Bruce KellyI'm told the Cocolalla to W Algoma second main will be laid this spring
Thank you for your responses. No apology necessary; winter and other issues often get in the way of posting here ....
I surmised that the track laying would be deferred to construction season, sounds like Minnesota .
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
I'm told the Cocolalla to W Algoma second main will be laid this spring.
Mike, my apologies for not responding sooner. Lake Cocolalla (or Cocolalla Lake, depending on which map you reference) is only 30 miles northeast of me, but I haven't been by there since the end of October. At that time, the general grading along the highway side of the existing single main appeared to be done. But nothing more.
Between the heavy rush of traffic going into November and December and then the winter conditions since then, I have my doubts whether the second main could have been laid by now. One source tells me there was no second main there as of a few weeks ago. And if ATCS can be trusted, it's still showing movements between Cocolalla and West Algoma on single track, with signal aspects and switch positions changing as trains come and go.
Surprised that we haven't heard from Bruce Kelly on my last post ...
At any rate, back to the news. BNSF has published its 2019 Capital Plan summary (that is, no details on 'expansion and efficiency' projects); hopefully more details will emerge.
They have also announced two new 'certified sites' in Galesburg, IL and Clovis, NM on the Southern Transcon where new online business is being encouraged. Doesn't sound like PSR to me .....
Some 2018 project completions have come to light via Progressive Railroading. New trackage near Belen, NM and Amarillo, TX (southern) and Mt. Pleasant, WA (northern) was brought online. The latter I was not aware of, even more surprising because any changes along the Columbia River ROW are 'environmentally challenging' and very time consuming.
MikeF90BNSF has apparently received permission to complete about 2.3 miles of second main track between CP Cocolalla and CP West Algoma on the Kootenai River sub (Northern transcon, south of Sandpoint, ID). Locals report grading is in progress. Estimated completion is Dec 2018.
Locals report grading is in progress. Estimated completion is Dec 2018.
Happy New Year!
Any locals care to report on the status of this project near Cocolalla Lake? TIA.... ................................................................................................................................. ................................................................................................................................. ...................................................... crickets .............................................................
MidlandMikeIs this the most difficult section for double tracking that I believe may have been referred to in a previous post?
IIRC the main difficulty has been the 'environmental sensitivity' of anything related to the lake and tributary streams. At one time BNSF wanted a bridge over the NE corner of the lake to improve speeds but this met with some pushback. Likewise the highway bubbas wanted to widen US95 using railroad ROW (good luck with that).
There are some other difficult and speed restricted areas to the west and east; BNSF has announced that signaling improvements for sidings between Sandpoint and Whitefish will be worked starting with the latest budget. The terrain along the Kootenai River is very scenic but extremely challenging to improve a railroad there.
I see this proposed section is on a slope betwen a lake and US Route 95. Is this the most difficult section for double tracking that I believe may have been referred to in a previous post?
BNSF has apparently received permission to complete about 2.3 miles of second main track between CP Cocolalla and CP West Algoma on the Kootenai River sub (Northern transcon, south of Sandpoint, ID).
Initial permit application is here: https://www.deq.idaho.gov/media/60181411/westmond-creek-unnamed-tribs-cocolalla-lake-bnsf-railway-401-certification-application-0418.pdf
Locals report grading is in progress. Estimation completion is Dec 2018.
Interpretive Dilemma
The TRAINS Newswire of March 28, 2018 made reference to the BNSF press release of March 27 about capital expenditures in the State of California, both saying: “On the Needles subdivision, BNSF will begin the multi-year construction of a third main track between West Needles and Ibis. Capacity through the city of Needles will also be expanded by adding approximately four miles of quadruple main track to the existing triple track.”
About that latter Needles idea itself that press release talked about ADDING four-tracks. Wow! What a wide set of tracks, seven altogether! However, did BNSF only mean adding a single fourth track instead of four more tracks?
A Google aerial suggests it is only adding one more track by the Amtrak stop:
https://goo.gl/maps/d1uuguhv7nt
It was desirable to get feet on the ground out that way, and K.P. did just that Friday, March 30, 2018 with a camera in hand in behalf of the forum.
Is it a Trick in Needles, CA?
For all practical purposes there are ALREADY four tracks from CP NEEDLES east for about four miles! The problem is the northernmost present fourth track has yard tracks connecting to it. What BNSF may (“may”) be thinking is laying kind of a signaled fifth track at each end of the yard or somewhere in between so that the fourth track is completely isolated from yard tracks and their un-signaled movements.
What is by the Downtown Depot?
Just west of the depot, or Amtrak stop, are multiple assumedly what are called the westbound control signal (WBCS) heads on cantilever structures, but the CP at M.P. 578.4 is NOT a universal crossovers arrangement, at best only half of one.
The above photo shows the three tracks that presently go through the freeway bridge opening, but those tracks cannot be increased unless the freeway overpass sloping was altered. The press release seemed to suggest that NO such alteration is in the cards.
Aerials show a further east north fourth track alignment with switches to yard tracks (below photo top background).
No sequence of work was suggested by the press release, but this forrrrumist got the distinct impression that at least three years were involved. The immediately least costly would appear to be a quick rearranging of that fourth track at the west end of the yard area. Then, progressively head west, with possibly a new CP being built in the Java area midway on the way to CP IBIS. CP IBIS is at M.P 592.3. But, since there presently does not appear to be an official press release on the order of construction, we will just have to wait and see how things develop.
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Keep an eye on the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” thread, which will have an important ‘starry, outer space’ perspective …
200 inch telescope at the Mt. Palomar Observatory near Oceanside, CA
… about posts to come.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/03/28-bnsf-to-lay-quadruple-track-through-california-town
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BNSF has announced its 2018 CAPEX plans for California, which highlight a multiyear project adding a third MT on the southern transcon from West Needles to Ibis, and a fourth (!) MT eastward through the city of Needles.
More in the area of 'railfan rumor' reported on another forum, an attendee at a presentation given by a BNSF executive stated that the Cajon sub triple tracking project (Summit to Barstow, ~50 miles) also would restart this year. To be thrifty spenders, I speculate that they will build two ten-mile segments of third main first.
Both of these projects may be impacted by the Trump administrations plans to increase tariffs on Chinese goods, but we'll see.
Hello KP and other railfans,.
I recently commented asking if anybody has seen any 10,000 feet trains on BNSF in Washington. Well I found something interesting the other day from the Youtube Channel of The Northwest Seaport Alliance that dates back to November 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fo_Fdv6CkA.
According to the video back in November 2017, they started loading 10,000 foot intermodal trains between Tacoma and Chicago and this will be daily occurrence. I see a lot of K'Line containers so that may be Union Pacific in this case, but BNSF has extensive contributions to the Port of Tacoma and since I now know they added 9,800 foot siding on BNSF's Falbridge Sub in the Columbia Gorge, these long trains may mean it is for them as well.
Has anybody seen any 10,000 foot trains in the past five months along BNSF's Northern Transcon?
Bruce Kelly<snip>There will still be several single track bottlenecks east and west of there, not just the ordinary gaps between sidings where track speed is high enough to make up for the single-lane flow ....
IIRC last year Bruce reported some possible prep work for a new bridge near Lakeside Jct (west of Spokane). Perhaps when the weather warms up someone will revisit.
Can't remember if posted elsewhere, but BNSF announced some planned signaling improvements RR east of Sandpoint. Not a second main, but it will speed up movements at sidings.
ccltrains With all the permitting and NIMBY activity on BNSF double tracking one has to wonder if the UP and CP had to jump through similar hoops we could still waiting for the golden spike ceremony.
With all the permitting and NIMBY activity on BNSF double tracking one has to wonder if the UP and CP had to jump through similar hoops we could still waiting for the golden spike ceremony.
Once in a great, great while, NIMBY's could help.
Johnny
Last single track bottleneck on the Funnel...yes. There will still be several single track bottlenecks east and west of there, not just the ordinary gaps between sidings where track speed is high enough to make up for the single-lane flow, but places like the slow, twisting coulee between Connell and Hatton, WA, roughly ten miles with two-dozen curves, half of them 6-degrees, on a grade that reaches 0.91%.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.713385,-118.8503536,17721m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
It saw some preliminary grade work for a second main done several years ago but nothing more. Early on, BNSF was considering a new alignment on a higher, straighter elevation skirting the ridgetops, similar to what it did at Abo Canyon, but that plan was apparently canned.
After the presently planned projects are done, will the Lake Cocolalla section be the last single track bottleneck ?
Adding a second main between Irvin and Otis Orchards, WA, was officially announced earlier this year. This will require a second bridge over the Spokane River. In the permitting process now; BNSF says it would like to begin construction next year.
Adding a second main between Cocolalla and West Algoma, ID, might seem like a snap, just a couple miles of track. But it could face almost as much environmental resistance as the Lake Pend Oreille bridge because it would be right along the shoreline of Lake Cocolalla (or Cocolalla Lake, depending on which map you look at), and very close to U.S. 95 in most spots. There was once talk of relocating the highway onto higher ground away from the railroad and the lake, but that would entangle a lot of private land and existing roads and homes on the hillsides.
Now that BNSF is starting the process to twin the Pend Oreille bridge, will they double track the rest of the "funnel"?
The Trains Newswire has alerted us to a new TIGER project along the northern transcon: "Bridging the Valley: Barker Road Grade Separation Project, City of Spokane Valley, Washington, $9,020,149 – to replace an existing at-grade crossing at Barker Road with an overpass, close a second at-grade crossing at Flora Road, and replace the intersection of Barker Road and Trent Avenue with a roundabout."
Barker Road is just west of the end of 2MT; next step, build a new bridge over the Spokane River!
K. P. HarrierPerhaps my search was influenced by Union Pacific’s new Santa Teresa, NM fueling facility. That place has seven fueling tracks with pads on each end of the couple of miles long fueling facility.
If one believes the Google Earth ruler, the racks at each end are about 10,000 feet apart. Gee, wonder where they came up with that number?
Replies
Shadow the Cats owner (3-9):
I see what you were referring to, power OFF (away from) trains in for fueling. My search of the Amarillo, TX area was for fueling pads to fuel engines ON the trains.
Perhaps my search was influenced by Union Pacific’s new Santa Teresa, NM fueling facility. That place has seven fueling tracks with pads on each end of the couple of miles long fueling facility.
The fuel storage tanks there are full sized ones …
Both photos April 1, 2016
… unlike some smaller ones on the BNSF southern Transcon as seen on aerials.
Thus, facilities such as at Winslow, AZ and Belen, NM seem to be crew relief pads.
Deggesty (3-9):
Now that makes sense.
Did you know I have a red tail? (Just kidding …)
I did entertain visiting New Mexico this weekend, but my wife will be out of town for nearly a week taking a class for her work, so the New Mexico idea soon disappeared.
The TRAINS newswire story did mention that the new Main 1 project in New Mexico will be operational within a year, so maybe this summer visible progress would make a visit worthwhile.
Bruce Kelly (3-9):
Very good reply and quite informative! Thanks.
samfp1943 (3-9):
60 trains a day through the Mulvane, KS area gives us a better picture of that area.
Please thank your wife for her presence of mind to ask that RFM the train count. What is RFM? Some type of manager I suppose …
K.P.
billio MikeF90 billio That indeed pinpoints the Alva stretch missing the second track. To the north (top of the map), you can make out the embankment and preliminary grading for that second track. Probably worth mentioning is that this segment is roughly comparable to adding the second span across the Pecos River at Ft. Sumner, MN, with one key difference: the daily train count at Alva, so I've read, runs 40-50 per day, whereas at Ft. Sumner, 80, and maybe up to 100 trains on a busy day. That's an astonishing amount of traffic that splits off at Avard and possibly Amarillo and Clovis. The Memphis IM terminal has been upgraded recently; what other endpoints are getting this traffic? TIA! Mini transcon Google map: http://goo.gl/maps/91eb6 When you ask, "what other endpoints are getting this traffic?" you do not specify from which of the three junctions -- Clovis, Amarillo and Avard -- you meant, so I'll take a brief shot at all of 'em. From Clovis and Amarillo, BNSF offers service to Dallas-Ft. Worth and Houston. From Avard, BNSF service extands to Tulsa, Memphis, Birmingham and (through service on other rails) Atlanta, Charlotte and Jacksonville. Knowledgeable BNSF'ers are cordially invited to add and correct. --billio
MikeF90 billio That indeed pinpoints the Alva stretch missing the second track. To the north (top of the map), you can make out the embankment and preliminary grading for that second track. Probably worth mentioning is that this segment is roughly comparable to adding the second span across the Pecos River at Ft. Sumner, MN, with one key difference: the daily train count at Alva, so I've read, runs 40-50 per day, whereas at Ft. Sumner, 80, and maybe up to 100 trains on a busy day. That's an astonishing amount of traffic that splits off at Avard and possibly Amarillo and Clovis. The Memphis IM terminal has been upgraded recently; what other endpoints are getting this traffic? TIA! Mini transcon Google map: http://goo.gl/maps/91eb6
billio That indeed pinpoints the Alva stretch missing the second track. To the north (top of the map), you can make out the embankment and preliminary grading for that second track. Probably worth mentioning is that this segment is roughly comparable to adding the second span across the Pecos River at Ft. Sumner, MN, with one key difference: the daily train count at Alva, so I've read, runs 40-50 per day, whereas at Ft. Sumner, 80, and maybe up to 100 trains on a busy day.
That's an astonishing amount of traffic that splits off at Avard and possibly Amarillo and Clovis. The Memphis IM terminal has been upgraded recently; what other endpoints are getting this traffic? TIA!
Mini transcon Google map: http://goo.gl/maps/91eb6
When you ask, "what other endpoints are getting this traffic?" you do not specify from which of the three junctions -- Clovis, Amarillo and Avard -- you meant, so I'll take a brief shot at all of 'em. From Clovis and Amarillo, BNSF offers service to Dallas-Ft. Worth and Houston. From Avard, BNSF service extands to Tulsa, Memphis, Birmingham and (through service on other rails) Atlanta, Charlotte and Jacksonville. Knowledgeable BNSF'ers are cordially invited to add and correct. --billio
Mulvane is the jct for traffic out of the South& Okla.[yard at Arkansas City,Ks.] (Ark City Sub), and runs through Wichita, Newton and East towards KC area.
The El Dorado sub [Ellinor,ks. to East switch, and on to w/b T-con @Mulvane] Traffic is bi-directional, but seems to run as 'fleets', (or pairs of trains) in either direction. Some of this traffic can be directed on to the Ark City sub, and South from the by-pass out on the East side of town.
K.P., the Hauser refueling shed services a variety of train types, most of which are fairly long-haul. PRB coal to coast, Midwest or eastern Montana grain to coast, Bakken and Canadian crude to coast or California, intermodal from Chicago, Texas, and points between to the coast or vice versa. It's not about keeping motive power close to the area, but about avoiding the need to have power removed from trains en route or at their turn-around point for servicing.
Unit trains hauling grain, coal, oil, etc., get fueled at Hauser and can make the round trip to coastal/semi-coastal terminals and back, then get fueled again heading east as empties. Saves the time and hassle of cutting those units off and shuttling them to some other facility for fueling, and lets them stay on or near their train during the unloading process. Similar process for some (but not necessarily all) stack trains heading to/from ports.
Domestic intermodals, on the other hand, get assembled and disassembled in Portland and South Seattle in such a way that their power tends to not need servicing at Hauser. Same for most manifests, of course, which are getting power serviced at Pasco and to a lesser degree at Parkwater (Spokane). Last Saturday saw a bit of a fluke with H-PASKCK going through Hauser on Main 6. I arrived there in time to see it depart behind Z-PTLCHC (which changed crews on Main 2), but I can't say for certain whether the "Pass-Kick" actually fueled on Main 6 or merely got routed that way to make its crew change without blocking Mains 1 and 2.
K.P., I knew you were referring to the Star Trek Scotty; I simply could not resist asking if another Scotty who was associated with the area was the man.
Is the location of the fuel racks. Amarillo is a 1000 mile inspection point and if needed power is switched out there aka not as much needed they will take off some.
https://goo.gl/maps/CEPy51zqTZr °4https://goo.gl/maps/CEPy51zqTZr Is the location of the racks by the shop. 9'46.8"W
Deggesty (3-7):
Hi, Johnny!
It is not clear what you were implying or insinuating by Death Valley Scotty, but he was notorious for scams and ripping people off, i.e., taking their money. The Scotty previously referred to in my post involved the famous show Star Trek, and the ability of moving people (and / or things) from point A to B in seconds. In the post A would be Southern California, B would be New Mexico, and that distance would take me three days to drive. A transporter, if possible, would save me much time.
Shadow the Cats owner (3-8):
Are you sure about those Belen (NM) and Amarillo (TX) details?
Belen looks similar to Winslow (AZ), and I don’t think they fuel the power there.
In aerials of Amarillo I found NO fueling pads. They may be there, but I failed to see any.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think power can run from the West Coast all the way to Chicago without refueling nowadays. There is limited fueling here and there for local power, or for units running low on fuel for whatever reason.
Bruce Kelly (3-8):
Is this the Mains 3-6 Hauser, ID fueling location, under a light weight building covering?
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.7813624,-116.9464734,161m/data=!3m1!1e3
The fact that there are four such tracks AND two other straight through tracks (Mains 1 and 2) suggests, at least to me, that a lot of train traffic is not Pacific Northwest coast to Chicago straight through operations, but power lingers in a region and needs refueling in that region. Is that a fair assessment, Bruce?
Thanks,
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