hours exploring the old lines in the Forest of Dean and Wye Valley. On the Monmouth - Chepstow "Wye Valley" line, a bridge which used to carry the line over the river at Redbrook remains in use as a footbridge. It's well used as it enables people driving on the main road from Monmouth - Chepstow to park at Redbrook Football Club and then cross the river and have a beer and may be some food too at 'The Boat' pub. At this point the river is also the Anglo-Welsh border!

[zardoz]

New to this thread, so sorry if this was posted previously.

This is a link to a list of abandned railways in the UK. http://www.urban75.org/railway/

 

[John Bakeer]

Slight change,

Any of you guys affected by all this work on re-enfocing road overbridges to carry 50 ton trucks(lorries) over the railways.  They are doing one 100 yds from my home and the dust and noise is horrendous. It is particularly bad at weekends (12week programme) due to requiring line posesstions, and the effect on road traffic is awful. I am informed that there are about 100 to do, not sure where though, there must be that many within the Stockport area alone. The WCML is just recovering from the track and signal upgrades when they are being hit by this. Wonder who's footing the bill? Muggins Joe public for my money, another subsidy for the trucking industry!

Had a look at the ACLOCO web site, Chesterfield is not far from here, will try to get SWMBO to let me go to one of the the July open days.

 

[Simon Reed]

Martin,

Have alook a this site:-

http://www.aclocogroup.co.uk/

for full details - they own it.

[M636C]

I saw this on Drehscheibe-online:

Locomotive 89001 Badger repainted in BR Intercity livery.

Can somebody tell me something about this locomotive / class?

Is it the first locomotive to be repainted in historic BR Intercity livery?

http://drehscheibe-online.ist-im-web.de/forum/read.php?30,3350440

greetings,

Marc Immeker

 

While InterCity is indeed a correct livery, I rather liked it in the GNER dark blue and red!

On one of my visits to London, I managed to get a couple of photos of it in service in GNER blue at Kings Cross (someone must have published its roster, because I knew what train it was working).

It had been preserved before GNER purchased it, and it was the only locomotive actually owned by GNER rather than leased from a Rolling Stock company.

It must have been cheaper to build and maintain than the Class 91 which was a bit of a triumph of technology over common sense.

M636C

[John Bakeer]

Marc,

Go to the UKtrainsim.co.uk site where you will find a feed onto the Badger story, they were largely instrumental in raising funds for the preservation project.

 

[MStLfan]

I saw this on Drehscheibe-online:

Locomotive 89001 Badger repainted in BR Intercity livery.

Can somebody tell me something about this locomotive / class?

Is it the first locomotive to be repainted in historic BR Intercity livery?

http://drehscheibe-online.ist-im-web.de/forum/read.php?30,3350440

greetings,

Marc Immeker

[Tulyar15]

A similar problem is affecting rail schemes in Wales, as no single party has a majority following the recent elections. Labour are still the biggest single party, but there was talk of a rainbow coalition between the Conservatives, Liberal-Democrats and Plaid Cymru (Welsh Nationalists). Not surprisingly this has not happened and Labour are still searching for a coalition partner; previuosly they had to rely on the support of the Lib-Dems after they lost their majority in a by-election.

[John Bakeer]

Just heard that the Edinburgh tramway construction is stil progressing even though Old Fish Head is threatening to abandon the project. As he needs a coalition partner to remain in power, he may get his wings clipped (I hope). Talk about the inmates running the asylum! 

  

[cogloadreturns]

Ab sections and semaphores are slowly being eliminated in various parts of the country. As radio signalling moves up the scale as well, it will become a lot rarer. The reason why semaphores are still around is basically because they are cheap and with the level of service (say 1 train ph in each direction) there may not be business case at present to replace them.

On the busier lines a form of CTC is in operation in terms of 3/4 aspect and very short block signalling. The intensity of the service demands it for a start. Come 2012 Liverpool Street will be a very interesting place to work as it controls the Great Eastern to toward Stratford.

In various areas RETB (Radio Electronic Token Block) exists as a primative form of radio signalling. This relies on a Short Wave radio bandwith and as a result is becoming life expired and will be replaced in future. Some of the hoo ha over radio signalling is in my mind a little balony as though it will replace the lineside kit in some places, this will not be universal as there will be controlling lights in big junction areas and the like.

The UK railway system is scheduled. There is no waiting until it makes 10000 tonnes of freight here. There is, in theory, a slot for every train. Indeed the entire privitisation infrastructure is predicated around that simple notion.  

 

[Tulyar15]

We just call them "towers", or manual interlocks, to be proper. Sounds like you still have alot of them, we have very few, diminishing everyday. I remember some. It used to be an institutution here. I here CTC and TWC doesn't work there? I've seen maps, quite a cross network, I'm not surprised.

So, if I'm correct, and please correct me if I am, Britan runs it's trains like we run trucks over the US interstate? The Gov. owns and taxes the property, the fuel usage and money made, but private firms run their own trains over this Gov. owned property property, without much as far as scheduling? So they got to pay the Gov. to run trains? If that's the case, I'm surprised ANYONE'S bought a railroad.  It's been promoted here. Never went, nor will it ever, go anywher. Wasn't Knieling a big propenent of unit trains on "open access" mainlines?

You've more or less got the picture right. Network Rail, the organisation which owns the infrastructure and has the final say on scheduling, is nominally a private company (the last Conservative govt. originally intended to keep it public owned but when it realised it would not make much money from selling the TOC's it decided to sell the infrastructure, as all the land that came with it would make it attractive to private investors - particularly as it was sold at about a third of its value. But after Labour came to power , Railtrack, as the infrastructure owning co. was then called went bust - possibily politically engineered - and was replaced by a nominally private but effectively state controlled co. called Network Rail. One good thing about NR is that though govt. controlled it is not subject to Treasury spending caps, so perhaps they hit on the right solution, even if by accident rather than design.

Going back to "towers" there are still a few left here - Shrewsbury and Worcester are two of the best places to see them. My brother has just updated his website with extra pics at:-



http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Shrewsbury/index.htm
http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Worcester/index.htm

[Murphy Siding]

I've never seen a 66 needing assistance.

I know a guy on another trains related forum who has bought a DeLorian! 

I know somebody who bought a stainless steel DeLorian, and had it painted red.  Sadly, that wasn't the dumbest thing he had done in his life.

[John Bakeer]

I've never seen a 66 needing assistance.

I know a guy on another trains related forum who has bought a DeLorian! 

[Simon Reed]

There have been rumbles of discontent about the 66's for a while - I think we've touched on some of them previously.

A friend drove one recently on a wet day. He said that rainwater was literally pouring in through the secondmans side window.

He also says that the build quality varies drastically. Some are smooth, quiet and solid whilst others vibrate and leak. This may be the one of the reasons that it has'nt become an issue until recently.

In the unlikely event of an embargo by unions, the network will stop. There is nowhere near enough spare motive power to cover for the shortfall. Furthermore, whatever may or may not be amiss with the 66's they are certainly reliable and capable of far more intensive diagramming than their predecessors. 

[snagletooth]

Basically the tracks are owned by Network Rail who also set the timetables and crew the signal boxes ("Control Towers" I think you call them in America) , which charges the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) for using them. The rolling stock was sold to Rolling Stock Companies (ROSCO's) who lease the stock to the TOC's.But there are over 20 TOC's and the system has proved unwieldy. The thinking behind privitisation was a mish mash of different ideas. The purpose of separating infrastructure from operations was to try and provide a level playing field for competition. But when the last Conservative government found that no-one wanted to buy the TOC's for fear of having to face competition from "open access" operators it gave guarantees to the buyers of TOC's to limit compeition. (The passenger TOC's are effectively management contracts under which bidders bid to provide a certain minimum service for a specified period of years. The freight TOC's have more commercial freedom.) So very few open access operators have come along so far, and only one that operates passenger trains though another is applying for a licence to operate passenger trains.

We just call them "towers", or manual interlocks, to be proper. Sounds like you still have alot of them, we have very few, diminishing everyday. I remember some. It used to be an institutution here. I here CTC and TWC doesn't work there? I've seen maps, quite a cross network, I'm not surprised.

So, if I'm correct, and please correct me if I am, Britan runs it's trains like we run trucks over the US interstate? The Gov. owns and taxes the property, the fuel usage and money made, but private firms run their own trains over this Gov. owned property property, without much as far as scheduling? So they got to pay the Gov. to run trains? If that's the case, I'm surprised ANYONE'S bought a railroad.  It's been promoted here. Never went, nor will it ever, go anywher. Wasn't Knieling a big propenent of unit trains on "open access" mainlines?

[Tulyar15]

I suspect a compromise will be worked out. In any case I cant see all 500+ class 66's being grounded. Where would they get replacement motive power from?

In any case if their cabs are really so bad, how come its taken the unions the best part of decade to complain?

[MStLfan]

Hi, 

Just when I have gotten used to the ugly machines operating here in the Netherlands I come across this press report / press release (original source unknown to me) via http://forum.rolandrail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2319 (and http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/)

Freight shutdown threatened over Class 66 cab conditions

TRAIN DRIVERS' union ASLEF has warned that its members will refuse to drive Class 66 locomotives from June 18th unless cab conditions are dramatically improved. General secretary Keith Norman has branded the cabs 'unhealthy, unsafe and unsatisfactory'. The union gave a negotiating deadline of February 28th for the freight companies involved – EWS, Freightliner, GB Railfreight and DRS – to bring forward proposals to improve the cab environment but no significant progress has been made to date.

The move comes following continuing comments from train crew that have complained of poor/broken seating, high temperatures, draughts, excessive noise and vibration. It is apparent that some of the '66s', which began being introduced in 1998, are suffering badly from water ingress from the air-horn area and rust around window frames.

The action is being recommended as part of ASLEF's 'SQUASH in the cab' campaign promoting a Safe, Quiet, User-friendly, Air-conditioned, Specially-seated & Healthy cab. The union has highlighted an increase in signals passed at danger during hot weather periods, saying these statistics demonstrate that safety is being compromised by a failure to provide modern air-conditioned cabs. It goes on to say that it is impossible for drivers to maintain the necessary levels of concentration in a cab that lacks basic facilities such as ergonomically-designed seating.

Operators looking for solutions

The freight companies are keen to improve the situation. GBRf, having experimented with a new seat design, has committed to fleet-wide upgrade and is also investigating a cab cooling system and the fitting of side window blinds. The information has been shared with Freightliner and DRS, who are looking to make their own improvements. EWS says it has made proposals to ASLEF and is awaiting feedback.

It is likely that a compromise will be reached and a programme of improvements agreed but there is no doubt that union 'blacking' of the GM/EMD machines would have serious implications with around 75% of all freight in the hands of Class 66 locomotives. If action does come about it could produce one last 'summer of fun' for enthusiasts if companies such as EWS are forced to return alternative motive power to traffic as cover.

Comments, anybody?

To see the interior of a German class 66 go to this site, the owner managed to take pictures of the interior of HGK DE670 (HGK = Hafen und Güterverkehr Köln, a German private open access operator with its own tracks in the Cologne / Bonn area in western Germany) via a side window:

http://rolfs-n-bahn.de.tl/Class66.htm

greetings,

Marc Immeker

[mhurley87f]

Tulyar,

Many thanks for the details. Will have a look-see later when I get a chance.

Hwyl,

Martin. 

 

[Tulyar15]

I dont off the top of my head, but the info is probably on the tour operator's websites:-

www.pathfindertours.co.uk

www.past-timerail.co.uk

www.vintagetrains.co.uk

I had an excellent birthday treat on bank holiday Monday. I went to Shrewsbury with my brother and he contacted the authorities at the castle (the grounds are open to the public for free, but to go in the tower costs £2.50. The tower is a museum dedicated to the Shropshire regiment) and go permission for us to go up on the roof of the tower, which is an excellent vantage point to photograph trains from! The weather held off till we got back to the station so some superb shots were had!

(See my brother's site at http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Shrewsbury/index.htm for some shots of Shrewsbury and a track diagram)

I also saw "Green Arrow" on the Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway on Saturday. I suggest anyone who wants to see it running goes to their gala weekend from this Thursday as this could well be the last chance to see it in steam. (see http://www.gwsr.com/html/latest_news.html)

[mhurley87f]

Saw the Duke in action last Saturday. Ran to time past 87Fland and seemed to be more than comfortable with the timings and load on the drawbar. Very impressive locomotive and a credit to everyone involved with the engine.

Must say how nice the chime whistle sounded (pity the drivers never offer an obligato or two nowadays), a beautiful reminder of the Standard Class 5 days on the Central Wales line back in the 1960s, but the sound and rhythm of a 3 cylinder engine quite baffled some of the locals more used to GWR/BR 2 and 4 cylinder classes!!

Sadly, the King was over 2 hours late coming down, and the train was caped at Carmarthen to run back in the original timings. Weather was very wet, which again put a damper on things.

Psst, anyone know when the next Giant Kettles are due around 87Fland?

Martin

[Tulyar15]

Still the Welsh Assembly are re-opening the Ebbw (pronounced "Eb-oo") Vale line and they may yet fund additional loops on the Cambrian. They've also funded additional rolling stock for Cambrian and extension to the depot at Machynlleth. But there was a **** up with that - the extension was supposed to long enough to hold another two cl 158 vehicles, which are 75ft long but they only built it long enough for two cl 150 vehciles (60 ft)!

[mhurley87f]

Thanks for the link, and yes, it's pretty gloomy reading for us living in places BBC reporters always add the prefix "remote" (presumably they've never ever been there, or it's just a bit too far beyond Potters Bar, Didcot, Woking, etc. etc.

That said, if the s**t hits the fan, we just might see our Assembly Members finally try to break the inertia here.

After all, if we had a suitably timed and well marketed service that could get us to and from our capital city to :-

1. allow us to get in a business day, or
2. attend a big sports fixture, or
3. attend Universities / Colleges in a wider radius, or
4. get specialist health services, as well as
5. get to our airport reasonably quickly,

without being hostage to perol prices, parking charges, delays from accidents / congestion on our one and only motorway, I'm sure the footfall figures could increase sufficiently to put an entirely different spin on things.

You don't need a train every half-hour, or even an hourly service really, to make things more attractive to potential travellers, rather someone to listen to what the people's reasonable expectations are, before drawing up an attractive yet affordable timetable.

Let's wait and see.

Hwyl,

Martin 

 

[cogloadreturns]

The cynics amongst us may argue that the press release from Central is a bit of spinning after the seeming unofficial sunday working bans going on by various traincrews! The service has been decimated on occasions recently!

Anyway; this may make interesting reading for some. The annual survey of passenger numbers at every station in the UK, although it is arguable that the data maybe flawed.

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1529

Not the best of reading for the far north or the Heart of wales for a start.

[mhurley87f]

Great weekend coming up - Saturday we'll have #71000 "Duke of Gloucester" running a Birmingham International - Fishguard Harbour Steamex (down via Swansea District Line/up via Landore), and on Sunday, #6024 "King Edward 1" running a Bristol Temple Meads - Pembroke Dock Steamex (down via Landore/up via SDL).

Big bonus for me is that my 8 year old Grandson, who lives in Jersey (UK's Channel Islands, that is, not NJ), finally gets a chance to see BIG STEAM up close and personal. The King is scheduled to take water at my home village station, so that's about as close up and personal you can get).

So it'll be Anoraks all round all weekend, so let's hope the weather stays kind.

Hwyl,

Martin 

 

 

[Tulyar15]

Indeed! Whilst "Farce Group" have shortened train formations in the Bristol area, in the W. Midlands the much maligned Central Trains are strengthening trains as described in an e-mail I received:-

"National Express owned Central Trains will introduce longer trains on selected routes following the introduction of the summer rail timetable on Sunday (20 May).

As a result of the new rolling stock formations around 1,000 daily extra seats will be provided for passengers, according to the train operator. The additional carriages have been made available by the transfer of nine 4-car Class 158 diesel trains from the First/Keolis owned Transpennine Express franchise, which has recently completed the roll-out of a new Siemens Desiro fleet. The 36 Sprinter carriages were built by British Rail Engineering in the late 1980s and early 1990s and have air conditioning and a top speed of 90mph.

West Midlands services that will be lengthened include the busiest commuter train of the morning between Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton-Birmingham as well as the three key evening return commuters trains. The 1719 departure from Birmingham New Street to Worcester and Hereford will be lengthened from three to four carriages, providing an extra 76 seats, while the 1659 and the 1259 departures from Birmingham and the 0735 departure from Hereford to Worcester and Birmingham will also have more seats available. There will also be extra carriages added to some services on the Cross City Line and Birmingham Snow Hill Lines. The 0915 service from Worcester Foregate St to Birmingham Snow Hill will call additionally at Blakedown and Hagley to plug a gap in morning services.

On West Midlands local services additional seats will be available on Walsall-Birmingham services as longer electric trains are used in the mornings. More of these trains will run through to Birmingham International for Birmingham Airport and the National Exhibition Centre. The introduction of longer electric trains means that the diesel services that depart from Rugeley at 0623 and Hednesford at 0736 will terminate at Walsall for connections to Birmingham.

Selected long distance and Central Citylink services will also have carriages added, including services between Cardiff and Nottingham, Norwich and Liverpool, Stansted Airport and Birmingham New Street, and Northampton and Birmingham New Street. Other timetable improvements include the introduction of a new Sunday service between Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Liverpool, to provide stops at Liverpool South Parkway for Liverpool John Lennon Airport.

Richard Bowker, chief executive of National Express Group, said: "The acquisition of these additional trains is great news for us and for passengers across the Central network. We are committed to ensuring that we continue to look at ways to address the issue of capacity and to ensure that passengers get the highest level of service when travelling with us."

Cllr Gary Clarke, chairman of Centro-West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority, said: "This is excellent news for rail users and in particular the thousands of people who commute to work by train. Rail has become so popular that it is now used by one in five of all Birmingham city centre workers. Adding 36 extra carriages will help meet the increasing demand from commuters using the train to beat rush hour congestion on the roads."


Meanwhile I saw 37 410 on the Cambrian coast line on Saturday working a Pathfinder Rail Tour to Pwllheli. Got some lovely footage of it returning over Barmouth Bridge in the afternoon!