JayBeeIf Russia were to use a nuclear weapon on anybody, small or large, the Non-Proliferation Treaty will be ignored by most countries.
So how does that work? Every country abandons NATO and goes it's own way and makes it's own decisions? I don't see tactical nukes ever being used by NATO other than as an escalation step. Further I don't see the Russians using a pop gun with a flag that pops out and says "bang!" as a warning (so I see that particular escalation step being skipped). Far more likely for the Russians to use a small amount of missiles with large warheads as a in a limited first strike warning hitting multiple cities at once or release tactical nukes as a whole to their armed forces vs telling them to try one and see what happens next.
Euclid Here is the opposite point of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU
Here is the opposite point of view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU
Complete garbage. The Indians do not want to ruffle Russia's feathers because they have lucrative weapons production licenses for their Tanks and Jet Fighters from Russia.....thats #1. You can't trust what the Indians say in regards to this conflict.
#2 is Russia at one point wanted to join the NATO alliance and made overtures to that extent (not mentioned in the video). The Russian protestations on NATO Eastward expansion started in 2007 and were largely fabricated and raised by Mr. Putin himself saying a verbal promise was made and broken but having no evidence anywhere in writing of the promise plus he states the promise was made before he was even in power. Yet those that proceeded him in power can't tell anyone when exactly this happened.
Tabling the whole NATO expansion business which is a red herring argument. This conflict would still have happened because Russia did not want Ukraine to be oriented in anyway to the EU, nor did it want a full democracy on it's doorstep. Especially in a slavic country with past close ties to Russia (ie: they feel the same way about Serbia). So if Moscow could not put it's own stooge in Ukraine there was going to be conflict.
CMStPnP JayBee If Russia were to use a nuclear weapon on anybody, small or large, the Non-Proliferation Treaty will be ignored by most countries. So how does that work? Every country abandons NATO and goes it's own way and makes it's own decisions? I don't see tactical nukes ever being used by NATO other than as an escalation step. Further I don't see the Russians using a pop gun with a flag that pops out and says "bang!" as a warning (so I see that particular escalation step being skipped). Far more likely for the Russians to use a small amount of missiles with large warheads as a in a limited first strike warning hitting multiple cities at once or release tactical nukes as a whole to their armed forces vs telling them to try one and see what happens next.
JayBee If Russia were to use a nuclear weapon on anybody, small or large, the Non-Proliferation Treaty will be ignored by most countries.
In a manner of speaking they already have 'lit' their nuclear weapon - Chernobyl. They now occupy the territory around Chernobyl and are reported to have cut the electricty that powers the machienry that keeps the wreckage cool.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CMStPnPFar more likely for the Russians to use a small amount of missiles with large warheads as a in a limited first strike warning hitting multiple cities at once...
CMStPnP So how does that work? Every country abandons NATO and goes it's own way and makes it's own decisions? I don't see tactical nukes ever being used by NATO other than as an escalation step. Further I don't see the Russians using a pop gun with a flag that pops out and says "bang!" as a warning (so I see that particular escalation step being skipped). Far more likely for the Russians to use a small amount of missiles with large warheads as a in a limited first strike warning hitting multiple cities at once or release tactical nukes as a whole to their armed forces vs telling them to try one and see what happens next.
JayBeeBTW the Union of Concerned Scientists says that the US posses 1500 B61 bombs each having four selectable yields ranging from 0.3 kilotons to as much as 340 kilotons depending on the Model.
They are guessing at amounts. Those are dumb bombs, once upgraded to smart bombs they are classified as strategic not tactical. Regardless, I would not classify anything over 200kt as tactical either. And as I said before if there is anything that remains of the Tactical Nukes they are being phased out or eliminated down to zero is the goal........they are pretty useless. Advancements in technology on the convential explosives side along with precision guidance has surpased the utility of using the smaller nukes as dumb munitions. Putin is the one that came up with the use tatical nukes to de-escalate theory but not mentioned he also stated it would be done in conjunction with a limited strategic missile strike (which I thought against specific cities). It was never use tactical nukes alone.
I don't know how bombs are classified as Tatical Nukes which are typically limited in range and yield. The definition used to be limited to artillery shells, land to land short range rockets, back pack nukes, cruise missiles, etc.
The bombs you mention are problematic because a bomb has a range far beyond previous classifications of tactical nukes and over 200 kt is getting to be very large and would consume a LOT more than a local battlefield it detonated.
I didn't watch that video, but I personally wouldn't be too hard on India. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
They have an unfriendly neighbor and depend on Russian imports for a large slice of their defense needs [Edit: Make that two unfriendly neighbors, since I forgot all about Pakistan]. So they can't exactly come out and alienate Russia for their own sake since that relationship is helping keep China in check.
They're also dependent on the west both commercially and for a sizeable percentage of their defense purchases, so they also can't come out and say they support Russia.
So they're basically stuck in the middle, not able to really side with either since alienating one or the other could have dire consequences for them.
I'm not saying it's right for them to not take a stand. Just that it's easy to understand why they're keeping quiet at the UN about this.
A seven hour cease fire on this thread! Where are this joint's chiefs-of staff?
Rick
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
rixflixA seven hour cease fire on this thread! Where are this joint's chiefs-of staff? Rick
That is a longer ceasefire than has happened in Ukraine.
Euclid Developing news is that Poland will give Ukraine some used fighter jets in a deal where the U.S. replaces those jets with new ones for Poland. However, this is said to be a delicate move because Poland is not sure how far they can go down this road without Putin considering the plan to be an act of war against Russia. Coincidentally yesterday, Putin said that the sanctions alone are akin to an act of war against Russia.
Developing news is that Poland will give Ukraine some used fighter jets in a deal where the U.S. replaces those jets with new ones for Poland. However, this is said to be a delicate move because Poland is not sure how far they can go down this road without Putin considering the plan to be an act of war against Russia. Coincidentally yesterday, Putin said that the sanctions alone are akin to an act of war against Russia.
Euclid... Why not send the fighter jets to Ukraine? Who cares what Putin thinks of it?
Putin seems to think that the rest of the world existing is an act of war against Russia.
BaltACD Euclid ... Why not send the fighter jets to Ukraine? Who cares what Putin thinks of it? Putin seems to think that the rest of the world existing is an act of war against Russia.
Euclid ... Why not send the fighter jets to Ukraine? Who cares what Putin thinks of it?
EuclidWhy not send the fighter jets to Ukraine? Who cares what Putin thinks of it?
I'd think that there is likely more going on at the official level, than the press has been made aware of? (therefore we, as consumers of that press, are not fully informed)
CeASe fire? Unless I am mistaken the longest cease fire in the world is the 2 Koreas? Have never heard that they have signed a peace treaty?
CMStPnP I don't know how bombs are classified as Tatical Nukes which are typically limited in range and yield. The definition used to be limited to artillery shells, land to land short range rockets, back pack nukes, cruise missiles, etc. The bombs you mention are problematic because a bomb has a range far beyond previous classifications of tactical nukes and over 200 kt is getting to be very large and would consume a LOT more than a local battlefield it detonated.
Euclid Ukraine desperately needs the the jets that Poland is offering them. Why are we prohibiting the deal? Does it violate the terms of some agreement we have with NATO or terms that NATO has within its own doctrine? Why not send the fighter jets to Ukraine? Who cares what Putin thinks of it?
What Ukraine really wants is anything to get NATO or the US actively fighting Russia. The fact is that the US does not want that, unless or until Russia forces the issue.
Russia is now telling the world that the Ukraine has Bio-warfare and Chemical warfare labs supported by the US. The US CIA and DIA think this is a precurser to Russia using chemical weapons in Ukraine as a terror weapon against civilians like they did in Syria.
Reports on social media from within Russia are reporting that Russian peacekeeping troops are being withdrawn from Nagorno-Karabahk to send to Ukraine.
JayBee Russia is now telling the world that the Ukraine has Bio-warfare and Chemical warfare labs supported by the US. The US CIA and DIA think this is a precurser to Russia using chemical weapons in Ukraine as a terror weapon against civilians like they did in Syria.
blue streak 1CeASe fire? Unless I am mistaken the longest cease fire in the world is the 2 Koreas? Have never heard that they have signed a peace treaty?
I don't think the USA and the Seminole tribe have ever agreed to a Peace Treaty - and have been having a cease fire for the past century and a half.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html
Euclid It seems to me that the only way the war escalates is if Putin escalates it.
But providing the jets in the first place is not "escalation"?
Point being, we can sit in our armchairs and thump our chests all we want. For some obviously, there is a feel-good associated with that behavior. But for those actually in the front row, they have to be mindful of real world consequences.
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Euclid US undersecretary of state acknowledges there are biological warfare labs in Ukraine https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/10/nula-m10.html
Yep that is exactly the source that I thought you would quote. By their definition the CDC's labs conducting research into the spread of COVID, particularly by aerosols (aka sneezing) is bio-warfare.Notice how there is no link to the actual speech, which is available on the web.
I smell SPIN. As I read this, the lab had specimens of biologicals. It doesn't mean they are weaponizing them, they could be using them to develop defenses against them,
BaltACD blue streak 1 CeASe fire? Unless I am mistaken the longest cease fire in the world is the 2 Koreas? Have never heard that they have signed a peace treaty?
blue streak 1 CeASe fire? Unless I am mistaken the longest cease fire in the world is the 2 Koreas? Have never heard that they have signed a peace treaty?
Way out thoughts.
1. According to Putin his logic would say the Alaska sale to the US is not valid. Consequences? Anyone remember how close the US is to Russia?
2. If criticism continues will Putin dispatch assination teams? Especially critical news media and comedians?
3. Russian deaths. Remember how many men and women Stalin sent to the German fronts that did not make it home.
4. Will the bad operation of Russian forces cause improvements to command and control, logistics, planning, etc?
5. How long will Russian censorship last? Can some Russians receive sattelite broadcasts? what about sat phones?
6. Are some of the US businesses shutting down due to not being able to get products into Russia?
blue streak 1Way out thoughts. 1. According to Putin his logic would say the Alaska sale to the US is not valid. Consequences? Anyone remember how close the US is to Russia? 2. If criticism continues will Putin dispatch assination teams? Especially critical news media and comedians? 3. Russian deaths. Remember how many men and women Stalin sent to the German fronts that did not make it home. 4. Will the bad operation of Russian forces cause improvements to command and control, logistics, planning, etc? 5. How long will Russian censorship last? Can some Russians receive sattelite broadcasts? what about sat phones? 6. Are some of the US businesses shutting down due to not being able to get products into Russia?
How will Russian families respond as the sons, daughters, fathers and mothers that don't come home or come home in body bags.
Does Putin have the backing to kill the 25 Million Russians that Stalin did?
There are reports that the Russians have suffered about the same number of casulties in Ukraine in two weeks that caused their withdrawal from Afghanistan over a longer period of time.
Today's Wall Street Journal has a decent article about Ukraine's railways functioning in this sickening war. It's paywalled for sure.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-railroads-have-become-vital-cog-in-kyivs-war-effort-11647000001
The rails have evacuated 2 million women and children. Males 18-60 aren't supposed to leave. Here's your rifle.
Some reduced volume of freight is still moving as they try to keep some sort of an economy going.
blue streak 1 BaltACD blue streak 1 CeASe fire? Unless I am mistaken the longest cease fire in the world is the 2 Koreas? Have never heard that they have signed a peace treaty? BALT: You are absolitely correct. Just another internal non treaty. Wonder how many other US - Indian wars do not have a peace treaty?
When Queen Victoria signed the declaration of war on Russia in 1853, she did so in the name of "Victoria, Queen of Great Britain, Ireland, Berwick-upon-Tweed and the British Dominions beyond the sea." But Berwick was not mentioned in the Treaty of Paris that concluded the Crimean War in 1856, leaving the town technically still at war with Russia.
A peace treaty was only finally signed by a Russian diplomat and the the Mayor of Berwick in 1966. As the mayor said at the time: "You can tell the Russian people that they can now sleep peacefully in their beds".
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
I don't think it is clear what the so-called "biological labs" in Ukraine were doing, or how many such labs are involved. Most of the references I have seen denounce the story. Does anyone know the facts behind the purpose of these labs? I have seen one reference saying they were intended to research dangerous pathological viruses that could be used by terrorists. I don't know if anyone has claimed that the labs were used to manufacture biological weapons of war.
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