charlie hebdo Democracy does not emerge out of nowhere.
American tend to forget that, probably because there was a certain amount of luck and circumstance involved in the development of American democracy.
By this I mean that while the French, Spanish, and Dutch colonies in the New World were always under the tight control of their home governments the colonists in British North America were essentially dumped on the beach. Those colonists were forced into developing their own governments, first local then colony-wide. By the time of the Revolution there were thirteen fuctioning democracies in British North America, not identical or perfect but functioning just the same. But it didn't happen overnight, it took time.
charlie hebdoThe historic context is part of the admittance process.
Point out below where it states pre WWII History is even relevant............. If it was, how did they reconcile offering NATO Membership to Russia of all countries?
https://1997-2001.state.gov/regions/eur/fs_members.html
Russia and NATO signed some cooperation agreements but I don't think Russia ever applied for NATO membership. Putin has recently claimed that he asked Clinton about it in 2000, but I think that's just maskirovka to try to put Russia in the aggrieved party position for their attack on Ukraine.
There's a reason Russia isn't in NATO. NATO was founded to counter the USSR (Russia). Yeah, I know they aren't the same thing, but Russia was by far the dominant member. Couldn't you see what a mess it would be right now if Russia was a member?
CMStPnP Euclid US undersecretary of state acknowledges there are biological warfare labs in Ukraine https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html The exchange between herself and Marco Rubio was clarifying they were regular medical research labs that every country has to research infectious biological agents and have nothing to do with biological warfare
Euclid US undersecretary of state acknowledges there are biological warfare labs in Ukraine https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html
The exchange between herself and Marco Rubio was clarifying they were regular medical research labs that every country has to research infectious biological agents and have nothing to do with biological warfare
It doesn't really matter. The first reason for their invasion was to "protect" the breakaway regions. Then it was to save the Ukrainian people from their leaders. Then it was to get rid of "Nazis". Now, they were "concerned" about biolabs. Yet, they have their fellow travelers who constantly make excuses for them.
BackshopThere's a reason Russia isn't in NATO. NATO was founded to counter the USSR (Russia).
As a British general once said concerning Europe and NATO:
"NATO was founded to keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down."
What people need to remember is this Chencyna fought the Russian Army to a standstill in the 90's. Afghanistan DEFEATED the entire freaking USSR then the USA fighting us both in the last 40 years. The USA lost to North Vietnam in the 60's and 70's due to the number of KIA and WIA they sent home. Russia in not the Soviet Union of the 30's and 40's where Stalin would have killed off half the population to survive the war. Putin can not risk losing to much for one simple reason way to many people have access to reliable outside information now. His new draconion laws he has rammed into effect are going to boomerang on him in the worst way. Why is that people that have tasted freedom will want more of it. His throwing people in prison for up to 15 years for saying the wrong words is going to cause the people to say NO MORE. Just watch and wait he is going to lose and lose everything.
Backshop It doesn't really matter. The first reason for their invasion was to "protect" the breakaway regions. Then it was to save the Ukrainian people from their leaders. Then it was to get rid of "Nazis". Now, they were "concerned" about biolabs. Yet, they have their fellow travelers who constantly make excuses for them.
One of them is a Fox News host, although some might characterize him as a "useful idiot.'. Another is a current resident of Palm Beach.
Our friend Koch is not condeming Russia.
Koch Industries continues doing business in Russia (popular.info)
charlie hebdo Backshop It doesn't really matter. The first reason for their invasion was to "protect" the breakaway regions. Then it was to save the Ukrainian people from their leaders. Then it was to get rid of "Nazis". Now, they were "concerned" about biolabs. Yet, they have their fellow travelers who constantly make excuses for them. One of them is a Fox News host, although some might characterize him as a "useful idiot.'. Another is a current resident of Palm Beach.
Backshop charlie hebdo Backshop It doesn't really matter. The first reason for their invasion was to "protect" the breakaway regions. Then it was to save the Ukrainian people from their leaders. Then it was to get rid of "Nazis". Now, they were "concerned" about biolabs. Yet, they have their fellow travelers who constantly make excuses for them. One of them is a Fox News host, although some might characterize him as a "useful idiot.'. Another is a current resident of Palm Beach. Being a firearms enthusiast, I frequent a few "conservative" forums. The love of Putin is widespread among them. It's scary because they're all "patriots".
Being a firearms enthusiast, I frequent a few "conservative" forums. The love of Putin is widespread among them. It's scary because they're all "patriots".
ANYONE loving Putin can not be a patriot of the USA.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The funny thing is that one of the best ways of countering Russian power was keeping oil prices low and for Europe to find alternatives to Russian natural gas.
Right wingers here and elsewhere love white autocrats like Putin. Russia has many fine people who might just overthrow Putin. But Russia is also the home base for a lot of White Power types and neo-Nazi racists.
BaltACD Backshop charlie hebdo Backshop It doesn't really matter. The first reason for their invasion was to "protect" the breakaway regions. Then it was to save the Ukrainian people from their leaders. Then it was to get rid of "Nazis". Now, they were "concerned" about biolabs. Yet, they have their fellow travelers who constantly make excuses for them. One of them is a Fox News host, although some might characterize him as a "useful idiot.'. Another is a current resident of Palm Beach. Being a firearms enthusiast, I frequent a few "conservative" forums. The love of Putin is widespread among them. It's scary because they're all "patriots". ANYONE loving Putin can not be a patriot of the USA.
I'm sure Father Coughlin's listeners and the members of the German-American Bund also considered themselves to be patriots.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
BaltACDANYONE loving Putin can not be a patriot of the USA.
Alas, with reports of of US involved bio labs in the Ukraine (following on to China and the "Rona") and stories of corruption involving the Ukraine and certain higher-ups in this country, not to mention corruption in the Ukraine, it's not hard to imagine that people could feel that way.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 BaltACD ANYONE loving Putin can not be a patriot of the USA. Alas, with reports of of US involved bio labs in the Ukraine (following on to China and the "Rona") and stories of corruption involving the Ukraine and certain higher-ups in this country, not to mention corruption in the Ukraine, it's not hard to imagine that people could feel that way.
BaltACD ANYONE loving Putin can not be a patriot of the USA.
It is equally easy for them to be viewed as traitors to the USA. The 'Alternative Fact' movement is the home for traitors. Putin is 'alternative facts' in person - all lies all the time.
lol... if nothing else, this post is proof that Russian propaganda does work.
CMStPnPThe exchange between herself [Victoria Nuland] and Marco Rubio was clarifying they were regular medical research labs that every country has to research infectious biological agents and have nothing to do with biological warfare
1) Biological research having nothing to do with military weapon applications. In other words, bio labs researching medicines and vaccines for fighting disease.
2) Biological research into dangerous pathogens and to explore how they may be used in biological weapons of war. Here, the potential for such research could be to use it for either the creation of biological weapons, the defense against them, or both.
3) The research and manufacture of biological weapons.
I believe that #2 is correct. I've also read (can't find it now), that the reason the Russians knew about the labs is that they were former Soviet labs.
BaltACD tree68 BaltACD ANYONE loving Putin can not be a patriot of the USA. Alas, with reports of of US involved bio labs in the Ukraine (following on to China and the "Rona") and stories of corruption involving the Ukraine and certain higher-ups in this country, not to mention corruption in the Ukraine, it's not hard to imagine that people could feel that way. It is equally easy for them to be viewed as traitors to the USA. The 'Alternative Fact' movement is the home for traitors. Putin is 'alternative facts' in person - all lies all the time.
One of the more fascinating developments in U.S. politics in recent years is the emergence of Putin sympathizers/apologists on the right. This phenomenon has been prevalent in Europe for some years now, as far-right parties in Austria, Germany, Hungary, France, and other countries have been unabashed in their fawning over Putin. In 2016, these sentiments gained a foothold in the GOP mainstream, led by the Putin-Sympathizer-in-Chief; one of many reasons that Ronald Reagan is undoubtedly rolling over in his grave.
Thankfully, the traditional Reaganites in the GOP have the upper hand -- at least for the moment -- and the Putin fanboys and -girls have been marginalized.
PsychotOne of the more fascinating developments in U.S. politics in recent years is the emergence of Putin sympathizers/apologists on the right. This phenomenon has been prevalent in Europe for some years now, as far-right parties in Austria, Germany, Hungary, France, and other countries have been unabashed in their fawning over Putin. In 2016, these sentiments gained a foothold in the GOP mainstream, led by the Putin-Sympathizer-in-Chief; one of many reasons that Ronald Reagan is undoubtedly rolling over in his grave. Thankfully, the traditional Reaganites in the GOP have the upper hand -- at least for the moment -- and the Putin fanboys and -girls have been marginalized.
You can start with the former SPD Chancellor of Germany.
EuclidIt seems to me there are three different distinctions within this topic: 1) Biological research having nothing to do with military weapon applications. In other words, bio labs researching medicines and vaccines for fighting disease. 2) Biological research into dangerous pathogens and to explore how they may be used in biological weapons of war. Here, the potential for such research could be to use it for either the creation of biological weapons, the defense against them, or both. 3) The research and manufacture of biological weapons. It seems to me that the actual verified facts are related to item #2. If so, there may not be any illegality or controversy to this at all. It would depend on the laws pertaining to such research. #2 would also explain Victoria Nuland’s concern that the biological materials in the labs might end up in Russian hands, a concern that would be unlikely if the labs are related to item #1. There is no evidence that these labs were actually manufacturing agent for use in chemical weapons. However, it seems to me that the discovery of these labs in the context of a war would be at least highly significant. Apparently, it was Russia that first broke the news of the labs, and they did so under the, at least, the implied premise that the U.S. was conducting research to develop agents for use in chemical weapons, or even manufacturing them. I perceive a lot of the response to this news to be denial that any of the three items above are true. And out of this denial has come the allegation that Russia made up the whole story to use as a false flag to cover up their plans to actually use chemical weapons to win the war in Ukraine. In other words, Russia will attack with chemical weapons and claim that that the Ukrainians did it. So, under this theory, the Ukrainian labs, allegedly found, will be the source of the weapons Ukraine will use against Russia in Ukraine. Therefore the allegations for the existence of these labs will set the stage for making it believable that Ukraine used chemical weapons, when it will actually be the Russians who will have used them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lUt6DMfrBgIt was crystal clear it was the first instance labs related to civilian pathogens and it was made even clearer if you listened to Senator Warners remarks How you got this all messed up in your head is anyones guess no matter because some on FOX News are confused as well recommend you review the CSPAN coverage
EuclidSources, facts, definition of terms??
He has problems with balance as he missed the Putin Poster Child in Europe, whom is the Liberal former head of the SPD Gerhard Schroder. How you could have missed that is bewildering unless your intention is to be partisan here.
Backshop I believe that #2 is correct. I've also read (can't find it now), that the reason the Russians knew about the labs is that they were former Soviet labs.
No they are innocent civilian labs. If the Russians stripped the country of Nuclear weapons it is not going to leave the bio-weapons labs behind if there were any. Further the Soviet Union got rid of most of them I believe prior to dissoloution. Anyways, watch the youtube clip I posted above. The United States would not share bio weapons data with Ukraine and then have reservations about giving state of the art weapons to Ukraine due to it's corruption issue. Think this through, it does not make any sense.
CMStPnP Backshop I believe that #2 is correct. I've also read (can't find it now), that the reason the Russians knew about the labs is that they were former Soviet labs. No they are innocent civilian labs. If the Russians stripped the country of Nuclear weapons it is not going to leave the bio-weapons labs behind if there were any. Further the Soviet Union got rid of most of them I believe prior to dissoloution. Anyways, watch the youtube clip I posted above. The United States would not share bio weapons data with Ukraine and then have reservations about giving state of the art weapons to Ukraine due to it's corruption issue. Think this through, it does not make any sense.
If anything, the reason Russia is making this charge is probably to justify their attack on Ukraine by saying it is preemptive self-defense against being attacked by Ukraine with chemical weapons. That would be my guess. It is just propaganda to shift blame for the war.
Euclid But I am not convinced that their reason for lying is to create a false flag pretext for using chemical weapons and then blaming it on Ukraine. If a bunch of Ukrainians are suddenly gassed to death by Russia, do you really think Russia believes they can blame that on being done by Ukraine just to make Russians look bad?
Yes.
Euclid Give me a plausible explanation of the exact motive and actions behind this false flag.
Claims like this are not supposed to convince us or anyone else outside of Russia. They only have to convince the Russian population who already gets all their news from RT or other state media.
For France, the Putin apologist was Marine Le Pen, for Hungary it is Victor Orban. Both of these have now changed their tune. Ms. Le Pen changed her tune when with the Invasion of Ukraine her approval rating in the polls was cut in half. Mr. Orban also changed his tune at the same time, perhaps because if Russia takes over Ukraine Hungary will be neighbors. But the biggest Putin syncophant is Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson who is BFF with the son of ex-KGB Agent Alexey Lebedev, and even raised the son to the British peerage. There is a reason that the US and most members of NATO limit sensitive intelligence information that they share with Britain.
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