QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost OK everyone, as we've strayed into nostalgia a bit (and it might be of interest to vistors to the UK):- 1. What are your favourite stretches of track in Britain from a scenery point of view ? 2. What are (or have been) your favourite journeys in Britain from a railfan perspective (you're allowed to be nostalgic here) ? My nominations are :- 1. Glasgow - Mallaig, Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh and Exeter - Newton Abbott 2. Glasgow - Mallaig and Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh loco hauled behind a class 37, and very fast blast up the West Coast main line behind an 86 on a Birmingham - Edinburgh excursion once - it arrived 90 minutes early..... Tony
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: I've had a little ride out on the rails around West Yorkshire today and was reflecting on how bland the UK railway scene is even compared to 20 years ago, when I first came to University in the area. I think the same about modern music, compared to what I was dancing about to in the 80's
QUOTE: No, Network Rail trai planning. BTW came across what is probably the slowest goods train in Britain. Wieghs in at 1700 ton and takes 38 minutes to climb Beatock, 10 miles of 1 in 75 is. In Briti***erms that is probably about as rough as it gets. It aint no Sherman Hill or Raton.
Originally posted by cogload Townsend you work for EWS then? No, Network Rail trai planning. BTW came across what is probably the slowest goods train in Britain. Wieghs in at 1700 ton and takes 38 minutes to climb Beatock, 10 miles of 1 in 75 is. In Briti***erms that is probably about as rough as it gets. It aint no Sherman Hill or Raton. Reply Edit Simon Reed Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Sulzerland, UK 337 posts Posted by Simon Reed on Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:38 PM I've had a little ride out on the rails around West Yorkshire today and was reflecting on how bland the UK railway scene is even compared to 20 years ago, when I first came to University in the area. I think the same about modern music, compared to what I was dancing about to in the 80's. One thing that has'nt changed is the the West Yorkshire day rover is still incredible value. I can't remember how much it was in 1985 but now it's £4.50 (about $7) for unlimited train and bus travel in West Yorkshire after 09.30. Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:01 PM Interesting thing about railroad interests as a hobby: it's so varied that there is something for everyone's tastes. Music works the same way. Subtext: The music that was popular when I was in college, used to be on *classic rock* radio stations. Now, it's starting to show up on the *oldies* radio stations. My kids are sure that I'm turning into an old fart. Somehow the radio industry isn't helping my case.[:)] Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:05 AM The Bach St. Mathew Passion and my Friday Night Kiddush over wine, yes. Reply Tulyar15 Member sinceJuly 2005 From: Bath, England, UK 712 posts Posted by Tulyar15 on Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:28 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Townsend In Briti***rain planning some peoples view of goods trains range from bad tempered tolleration to outright loathing. Leith - Cockenzie trains are on the ECML for about 5 miles, that can be lived with, but when you are trying to path a coal train out of Hunterston going to Drax, through Paisley, across the West Coast Main Line at Polmadie, round the Edinburgh sub and down the East Coast Main Line to be handed over North Eastern zone at Berwick to be told it has been rejected because it clashes with a train near York, you start to think do we realy need this traffic and would it not be better to land it at Hull. After that rant the most productive frieght trains in terms of ease of planning and utilisation of resources tend to be MGR, Freightliners and nominated freights (like mgr but not just minerals). Anything else and you are getting back to the possition of Britain being the worlds biggest marshalling yard like it was in the 1950's. Reply Simon Reed Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Sulzerland, UK 337 posts Posted by Simon Reed on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:29 PM OK, just contribute to the music subtext. Music is far more important than Railways is'nt it?? Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:48 PM U.S. folks do enjoy reading it. Just don't always understand it.[:)] Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Simon Reed Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Sulzerland, UK 337 posts Posted by Simon Reed on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:19 PM Sorry, U.S. folk, but this is turning into a bit of a UK subscribers thread via Wisconsin! ABP won't invest in ANYTHING unless it's absolutely written in stone. There are actually an incredible number of deep water ports on the West Coast of Britain - Barrow being a good example - with the infrastructure in place for direct ship/rail transhipment. At present we pay - via HM Government, then to BNFL - for Barrow to be dredged to a fairly restricted draught to let James Fisher's boats in with spent uranium rods. With a deeper dredge, and some alterations at Carnforth, you could put almost anything in at Barrow and save a day's sailing to Hunterston. Plenty of paths on the Furness, and WCML Carnforth - Crewe at least. A thumbnail example. The bottom line is a failure to make the left hand understand what the right hand is doing. Where did the "what are we listening to" subtext go? Currnetly "Hotel San Jose" by Go Go Market, which is basically a Chuck Prophet album with Stephanie Finch vocals. Am I boring you? Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:06 PM Townsend you work for EWS then? The answer maybe lack of terminal capacity and a government scared witless that the policy of dash for gas has seen large canards now roosting in the attic and wondering what to do next. It is unlikely that ABP would invest mega cash when nobody knows how many coal fired ps will see the grim repaer over the next 10 years. Besides Scots coal is low in sulphur and there is an enormo seam waiting to be skimmed. Cheaply. As well as the Hunterston stuff. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:01 PM In Briti***rain planning some peoples view of goods trains range from bad tempered tolleration to outright loathing. Leith - Cockenzie trains are on the ECML for about 5 miles, that can be lived with, but when you are trying to path a coal train out of Hunterston going to Drax, through Paisley, across the West Coast Main Line at Polmadie, round the Edinburgh sub and down the East Coast Main Line to be handed over North Eastern zone at Berwick to be told it has been rejected because it clashes with a train near York, you start to think do we realy need this traffic and would it not be better to land it at Hull. After that rant the most productive frieght trains in terms of ease of planning and utilisation of resources tend to be MGR, Freightliners and nominated freights (like mgr but not just minerals). Anything else and you are getting back to the possition of Britain being the worlds biggest marshalling yard like it was in the 1950's. Reply Edit Tulyar15 Member sinceJuly 2005 From: Bath, England, UK 712 posts Posted by Tulyar15 on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:55 AM The steel works and scrapyard I mentioned above on the Isle of Sheppey are separate companies that just happen to be close together and are connected by the national network. I assume EWS operates the trains between them. But the scrapyard also has its own dock for export and import of different scrap metals and this is linked to its yard by its own standard gauge rail line, with its own locos and train crews. The Sheeness steel works can only process certain types of steel so the scrapyard exports the types which the Sheerness plant cannot process and also imports the types it can. Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:25 PM The train equipment is owned by one of the leasing companies who rent it to the train operating companies who also rent train paths from the infrastructure controller to run a service for the generating company is the short unpunctuated answer. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:05 PM Now, that makes sense. I was thinking([(-D]) a little hard, I'm afraid. There is a little railroad in my city, The Ellis & Eastern, that hauls gravel from a their quarry on the west part of town, to their cement plant on the east side of town-total distance of 4 to 5 miles. In this case, the railroad,quarry and cement plant are owned by the same party. In the instances cited above, would that be the case? Does the power plant, or steel mill own the train equipment, or is it all contracted out to a third party? Thanks Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Tulyar15 Member sinceJuly 2005 From: Bath, England, UK 712 posts Posted by Tulyar15 on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:04 AM Murphy, the other factor against trucks here is that roads are more congested and there is growing opposition to freight being moved by roads. Until recenlty grants were available to encourage firms to invest in rail sidings so they could ship goods by rail instead of truck. It is also hoped that investment in cheaper technology such as these Freigh Multiple Units (FMUs) which were recentrly trialled on timber traffic in Wales will help transfer more traffic to rail. (I gather the Scottish Parliament has given a grant to one of the freight operators to start using these vehicles in Scotland). Going back to short flows, one of the shortes is on the Isle of Sheppey in Kent. (This is an island in the Thames estuary which is connected to the main land by a road/rail bridge where the central section can be raised to allow ships to pass thru). Steel is shipped by rail from the scrapyard at Queenborough on the island a mere 5 miles to the steelworks at Sheerness, which is the terminus of the branch line which links these places with the main land, joining the former London, Chatham and Dover line at Sittingbourne. The steelworks at Sheerness also receives scrap steel by rail from other scapyards on the mainland. For those who think that the former Southern Region of BR is just an electric tramway with commuter trains, a visit to the Isle of Sheppey will make you think again! In addition to the above plants, the Paper Works at Sittingbourne is served by a siding from the branch too. The branch to Sheerness was electrified in the 1960's as part of the Kent Coast electrification scheme and it has a passenger service too. Except at peak hours on Mon-Fri this just consists of an electric unit shuttling between Sittingbourne and Sheerness, however the last time I visited the latter the terminus still boasted two platforms and a run round loop so locos could run round. Another short flow is the couple of miles from Newport Dock to Fifoots (formerly Uskmouth) power station. Imported coal is moved between the two and for this short trip a class 08 switcher can do the job! Reply beaulieu Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NW Wisconsin 3,857 posts Posted by beaulieu on Monday, January 16, 2006 11:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload Yes: One bloke driving - Power Station - Pit - Power Station continuously. High Utilisation in both terms of wagons and locomotives (1). 5 Days a week - Up to 6 trains a day. There is currently a flow out of Leith Docks (Ed) to Cockenzie P.S. which must be all of I dunno 10 miles, if that. 2.5k tonnes per train.....kerrrrrrrchhhiiiiing. Plus if part of the run is on the main (line) Railfreight only had to pay marginal cost on that bit of railway. The key is the weight. So, if I understand the open access system correctly,the train op company would have to *bid*(?) on the uses of those certain tracks, at thoses certain times,5 days a week, up to 6 trains a day? Also, I'm having trouble visualizing how this train could compete with trucks? Granted, I'm viewing it from an American perspective. Here, anything under about 400 miles goes more economically on a semi-truck. Are Briti***rains that much more efficient than (North)American trains? Or perhaps trucks over here are more efficient? As always, thanks. Murphy, think how many trucks to shift 15,000 tonnes per day, then think how many drivers that many trucks would require . My quick calculations say 625 round trips per day, figure 12 twelve trips per truck, requires 52 trucks and 52 Drivers. Drivers = $$$$$ Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 16, 2006 7:30 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload Yes: One bloke driving - Power Station - Pit - Power Station continuously. High Utilisation in both terms of wagons and locomotives (1). 5 Days a week - Up to 6 trains a day. There is currently a flow out of Leith Docks (Ed) to Cockenzie P.S. which must be all of I dunno 10 miles, if that. 2.5k tonnes per train.....kerrrrrrrchhhiiiiing. Plus if part of the run is on the main (line) Railfreight only had to pay marginal cost on that bit of railway. The key is the weight. So, if I understand the open access system correctly,the train op company would have to *bid*(?) on the uses of those certain tracks, at thoses certain times,5 days a week, up to 6 trains a day? Also, I'm having trouble visualizing how this train could compete with trucks? Granted, I'm viewing it from an American perspective. Here, anything under about 400 miles goes more economically on a semi-truck. Are Briti***rains that much more efficient than (North)American trains? Or perhaps trucks over here are more efficient? As always, thanks. Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 16, 2006 4:25 PM Yes: One bloke driving - Power Station - Pit - Power Station continuously. High Utilisation in both terms of wagons and locomotives (1). 5 Days a week - Up to 6 trains a day. There is currently a flow out of Leith Docks (Ed) to Cockenzie P.S. which must be all of I dunno 10 miles, if that. 2.5k tonnes per train.....kerrrrrrrchhhiiiiing. Plus if part of the run is on the main (line) Railfreight only had to pay marginal cost on that bit of railway. The key is the weight. Reply Edit Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 16, 2006 3:34 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed The commodity that immediately springs to mind is coal. Here in (cold, rainy) Yorkshire we had until recently the huge Selby pit. Nearly all of it's output was fed underground to a place called Gascoigne Wood (pronounced Gas-coin) then taken by rail to power plants locally - Ferrybridge, Drax and Eggborough. Ferrybridge, without looking it up, would be around 5 miles by rail from Gascoigne Wood, Eggborough perhaps 8. Another flow was scrap metal from Attercliffe in Sheffield to Aldwarke in Rotherham - 5 miles maximum. It's all in the "Freightmaster" book that Bealieau sent you. When you get my latest gift it'll get even clearer. Tonight's "unwind after a bad day with a bottle of Merlot" album is Do It Yourself, by the Seahorses - John Squire at his blistering best! And the railways can compete with trucks on hauls as short as that? . Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply « First«37383940414243»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by Townsend In Briti***rain planning some peoples view of goods trains range from bad tempered tolleration to outright loathing. Leith - Cockenzie trains are on the ECML for about 5 miles, that can be lived with, but when you are trying to path a coal train out of Hunterston going to Drax, through Paisley, across the West Coast Main Line at Polmadie, round the Edinburgh sub and down the East Coast Main Line to be handed over North Eastern zone at Berwick to be told it has been rejected because it clashes with a train near York, you start to think do we realy need this traffic and would it not be better to land it at Hull. After that rant the most productive frieght trains in terms of ease of planning and utilisation of resources tend to be MGR, Freightliners and nominated freights (like mgr but not just minerals). Anything else and you are getting back to the possition of Britain being the worlds biggest marshalling yard like it was in the 1950's.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload Yes: One bloke driving - Power Station - Pit - Power Station continuously. High Utilisation in both terms of wagons and locomotives (1). 5 Days a week - Up to 6 trains a day. There is currently a flow out of Leith Docks (Ed) to Cockenzie P.S. which must be all of I dunno 10 miles, if that. 2.5k tonnes per train.....kerrrrrrrchhhiiiiing. Plus if part of the run is on the main (line) Railfreight only had to pay marginal cost on that bit of railway. The key is the weight. So, if I understand the open access system correctly,the train op company would have to *bid*(?) on the uses of those certain tracks, at thoses certain times,5 days a week, up to 6 trains a day? Also, I'm having trouble visualizing how this train could compete with trucks? Granted, I'm viewing it from an American perspective. Here, anything under about 400 miles goes more economically on a semi-truck. Are Briti***rains that much more efficient than (North)American trains? Or perhaps trucks over here are more efficient? As always, thanks.
QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload Yes: One bloke driving - Power Station - Pit - Power Station continuously. High Utilisation in both terms of wagons and locomotives (1). 5 Days a week - Up to 6 trains a day. There is currently a flow out of Leith Docks (Ed) to Cockenzie P.S. which must be all of I dunno 10 miles, if that. 2.5k tonnes per train.....kerrrrrrrchhhiiiiing. Plus if part of the run is on the main (line) Railfreight only had to pay marginal cost on that bit of railway. The key is the weight.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed The commodity that immediately springs to mind is coal. Here in (cold, rainy) Yorkshire we had until recently the huge Selby pit. Nearly all of it's output was fed underground to a place called Gascoigne Wood (pronounced Gas-coin) then taken by rail to power plants locally - Ferrybridge, Drax and Eggborough. Ferrybridge, without looking it up, would be around 5 miles by rail from Gascoigne Wood, Eggborough perhaps 8. Another flow was scrap metal from Attercliffe in Sheffield to Aldwarke in Rotherham - 5 miles maximum. It's all in the "Freightmaster" book that Bealieau sent you. When you get my latest gift it'll get even clearer. Tonight's "unwind after a bad day with a bottle of Merlot" album is Do It Yourself, by the Seahorses - John Squire at his blistering best!
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