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The Wrong Paradigm Locked

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:09 PM

I'm not a fan of any of the name calling. As I said on the other post, many of the reporters who work for Fox News do what can be a difficult job in the trenches, just like their compatriots at CNN, MSNBC, AP, Reuters, and the rest.

York1, I'm willing to judge you on your empathy and humanity moving forward. Hope you will see people's struggles and stand up for change that is humane, inclusive, and as a nice byproduct, helps to regain our nation's respect in a very small world.

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:14 PM

Take all the studies together. Factor in what the CDC has said. I know it's difficult, because the "current WH occupant" has been literally restricting the access of valuable public health information and advice to the public at large.

The health community is doing the kind of hard work that they did during AIDS, SARS, Swine Flu, even viruses before that. It takes time. The papers need to be evaluated not by you or by news commentators, but by experts.

There's a bunch of caveats in this report if you read through the whole thing.

But personally, I won't be taking medical advice from the "current WH occupant."

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Posted by York1 on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:16 PM

jcburns
The way it's shaping up though I'm looking forward in November to electing a train-loving Delawarian white guy to replace the incumbent

 

I have no doubt you are correct there.

I wonder if your beloved cable news 'reporters' will hold his feet to the fire like they did to President Obama President Trump?

I wonder if they will ask him about this:

 

York1 John       

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:17 PM

York1
The current WH occupant has been widely criticized for his advocacy of the drug hydroxychloroquine.  Health organizations say it doesn't work on covid19.

Becuase he made those claims before the research has been done?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:18 PM

York1
I wonder if your beloved cable news 'reporters' will hold his feet to the fire like they did to President Obama President Trump?

Remember that time Obama wore a brown suit? 

I don't care what party you are, this adminsitration has been given every free pass in the world. I can't even begin to imagine the outrage that would have existed if the same claims were made with previous presidents.  Whomever manages this is doing a brilliant job - I'll give them that. 

Maybe the whole twitter and setting expectations so low is what the democrats should try to go with next time. I mean, can't be worse than their previous couple strategies.   "What the President meant to say...."

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:33 PM

Well, the Ukraine stuff has been asked and answered, just like Hillary Clinton's emails and Benghazi. These things get credibly refuted and some folks will not believe that it has, because in part, they have been trained to believe that cable news reporters have an agenda.

And you wanted some help on empathy? "your beloved cable news reporters"—the kids these days would call it snarkiness, if nothing else. Just drop the attitude. Obama was questioned by the press EXTENSIVELY and his "feet were held to the fire" if, (again a really loaded phrase there), you mean he was asked complex, repeated questions that examined his decisions closely.

Trump's approach appears (to me) to be: insult the questioner, make derogatory comments about the questioner's employer, blame anyone but himself, and ultimately, do not stand up and answer the question.

Obama explicitly took responsibility for a lot that happened on his watch. Even George W. Bush did a fair amount of that. Hell, Reagan and Carter did! Have you EVER heard the current President acknowlege his own error or take direct responsibility for his staff's error?

Even once?! What kind of guy will do anything but apologize?

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Posted by York1 on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:44 PM

jcburns
Just drop the attitude.

 

I will if you will.  How's that for middle school snarkiness?

York1 John       

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:45 PM

The world is a more dangerous place for US inhabitants both inside and outside the borders of the country than it was before January 20, 2017.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:47 PM

100% middle school snarkiness. I've made every attempt to treat you with respect here even as I take issue with some of what you've posted. I sure hope that registers with you.

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Posted by York1 on Monday, July 6, 2020 4:00 PM

jcburns

100% middle school snarkiness. I've made every attempt to treat you with respect here even as I take issue with some of what you've posted. I sure hope that registers with you.

 

 

Every attempt to treat me with respect?  

I didn't say you were unempathetic.  You said that about me.

I didn't say you had no concern for your fellow man.  You said that about me.

 

Here's how I ended last night:

York1
jcburns, I want to let you know that I appreciate your views even if I disagree with them.  I hope I have not angered you. We can disagree and still appreciate each other's views.

 

Here's how you answered me:

jcburns
We can certainly disagree on our opinions. I get nervous when I see people disagreeing on observable facts.

 

I'd hate to see what you would say about me if you didn't treat me with respect.

What was that you were saying about snarkiness?

York1 John       

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 4:03 PM

So...no, it's not registering with you. Got it. Proceed!

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Posted by York1 on Monday, July 6, 2020 4:05 PM

jcburns

So...no, it's not registering with you. Got it. Proceed!

 

 

There's that snarkiness again!

 

Give me something you want me to register.  You never know, I might be open to it.

So far, all you've given me is insults.

York1 John       

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 4:10 PM

"So far, all you've given me is insults." So in all the paragraph after paragraph I've written the past few days, your conclusion is...THIS?

Try again. As an exercise, read through the stuff that you DON'T see as about you. About people in the world worse off than you. About our place as a nation in this world. Go through that one more time.

Yikes. No wonder you don't trust what you term the "MSM."

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Posted by York1 on Monday, July 6, 2020 4:17 PM

This is great!  You complain that you have treated me with respect and I have not treated you with respect.

I gave examples.

This is your answer?

jcburns
As an exercise, read through the stuff that you DON'T see as about you.

 

In other words, "I treated you with respect by insulting you, but skip that.  Look what I wrote about others."

 

By the way, if you look back through this thread, you'll see I haven't once called anyone or anything the "MSM".

I will give you this -- you're very entertaining.

I'm going to give you the last word before the moderators close this thread.

York1 John       

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 4:29 PM

So that's a "no" on going back through and reading about other people's lives and struggles? Seems unempathetic. "I'm going to give you the last word before the moderators close this thread."  Seems like a very self-aggrandizing statement. You're in charge of who gets the last word? Hmm.

 

still hope you reread the stuff you're not taking as a personal insult. Might be too much to hope for.

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Posted by NKP guy on Monday, July 6, 2020 6:10 PM

BaltACD
The world is a more dangerous place for US inhabitants both inside and outside the borders of the country than it was before January 20, 2017.

   Perfectly put.

   My suggestion for the Democratic campaign slogan in 2020:   Had Enough?

   I can't help but recall the telegram that was sent by some citizen to Herbert Hoover just before the 1932 election:  "Vote for Roosevelt and make it unanimous."

 

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, July 6, 2020 6:35 PM

NKP guy

   My suggestion for the Democratic campaign slogan in 2020:   Had Enough?

Tired of "winning"?  Vote Biden 2020

#makeamtrakgreatagain

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 6, 2020 6:42 PM

Trump's 'throw away' line in the 2016 campaign was 'What do you have to lose.'  Now we know what we had to lose - The United States of America!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 6, 2020 6:49 PM

BaltACD

Trump's 'throw away' line in the 2016 campaign was 'What do you have to lose.'  Now we know what we had to lose - The United States of America!

Curiously, there are a good number who feel that's what will happen if Biden wins.  If you need examples, look at the states and cities run by the Dems...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 7:50 PM

Larry, what do you think is being lost in cities and states run by Democrats?

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Posted by Gramp on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:14 PM

The Dems could not accept that they put up a lousy candidate in '16, and lost the election fair and square. Instead of using self-reflection and determining something sound they could offer the American public, they created hoax after hoax to try to bring Trump down. Now they're using a man with dementia as a puppet candidate to try to somehow mask their ugly slide to the left. Cue the Lord's Prayer. My two cents. One for the postcard, one for the stamp, cancelled RPO. 

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:30 PM

A "lousy candidate" got more than 2.9 million votes more than Trump. I hear you think that the reporting on criminal acts by the President were "hoaxes." Why do you use that word? Because he did. He was impeached for real crimes. The other crimes he has committed are being kept from prosecution by AG Barr's theory is that you can't charge a sitting President. (Nowhere in the Constitution.) And then (again parroting the Trump campaign rumor machine) you try to assert Biden has dementia. THAT is an ugly slide to perpetuate that. The man was Vice President. He's smart, but most importantly he cares about human beings! He has compassion, empathy. And he likes trains. Shame on you for perpetuating propoganda.

i hear you loud and clear: you think a shift to the left is "ugly." What I see on the left is a sense that working people have been screwed by billionaire owners...who say poor people should have to fight for health care, like the President wants the states to fight over PPE.

If that's the line, I'll proudly stand on the left with the compassionate folks.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:36 PM

Trump has only wanted the celebrity of the Presidency - he has NEVER wanted the JOB of the Presidency.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:40 PM

Gramp

The Dems could not accept that they put up a lousy candidate in '16, and lost the election fair and square. Instead of using self-reflection and determining something sound they could offer the American public, they created hoax after hoax to try to bring Trump down. Now they're using a man with dementia as a puppet candidate to try to somehow mask their ugly slide to the left. Cue the Lord's Prayer. My two cents. One for the postcard, one for the stamp, cancelled RPO. 

If that's what they did, they learned from the Republicans during Mr. Clinton's and Obama's terms in power. 

RE:  Dementia, were I a Republican strategist I would be very cautious about playing that card.  Trump slurs his speech regularly and had trouble picking up a glass of water.  Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in that "very big brain". 

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 6, 2020 9:05 PM

jcburns

Larry, what do you think is being lost in cities and states run by Democrats?

In the case of NY, people. I'm surprised PA can't make a fortune on speeding tickets to people fleeing the state.  In the face of a $6 BILLION budget deficit, the governor gives himself a $70,000 a year raise.  After the state lost almost a billion it invested in a failed industry in Buffalo.  It is no secret that nothing happens in NY unless the emperor says so.  Cuomo set up a commission to study corruption, the closed it down when they got a little too close.  Cuomo makes Boss Tweed and Tamany Hall look like a boys club.

Cuomo is one of the petit tyrants that have emerged during the panicdemic.  They gained the ability to rule by fiat under states of emergency, and they are reluctant to give up that absolute authority.

Most of the state north of Westchester County would like to cut NYC off and let it float out to sea.  And take Cuomo with it.  They're the ones who elected him.  It's unfortunate that he's still got two years left of his current term.

Good ol' Chicago - strictest gun laws in the country, and it leads the country in murders.  If you go to the south side, wear body armor.

Last time I lived in MI, I believe it had a Republican governor.  I could be wrong.  I still have a fair number of friends there, though, and they don't have a very high opinion of Whitmer.  Vast areas of the city of Detroit are composed of empty lots.  

I'm not sure I can quantify what's being lost in Dem controlled areas, unless it's hope.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 9:35 PM

Thanks for your response, Larry, although it's loaded with a lot of that namecalling. 

 

Most of my friends in Michigan—in Detroit, in Grosse Pointe, in Lansing, in Traverse City, in the Upper Peninsula—tell me that Gretchen Whitmer is doing a great job of sticking with the science under tough circumstances. The previous Republican governor, Rick Snyder, tried that little deal with Flint that gave its citizens water with high lead levels for years. (He still may be prosecuted for that crime.)

Sounds like you have a problem with governors requiring severe measures for the public health. Or even not so severe ones, like wearing a mask. Well, especially when the federal government doesn't provide leadership, it falls on the governors to do it. NY Governor Cuomo's policies have been VERY similar to Ohio governor Mike DeWine, a Republican. BOTH are given high marks in the pandemic.

I'm originally from Ohio. I'm not a Republican. But I give DeWine high marks for taking the pandemic seriously and making a difference.

But I hear you. The people I talk to in upstate NY and in the five boroughs say that they made it through a bad situation thanks to the governor. But you don't like him personally (or maybe you just don't like his party.) Me, I'm not a fan or him or his brother personally, but he did buckle down and get New Yorkers aware of the challenge, and it sounds like maybe so far so good?

The "tammany hall" stuff you lay on him—isn't that the name that gets pulled out for every governor they've had, Rockefeller, Wagner, Spitzer, Pataki--they ALL get that "tammany hall corrumption" thing called out early and often, in my experience...?

You can paint him as an emperor, but isn't that pretty much how NYState's system was set up under (let me check) Republican governors?

Kentucky had a corrupt republican governor working hand in hand with McConnell and wife Elaine Chao to get a Russian-owned firm to take over a plant in Ashland, KY. The people of the commonwealth voted him out, but not before he pardoned 428 people 3 days before leaving office. You know, convicted murderers, rapists, and one murderer who donated $20,000 to his campaign.

Funny you should mention hope...that's one thing that comes up again and again in KY now that there's been a change. "Now there's hope."

Thanks for your thoughts. My hope is that in November, once the corrupt "current occupant" has left the building, we can get back to being the UNITED States. 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 6, 2020 9:46 PM

tree68
Last time I lived in MI, I believe it had a Republican governor.  I could be wrong.  I still have a fair number of friends there, though, and they don't have a very high opinion of Whitmer.  Vast areas of the city of Detroit are composed of empty lots.  

I am failing to see how the loss of the auto industry (due to the absolute crap the manufacturers were designing and putting out in the 70s, 80s and 90s - all while laughing about those funny names like Toyota and Honda) is the blame of the current governor.  Big industry is gone, while it sucks, many places in the country never had that big industry to lose.  What do you do? 

One of our largest empoyers historically made TV tubes.  Can't really blame the mayor for that one. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Gramp on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:04 PM

jcburns, Back in the 80's when I had CSpan on cable, I would listen to politicians' speeches.  And TV news reports of those speeches.  Much of the time, what I saw and heard was decidedly different than what was reported.  I don't know if you've experienced being with people who are developing dementia.  I don't need to follow political spin machines.  I have listened to Biden speak.  I'm not talking about his gaffs.  He's famous for them.  Listen to him if/when he speaks.

In a presidential election, electoral votes are what counts.  Had popular votes been what counted in '16, Trump would have run his campaign differently to reflect that.  Your emphasizing the popular vote speaks to what I said about the Dems not accepting they were defeated.  

I'll stop now, cause this is all far from railroads.

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:15 PM

I think stopping is a good idea. The verbal struggles of the current president exceed those of Joe Biden by a very large measure. Are you watching Biden talk to victims of shootings? Sitting in a church, listening respectfully?

Wow.

Yes, I was glad to see the Supreme Court today take the first step down (what may be a very long) path that invalidates the Electoral College, which was developed (among other reasons) to assure that those in power were white men, landowners.

I'll be delighted to see that go.

But imagine. 2.9 MILLION people. And we could have had a President who knew what to do when a global pandemic struck, instead of tossing away valuable planning from his predecessor.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:16 PM

jcburns
we can get back to being the UNITED States. 

We'd be there now if it weren't for the concerted effort to get the current POTUS out off office.  

And I put it that way because we could have elected a cross between Walter Cronkite and Fred Rogers (and I'm not comparing, so don't start) as a Republican in 2016 and the effort to remove the POTUS would have had the same head of steam.  Trump certainly gives the pundits a lot of material to work with - but when was the last time you heard anything from the MSM that was good about him?  He has done some good things - but you'll never hear that from them.  

The Dem's platform for the 2020 election is "get Trump out of office."  Has been since the day of the election.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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