Welcome Back! Thought this thread had gone away for good. It has always been an interesting read!
I would be curious to know what the reaction in the UK is to the new G.E. "Powerhaul" locomotives.
Thanks.
Here's a link to get started with: http://www.freightlineraustralia.com.au/filelibrary/PDFs/2009.09.16%20Update%20on%20Freightliner%E2%80%99s%20new%20PowerHaul%20locomotives.pdf
Here is also a link to a Railway Gazette article with photo and Video:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/10/freightliner-powerhaul-locomotives-ready-for-testing.html
To bump an oldish thread. Well things are warming up with a summer of industrial action ahead and Notwork Fail, sorry Network rail being under the fiscal cosh. However it is not all gloom and doom! We have plans for our very own internal High Speed Rail, the Scots government shows how it is done with the reopening of a fourth line between Glasgow and Edinburgh (Airdrie to Bathgate), the reactivation of one of the most famous routes in railway lore (The Waverley) from Edinburgh to Tweedbank in the borders plus the wiring up of other routes from Edinburgh to Glasgow (the EnG via Polmont, plus to Stirling (home to Bannockburn) and Perth) as well as various Glasgae suburban lines.
Three cheers for devolution..hip hip...
Glad to hear #804 is making progress. I look forward to seeing her running; likewise her sister on the Cholsey & Wallingford Railway.
Talking of imports, I gather the Finnish locos on the Epping - Ongar Railway have not been scrapped, but moved to other sites. A guy I've been corresponding with who works on that line tells me: one apparently ended up down in Rayleigh (a display outside a timber yard I believe), and the other went for private display (no idea if his wife knew / approved!). Two Pacific locos remain on-site, one half cosmetically restored, the other needing a shot-blast and repaint. I have no knowledge about the one at Bressingham...?! It is intended that the last two will be retained as static display, perhaps re-timbering the cab floor so kids can sit in the driver's seat / take pictures etc etc, but we are focusing on getting the line re-open first!
I think if I won the lottery, I'd be tempted to look for a disused line in Ireland and either regauge the Finnish locos to the Irish gauge 5' 3" or convert the line to 5'. (There's a narrow gauge line near Waterford which was broad gauge and the preservationist did actually narrow the track to 3'). Well one can dream...
Meanwhile back on planet earth On Saturday I went on a special train to Aberystwyth, organised by a group of railwaymen in aid of the Railway Childrens charity, which does work in Third World countries to help vunerable children. Weather was good and as it picked up at my local station in Chippenham I was able to partake of the various real ales on the train, which had been donated by a number of breweries. The tour was hauled from Bristol to Shrewsbury by 50 044 "Exeter" with 37 676 "Loch Rannoch" bringing up the rear. On the outward run everything was fine till we got to Leamington where 50 044 "Exeter" was quite visibly leaking coolant! We all thought they'd have to put 37 676 on the front. However its owners managed to affect a repair as it continued to haul the train to Shrewsbury. Despite a 25 minute late departure from Leamington we were only 3 minutes late into Shrewsbury. At Shrewsbury the train reversed, with newly refurbuished 97 301 (one of 4 37's that have been refurbuished for use on the Cambrian lines;; when the new ERTMS signalling system goes live in December these will be the only locos allowed on that line as they're the only ones fitted with ERTMS equipment) joining sister 37 676 and 50 044 bringing up the rear.
50 044 led on the return journey from Aber. but although she seemed to cope with Talerdigg bank OK it was decided to run the train into Shrewsbury so that 37 676 could haul the train onwards. However no sooner had 97 301 been detached than we heard the line between Salop and Wellington was blocked by a failed train. By this time there were already 2 up trains held at Shrewsbury; already the station was getting congested. With both platforms 3 and 4 occupied (the former by a down Holyhead train; the latter by our train) a Cardiff - Manchester train had to be diverted into Platform 5, one of the south facing bays. It then reversed back to English Bridge Junction before continuing North on the Down Main between platforms 3 and 4. It was then decided to divert the tour via Crewe. 50 044 burst into life and we headed past the still surviving box at Crewe Bank only to grind to a halt. But with 37 676 running too we were soon on the move again. The train reversed at Crewe and 37 676 led from there onwards back through Stafford and on to Wolverhampton. From there we returned by our planned route, running about 90 minutes late. When we got to Oxford we heard the blockage at Wellington had finally been cleared - so the organisers made the right decision to divert the tour. Despite its problems, 50 044 was still running and was giving its pennyworth. It was certainly still under power as the train left Chippenham. I asked several of the organisers why they could not have just introduced single line working over the stretch of line where the failed train was, only to be told "Far too complicated these days". I dont think my maternal grandfather, who was a signalman on God's Wonderful Railway would have been very impressed. Mind you I do recall him telling me of a time when he had to initiate Temporary Singe Line Working between Norton Jct and Abbotswood Jct; the Midland signalman at the latter was not very clued up on how to do it.
I've just booked up to go and see "Tornado" on the West Somerset Railway, which runs from Taunton to Minehead, on Saturday 13th June. Hopefully I will have seen it already by then. On Saturday 30th May it's pulling two half day excursions from Bristol; one in the morning to Cardiff via Gloucester, which I hope to see go thru the latter, and then in the afternoon it pulls one to Taunton and on to the West Somerset Railway where it spends the next fortnight. Meanwhile in a couple of weeks time I'm off on holiday to East Anglias and hope to visit the North Norfolk Railway. which I've not been to for over 20 years.
Simon Reed Those who have followed this thread along it's long and tortuous journey may recall that I was involved in an attempt to resurrect an ALCo S1 at Railworld, Peterborough. For various reasons this project was abandoned. To recap, Five ALCo S1's were imported to the UK in 1949/50 to work in the Port Talbot Steelworks complex. They were retired in the early 1980's and three of them (801,803 and 804) entered preservation. The historical signifance of these loco's cannot be overlooked - other than the few prototypes built by the LMS and SR these were the first big diesel loco's to operate in the UK, and predated large scale dieselisation in the UK by ten years. It could be argued that their longevity and robustness was an indictment of the step missed by British Railways in failing to look to the established US market when embarking upon their scattergun dieselisation process. Certainly they were the only US built standard gauge diesels in the UK until the "59's" arrived in 1986. The good news is that some of those who were involved with me in the Peterborough project have now bought one of the other three - 801. The loco is shortly to be moved to Longhoughton, Northumberland and it's long term home is proposed to be the Aln Valley Railway. It's owners have every intention of restoring it to operational condition as time and resources allow. Should anyone want any more information please contact me. Although I have no share in the loco I have every intention of assisting the owners in any way I can, because I'd love to hear a McIntosh and Seymour 539 chugging through Northumbria!
Those who have followed this thread along it's long and tortuous journey may recall that I was involved in an attempt to resurrect an ALCo S1 at Railworld, Peterborough.
For various reasons this project was abandoned.
To recap, Five ALCo S1's were imported to the UK in 1949/50 to work in the Port Talbot Steelworks complex. They were retired in the early 1980's and three of them (801,803 and 804) entered preservation.
The historical signifance of these loco's cannot be overlooked - other than the few prototypes built by the LMS and SR these were the first big diesel loco's to operate in the UK, and predated large scale dieselisation in the UK by ten years.
It could be argued that their longevity and robustness was an indictment of the step missed by British Railways in failing to look to the established US market when embarking upon their scattergun dieselisation process.
Certainly they were the only US built standard gauge diesels in the UK until the "59's" arrived in 1986.
The good news is that some of those who were involved with me in the Peterborough project have now bought one of the other three - 801. The loco is shortly to be moved to Longhoughton, Northumberland and it's long term home is proposed to be the Aln Valley Railway.
It's owners have every intention of restoring it to operational condition as time and resources allow.
Should anyone want any more information please contact me. Although I have no share in the loco I have every intention of assisting the owners in any way I can, because I'd love to hear a McIntosh and Seymour 539 chugging through Northumbria!
May I correct you slightly, the project to restore 804 at Railworld has not been Abandoned, working with the ALco group who have bought 801 a dedicated group of people are restoring 804. Last weekend 804's power unit was freed up and turned over using the batteries off 801. We are hoping that together with the lads from 801, we can perform miracles that they have done with 801 on 804, within weeks we should have 2 working S1 ALco's in the UK. 801 moved under it's own power just weeks ago as can be seen on youtube. Watch this space for 804's faltering steps.
Dave
For the last three Sundays I've visited the steam galas at various preserved railways. First of all, the Severn Valley Gala where I spent the day at Arley filming the trains. It was just like being on a main line station with three Pacifics in action - "Duke of Gloucester", "Sir Nigel Gresley" and "Oliver Cromwell". For once the SVR managed to match the right loco and coaches. It was great to "Gresley" on a set of LNER varnished teak carriages.
Then to the Mid-Hants. For me the star attraction was "Lord Nelson". Bulleid Pacifics are two a penny these days but Lord Nelson is a bit different, with his 8 beats per revoiution. Also there was 130 year old Beattie 2-4-0T from Quainton Road; I've now seen both surviving Beatties in steam.
Finally this Sunday I went to the Great Central's 1960's gala. Visiting NER Q6 0-8-0 was running,and I had it for haulage, along with the O4 2-8-0, 8F #48305 and BR 2 2-6-0 78019. The GC is one of the few lines where you can still go in the shed. Inside were nearly finished LNER N2 0-6-2T, already looking good in apple green, #30777 "Sir Lamiel" (a King Arthur class 4-6-0) and various other locos under restoration. Also running were three diesels including the orange class 31 and a DMU. With its double track section I think the GC is really going places now.
I think that a more revealing question for me is probably why the US gallon is smaller than the Imperial gallon which I assume did make the journey across the pond with the "founding fathers" only to be changed at some future time to become the, smaller, local US measure.
Cheers
Bruce
cogloadreturns We are in the stew. With added dumplings. 6 of the passenger "franchises" (sorry management contracts) are deep in the mire and the good ole British taxpayer will bail them out (again). Murphy Siding - ref: kilometers (kilometres - depending where you are of course). We still deal in the Original Imperial over here and the European Union has now abandoned its attempt to make us go metric. I am therefore off for a pint.
We are in the stew. With added dumplings.
6 of the passenger "franchises" (sorry management contracts) are deep in the mire and the good ole British taxpayer will bail them out (again).
Murphy Siding - ref: kilometers (kilometres - depending where you are of course). We still deal in the Original Imperial over here and the European Union has now abandoned its attempt to make us go metric.
I am therefore off for a pint.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
cogloadreturns Murphy Siding - ref: kilometers (kilometres - depending where you are of course). We still deal in the Original Imperial over here and the European Union has now abandoned its attempt to make us go metric. I am therefore off for a pint.
Hahaha, you'll get used to it someday. You survived decimalisation of the pound too.
I get you on the pint though here it refers to a beer and not it's size.
Still, it seems the UK has run into another set of problems with the franchises. Be interesting to find out what the contracts say and how the problems are solved. Shutting down other franchises of a company because said company wants to hand in 1 franchise contract is not very efficient. I wonder how it is done elsewhere here in Europe.
To add more clarity to the franchise problem it is thought that a number of the franchises will have trouble meeting their financial obligations. When each franchise is tendered the bidder agrees the level of subsidy or payment for each year of the franchise. In most cases passenger numbers and fares were expected to increase over time and therefore either the subsidy progressively reduces or the franchise payment to the government increases.
With the recession people are now travelling less - a commuter with no job doesn't need his season ticket and comapnies are cutting back on business travel, so the growth predictions are proving optimistic and the franchise companies are running out of money and are seeing if they can abandon their obligations.
The added problem is that most of the big operators now have several franchises each and the rule is that if they abandon one of them as loss making then they loose the right to operate the others!
Interesting times!!
Yes, you're right, I did mean Witham (Essex). Slip of the keyboard!
Great to hear the Western's in good nick.
But Braintree?? Did you mean Witham?
Martin
My brother has loaded more pics on his site at www.roscalen.com
I had an enjoyable day on the Pathfinder "Great Eastern Western" tour last month which featured D1015 "Western Champion" reaching Norwich and Great Yarmouth. On each leg she gained time!
I joined the Pathfinder “Great Eastern Western” tour at London Liverpool St. The tour started from Swindon behind an EWS Class 67, one of the ‘Royal’ ones, 67 005 “Queen’s Messenger”, at 06:48. To be sure of catching it I would have had to catch the 05:55 train from Chippenham, whereas by staying with a relative who lives near Gatwick airport I was able to get up at a slightly more sociable hour. Departure from Liverpool St was on time at 09:50 behind D1015 “Western Champion”. We headed down the Seven Sisters loop line to Bishop’s Stortford and thence to Cambridge and Ely. At the latter we were booked to stop just to change crews but as we arrived there ten minutes early we were allowed to get off and take photos. From Ely we proceeded to Wymondham where those who wished to have an extended visit to Norwich were provided with a bus; one or two local enthusiasts also joined the train as we then proceeded to Great Yarmouth via the Norwich avoiding curve past Crown Point depot and then via the infrequently used Berney Arms branch. Arrival at Great Yarmouth was punctual but here we hit on the only snag of the day. We ran into Platform 2, at the end of which is a crossover controlled by a ground frame, released by the signal box. This is to enable locomotives to run round trains, however the Class 52 “Western” diesel loco was only just able to fit in between the point and the buffers. When the guard got the release from the signalman he was able to change the points but not to re-apply the facing point lock. After a few minutes he decided to wedge and clamp the points. The driver drove very gingerly over the point but happily without incident. The guard was then able to normalise the point and FPL and lock the ground frame – all of which I captured on video! We returned to Norwich via Acle and arrival there was right time. The loco then propelled its stock to Crown Point for cleaning and we had a break of two hours in Norwich. There was also a steam hauled charter hauled by “Sir Nigel Gresley” there. It was very busy due to Norwich City FC being at home to Charlton Athletic, and extra DMU’s were provided to strengthen some of the local trains. We were warned to beware of the Charlton Fans but I don’t recall seeing any; local “Canaries” fans were much in evidence but good humoured. Like the steam special, our departure from Norwich was ten minutes late. Nevertheless a good run ensued and arrival at Braintree, where we were due to stop for ten minutes “for pathing reasons” was ten minutes early! Instead we continued on straight away to Liverpool Street with the result that our arrival there was 20 minutes early! A fitting end to an enjoyable day out in East Anglia, on some lines still signalled with semaphores.
I popped over to Bristol the other day. The 3 class 37's that have been stored at Barton Hill depot have gone. I wonder if they've been scrapped, sold or re-instated. I know EWS have reinstated some 37/4's lately but I think the three at Bristol were either 37/5's or 37/7s.
Thanks for that correction and that information Tulyar. I should have known better - a senior's moment is my excuse.
I inherited an brass HO 0-4-0T old time american-style logging locomotive, about 45 years old, nicely painted in maroon and black and with nameplates on each side bearing the name "A.H. Peppercorn" . It took me some time to research its background and who Peppercorn was. The original owner I determined was a Brit, and obviously had a sense of humour in bestowing Peppercorn's name on this litlle locomotive, built from a Ken Kidder kit.
I certainly hope to see Toronado on my next trip to the UK.
Isambard
Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at isambard5935.blogspot.com
Before I attempt to answer Murphy's questions, I'd just like to clear up one point. The new pacifici is a Peppercorn design, not Gresley. The Peppercorn A1 Pacifics were introduced in 1949, just after nationalisation to the design of Alfred H. Peppercorn. Peppercorn was the London & North Eastern Railway's final Chief Mechanical Engineer; Gresley was the first, from the companys inception at the 1923 grouping (when the UK govt shied away from nationalising the railways and instead merged them into 4 regional comapnies) until his death in 1941. For further details of the Gresley and Peppercorn Pacifics I recommend a visit to this site: http://www.lner.info/index.shtml
As to the question of why do it: the group felt the fact that none of the Peppercorn A1 had been preserved left a gap in preservation, so they set about the task of building a new one from scratch! I think they've benefited from havin the right contacts in engineering to know what can be made and where. I this has helped convince key donors that the project was both feasible and worthwhile. From a more practical point of view, as the locomotive is new they've taken the view that it can run at speeds of up to 90mph on the main lines and at all stages in the project they have kept up a dialogue with the relevant authorities.
Many of our preserved locos are getting old and a point may be reached when it becomes too costly to keep them running. This point has already been reached with "Green Arrow" the very popular Gresley V2 2-6-2 which after not only 30 years service on the LNER and BR but also a very active retirement (it's been a regular main line runner since BR starting allowing steam specials in the 1970's) it is now worn out. Hopefully the new A1 will be able to fill this gap.
The success of this project has already resulted in a number of other new build projects being started to fill other gaps in preservation; examples include the Bluebell Railway's construction of a new London, Brighton and South Coast Railway 'Atlantic', a project to build a new BR Class 6 'Clan' Pacific and the Great Western Society's "Saint" project to re-create a Saint class loco that can run as either a 4-4-2 or 4-6-0 as the real ones did in Edwardian times.
Isambard Google "Toronado British Steam Locomotive" and you'll find a flood of references. £3 million and 18 years to produce the first mainline steam locomotive in Britain in 40 years, a Gresley A1 Pacific (4-6-2) design.
Google "Toronado British Steam Locomotive" and you'll find a flood of references. £3 million and 18 years to produce the first mainline steam locomotive in Britain in 40 years, a Gresley A1 Pacific (4-6-2) design.
Another question: When reading about this locomotive on British websites, why is the speed described in miles per hour? Wouldn't the local measure be kilometers per hour?
Simon Reed Bealieu - the SW1001 owned by Hanson Aggregates at Merehead Quarry is reported to be due for replacement soon, a development being keenly watched by the new owners of the S1! Tulyar - I've not heard anything about the import and regauging of 121's. Many have been broken up recently and with Dublin's Inchicore works likely to contract in size soon more will be on their way. The ITG have staked a claim on at least one of the survivors (124 and 134). Regauging would'nt really be a big job, depending primarily on the truck mounts/bearers compatibility with standard gauge B-B trucks available in the UK.
Bealieu - the SW1001 owned by Hanson Aggregates at Merehead Quarry is reported to be due for replacement soon, a development being keenly watched by the new owners of the S1!
Tulyar - I've not heard anything about the import and regauging of 121's. Many have been broken up recently and with Dublin's Inchicore works likely to contract in size soon more will be on their way. The ITG have staked a claim on at least one of the survivors (124 and 134).
Regauging would'nt really be a big job, depending primarily on the truck mounts/bearers compatibility with standard gauge B-B trucks available in the UK.
I'm a bit late responding to this post owing to the long period between posts and my own preoccupations but it is probably worth pointing out that as long as there aren't any clearance restrictions that affect the use of the original bogie frames, you could just fit new axles with wheels at standard gauge spacing.
In Australia, we have to do this all the time, particularly in Victoria where locomotives were exchanged between 1600 mm (5'3") and 1435mm (4'8-1/2") frequently. All Victorian standard gauge locomotives used broad gauge bogie frames and they are all EMD units many with identical D77 motors to the Irish EMDs. The Victorian bogies are designed to allow brake gear to be hung in both locattions for the two gauges, but it should be possible to adapt the Irish bogies to match the brake shoes to the wheels in the standard gauge position.
The existing wheels, bearings, "bull" gear and traction motor can be re-used without alteration on the existing bogie frame. The only cost would be the new axles, and drawings for these which would directly suit the Irish boges could be obtained from EDI Rail, the Australian EMD licence holder, and the adaptation of the brake gear, which at 3.25" per side couldn't be too hard..
The 121 was built to standard EMD export dimensions, so I'd doubt that there would be serious clearance problems in the UK as long as the steps and buffer beam were checked and trimmed back if necessary. The cab roof might need to be lowered slightly for the standard BR profile, but nothing dramatic.
I've always had a soft spot for the 121 class, particularly in their original grey and yellow colours. I think they were the only GL8 type built for standard gauge or larger and they were GL8 W4 with full size standard gauge motors (which were always intended to fit within USA standard gauge wheel back to back spacing).
M636C
What's this I read somewhere, that some group in Britain scratch built a steam locomotive, just for shows and tours?
Talking of the Embsay Railway, on the Avon Valley Railway, which I volunteer on, we've just acquired a DMU from them.
Our end of season gala on Sunday, November 2nd, was quiet, partly I suspect because we did not have any visiting locos and the DMU was the only "new" one.
From reading Roger Ford's comments in the latest issue of "Modern Railways" about the new General Electric locos (Class 68?) that Freightliner are buying, it sounds like they could be repeating the mistakes British Rail made back in the 1950's. Basically these new 3,700 hp locos will be powered by an Austrian design of engine which I believe has only been used so far in a couple of prototypes in that country. Definitely a high risk strategy in order to get increased horse power and power to weight ratio.
Is'nt it amazing how spoiled we are here in the UK? I went to the Severn Valley on Friday - 12 working steam locos (13 if you count 7714 in steam on shed as a spare) of which I managed to ride behind 10.
Back home on Friday night then faced with the choice on Saturday of Embsay (45mins drive, 3 working steam locos) or Middleton (30 minutes drive, 4 working steam locos).
I went to Middleton in the end. A short railway but absolutely full of character, with a splendid new museum/visitor centre.
ALCo news - it arrived at Longhoughton this morning. More when I've heard more.
beaulieu wrote:Don't forget "Yeoman II" a fairly standard EMD SW1001 Switcher (Shunter) at the Mendip Quarry which predated the Class 59, is also pretty much standard US design.
Simon,
Thanks for mentioning us on here. The S1 is being jacked ready for loading today and should move to longhoughton by Monday.
As for the Merehead SW1001, does anybody have any contact details for the quarry so I can begin a dialogue with them?
Rugby, posting on here for the first time in 2 years
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