Trains.com

Updates on Multi-Tracking the Two BNSF Transcons

85998 views
461 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 2:22 PM

To: Mike90, and others: W/E of 06/26/27/28/2020; Re: BNSF- Flint Hills.

 Some observations, from Mulvane, and line NE,  Friday PM saw a MOW train EB, was a single unit with a string of MOW 'critters', they were placed between what looked to be a couple of very large surfacing and tamping machines.  Saurday AM there was an early mixed train; the first cars were a string of about 20 or so giondolas and hopper cars; loaded with what appeared to be 'junk' ties and materials. Today, Sunday, there was an eastbnd, BNSF ballast train, euipped with solar panels, and possibly GPS dumping(?). So my guess is that the previously noted construction from the Matfield Green area, and northeast toward the Topeka area  is probably moving right along.  Traffic seems to move in 'fleets', both eastbnd and westbnd.  

They seem to be moving an awful lot of auto carriers to the west(?). A couple of trains a day of solid auto carriers, and also in the mixed trains, as well. 

   It might also be a product of that construction in the Flint Hills, but in the last couple of weeks the BNSF seems to be holding trains in this area; we're about 12 miles out of Wellington Yard [to change crews(?)].  Whistling    

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Monday, June 8, 2020 4:05 PM

Reports by a roving, retired rail on The Other forum state that the new second main from Chelsea to Aikman will be cut in by about June 23. Other grading and bridge prep has been observed in the E Gladstone - Ellinor area.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: KS
  • 999 posts
Posted by SFbrkmn on Saturday, April 18, 2020 11:58 AM

Emporia Sub project is still ongoing and has not been slowed down or stopped because of the conditions of the economy and the virus. Scheduled to be completed in 2022. Cannot get here fast enough and move away the 16,000k trains away from the Ark City Sub here in Wichita.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Friday, April 17, 2020 1:44 PM

MikeF90, I was Right of Way Agent on the Asst. General Manager Engineering staff at Topeka when this occurred so I only had very minor participation with the Emporia Sub line change. 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Friday, April 17, 2020 1:35 PM

Hi @diningcar, am I remembering correctly that you worked for the AT&SF on the Crookton Cutoff? If so, did you also work on the Emporia sub reroute? TIA!

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:45 PM

Thanks MikeF90. 

Anyone who has photos of Emporia Sub new construction - posting them will be appreciated.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Thursday, April 16, 2020 12:58 PM

@diningcar, please check your Messages (PM) for one I sent a few days ago. Thanks!

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Sunday, April 12, 2020 9:59 PM

samfp, when you can once more get out and about we (and me especially) would appreciate specific info as they upgrade the Emporia Sub. In addition to my personal experiences on it I, along with other friends and his family, scattered the ashes of a prominent Santa Fe Engineering Dept. man at Matfield Green and just north of the lake.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, April 12, 2020 4:48 PM

[quote user="MikeF90"]

I used to be a F.O.B. member but I refuse to do FacePalm where they are now. The above link isn't too detailed but the Coast Guard (not the USACE?) is involved. I'm surprised at any 'friction' because when the RR says 'our bridge is in danger of collapse' the permits usually get fast tracked - happened for old bridges on the line between LA and San Diego.

BTW don't you have to go to El Dorado for 'special groceries'? Whistling....

[/quote]   It might be that the Coasties are ;wnvolved' because so much of the Missouri R is  navigible(?).  Just a guess,[C.G.] they seem to pop up when there is any envolvement with a'problem' that might cause a 'downstream problem' on a connector that feeds into a navigable waterway .  Years back, I had a 'fuel spill; on I-65 in Kentucky...The second call I got was from the Coast Guard, they had been notified by the Ky State Police...Who had been notified by the County Sheriff.. My driver had hit a big Racoon, and broke his crossover line;  we bught a repaivng of about 7 mi of I-[65 and the Trk Stp Parking lot near Sheprdsville.  The Coasties got invo;vede because,m a stream flowed into a river which eventually fed into Lake Michigan...Whistling

Problem with going out around here is our School Marm Gov. has locked down the whole State; our trip to ElDorado seems to be on hold for a while! Bang Head  Will P.M. you when we start it.

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:35 PM

I used to be a F.O.B. member but I refuse to do FacePalm where they are now. The above link isn't too detailed but the Coast Guard (not the USACE?) is involved. I'm surprised at any 'friction' because when the RR says 'our bridge is in danger of collapse' the permits usually get fast tracked - happened for old bridges on the line between LA and San Diego.

BTW don't you have to go to El Dorado for 'special groceries'? Whistling

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, April 11, 2020 8:12 PM

Mike90:  RE;The Emporia Sub, in the Flint Hills area:  Apparently, the carloads of partially assembled switches were headed to that area(?) that I mentioned to you last week.  Also, some of the EB traffic thru here has included a number of MOW ballast hoppers and loads of ties. they seem to be in the type of traffic that is some that might be classed as 'local' (?), or one that could easily do enroute swithching(?). 

     Traffic is moving in fleets thru here , and there seem to be pretty sizeable 'windows' between the fleeting moves(?).  Still house bound here due to the COVID19 'rules'. Will let you know when we can get up to the Matfield Green area(?).  

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, April 11, 2020 8:02 PM

MikeF90

On the northern transcon, BNSF contractors are ramping up their work related to the second Lake Pend Oreille bridge:  https://www.railwayage.com/mw/bnsf-breaks-ground-for-second-sandpoint-bridge/   No construction pictures yet except for the article lead by Bruce Kelly. Thumbs Up

The article states that "dual crossovers will be installed between the two main tracks on the Sandpoint end of the main bridges, near Dog Beach." It will be interesting to see how this is built in such tight quarters.

Mike90:  RE: Info on the Northern T-con in North Dakota; specifically, on the Missouri River bridge between Bismarck and Mandan Northj Dakota.  I received an e-mail via The Friends of The BNSF;  It is a fairly regular mailing, and in this one, there is a video  titled:

"New Bridge Will Help North Dakota Business Get to Market"   

  In it are details of problems(apparent?) the the BNSF is having in getting permits to replace this 100yr. old bridge over the Missouri R.  They are requesting, via a couple of links in the article for 'concerned parties" [ie: FOBNSF members] to write, or text [52886] their support for this bridge project, and maybe get the 'agencies' to get off their collective duff's,  and push the required permits through! 

Here is a link to the video@ http://view.email.bnsf.com/?qs=84c197a7612504f8e0807fb24717b132eb7fb44f9ed63773cf9f49c01a078d0f5376c97cbfa31aa7d3667017372b106998ae5445fd57826e93d66f82b693db874d56c0239605c1ea3d1a4480308c0d67a1f66af7bb245e18

 

 


 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Saturday, April 11, 2020 3:29 PM

Posts on another railfan site have repeated the observations of construction activity on single track portions of the Emporia sub (southern transcon), along with an alleged timetable. I have updated my Southern Transcon map to show the possible segments:

 http://g.co/maps/dyzd3

The locations do correspond with the expected universal crossovers at ~10 mile spacing. Only one segment was slated for (presumably late) 2020 completion.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Friday, March 6, 2020 4:12 PM

On the northern transcon, BNSF contractors are ramping up their work related to the second Lake Pend Oreille bridge:  https://www.railwayage.com/mw/bnsf-breaks-ground-for-second-sandpoint-bridge/   No construction pictures yet except for the article lead by Bruce Kelly. Thumbs Up

The article states that "dual crossovers will be installed between the two main tracks on the Sandpoint end of the main bridges, near Dog Beach." It will be interesting to see how this is built in such tight quarters.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Friday, February 21, 2020 2:40 PM

ccltrains
Good morning KP.

Hello @ccltrains: K.P. has not posted anything since last October, not really sure why.

At any rate, your followup should be on the Sunset Route topic instead where several siding extensions were discussed. I just found some more 'mud pot' news that I will post there.

UPDATE: Arrgh, forum links are FUBAR in this post, here's the Sunset Route topic to copy and paste:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/120779/3217808.aspx#3217808

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • 433 posts
Posted by ccltrains on Wednesday, February 19, 2020 10:42 AM
Good morning KP. Enjoyed your coverage of the Sunset route but lately nothing has happened. Any new plans to fill the gap between Tucson and Yuma and the single tracking around the Saltan Sea?
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Friday, February 14, 2020 4:03 PM

Back in the Flint Hills area, railfan rumors seem to be heating up. Sights of grading near Matfield Green and Gladstone sidings are reported. Construction during the winter months seems unusual as there are sub-zero temps around.

If siding lengths are subtracted, the alleged '50 mile' grading contract may include all single track segments including just west of El Dorado Lake and Mulvane-Augusta. When BNSF rolls out its state-by-state capital plans in the next few weeks as usual we may learn more.

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • 23 posts
Posted by jmonier on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:56 AM

Yes, I actually doubt that they will ever need a 3rd main track there.  The big reason for three tracks in Cajon was the bottleneck of having a 3% grade on one of two tracks.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Monday, January 6, 2020 7:47 PM

jmonier
I think that when they add a third main track, it's possible that they might eliminate the flyover completely. It all depends on the costs and operational complexities of the various options.

I agree; they would have to add another flyover or somehow expand the existing 'flyunder' to keep two existing tracks in service. Add that expense to widening the ROW in the nearby Upper Narrows, and I think you have an expensive-to-fix bottleneck like a long bridge.

IMO if they really need the capacity they will add ten mile long 3MT blocks to the north or south of this area first. No sign of that need yet, probably will see the 'PSR monster train' solution near term.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Sunday, January 5, 2020 5:20 PM

IIRC there was some discussion several pages ago that the Green Tree extention may threaten the Natural Crossover ..

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • 23 posts
Posted by jmonier on Sunday, January 5, 2020 7:36 AM
I think that when they add a third main track, it's possible that they might eliminate the flyover completely. It all depends on the costs and operational complexities of the various options.
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Saturday, January 4, 2020 3:34 PM

Happy New Year!

On the Cajon sub (southern transcon near Victorville CA) railfans report that the Lower Narrows bridges are being rebuilt. It is not known if a third bridge and/or approaches for future use will be built.

Nearby local governments have lined up funding and BNSF permission to extend Green Tree Blvd near the Frost flyover. Not sure if this will affect RR operations, IMO they may need a new crossover to facilitate adding a third main track here.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Thursday, December 12, 2019 9:43 AM

This photo is from an overpass on KS HWY 177 looking southward down the track toward Eldorado Lake. The track turns left and will cross the lake in about one mile.

The overpass has been there for many years.

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,139 posts
Posted by Gramp on Thursday, December 12, 2019 3:17 AM

Flint Hills region is something to see. It was never farmed. The soil was too rocky.   You can easily imagine what the pioneers faced as they ventured west. I-35 cuts through it on a narrow ROW.  You can make out semis traveling on it in the distance in the BNSF drone video on the post above.  Virtually unspoiled prairie from horizon to horizon, mile after mile. In the fall, it's all golden brown. Awe inspiring in its own way. 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, December 11, 2019 10:39 PM

Here is a single track section in the Flint Hills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxLc0x5Blzw

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:44 AM

I did not see any news articles about a new bridge.  Wonder if they were just regrading the road.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Saturday, December 7, 2019 5:14 PM

I agree that adding a second MT should proceed quickly being pretty flat territory, IIRC some of the area is referred to as the 'Flint Hills'. Be interesting to see if they extend / join sidings a la P.S.R. or do the whole shebang. The directional routing via Newton/Wichita may be running out of capacity, especially since the Ark City sub sidings are pretty short.

rdamon
Looking at a street view in the area it looks like work was started as early as 2007

Hmm, looks like normal grading for a maintenance road to me, or perhaps they ran out of $$$ for more second main. The road overpass looks pretty short and probably was built when the ROW was graded c.1970 to bypass the old route now underwater. More wait and see ....

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:46 PM

Looking at a street view in the area it looks like work was started as early as 2007

2007

 

 2012

 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 109 posts
Posted by David1005 on Friday, December 6, 2019 1:53 AM

In looking at google satellite views, there appears to be about 6 miles of single track here.  It looks like the grading and bridge work was completed some time ago.  I have to wonder why this was not double tracked long ago.  There does not appear to be any major obstacles like other recent two tracking projects. 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:31 PM

On the southern transcon front, a post on another forum states that a contractor has been seen grading for a second MT between Cassoway siding and El Dorado Lake, KS (Chelsea). Furthermore, this 10 miles reportedly is part of a ~50 mile contract (bounds unknown). BNSF has previously announced 'intent' but no further details AFAIK.

Grading far in advance is typical for a large 2MT project as it gives time for the ROW a chance to 'settle', relocating utilities, etc. before building final touches like prefab bridges.

Anyone with pictures or useful links, please post!

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy