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CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's talk! BYOB ........

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Posted by gbrewer on Monday, March 7, 2005 3:18 PM
Ah memories.

My first ride on a train in Canada was the Canadian. It was just before our son started school so it would have been about 1988. We had driven a VW camper to Banff National Park. I talked my wife into going on to Calgary and taking the train to Vancouver and back. (The train still traveled over the CP at the time).

I had the upper birth while wife and son shared the lower. It is the only time in my life I have ever traveled in a Pullman open section. The trouble with the upper is that you can’t see out. To compensate, I stayed in the dome of the Park car until long after dark. Behind me the brakeman was regaling several young Japanese girls on a package tour with tales of the rails.

The Park car really brought back memories of times when I rode the original California Zephyr and later the Rio Grande Zephyr.

In the diner, I remember the three of us being seated with an elderly lady touring Canada from The Isle of Man. Some day, I must go there.

I rode the Royal Hudson steam train twice including the last year that the Royal Hudson locomotive operated. What a shame it no longer runs.

The BCRail Caraboo Prospector was an interesting ride. I can’t say that I liked the RDC all that much, but the scenery was quite good.

The last trip we took was a ride from Toronto to Niagara Falls. The train itself wasn’t much nor was the scenery, but I still enjoyed it. When we arrived, it was like the 1960 in the US. We felt like we may have come the historic way, but a way hardly ever used anymore.
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, March 7, 2005 3:07 PM
Morseman - Sounds like you and I are destined to share a condo in a tar pit somewhere - you know, for those who posses skills no longer needed - much less understood.

We're kind of like those people who lost out when buggy whips lost their market! Ah, pity the poor anvil salesman too.

I could continue - but won't.

Now to "legitimize" the use of this discussion topic:

I have an HO consist of CN's smoothside coaches, but I couldn't find any affordable green/black ones for the Dominion paint scheme. So, I settled on the black/white. They are in my display case and look good anyway! The "feature" of course is the CP maroon/grey with beaver logo "Canadian" powered by twin EMD E-8 "A" units. Yes!

See ya.

Cheers!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by morseman on Monday, March 7, 2005 1:27 PM
To SIBERIANMO
I mentioned about the Dominion being lot slower than the Canadian
This was account it made quite a few more local stops along the way.

Just aa note about my morse career. I was always interested in RR's
since a kid & someone started up a morse & teletype school
in my neighbourhood. I studied Railroad or American morse,
a bit different from your International morse. I applied to CPR
and got a job as an operator in the CP telegraphs. Most of the
messages sent or recvd were telegrams etc., but still quite
a bit of railroad msges. I applied for a job on the RR line but
as I was dating at the time, & the job coming up would be out on
the prairies I passed it up. When the morse era ended
I went into working jobs Telex, Radio (CBC) monitoring &
regulating, Broadband, etc. etc. CP telecoms joined up with
CN to become CNCP Telecoms, thence to Unitel, Thence
ri AT&T Canada & it's now Alstream & has no connections
with CN or CP. I took early retirement at 55 and with my
wife spend every year taking a cruise & combining it with
a train trip.
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, March 7, 2005 11:42 AM
selector: I checked your profile and no e-mail address came up ......
Suggest you try mine and we'll get the show back on track (so to speak!).

[banghead]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, March 7, 2005 11:06 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple.

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!



===================================================
Good morning!


morseman
QUOTE: To Siberianmo: You mentioned a while back that Via Rail might be getting back on CP tracks. I doubt it. Several years ago they
tried to get back but the Canadian govt refused them permissioon.
Gov't told Via they gave it up years ago and the Rocky Mountaineer is
now operating very profitably on this route & if Via got back then it would
cut into the Rocky Mountaineer's profit and forother reasons.

Everyone talks about the Canadian . When I worked with Cp many,
many years ago I had a pass from Montreal-Vancouver & took
numerous trips with my wife and kids, The pass was no good
on the Canadian though & had to take the Dominion. The same
route but took about 12 hours slower if I remember correctly.
Equipment was the same except there were a few older cars which
were painted silver trying to match the stainless steel cars.
I'm trying to think back now & I think some of the older cars were
baggage cars and a few coaches.


morseman: Are you REALLY a Morse Man - as in morse code/cw operator? The reason I ask is that in a life long ago (mine), I was a radio operator (speed key qualified/certified) and spent many years at sea communicating this way.
Just curious.....

Now to the important "stuff" - trains, as in Canadian!

The information I provided could be rated somewhere between gossip and credible - depending on more variables than I can document. I do concur that the day probably is not going to arrive when the "Canadian" travels once more on the CP trackage. Moreso the political and funding than any other reasons ....

Insofar as the Rocky Mountaineer is concerned, here are my thoughts in a nutshell: When boarding, no doubt someone will tell you to leave your wallets at the door!

I won't dispute the wonderful experience those day trips may be - but unless and until VIA Rail stops crossing Canada - my wife and I will continue traveling in the Park Car(s)!

And why shouldn't everyone talk about perhaps one of the finest, most heralded passenger trains in North America? The "Canadian" is well worth the talk.

Oh yes, I never saw those painted cars you referred to - but I've seen pictures and read about them. Rather cheesy up close - but okay from a distance. Nothing matches the real Budd stainless steel beauties - nothing!

Thanx for the input!
==================================================
athelney
QUOTE: On the subject of Budd cars (RDC - type) - for information to siberianmo - we have 3 Budd RDC's at the West Coast Heritage Park in Squamish BC -- #14 , #21 and #33 all ex BC Rail - although none are at present operating - we have equipment available to make at least one operational - hopefully by the end of 2005.


athelney - I'd love to see 'em, although I seriously doubt our travels will be taking us to Heritage Park in the near future. I have the book, "RDC The Budd Rail Diesel Car," by Donald Duke and Edmund Keilty. Just can't get enough of those cars - whether in pictures or for real. Ill have to see if I can track down those RDC numbers in the book - they really have quite a roster - but of course only up until publication date - 1990.

Appreciate the info!
==================================================
selector
QUOTE: Posted: 06 Mar 2005, 22:42:15
Thanks for the replies and info, siberianmo and athelney. Good to know that others are keeping their fingers on the pulse of Canadian rail ops, past and present.

Siberinamo, would be glad to compare notes/swap stories. Pls contact me at my profiled e-mail address.


selector - Will do!
====================================================


DaveKlepper
QUOTE: The Charlottetown mixed had a GP-7 or GP-9 on the head end. With train boiler. The coach was next, and it was one of the standard smooth side lighweights, when I rode it painted into the white and black with red lettering scheme that was being applied to nearly all CN (and CV and GT) passenger equipment. It did not have the lower capacity and more comfortable seats of the "day-nighters" but did have normal reclining seats. That was the only passenger equipment on the train (other than the boiler in the locomotive). Then came about 15 assorted freight cars, almost but not quite the limite
that could be handled on the ferry at one time. I think there was also a caboose at the rear, but I am not certain. The entire train went on the ferry, with the locomotive doing the switching and boarding last on the center track, somewwhat behind the center point and with freight cars ahead, the first to be pushed off on the Mainland. A good lunch was served upstairs in the ferry dining room, and I do not remember if this was included in the price of the ticket. but I think it was, because I had roomette from Moncton to St. Hycinth
(an eastern suburb of Montreal where the organ firms of Casavant Freres and Le Tournau or located).

One other memory is riding the Firday and Sunday afternoon only Grand Trunk Portland ME - Montreal train. After the B&M-CP Alouette Budd RDC and the overnight Red Wing were discontinued, this was the only way to get from Boston to Montreal by train, unless one went via Springfield and the Montrealer, or Albany and the Laurentian. A B&M Budd car from Boston to Portland, taxi with other connecting pasengers to the GT Station, really just a platform, discovery of the rebult heavyweight parlor "Alouette" on the rear with meal included in the upgrade, and a mostly rear platform ride except when enjoying the meal of good sandwiches and hot coffee. I was very lucky to get the upgrade, since there was no other meal service, and he only had one no-show so I was lucky
indeed! Power again was a GM road-switcher, and the other cars were the regular CN lightweights, about five or six.

After the Charlottown mixed became freight only, instead of a caboose, and old wood closed-platform combine was used, because the train still carried pass riders who used it for points that the replacement bus didn't reach.


Dave - About all I can add to what you've provided is, "Thanx for YOUR memories!"

I always think of "mixed" trains abominations - but no doubt, if that was the only way to go, that is what one traveled aboard. Obviously, making money was at the heart of it all - so wherever and whenever costs could be trimmed, those "mixed" jobs made sense. But to look at them - well - abominations!

Thanx again for your contributions!
==================================================

I'm going to check into the "Coffee Shop" for a bit - see you later!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 7, 2005 4:21 AM
The Charlottetown mixed had a GP-7 or GP-9 on the head end. With train boiler. The coach was next, and it was one of the standard smooth side lighweights, when I rode it painted into the white and black with red lettering scheme that was being applied to nearly all CN (and CV and GT) passenger equipment. It did not have the lower capacity and more comfortable seats of the "day-nighters" but did have normal reclining seats. That was the only passenger equipment on the train (other than the boiler in the locomotive). Then came about 15 assorted freight cars, almost but not quite the limite that could be handled on the ferry at one time. I think there was also a caboose at the rear, but I am not certain. The entire train went on the ferry, with the locomotive doing the switching and boarding last on the center track, somewwhat behind the center point and with freight cars ahead, the first to be pushed off on the Mainland. A good lunch was served upstairs in the ferry dining room, and I do not remember if this was included in the price of the ticket. but I think it was, because I had roomette from Moncton to St. Hycinth (an eastern suburb of Montreal where the organ firms of Casavant Freres and Le Tournau or located).

One other memory is riding the Firday and Sunday afternoon only Grand Trunk Portland ME - Montreal train. After the B&M-CP Alouette Budd RDC and the overnight Red Wing were discontinued, this was the only way to get from Boston to Montreal by train, unless one went via Springfield and the Montrealer, or Albany and the Laurentian. A B&M Budd car from Boston to Portland, taxi with other connecting pasengers to the GT Station, really just a platform, discovery of the rebult heavyweight parlor "Alouette" on the rear with meal included in the upgrade, and a mostly rear platform ride except when enjoying the meal of good sandwiches and hot coffee. I was very lucky to get the upgrade, since there was no other meal service, and he only had one no-show so I was lucky indeed! Power again was a GM road-switcher, and the other cars were the regular CN lightweights, about five or six.

After the Charlottown mixed became freight only, instead of a caboose, and old wood closed-platform combine was used, because the train still carried pass riders who used it for points that the replacement bus didn't reach.
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Posted by selector on Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:42 PM
Thanks for the replies and info, siberianmo and athelney. Good to know that others are keeping their fingers on the pulse of Canadian rail ops, past and present.

Siberinamo, would be glad to compare notes/swap stories. Pls contact me at my profiled e-mail address.
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Posted by athelney on Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:13 PM
On the subject of Budd cars (RDC - type) - for information to siberianmo - we have 3 Budd RDC's at the West Coast Heritage Park in Squamish BC -- #14 , #21 and #33 all ex BC Rail - although none are at present operating - we have equipment available to make at least one operational - hopefully by the end of 2005 .

For selector -- info re CPR Hudson #2860 - she is waiting for repairs to start - soon - parts are ordered and a plan is underway -- you can donate to the Hudson fund from the WCRA website www wcra.org -- or send direct to the WCRA at the address on the site -- we have about $180.000 promised so far but more is obviously needed.
Also underway at the site is a restroration of the ex CPR car 'Alberta " - to be used on the excursion train when finished
2860 Restoration Crew
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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, March 6, 2005 3:34 PM

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by morseman on Sunday, March 6, 2005 3:08 PM
To Siberianmo: You mentioned a while back that Via Rail might be
getting back on CP tracks. I doubt it. Several years ago they
tried to get back but the Canadian govt refused them permissioon.
Gov't told Via they gave it up years ago and the Rocky Mountaineer is
now operating very profitably on this route & if Via got back then it would
cut into the Rocky Mountaineer's profit and forother reasons.

Everyone talks about the Canadian . When I worked with Cp many,
many years ago I had a pass from Montreal-Vancouver & took
numerous trips with my wife and kids, The pass was no good
on the Canadian though & had to take the Dominion. The same
route but took about 12 hours slower if I remember correctly.
Equipment was the same except there were a few older cars which
were painted silver trying to match the stainless steel cars.
I'm trying to think back now & I think some of the older cars were
baggage cars and a few coaches.
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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, March 6, 2005 11:47 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!

==================================================
Must be a good day for Gremlins - for this is the 3rd time I've attempted to post a message. Get all the way to the end only to have it disappear when submitted! Hmmmmmm - must be those Canadian freight fans!
==================================================
DaveKlepper
QUOTE: My trips to Newfoundland and PEI were about 1966-1969, and during that period the Ocean split going to both Halifax and North Sidney. I only got to ride the Charlottetown mixed once going from the island, since on my next business trip the passenger service had been replaced by a bus, about 1966 or '67. The bus also used the ferry, which still handled freight cars/


Dave (and passengerfan) Between the two of you, I'd say you have the market cornered on Canadian passenger rail travel spanning several decades. Keep those memories coming!

What kind of equipment did you travel aboard while on the Charlottetown mxed?
===================================================
Selector
QUOTE: Folks, at siberianmo's kind invitation in another forum, I would like to join your group.

I am a retired Armed forces officer who took the VIA tain from Ashcroft, BC to Vancouver in late February of 1974. My destination was the reruiting centre!

As I recall, the 300 km trip took some seven and a half hours through the Fraser Canyon. A little basic arithmetic will derive an average speed of about 45 kph, or about 26 mph. I was not impressed, but only because I had driven the same route many times on the highway opposite the railway. That is, the scenery was 'old hat'.

My most recent trip was a year ago between Ottawa and Toronto....this time in First Class. It was a muuuuuuch better experience, believe me.

I will offer that I like trains in general, with no preference for freight or pax. I really like the hissing, clanking, thrumming, and ground shaking of steam locomotives, and since the only ones that still run are on the 'tour' trains, I am very much a supporter of them. For example, once I find out how to do it, I will donate some funds to the refurbishment of the Royal Hudson. I would die a happy soul if I could stand at the side of the road and experience it thunder past at a regulator setting of 50% and cut-off of 35% with 220 lbs of head on it. As Tim the Toolman would growl, "Ooh, oohhh, ooohhh!"


Selector - Your reference to Fraser Canyon brings back some memories. On Friday, January 3rd, 2003, while aboard the "Canadian" bound for Vancouver a landslide struck the train at about 2:30 AM. The incident took place just a bit north of Boston Bar and didn't cause any serious injuries to people or equipment. Apparently the portion of the slide that hit the train, struck the dining car, with very little visible damage. Of course, the track was closed for about six hours.

That delay turned out to be something like making lemonade out of lemon - for we all got to view scenery that would have been otherwise totally in darkness had the schedule not been interrupted. The memories will live!

Traveling VIA! has always been a positive experience for me. The only thing I manage to screw up with is planning the meals in advance. I'm not one to dine heavily in the mornings or at lunch, so something less filling is fine with me. Unfortunately, I either forget or try to make arrangements too late for the VIA folks to accommodate me. Must be my ever increasing "senior moments"!

Steam engines are fascinating indeed. They pass through these parts every now and then as the focal point for rail excursions, largely Union Pacific run. Although I am a diesel fan, dyed in the wool so-to-speak, those steamers really can (and do) attract a crowd. Ever wonder about the public's affection for watching trains - but when it comes to suporting them, oh well .......??

By the way, I too am a retired military officer - perhaps we should get together by e-mail and exchange some experiences.

Thanx for "dropping in" and don't be a stranger!
=========================================

VIA Rail's "Malahat" and "Skeena" - any takers??

Regards!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 6, 2005 3:49 AM
My trips to Newfoundland and PEI were about 1966-1969, and during that period the Ocean split going to both Halifax and North Sidney. I only got to ride the Charlottetown mixed once going from the island, since on my next business trip the passenger service had been replaced by a bus, about 1966 or '67. The bus also used the ferry, which still handled freight cars/
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Posted by selector on Saturday, March 5, 2005 11:06 PM
Folks, at siberianmo's kind invitation in another forum, I would like to join your group.

I am a retired Armed forces officer who took the VIA tain from Ashcroft, BC to Vancouver in late February of 1974. My destination was the reruiting centre!

As I recall, the 300 km trip took some seven and a half hours through the Fraser Canyon. A little basic arithmetic will derive an average speed of about 45 kph, or about 26 mph. I was not impressed, but only because I had driven the same route many times on the highway opposite the railway. That is, the scenery was 'old hat'.

My most recent trip was a year ago between Ottawa and Toronto....this time in First Class. It was a muuuuuuch better experience, believe me.

I will offer that I like trains in general, with no preference for freight or pax. I really like the hissing, clanking, thrumming, and ground shaking of steam locomotives, and since the only ones that still run are on the 'tour' trains, I am very much a supporter of them. For example, once I find out how to do it, I will donate some funds to the refurbishment of the Royal Hudson. I would die a happy soul if I could stand at the side of the road and experience it thunder past at a regulator setting of 50% and cut-off of 35% with 220 lbs of head on it. As Tim the Toolman would growl, "Ooh, oohhh, ooohhh!"
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, March 5, 2005 3:02 PM
egmurphy
QUOTE: In 1956 we traveled from New Haven up to Sydney, NS by train. Took the ferry across to Port Aux Basques, Nfld. Then on by train as far as Clarenville. Unfortunately I was young and not yet into trains, and my memories of the trip are about nil. What a waste.

I do have a framed B&W print of the " Newfie Bullet". Does that count?

My only ' adult' experience riding trains in Canada came when I was working up in Ft McMurray, Alberta, and had a couple of chances to ride the old "Muskeg Mixed" on the NAR from Ft Mac down to Edmonton. But that's hardly in the same league as the passenger travel you guys are talking about.


Ed - In 1957, I was riding the New Haven between New London, CT and NYC on a regular basis over the weekends. I NEVER knew one could ride from anywhere in Connecticut to Sydney, NS! But, then again - why not??!! Trains were still going virtually everywhere in the U.S. and Canada in those times.

All of my childhood train riding experience were aboard U.S. railroads, so those tales are for another day ...... but I know what you mean about "waste."

The Newfy or Newfie Bullet counts for lots - and to have a framed print "double counts."

Tell us MORE about the Muskeg Mixed - sounds like you have all kinds of stories that surely "qualify" for the intent of this discussion!

Thanx for the contribution and let's keep it going ........
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by egmurphy on Saturday, March 5, 2005 12:03 PM
In 1956 we traveled from New Haven up to Sydney, NS by train. Took the ferry across to Port Aux Basques, Nfld. Then on by train as far as Clarenville. Unfortunately I was young and not yet into trains, and my memories of the trip are about nil. What a waste.

I do have a framed B&W print of the " Newfie Bullet". Does that count?

My only ' adult' experience riding trains in Canada came when I was working up in Ft McMurray, Alberta, and had a couple of chances to ride the old "Muskeg Mixed" on the NAR from Ft Mac down to Edmonton. But that's hardly in the same league as the passenger travel you guys are talking about.


Regards

Ed
The Rail Images Page of Ed Murphy "If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion and avoid the people, you might better stay home." - James Michener
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, March 5, 2005 9:03 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!


=============================================================
andrewjonathon
QUOTE: My first decade of life nearly coincided with the last decade of the Canadian as a CP passenger train. I have one vivid memory of the Canadian from my childhood. I grew up in the countryside about 1/4 mile from the CN branchline that went south from the CP Rail mainline near Kamloops to Kelowna in BC. At a town called Armstrong it connected with a CPR branchline. The two branchlines and the mainline effectively made a large triangle. Anyway, I could always hear the freight trains coming and I would race down the driveway to the rail tracks to wave or at night I'd fla***he porch light on and off - even at 4:00AM. My family thought I was nuts. Naturally, in at that time the branchline only had freight trains. One day, I heard a train coming but when I had raced out to the tracks imagine my surprise to see a gleaming stainless steel passenger train go rolling by loaded with people, dome cars and all. It was the only time to my knowledge that it ever happened. I suppose the train must have been detoured via the two branch lines due to a derailment on the CPR mainline. I don't know why since the mainline must have had other derailments and the train was never detoured at other time. Either way, seeing the Canadian on a small branchline like that made an impression I never forgot.


What a great train story - and so vivid too. That's the kind of "stuff" that the movie, "Polar Express" is made of. Childhood surprises with memories that are everlasting. Thanx for sharing your thoughts with us!!
===================================================
passengerfan
QUOTE: My Newfoundland vacation was in 1968 the last year the narrow gauge ran. CN operated three Maritime trains from Montreal at that time The OCEAN between Montreal and Halifax the CHALEUR between Montreal and Gaspe and the SCOTIAN between Montreal and Truro where it split into two trains one going to N. Sydney and Sydney and the other continuing on to Halifax. Besides these the CPR operated the ATLANTIC LIMITED between Montreal and St. John, N.B. via Maine.


And here we are today with VIA Rail carrying on with the "Ocean" running between Montreal and Halifax with six round trips per week (Tuesday's "off"). My wife and I traveled VIA Rail's version of the "Atlantic" in 1990, which was pretty close to the end of the line for that route through Maine. To this day, while traveling aboard VIA Rail, we come across train crew who we remember from the days of the "Atlantic."

Recent announcements from Ottawa indicate that the "Chaleur" may be discontinued for budgetary reasons. That route, Montreal to Gaspe, is one I have had on my "list" for solo trips - but somehow haven't gotten to it - yet. I guess I better get moving!

For those who don't know - the "Chaleur" departs Montreal as part of the "Ocean" then splits at Matapedia for the journey up to Gaspe. On the return, it rejoins the "Ocean," in what always seems to be a very long and laborious process, again at Matapedia. From what I have witnessed - the "Chaleur" has a consist of baggage car, one or two coaches, a Skyline dome, and one or two bedroom cars - all seasonal dependent.

passengerfan: Thanx for the continuing input!
============================================

How about some input from those who have traveled the "Skeena" from Jasper to Prince Ruppert in particular. Also, would like to get some feedback from anyone who has recently boarded VIA Rail's RDC's on Vancouver Island - called the 'Malahat' running between Victoria and Courteny.

My last trip aboard RDC's was in March of 1999 on a roound trip between N. Vancouver and Lilloeet, BC. BC Rail operated daily service on what it called the Cariboo Prospector - a great run all the way to Prince George. What scenery! Just fantasic all the way.

I was disheartened to learn of the selling off of that route with their RDC's. I've tried to keep track of those cars ... but it gets a bit difficult as they wind up "here or there." My HO model railroad features two very accurate LifeLike BC Rail RDC's, with accurate numbering. I run those along my mountain route - replete with lakes (Anderson and Seton ... for those "who know"!), With every run, my thoughts go back to a very enjoyable trip ..........



Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by andrewjonathon on Friday, March 4, 2005 10:36 PM
I assume 1968 is a typo right because didn't railway service on Newfoundland last until 1988?

My first decade of life nearly coincided with the last decade of the Canadian as a CP passenger train. I have one vivid memory of the Canadian from my childhood. I grew up in the countryside about 1/4 mile from the CN branchline that went south from the CP Rail mainline near Kamloops to Kelowna in BC. At a town called Armstrong it connected with a CPR branchline. The two branchlines and the mainline effectively made a large triangle. Anyway, I could always hear the freight trains coming and I would race down the driveway to the rail tracks to wave or at night I'd fla***he porch light on and off - even at 4:00AM. My family thought I was nuts. Naturally, in at that time the branchline only had freight trains. One day, I heard a train coming but when I had raced out to the tracks imagine my surprise to see a gleaming stainless steel passenger train go rolling by loaded with people, dome cars and all. It was the only time to my knowledge that it ever happened. I suppose the train must have been detoured via the two branch lines due to a derailment on the CPR mainline. I don't know why since the mainline must have had other derailments and the train was never detoured at other time. Either way, seeing the Canadian on a small branchline like that made an impression I never forgot.
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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, March 4, 2005 8:41 PM
My Newfoundland vacation was in 1968 the last year the narrow gauge ran. CN operated three Maritime trains from Montreal at that time The OCEAN between Montreal and Halifax the CHALEUR between Montreal and Gaspe and the SCOTIAN between Montreal and Truro where it split into two trains one going to N. Sydney and Sydney and the other continuing on to Halifax. Besides these the CPR operated the ATLANTIC LIMITED between Montreal and St. John, N.B. via Maine.
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, March 4, 2005 8:28 AM
DaveKlepper
QUOTE: The Ocean both ways to North Sidney in a roomette was fine, also .....


Hey Dave - learned something new. I had no idea that CN ran the "Ocean Limited" to North Sydney, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. Do you recall the years - approximate will do. From what I recall (but not by first hand account - rather from what I've heard from friends in Sydney) they used to connect at Truro, Nova Scotia for the westbound "Ocean Limited" or other trans. Anyway, perhaps it was a through car service you experienced on what I believe was a three per day schedule between Halifax and Sydney/N. Sydney.

Anyone "out there" know for sure?
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THE BRAS D'OR EXCURSION TRAIN:

In 2000, my wife and I traveled VIA Rail's Bras d'Or between Halifax and Sydney. This first class excursion train was in its inaugural year and turned out to be a very enjoyable trip for the 17 - yes 17 - paying passengers on that August sunny day. The consist was made up of a baggage car - coach - Skyline dome and Park Car observation dome. Food service at your seat - and it was excellent. On board entertainment was also provided - story tellers, dancers, etc. Really quite an experience, but a rather long day - 12 hours I believe from boarding to arrival.

That train was supposedly going to be a two year experiment to ascertain interest in marketing a new venture of VIA Rail and Cape Breton business groups in bringing more tourism to Sydney. The two years have elapsed and the train ran last season - May through October.

There never really was an attempt to revitalize regularly scheduled passenger service between Halifax and Sydney, as many in Sydney had falsely believed. To this day - some friends of mine who are in business - are dearly disappointed in the absence of a viable method of travel between where they are and the rest of the world. If you have ever spent time in that area - it is both a wonderful place and foreboding one as well. Only the hale and hardy need apply!

Anyway, unless Ottawa goes through with an announced cut back of VIA Rail funds, the Bras d'Or is still scheduled to operate this year.

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We have relatives in Bedford, NS (Halifax, now ....) and the house is between Bedford Basin and CN's trackage - so the views on both sides are absolutely wonderful. Trains and the beauty of Nova Scotia! Love 'em both.

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passengerfan
QUOTE: Newfoundland Railway was 3' 6" and when built they paid the builder by the mile that is why the route between St. Johns and Port Aux Basques was so long.
Imentioned earlier about the crew layover in Argentia it was actually Argentia Junction where the main line and branch line split to Argentia.
I found the entire Island to be a great place to visit. Lots to see such as Gander airport, The hill in St. Johns where Marconi sent his first trans Atlantic transmission. On the other side of the Island theiir was a U S airforce base a Stephenville.


As I mentioned in an earlier response, I have more than a cursory knowledge of Newfoundland, having made many port calls in Argentia and St. John's. I know of Argentia Junction - in fact, a friend of mine used to rent one of the very few houses located there on a seasonal basis - the wrong season! He was assigned to the U.S. Coast Guard's International Ice Patrol Radio Station at Argentia (NIK .... for those who care about these things - dahdit ditdit dahditdah was the "song" sung over the continuous wave of the day!) Oh yes -Marconi's "What hath God wrought," brings back some memories too.
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Thanx to both of you for your contributions!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, March 4, 2005 7:16 AM
Newfoundland Railway was 3' 6" and when built they paid the builder by the mile that is why the route between St. Johns and Port Aux Basques was so long.
Imentioned earlier about the crew layover in Argentia it was actually Argentia Junction where the main line and branch line split to Argentia.
I found the entire Island to be a great place to visit. Lots to see such as Gander airport, The hill in St. Johns where Marconi sent his first trans Atlantic transmission. On the other side of the Island theiir was a U S airforce base a Stephenville.
The Port Aux Basques shops were interesting as the ferries that brought railroad cars to the Island were equipped with standard guage tracks and they had to be changed to narrow gauge before leaving the port. Their was a long building where the standard gauge cars entered and their trucks were changed out to narrow gauge for their time on the Island. The trucks were stored in the building and the same trucks were returned to that particular car before the ferry ride back to the mainland.
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 4, 2005 2:24 AM
I had many wonderful experiences riding passenger trains in Canada. I did ride the CP Canadian, about 1969, but only from Brandon to Winnepeg in a coach, about the least scenic portion of the line. Was returnomg from a business visit to Brandon, returning to the Chicago area with the Winnepeg Lmtd to St, Paul, Morning Hiawatha to Milwaukee, and the Afternooon Hiawatha to Glenside, later taxi to O'Hare to pick up my car. Same year rode the Newfy Bullet in an upper birth both ways, and our group had a business car on the rear with limited available access to the observation platform. The Ocean both ways to North Sidney in a roomette was fine, also, ditto the International from Chicago to Tornoto. Once connected to the Ocean by riding the mixed train from Charlottetown, PEI to Moncton, with postwar lightweight coach, freight cars, and GP-7 or GP-9 all on the car ferry, the loco on the middle track, of course, and lunch served upstairs in the ferry's diningroom.
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 3, 2005 11:37 PM
Thanx to all for your contributions to this topic! I know this is getting a bit repetitive on my part - but reading the overwhelming majority of submissions is everything I hoped we could make of this subject.
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I'm nearing my 67th birthday and am somewhat of a late starter as a practicing rail fan. I spent 32 years in the military with very few opportunities to do the things that are now available to me in retirement. We have all been (or still are) there; you know - raising families - working to support them - paying the bills - keeping up with the Jones' (whoever in they are!!), etc. With all of that way behind me - I can now focus on what's important in life: my wife - our dog - and of course - TRAINS!
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Passengerfan: Your experiences and willingness to share them has simply made my day - so to speak. Just reading about those trips you have taken has given me some pretty vivid pictures of how nice it must have been when CN and CP were rivals and the trains were fast, frequent and full.

Am I correct when I say that the Newfoundland railroad was narrow gauge? Again, in the era I am speaking of (late 1950's until its demise) I was more of a sailor than rail rider!
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For trainboy:

It was just last year that I was engaged in conversation with some people in Canada who were convinced that VIA Rail was in fact going to get back to the CP tracks.

However, Ottawa may have changed all of that with the budget games that seemingly never end -either in your country or ours. (Enough: our "ground rules prohibit political stuff!!) - My apologies!!

Anyway, I too prefer the CP's maroon and grey with the beaver shield - looks great! As a matter of fact I have a 9 car consist of them in one of my wall mounted display cases - all Budd stainless steel powered by EMD E-8's "A/A." It will be put on my "Can-Am" HO layout for a commerative run on the 50th anniversary of the Canadian!!

Thanx for your input!
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For andrewjonathan:

Amtrak already does a version of the red-white-blue fares, except they go with what they term as "buckets." Pretty much the same idea - different fares for different periods of demand. But, I do agree - IF Amtrak is to continue and IF Amtrak can get the serious stuff attended to (on time performance - equipment repair, upgrade and replacement) then the promotions people could use that red-white-blue "hook" for fare advertisements.

I could expound somewhat on Amtrak - but since I started this discussion subject, I'd be breaking my "groundrules" again!

Thanx for your input!
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EVERY COUPLE OF DAYS, I'M GOING TO REPEAT THE GROUNRULES: Here we go again!

The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by andrewjonathon on Thursday, March 3, 2005 10:27 PM
Thanks. It sounds like a great promotional idea. Amtrak should revive it, it sounds patriotic, it simple to understand and if it fills trains that would otherwise run empty it would also increase revenue.
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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, March 3, 2005 9:50 PM
Red fares were the most expensive and applied to the busiest travel days. Blue Fares were 1/3 off and were for days not so popular , and the white days were half off for the least popular travel days. That is from memory it may have been just the opposite as I get older my mind plays tricks on me sometimes. One thing the Red White and Blue fares accomplished was it filled trains and the CN purchased many used surplus cars from the US and filled them too.
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Posted by andrewjonathon on Thursday, March 3, 2005 9:44 PM
What was the deal with the red, white and blue fares? It sounds like it should be an American promotion.
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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, March 3, 2005 8:53 PM
The CN train in the late 1960's early 1970's was a pretty good train as well. The CN SUPER CONTINENTAL featured a full length dome former Milwaukee Road a 48 seat dining car and even had an observationb car unfortunately it was a remodeled Fort series streamlined and operated mid train next to the diner reserved for the sleeping car passengers. The CN train at the time provided nightly Bingo games in the diner open to all passengers and the prizes were combs CN playing cards and breakfasts in the diner. The CN train was clean and comfortable while rival CP CANADIAN cars were becoming threadbare and beginning to show their age. It wasn't until Via Rail Canada that the cars were completely refurbished and rebuilt and once again became something to brag about. Sure the Government operated CN at the time but they did a pretty good job of getting passengerrs to ride the trains once again. Those Red White and Blue fares and all of the TV advertising filled most trains I rode at that time, and many ran with extra cars.
CN filled the lounge cars with thirsty patrons as well. Very clever how every table was set with the saltiest pretzels I have ever tasted and they were free. Oh did I mention you probably drank twice as much due to the salty pretzels. Amtrak could learn a lesson from CN on marketing.
CN sleeping cars were built by Pullman and were comfortable and quiet and the red white and Blue fares applied to them as well.
The OCEAN between Montreal and Halifax operated with former Milwaukee Skytop lounge Observations providing an excellent overnight trip to and from the Nova Scotia's largest city. The SCOTIAN another train between Montreal and Halifax at the time split into two sections eastbound at Truro, Nova Scotian with one section continuing to Halifax and the other continuing to the Sydney where connections were made with the ferries to Newfoundland. Overnight service between Montreal and Toronto was very popular at that time with the CAVALIER often operating as many as twenty cars the majority sleepers. Many business people traveled this train as it departed after eleven at night and arrived just before eight the next morning in the opposite city. Passengers were allowed to board the sleeping cars after nine PM and could retire or go to the lounge for a nightcap. The lounge was usually packed until well after midnight.
Anothet transcontinental train operated by the CN at the time was the PANORAMA actually two separate trains one between Toronto/Montreal and Winnipeg the other between Winnipeg and Vancouver. There was nearly a twelve hour layover in Winnipeg if you chose to ride this train from east to west. The CN operated a connecting train from Jasper to Prince Rupert that was nicknamed the Rupert Rocket for its lack of speed.
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Posted by trainboyH16-44 on Thursday, March 3, 2005 4:16 PM
I love the CPR's Canadian in the days before action red, not that I don't like action red. When VIA took over, that was the low point. It is better now because it is back to the all Budd consist(Is there some change that I don't know about?) Remember when it was powered by both FP9s and F40s, and there was CP and CN equipment? that was ugly. I like the all Budd consists, but the refurbished CPR Heavyweights wern't bad, either. Now if we could get it back on CPR tracks past my house, ALMOST all would be right in the world.(HAH! not by a long shot)
Trainboy

Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296

Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/

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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, March 3, 2005 4:02 PM
The train I remember between St. Johns and Argentia was a mixed train that one day ran from St. Johns to Argentia then laid over and operated the next day from Argentia to Bonavista traversing the only complete look on the narrow gauge road. I dropped a Camera lens cover off the back of the coach/caboose while filming the loop and the crew of the train offered to back up and look for it. The crew actually stayed on the caboose - coach combination for the overnight in Argentia. After turning in Bonavista the train returned to St. Johns. The thing I remember most about the Newfie Bullet was that the cars did not have tightlock couplers and the cars were constantly banging back and forth due to the slack action and the profile of the track. In spite of this I was in a sleeper and got a very good nights sleep. I meant some of the finest railroaders on my Newfoundland trip i ever found anywhere. Cab rides were with the blessing of the railroad as they knew its days were numbered. And two years later it was shut down.
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 3, 2005 12:10 PM
Passengerfan:

Thanx for that information! Sounds like you have more than just a bit of knowledge about the subject and it is appreciated.

A long time ago I had an opportunity to travel between Argentia, Newfoundland and St. John's by train. Unfortunately, I was unable to get away from my ship for the amount of time required for the round trip. Looking back on it, how close I came to adding some RR history to my experiences. By the way, was that the "Newfie Bullet" you referred to?
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Here's a bit of info about the Turbo Train for those who are interested - got it from
http://www.freewebs.com/rail/turbotrain.htm:

The United Aircraft Turbo Train built by Sikorsky, also known as the Turbo in Canada,
is my favorite passenger train.

Introduced in the United States in late 1960 and in Canada in 1968 the Turbo holds the
Canadian speed record. The United Aircraft (Sikorsky) Turbotrain reached 170.8 MPH in
December 1967, and a CN Turbo reached 140.6 MPH on April 1976, the current Canadian speed record. The American Turbo was used between Boston and New York. In Canada the Turbo was mainly used in the Toronto - Montreal corridor.

The Turbotrain was powered by a series of aircraft [gas-turbine] engines and was build out of aluminium skin. To keep passengers upright in curves the Turbo was equipped with a pendulous banking suspension. The Turbotrain was designed for high-speed performance over existing rail infrastructure in the US North-East corridor. The Turbo had guided axles, which enabled the train to take curves at speeds 40% greater than conventional trains. Turbo service in the US started in 1968, but due a variety of technical problems the Amtrak Turbo's were phased-out in 1972.

The Canadian CN / VIA Rail Turbo were in operation until 1982. VIA Rail retired the Turbo in October of that year. The two remaining train set were later scrapped in New Jersey.

Unfortunately none survived for display in Museums.
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TomTrain:

I recently rode VIA Rail between Toronto and Montreal (round trip) and the total time for each journey was about 5 hours - probably way less than the Turbo of old. The trip is enjoyable and when you go VIA1, well the amenities are fine too!
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Keep the comments coming ..... CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADING is what we are talking about!


Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, March 3, 2005 8:32 AM
Rode the Turbos many times between Toronto and Montreal when I lived in Toronto. Remember boarding the morning Turbo from Toronto one AM in the winter and was traveling turboclub so got in the dome expecting to see the engineer as their was only a clear plastic set of doors separating the engind compartment from the parlor seats in the dome. To my surprise their was a MLW FPA-4 coupled to the turbo for the run to Montreal that morning. Right on schedule the train deprted and the car attendant let me know that quite often in the winter the train ran this way as one or more of the turbines was inoperative and that fine light snow so common to the area was expected, apparently the fine snow played havoc with the turbines. That morning the turbines were providing only the hotel power for the train and all propulsion was supplied by the single FPA-4. One thing I discovered right away was the diesel electric accelerated faster than the turbo did and when slowing to cross over to the other main the diesel regained its speed faster. The train arrived in Montreeal two minutes early. I learned later that because of the light weight of the Turbo train the diesels had little problem keeping the turbo on the advertised. The schedule was 4 hours 30 minutes at the time. The Turbos only shaved 29 minutes off the previous Rapido scheddules that were operated with conventional passenger equipment and diesels.
I also had the pleasure of riding the Newfie Bullet the year before it was discontinued and that is one memory I will treasure forever.
I have traveled many times on the CN and CPR trains across Canada from one end to the other and never had a disappointing trip. I was fortunate to experience CN when the Red White and Blue fares were all the rage and the majority of trains were running full or close to full. I give CN a gold star for trying but alas it wasn't to be.

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