British Railway Operations

[mhurley87f]

I'm with Tulyar on this one. Arriva would seem to have cracked how to appeal to / sell snake oil to (you choose) our civil servants, as there seems to be absolutely nothing in their track record (no pun intended) to suggest that they might ever come near to delivering what the passenger-***-taxpayer requires.

The problems Tulyar speaks of at Wolverhampton also happen down this part of the world. While we rail minded people fully appreciate that bridge bashing incidents, farm animals on the line, etc., etc., are not jokes made up to excuse late running, but when such incidents occur over a hundred miles away, and it's your train that gets stopped short leaving a wait of an hour or more 'til the next one, you'd give anything to be served by a franchise that early on saw the sense in arranging "International Rescue" trains as emergency back up.

Passengers are not mugs; they know all too well that Murphy's Law will strike from time to time, and will put up with the ensuing service disruption in reasonably good humour. But that can all change if they notice that the local Train Operating Company doesn't actually give a fig about service and hasn't got a Plan B anywhere in its locker.

I think another Welsh contributor to this Forum has remarked that Arriva is often mispronounced Arafa (Welsh translation: SLOW DOWN !!)west of Offa's ***.

Hwyl,

Martin   

 

[John Bakeer]

Simon,

It may have double glazing, but defective glazing has a mist in between.

[Tulyar15]

55015 - Are you suggesting that under the old Prime Minister Mr Branson would automatically have retained the XC franchise regardless of the credibility of the other bidders

Not necessarily, but given that the Cross Country franchise was a two horse race between Virgin and Arriva, I'd have thought anyone would see that Virgin deserved to keep it. After all, Virgin's investment in new trains has not only made other stock available to other TOC's, whilst Arriva made a mess of the Northern Franchise (they were rated Britain's worst TOC by a BBC TV programme!) and have similarly made a mess of the Welsh franchise. I belong to the Shrewsbury - Aberystwyth Rail Passengers Association and regularly hear stories of Cambrian line trains being formed of 2 cars when they should be 4 cars, and being turned round at Wolverhampton instead of Birmingham.

If you dont believe me I can forward you loads of emails from people who travel that line regularly!

So given the two vastly different records of Virgin and Arriva I dont see how anyone in their right mind could have given the Cross Country franchise to Arriva, except possibly your typical UK Treasury penny pinching accountant. They know the price of everything but dont appreciate the value of anything! I suppose with Gordon Brown having been at the Treasury so long they've long since brain washed him into their short sighted way of thinking.

[Simon Reed]

55015 - Are you suggesting that under the old Prime Minister Mr Branson would automatically have retained the XC franchise regardless of the credibility of the other bidders?

Oh goodness me no...surely not...because we have, do we not, a thoroughly transparent political system in our democracy.

Transparency means that you can see through both sides.  

[Tulyar15]

. Northern Rail became a bit of a shambles but Wales and West seemed a fairly well run operation

NO it isn't! Wales and Borders has gone down hill since Arriva took over. They've only got away with because the Welsh Assembly has given them extra money to hire extra stock. The reliability of their 158's has plummeted; trains which are supposed to be formed of two units are often formed of one.

In May I had a week's holiday in N. Wales with some friends; one of whom elected to travel back home to Aylesbury from Bangor. He caught a 3 car 170 there, only for everyone to be kicked out at Chester and squeezed (!) into a single car 153. All the disabled passengers got left behind.

I think it's an absolute disaster giving the cross country franchise to Arriva; I shall avoid travelling by X-country as much as I can. So much for our 'new' Prime Minister and his 'new government!

[Simon Reed]

John,

It's Virgin Cross Country that's gone, not West Coast.

Arriva seem to have mixed results in the UK rail market. Northern Rail became a bit of a shambles but Wales and West seemed a fairly well run operation.

My concern is that XC is a very specialist operation - probably unique amongst our franchises because of the huge size of it's operation and it's co-dependency on so many other TOC's. It's taken Virgin a while to get the operation bedded in but it seems to work now.

A new operator will need to maintain the status quo, I think, and I'm not sure that Arriva will be up to that.

I'd have preferred NEX. 

With the DB/EWS deal now all but nailed on, we're heading into some interesting times.  

 

[John Bakeer]

Martin,

Virgin West Coast was doing fine, I don't know about Arriva, I think their buses look scruffy.

I wonder what Bransons bid would have been like if he had built a whopping fare increase into his calculations? I live 100 metres from the WCML in Stockport (9B) and the Virgin stuff looks great. Besides, Sir Richard is a fellow Yorkshireman.

[mhurley87f]

I see that ARRIVA have "won" the Cross Country franchise, and, guess what? they plan to increase "certain" fares by higher than inflation.

While I've never taken one of Branson's trains, living as I do in the Celtic fringes, I certainly respect him for the investments he's made in his franchises' rolling stock, and the way he seems to listen to what his passengers want.

Shame.

 

Martin 

 

[John Bakeer]

CN got EWS by default when they took over Wisconsin Central, Ed Burkharts baby. A real story of boardroom scullduggery.

Ed is still active in Europe, I suspect he may still have an eye for a UK operation.

[John Bakeer]

Tony,

Used the 'dog & bone' got a booking for 4 open returns for £64.00 (£16.00 each), could have booked on specified trains for £44.00 (£11.00 each). Is it me? or am I not reading the web site correctly.

Mr original enquiry was for one passenger only and not four.

[Simon Reed]

Well, the word seems to be that CN have finally had enough of EWS and it's going to DB.

Can't say I'm sorry really. In fact I'm surprised that this has'nt happened earlier. CN have never seemed particularly interested in EWS and a DB buyout would consolidate the French operations.

Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles....

[owlsroost]

Tried the Trainline site for a super economy fare (return) and was quoted 64 Quid Sixty Four Pounds!  that will buy me enough petrol to do 800 miles! in the car, as there are four of us that means enough for 3,200 miles, that's Blackpool and back 24 times!!

Ye Gods!!

John,

I've just tried Stockport to Blackpool (return) on National Rail Enquiries - http://www.nationalrail.co.uk - and the highest standard class return fare it shows is £16.80, so I don't know where the £64 one comes from....

...just thought - if you ask it for a fare for 4 people, it quotes the total fare i.e. 4 x £16 = £64 (4 x  Stockport - Blackpool saver return ticket), maybe this is what happened ?

Tony

[John Bakeer]

Simon,

Just had a look at the US fan trip site and I must say that I am impressed. I dare not chance a glance at the price tag until I have had a couple of large whisky's.

I think the Jensen may be the better buy!?

[Simon Reed]

£64 sounds very steep. If you have the time it's worth looking for options.

A couple of my friends came from Barrow in Furness to the Keighley gala.

They saved £5 each by getting a Barrow-Carnforth return, then a Carnforth-Keighley return.

Anyway, I've just booked my 2008 holiday:-

http://www.usabyrail.co.uk/railtrips.htm

Southwest Chief is the one transcon train I've never ridden, I've never ridden the Grand Canyon Railroad (we went by bus), or Metrolink, and despite visiting Chicago many times I've never ridden CSSB.    

In fact to my shame it's three years since I last went railfanning in the US. If we did'nt keep buying such stupid cars we might have more spare money!

[John Bakeer]

Tried the Trainline site for a super economy fare (return) and was quoted 64 Quid Sixty Four Pounds!  that will buy me enough petrol to do 800 miles! in the car, as there are four of us that means enough for 3,200 miles, that's Blackpool and back 24 times!!

Ye Gods!!

[John Bakeer]

Aahh!

One forgets that the preserved lines have taken an equally hard knock. 

I'm considering using the train for a trip to Blackpool from here in Stockport, I haven't used the puffer for some three years, I hope I am not disappointed. 

[Tulyar15]

I thought West Midlands had gone to Go-Via, the guys who operate the SouthCentral and SouthEastern franchises (or in "old money" the Central and Eastern sections of the Southern Railway/Region). I'd certainly hope it's them. not Arriva. Arriva made a hash of the Northen franchise when they had it, and now they're making a hash of the Wales franchise.

I wonder how long Richard Bowker will keep his job as head of rail at National Express (a former state owned bus company, which since it was privatized has diversified into rail and air). Since he was appointed they've lost the Midland Main line and Central franchises and have failed to make the short list for Cross Country. If they fail to take over GNER, they'll only be left with the Anglia and C2C (London, Tilbury & Southend in "old money") franchises.

Meanwhile I gather the Cross Country franchise is a two horse race between Virgin (current holders) and Arriva. I hope the bearded wonder wins!

The Severn Valley Railway, one of the UK's leading heritage railways has also been very badly hit by floods. At the moment only the 4 miles from Kidderminster to Bewdley are open; the remaining 12 miles from Bewdley to Bridgnorth has suffered washouts in several places including Highley station!

[cogloadreturns]

I think we have moved directly from Spring to Autumn in this country and bypassed summer. It is raining again, perhaps St Swithian came early this year? Apart from the human and economic loss, the railway has been very badly hit with Sheffield, Rotherham, Doncaster and the Aire Valley very badly  affected. There are various pictures on Network Rails Media site (www.networkrail.co.uk) which can be looked at. Diversions are in place for a lot of the freight traffic, however one of the consequences of running a lot of the network close to the bone is(are) that some of the options available such as alternative routes, single line working cannot be used due to staff shortages and the like.

In other news, two more franchises have been awarded for passenger traffic, West Midlands goes to Arriva and East Midlands to Stagecoach. National Ex (previous holders of both) are having a very rough time of it. Deutsche Bahn have purchased EWS in its outright, so CNs interest in British Railfreight has now ended and Gordon Brown has picked Ruth kelly as the next SoS for Transport....er....ok.

[Murphy Siding]

      Wow!  What a selection of rail tours to take.  I could see spending $100 on a trip like that.  It's just the part about getting from my house to a station in Britain that could prove troublesome.

[owlsroost]

Yes, that's about right (1 GBP = 2 USD approx at present).

To give you an idea of prices, there's some listed here http://www.traintrips.co.uk/GE.html and here http://www.pathfindertours.co.uk

A pretty complete listing of UK railtour promoters is to be found at http://www.railtourinfo.co.uk/TOC.html

The enthusiast tours tend to be more expensive because of more complex itineries, specific loco types etc

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

Typical rail enthusiast tours cost at least £50 or more. That may sound expensive but then again so is going to a Premiur League Football match.

   Can ypu help me out on the exchange rate?  Is that about $100 American?   Thanks

[Tulyar15]

Typical rail enthusiast tours cost at least £50 or more. That may sound expensive but then again so is going to a Premiur League Football match.

[Murphy Siding]

On Saturday, I travelled on a railtour to the West Somerset Railway, hauled by the preserved Class 52 Diesel-hydraulic loco "Western Champion". The WSR were having a 1965 themed gala, that year being the last summer of steam on the Western Region of BR as was. I had haulage by cl 35 "Hymek" D7076 and from D1010 "Western Campaigner".

On display at Bishop's Lydeard was 47 832 in Victa Westlinkl livery - this new Open Access operator is planning to operater a Bristol - Minehead train service for people staying at the Butlin's holiday camp at Minehead.

I see frequent references on here about Brits going on special train rides.  Out of curiosity, what does it normaly cost to go on a typical train excursion in Britain?

[John Bakeer]

Simon, Just a thought.

Have you tried contacting a local model railway club or model engineering society. I was once a member and I recollect they had a library of most of the popular railway magazines. This could be the impetous I need to get involved with the local group. 

[Tulyar15]

Does anyone get Railway Magazine?

There was an article in it a few months ago about the number of steam locos built.

I've given my copy to Embsay but I'm trying to remember details for Erikthered in the "locomotives" section of this forum.

Help help! 

I read it at my local public library, I remember the article you mentioned. I'll ask tonight what they do with back issues, but I suspect they throw them out.

Meanwhile, for those wanting to see some examples of present day British railroading the following site which is mainly devoted to NW England and N Wales has some good pics on it:-


http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

[Simon Reed]

Does anyone get Railway Magazine?

There was an article in it a few months ago about the number of steam locos built.

I've given my copy to Embsay but I'm trying to remember details for Erikthered in the "locomotives" section of this forum.

Help help! 

[Tulyar15]

I think it's a shame those 310's are sat idle. In fact their bodies are based on the BR Mk2 design so I'd thought they'd be OK to use. (The NIR are still using a few of their 1970's DEMU which are a diesel electric version of the class 310).

ATOC has presented Network Rail with a list of electrification schemes it would like to see done. These are all infill schemes but if some of the suggestions in the West Midlands were to be done these units could have soldiered on for a bit longer.

[Simon Reed]

Marc,

This is "secure storage!"

It's an old Ministry of Defence site. The units are owned by a leasing company but are of the old slam door (ie manually operated door) build and are therefore of no use to train operating companies.

There is actually an awful lot more equipment within the site itself. I can only assume that those illustrated can't be fitted in but I'm not sure.

They'll be waiting for a suitable offer from a metals recycling company. 

Yes, they are EMU's. They are Class 310's, built in the late 1960's for commuter service out of London Euston and in the Birmingham area. 

[MStLfan]

I came across this story on Drehscheibe online:

http://drehscheibe-online.ist-im-web.de/forum/report.php?30,3365485

In short, there are some abandoned emu's out on an abandoned line. Between Great Wakering and Southend-on-Sea. They are, however, spaced several kilometers from each other. One has the number 310060. Livery seems to be Network Southeast.

What is the story behind these abandoned emu's (or are they dmu's?) and the railroadline they are standing on?

greetings,

Marc Immeker

[cogloadreturns]

The plan to run onto the WSR has been canned following a change of control on Somerset CC. Not a bad set of results for the railway though; 200,000 visitors and a small operating profit. They were helped by a large bequest from a will to undertake a few capital improvements. As ever the begging letter came along so another application for shares (aka donation) has been sent off with an appropriate sum attached.

I can forsee through services to London at some stage. The problem is the branch itself - to upgrade it for 40MPH will take a lot of cash, which the railway may not have.