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The Wrong Paradigm Locked

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, July 9, 2020 11:24 AM

tree68

 

 
243129

So you are not a Trump supporter but you vote the party line.

 

Nope - best candidate.  Unfortunately, the pickings have been a little slim lately.  People really do think for themselves sometimes, you know.  

 

 
243129
Who in your opinion might that other guy be?

 

Dunno.  Haven't been a lot of Republicans making noises in that direction lately.    

I think the Democrats could field a better candidate, but I suspect they've discouraged those who have expressed an interest out of fear they wouldn't toe the party line.

 

 
243129
Ah the 'base mentality'.

Well, if you want to believe the MSM, that's your problem.

 

 

 

Were I a Trump supporter I wouldn't admit it either.

 

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Posted by jcburns on Thursday, July 9, 2020 11:24 AM

I'm confused, Larry. You say "people really do think for themselves sometimes " and then you cough up that "MSM" term that came straight out of right wing talking points, mostly on talk radio.

So...which is it?

And...are you willing to vote for the train fan from Delaware?

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, July 9, 2020 11:48 AM

Shadow the Cats owner
If you looked at Craigslist when the Riots were going on at full tilt there were all kinds of ads listed for Jobs for Protesters being paid for by Open Socitety Foundation aka the Soros Foundation.  Also just how in the heck can all these people arrested keep affording BAIL when most of them do not have JOBS.  Someone is paying their legal bills during these protests.

Busing in protesters has been pretty normal for both sides for years.  That's nothing new. 

And even if protestors are arrested - many are never charged or simply ROR'ed.  Jailing people is expensive - and not to mention the first amendment issues that can arise. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, July 9, 2020 12:28 PM

jcburns
And...are you willing to vote for the train fan from Delaware?

Are you sure he'd recognize a train if he saw one?

I consider the MSM (ie, CNN, MSNBC, etc) on the same level of Fox most of the time any more.  The day of objective reporting is long gone.  

Sorry I don't fit into any of your preconceived notions.  

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, July 9, 2020 12:40 PM

tree68
Are you sure he'd recognize a train if he saw one?

He rode Amtrak between his house and DC for years.  Didn't get the nickname "Amtrak Joe" for nothing.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, July 9, 2020 12:46 PM

zugmann
tree68
Are you sure he'd recognize a train if he saw one?

He rode Amtrak between his house and DC for years.  Didn't get the nickname "Amtrak Joe" for nothing.

#makeamtrakgreatagain

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by jcburns on Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:08 PM

That's what I was trying to tell you Larry.

Saying "I consider the MSM (ie, CNN, MSNBC, etc) on the same level of Fox most of the time any more. The day of objective reporting is long gone." does NOT make it so.

There is a ton of objective REPORTING being put out there every day by hardworking young (by our standards) people. They are playing it straight and you are (are you?) willfully ignoring it.

I feel for them, because they're doing the hard work and I feel for you, because by ignoring that work you're missing out on what keeps our country vital.

You're fitting pretty much tightly into my not-preconceived-but-developed from-reading-dozens-of-your-posts notion.

And yeah, I think Biden could teach you (or me!) a thing or two about Amtrak and the northeast corridor if he wasn't so busy, y'know, running for President.

So did I miss it? Are you voting for Biden? Trump? Jill Stein? Ralph Nader? John Anderson? Gus Hall? Rand Paul?

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:13 PM

SD70Dude
#makeamtrakgreatagain

We're gonna need a bigger hat. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:14 PM

jcburns
So did I miss it? Are you voting for Biden? Trump? Jill Stein? Ralph Nader? John Anderson? Gus Hall? Rand Paul?

Jorgensen looks better all the time.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:16 PM

jcburns

So did I miss it? Are you voting for Biden? Trump? Jill Stein? Ralph Nader? John Anderson? Gus Hall? Rand Paul?

Don't forget Lyndon LaRouche.  I'm sure he won't let a little thing like death hold him up!

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:24 PM

zugmann
SD70Dude
#makeamtrakgreatagain

We're gonna need a bigger hat. 

Wrap it around the rim of a 10 gallon hat!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by jcburns on Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:43 PM

Thanks for giving me a sense, Larry. Me, I'll be voting for Biden. Because, y'know, trains. 
...

...and Trump.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:48 PM

Psychot
i wonder if the people who are so up in arms about Soros are equally troubled by the likes of Sheldon Adelson and the Koch brothers?

I was just about to write exactly that. He's merely the progressives' version of those folks.

It's funny how people on the right claim to have all this insider knowlege of Soros. Most know as much about Soros as I do about Adelson. Which is to say very little. Most mega-rich guys are pretty private.

Probably 75% of what appears in right-wing media about Soros is false. For a variety of reasons, this man has been unfairly demonized; anti-semitism is definitely one factor. Its easy to trash someone who stays out of the public eye and is not out there defending himself. I'm a well-informed liberal, but I wouldnt know Soros if he walked into the room. Yet all the righties know ALL ABOUT George. Uh huh.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, July 9, 2020 2:18 PM

SD70Dude
Don't forget Lyndon LaRouche.  I'm sure he won't let a little thing like death hold him up!

That just means he'll be voting Democrat...

LarryWhistling
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There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by jcburns on Thursday, July 9, 2020 2:50 PM

DemocratIC, Larry. It's the Democratic party. The late LaRouche would be voting Democratic. Not "Democrat."

When you deliberately misname the party, it's one of those "tells" like tossing out Mainstream Media (or worse.) I say, hmm, where could he have picked that up...

...could it be...

right wing talk radio? Fox news commentators?

(And if not, are you claiming that you just came up with that on your own?)

I'm sure you're a smart man, Larry. Repeat after me, Democratic Party. The Democrats. You can do it. I have faith in your grammar school education. Show some respect.

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:04 PM

jcburns

Someone said online something I could not say better:

"Barack Obama was the president of the Harvard law review and one of the most brilliant presidents in history and Donald Trump paid someone to take his SAT test and racists worship him.

God Bless America."

When you say "elite" with a sneer and a smirk, do you mean: bright, intelligent?

 

 

This is a train site, right?

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:06 PM

n012944
jcburns

Someone said online something I could not say better:

"Barack Obama was the president of the Harvard law review and one of the most brilliant presidents in history and Donald Trump paid someone to take his SAT test and racists worship him.

God Bless America."

When you say "elite" with a sneer and a smirk, do you mean: bright, intelligent?

This is a train site, right?

His avatar has a train in it. 

Seems like pretty much anything goes on here until it gets reported......

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by jcburns on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:13 PM

Oh, sorry. Barack Obama, who boarded a train for Washington three days before his inauguration, was the president of the Harvard law review and one of the most brilliant presidents in history and Donald Trump paid someone to take his SAT test and racists worship him.

A photographer who covered the January 2009 trek from Philadelphia to Washington, reported the crowds that lined the route were "remarkably mixed in terms of age, in terms of gender, in terms of race. You would see people standing out in the more suburban, maybe wealthier communities just as much as you would see people standing out on the street or looking out from their back porch in some of the poor parts of Baltimore."

 

God bless America.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:14 PM

Euclid

 

 
Paul of Covington
 
Euclid
Throughout this pandemic experience, there has been speculation surrounding the issue of asymptomatic infection.  One aspect of this is the claim that people can contract the virus at one point, but do not develop any symptoms until sometime later, such as 1-3 weeks later.  During that time of being asymptomatic, the subject has no way of knowing they are infected unless it is discovered by testing. Generally, the consensus is that the virus can be spread to others during the period of being asymptomatic in an infected person.

 

   It seems you don't want to accept this idea, but many years ago, I was told by my doctor that mono takes about two weeks after infection for the symptoms to show up, and during that time it is very contagious.  I remember thinking at the time that that's a smart disea

 

I don't see why you think I don't accept that idea.

 

   Oh, I don't know.  Maybe when you use phrases like "...there has been speculation..." and "...the claim that..."

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:17 PM

SD70Dude

 

 
n012944
jcburns

Someone said online something I could not say better:

"Barack Obama was the president of the Harvard law review and one of the most brilliant presidents in history and Donald Trump paid someone to take his SAT test and racists worship him.

God Bless America."

When you say "elite" with a sneer and a smirk, do you mean: bright, intelligent?

This is a train site, right?

 

 

His avatar has a train in it. 

Seems like pretty much anything goes on here until it gets reported......

 

 

Yep, it a sad state on how this site has gone down in years.  I noticed that Mr train avatar has mentioned the word train in 2 of his 109 posts, and railroad in 1 other. (I am bored waiting on someone)Laugh

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:23 PM

   Does anyone wonder why TRAINS doesn't want political discussions here?

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Posted by jcburns on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:25 PM

So you're suggesting I change to...what is that, a snake avatar? I guess the PC logo is 'mating worms', so that's as close as I can get. I really enjoy reading comments on Trains' content and rail problems and issues...

...and then some guy tosses out a Hillary insult or a "MSM is in on it" theory or some sort of complete falsehood...wait, let me be clearer...a massive lie about the pandemic that we're all having to deal with. And I said to myself, y'know, this is stressful enough for everyone without unchallenged misinformation and conspiracy crap being mixed into these pages.

So I set out to avoid ad hominem attacks and yet stick to facts, which, as I say, are sacred things to me. They can be checked, reported, verified.

I wish you all good health and safe lives in the coming months. Please social distance and wear a mask. It's the grownup thing to do. And enjoy trains.

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:33 PM

jcburns

So you're suggesting I change to...what is that, a snake avatar? I guess the PC logo is 'mating worms', so that's as close as I can get. I really enjoy reading comments on Trains' content and rail problems and issues...

...and then some guy tosses out a Hillary insult or a "MSM is in on it" theory or some sort of complete falsehood...wait, let me be clearer...a massive lie about the pandemic that we're all having to deal with. And I said to myself, y'know, this is stressful enough for everyone without unchallenged misinformation and conspiracy crap being mixed into these pages.

So I set out to avoid ad hominem attacks and yet stick to facts, which, as I say, are sacred things to me. They can be checked, reported, verified.

I wish you all good health and safe lives in the coming months. Please social distance and wear a mask. It's the grownup thing to do. And enjoy trains.

 

 

It is a Dodge Viper logo....Generation 3 if you must know.

 

However I suggest you follow the forum rules...

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/264778.aspx

 

"No political discussions or signature messages. We know, railroads are sometimes affected by politics. However, we’ve found that political discussions almost always turn into arguments. We have a common thread of being interested in railroads. Don’t let that common bond be destroyed by political differences."

 

While Tree, Euclid, Charlie H, and many others are just as guilty in this thread as you, they at least have a history of talking about trains in this forum.  Like I said, less than 2% of your posts even have the word train in them.....

I am not a moderator, so I will just stay out of this thread.  It is threads like this however, why I tend to visit this site less and less.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:34 PM

This thread's now gone on for two months without really having anything to do with railroads.  I have to say, I am quite impressed that the moderators have backed off, compared to some of the other goings on over the past year or two. 

If any of them read this, I would humbly suggest that this thread be left up as a sort of 'catch all' for non-railroad or political stuff, with a big "DANGER:  CONTAINS POLITICS" tagline added to the thread title. 

Those who do not wish to see its content could then easily avoid this thread, and the regular politically-minded forum participants would have a place to rant and vent.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by jcburns on Thursday, July 9, 2020 3:43 PM

I understand your point (and thanks for explaining your Avatar.)

I read the rules on day one back in 2012.

It's one of those things where "polite conversation", say at the clubhouse at the TPC, allows some guy to get up and make a bunch of statements in "polite company" that might be subtly or not so subtly misogynistic or racist and because there's a history and tradition of hey, we're all fellow old white guys, he's probably had one too many, just let it go.

And I usually do let it go. But we're in some tough times, and I sure don't want my silence to be equated with assent. I see my neighbors struggling. They've lost jobs. The planet's trying to get through a global pandemic that should not at all be political, but somehow it has become so.

And in that context, I think I just got a little tired of finding a place I could count on interesting stuff about trains filled with right wing conspiratoral nonsense just because...what, they've paid their dues by discussing the railroad business a greater percentage of the time?

I'm sorry. I don't think that's how it works. Facts are facts. Reporting is reporting. And if you want to put it on me instead of the "greater percentage" guys, go right ahead. We're in some stressful times.

Be safe out there.

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, July 9, 2020 4:03 PM

Paul of Covington
 
Euclid

 

 
Paul of Covington
 
Euclid
Throughout this pandemic experience, there has been speculation surrounding the issue of asymptomatic infection.  One aspect of this is the claim that people can contract the virus at one point, but do not develop any symptoms until sometime later, such as 1-3 weeks later.  During that time of being asymptomatic, the subject has no way of knowing they are infected unless it is discovered by testing. Generally, the consensus is that the virus can be spread to others during the period of being asymptomatic in an infected person.

 

   It seems you don't want to accept this idea, but many years ago, I was told by my doctor that mono takes about two weeks after infection for the symptoms to show up, and during that time it is very contagious.  I remember thinking at the time that that's a smart disea

 

I don't see why you think I don't accept that idea.

 

 

 

   Oh, I don't know.  Maybe when you use phrases like "...there has been speculation..." and "...the claim that..."

 

I call it speculation because that is what it is.  Even today, experts say that the virus is not entirely understood.  Even the WHO announced a few weeks ago that the belief that the virus can spread from infected people in the asymptamatic phase is nearly complely untrue. They said the possiblity was very near zero.  Then about four days later, they reversed and said they did not mean to say what they said.  Then they went on to clarify with an unbelievably complicated explanation of why it sounded like they said the virus is almost imposssible to spread from people having the virus in the asymptomatic state. They finished the explanation by saying that the virus can spread about 40% of the time from infected people in the asymptomatic state.  But it was unclear to me how they apply that 40%.  I intended nothing sinister by refering to this general understanding of asymptomatic spread as speculative.  I thought it was a fair choice of words.  And it also had nothing to do with the point I was making about people being infected by virus in early phase of the pandemic, and being counted as a new case when discovered by testing today.   

 

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Posted by Psychot on Thursday, July 9, 2020 8:42 PM

jcburns

Thanks for your insights into Hungary, Psychot. Some of it does sound similar to what I read about the government in Poland...hope this antidemocratic trend is something that will go the other way with enough people standing up for democracy and the rule of law.

 

Thanks! There are indeed many similarities between the current situations in Hungary and Poland. The salient difference is that Orban is assiduously cozying up to the Russians. The Polish government is not because - as you probably know - any Polish government that tried such a move, left or right-wing, would be drummed out on its ear.

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Posted by Psychot on Thursday, July 9, 2020 8:56 PM

Lithonia Operator

 

 
Psychot
i wonder if the people who are so up in arms about Soros are equally troubled by the likes of Sheldon Adelson and the Koch brothers?

 

I was just about to write exactly that. He's merely the progressives' version of those folks.

It's funny how people on the right claim to have all this insider knowlege of Soros. Most know as much about Soros as I do about Adelson. Which is to say very little. Most mega-rich guys are pretty private.

Probably 75% of what appears in right-wing media about Soros is false. For a variety of reasons, this man has been unfairly demonized; anti-semitism is definitely one factor. Its easy to trash someone who stays out of the public eye and is not out there defending himself. I'm a well-informed liberal, but I wouldnt know Soros if he walked into the room. Yet all the righties know ALL ABOUT George. Uh huh.

 

After 5 years of watching the Hungarian government demonize Soros at every turn, I was somewhat surprised to come back to the U.S. and see much the same thing going on here. Granted, I haven't seen any campaign posters here featuring Soros as the villain (you can't throw a rock in Hungary without hitting one), but as we've seen reflected in this very forum, the U.S. right-wing media is working overtime to make him the bogeyman. I guess he's an easy target because he's Jewish, pretty far to the left, unbelievably wealthy, and did I mention Jewish...

The fact is, any objective observer who does their research will find that he's done a lot of good things to promote democracy in Central and Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, his efforts sometimes backfire: most of the central figures in the current Hungarian government received their educations thanks to his scholarships. They reward Soros by using him as a political punching bag.

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Posted by Psychot on Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:12 PM

tree68

 

 
Psychot
Yes, there are indeed shades of grey. You'd do well to bear that in mind when you attempt to portray everyone who can't stand Trump as an unhinged far-left obsessive.

 

Your perception.  I know people who couldn't stand Trump before he got elected.  They are far from unhinged far-left obsessives. 

 

I can't stand Hillary Clinton - does that make me an unhinged far-right obsessive - or just someone who can't stand her?

 

Fair enough. I inferred my conclusion from multiple posts in which you appeared to imply that criticism of Trump is solely motivated by partisan politics.

I held my nose and voted for Hillary because, as a Howard Stern listener, I felt I had a pretty good handle on Trump (he appeared on Stern's show on a regular basis) and why he wasn't suited to be POTUS. Those early conclusions have been borne out in spades over the past 3.5 years. He's exactly who I thought he was.

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Posted by Gramp on Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:25 PM

Euclid, returning to your opening post, my niece is a pulmonary nurse practitioner at a hospital in San Antonio that has an area treating the most serious Covid cases from the region.  Instead of using ventilators, they are using a machine where a person's blood is cycled through it to oxygenate the blood, then returns the blood to the person's body.  The process takes only a few minutes.

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