Trains.com

Updates on Multi-Tracking the Two BNSF Transcons

85998 views
461 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 8:22 AM

That is an impressive switch being assembled.

Looks like movable point frogs.

The way it is sitting it almost appears equilateral or they will be having the diverging route go under the bridge.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Monday, October 19, 2020 6:22 PM

Thanks for this later video. My judgment tells me this is to solve a drainage -erosion situation where the original 1882 single track can no longer withstand the almost 140 years of infrequent but occasional flash flooding. 

The soon to be former south track will be stabilized with riprap or other deterents to protect the north track which was built in the 1920's I think. Anyone with further info will be welcome.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Monday, October 19, 2020 4:56 PM

New Truxton Video.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Monday, October 12, 2020 11:28 AM

Had to google this...

https://ntlrepository.blob.core.windows.net/lib/42000/42800/42879/rr0803.pdf

 

Always learning something new from everyone here.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:45 AM

BaltACD
Welded rail is a technology that still has not been fully mastered by the industry to be able to adapt to wide temperature swings without creating either the failure mode of sun kinks or broken rail/rail separations.

I would argue that the Class 9 slab track tested by the FRA neatly does this with little difficulty, and can be optimized for top-down maintenance with minimal equipment expense if properly built and installed.  

Whether that is worth the additional cost is a different matter entirely.  But there is no doubt that if you want high speed and heavy axle load together, there is at present no better solution, certainly not one that involves individual lateral elements with a suddenly fluidizable shear layer in the subgrade...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, October 11, 2020 8:53 AM

Overmod
Last I heard was that asphalt in the upper subgrade (the one place the mid-'70s competition on asphalt for railroading appeared to have borne potential fruit) had been somewhat deprecated due to increased lateral instability and sun kink in very hot weather.  I suspect it was supplanted by some form of roller-compacted concrete with less thermoplastic binder...

It would be interesting to see accounts or video of how it is still used, perhaps in conjunction with geotextile material.

Welded rail is a technology that still has not been fully mastered by the industry to be able to adapt to wide temperature swings without creating either the failure mode of sun kinks or broken rail/rail separations.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 10, 2020 12:23 AM

Last I heard was that asphalt in the upper subgrade (the one place the mid-'70s competition on asphalt for railroading appeared to have borne potential fruit) had been somewhat deprecated due to increased lateral instability and sun kink in very hot weather.  I suspect it was supplanted by some form of roller-compacted concrete with less thermoplastic binder...

It would be interesting to see accounts or video of how it is still used, perhaps in conjunction with geotextile material.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Friday, October 9, 2020 2:45 PM

SD60MAC9500
Another item. Is BNSF still using asphalt for subgrade?

I've only see them use it in wetter climates with marginal drainage - see Alva OK for instance.

BTW here is the latest video on the Truxton flyover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z05vyaWPGWA

Per posts on The Other site, pile driving for the second bridge over Lake Pend Oreille has begun. Just to the RR east the siding upgrades to full CTC are complete.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, October 9, 2020 12:14 PM
 

diningcar

Any news about the Truxton flyover progress??

 

Track construction is in progress across the flyover. Looks like possibly next month or Dec the flyover will be open.

 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Friday, October 9, 2020 11:02 AM

Any news about the Truxton flyover progress??

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, September 21, 2020 4:56 PM
 

Update of progress at Truxton, AZ. 

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, August 21, 2020 5:17 PM
 

Ok thanks for the correction. I worded my question wrong. Another item. Is BNSF still using asphalt for subgrade? I remebmer seeing this when they were doing work in the panhandle back in the early to mid 2000’s.

P.S. Came across this on youtube

 

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Friday, August 21, 2020 3:00 PM

SD60MAC9500 asks,  What’s the gradient from Ash Fork to Williams? 

Ash Fork has not been on the 'transcon' since 1960. The 44 mile Williams - Crookton line change moved the 'transcon' north away from the 1880(s) line.

The 44 mile new line has only 1% or less grades and 1 degree curves or less. Passenger trains - Amtrak - can and does operate at 90 MPH over this 44 miles.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, August 21, 2020 2:21 PM

While a flyover is indeed a great way to avoid stopping trains. What’s the gradient from Ash Fork to Williams? How often are trains held for opposing traffic? As you said Diningcar I noticed the wash from the linked video, and it does appear this  is a problem. Monsoon season isn’t a great season with frequent flash flooding. I noticed there’s concrete embankment to keep the RoW stabilized. So perhaps this is a combination of factors. Keeping trains moving while avoiding any more work to keeping the wash in check.

Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Friday, August 21, 2020 1:22 PM

Yes Overmod, but this RR has been here since 1885 +- and the engineers know the history. Perhaps the plan is to enhance the existing south track embankment  to keep the historical erosion issue diverted from this 'historic problem site'.  

Just a a thought waiting for an answer from BNSF.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, August 21, 2020 12:21 PM

diningcar
After studying the site with the aid of google earth I am suspecting that Truxton Wash erosion is a contributing factor - perhaps the major factor.

But would this not indicate at least doing the grading for double track provision there, rather than the implicit restriction of what is essentially a single-track bridge the distance between approach crossovers?

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Friday, August 21, 2020 11:14 AM

After studying the site with the aid of google earth I am suspecting that Truxton Wash erosion is a contributing factor - perhaps the major factor. 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Friday, August 21, 2020 7:45 AM

I suggest there will be further explanation(s).

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, August 21, 2020 1:49 AM
 

diningcar

jmonier, that was my question also; as I suggested the Belen to Truxton 477 mile distance did not seem to me to be a reasonable explanation for the flyover.

 

 

Here's a comment that was said on TO about the truxton flyover

"Date: 01/22/20 01:20

Re: New BNSF Flyover at Truxton Arlzona
Author: slug96


 

The reason for the flyover is for the Gallup Sub. The location of the flyover is cause that's where the railroad was able to get land.
This is a better detail version of why the flyover is being built.

"The Gallup Sub, while a bi-directional CTC setup, runs traditionally "left hand". This was set up after the line was double tracked, as the best way to surmount the grade from Ash Fork to Williams was to bring the eastbound (uphill) track to the north to avoid the grades of Johnson Canyon. Instead of swapping them back at the top of the Arizona Divide, instead, the double track was kept left hand running, and newer grades were built for the "left hand" track to lessen the grades over The Continental Divide and out of the Rio Puerco Valley.

TLDR: Winslow to Belen, while bi-directional, is a Left Hand Ran Railroad."

Why don't they just used the CTC CTC crossover switches that are already installed? Cause that stops the movement of trains. A flyover doesn't."

Posted from Android

 

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Thursday, August 20, 2020 1:01 PM

jmonier, that was my question also; as I suggested the Belen to Truxton 477 mile distance did not seem to me to be a reasonable explanation for the flyover.

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • 23 posts
Posted by jmonier on Thursday, August 20, 2020 12:27 PM

diningcar: My question to you is: If all the 50 mph crossovers, etc. make it so easy, why is a flyover being built at all and why is it being built specifically in that location? That was the point of my post.

The addition of 2MT CTC has not changed the grades, so there is still a considerable advantage to left handed running Winslow to Belen. If traffic is not too heavy in the opposing direction, then changing traffic directions via crossovers is acceptable (as was done for many years). With the heavy traffic now on the Transcon, it's another story entirely.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:20 AM

Seems like a few sections of a 3rd main could have releived that bottleneck as well. 

Interesting

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Thursday, August 20, 2020 10:36 AM

Yes rdamon, there are grade advantages to the continental divide summit in NM. Those also can be accomodated with the 50MPH crossovers which the dispatcher who handles the Belen to Gallup segment. The heavy trains can be manuvered just like the Amtrak 3 and 4. 

The dispatcher who handles the Winslow to Seligman segment must deal with the AZ summit just west from Flagstaff in a similar manner. The former Williams to Seligman grade problems were mitigated with the 1960 line change which reduced the max grade to 1%. All of these locations have the 50 MPH crossovers. 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Thursday, August 20, 2020 10:16 AM

I recall some grade advantages running left hand uphill on both sides of the divide.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Thursday, August 20, 2020 9:42 AM

BNSF has CTC/TCS all the way from Belen to Barstow with 50 MPH xovers spaced every 10 +- miles. If you ride #3 or #4 you will experience many crossovers as BNSF attempts to keep Amtrak on schedule as it competes many freight trains. Left hand running no longer exists. 

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • 23 posts
Posted by jmonier on Thursday, August 20, 2020 9:17 AM

The reason for this flyover is because there has always been left hand running from west of Winslow to Belen to get the most favorable grades. Both tracks were originally signalled for one direction only (no CTC) and there was a flyover near Ashfork.  When Ashfork (and thus the flyover) was bypassed in the 60's the first CTC was installed from Seligman to Winslow and the burden was on the dispatcher to switch trains to the proper track somewhere in that segment.  With the increase of traffic that has caused big delays and that is the reason for the new flyover.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 6:39 PM

MikeF90, thanks for the video. Seems surprising to me that a flyover at Truxton (MP 477) would be the location to elleviate a fueling access situation at Belen (MP0). The southern Transcon has 50 mph xovers every 10+- miles which allows multiple opportunities to cross from the south to the north or vice versa.

I suggest this Truxton construction has another justification. MC, have you heard about this?

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 3:36 PM

Besides the ongoing Emporia sub construction, BNSF contractors are building a flyover near Truxton, AZ on the Seligman sub.  Their media pages have been near silent since early this year so I don't have details from there.

Here is one of two YT videos found on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYbF3O7JRjQ&t=5s

As I've read, the purpose is to move eastbounds to the north track for easier access to the fueling racks at Belen, NM. Construction is well along with completion due later this year.

Also no recent status of the siding upgrade work between Sandpoint, ID and Whitefish, MT. I'm no signaling expert, but wayside cabinets seen in recent Kootenai River sub videos look pretty new and IIRC include PTC antennas.

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:28 PM

This BNSF carload shipping network map gives a comprehensive view of the BNSF subdivisions:

 

http://www.bnsf.com/ship-with-bnsf/maps-and-shipping-locations/pdf/carload_map.pdf

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Sunday, June 28, 2020 2:54 PM

samfp1943, the Emporia Sub does not proceed toward Topeka.The connection to the KC-Newton line is at Ellinor, 12.6 miles west from Emporia. The line from Emporia through Topeka to Holliday is not the principal freight line but is the AMTRAK line, with occasioinal local freight.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy