This is the first time I have seen this blog. For me, the interest derives from the BNSF's Northern Transcon in terms of double-track expansion. In looking at the discussion, it seems BNSF is adding additional trackage that I was not aware of the last several years on the Northern Transcon. Does anybody know if BNSF has added or expanded sidings on the Lakeside Sub between Spokane and Pasco within the past two years? Also, are they now running upwards of 10,000 foot trains into Washington?
Thanks for that info, Shadow. I was eyeballing the layout of those Belen fuel pads and it looked like only one of them might, maybe, have enough track on both sides of it for a train to fuel its head end, then pull ahead to fuel the DPUs without frogging other trains, but trucks make that point moot.
The 4-track fuel pad at Hauser, ID, is situated mid-way along the yard with enough length on all four refueling mains (numbered 3-6) for a train to fuel its head end, then re-spot to fuel the DPUs without getting in anyone else's way. In fact, once a train pulls ahead for its DPUs to fuel, the next train behind it can pull in and hold just short of the pad (at East or West Downing) and be fully clear of Mains 1, 2, and the east and west yard leads.
KP Eastbounds fuel up at Belen the first point they do fuel them up since leaving CA. Westbounds are fueled up at Amarillo for the run into CA. DPU's get fueled up via tanker trucks. Think how the US Army fuels up their tanks in the field a truck pulls up next to the tank and fuels it up.
kgbw49 Well played, Mr. Deggesty! Well played indeed!
Well played, Mr. Deggesty! Well played indeed!
Oh, you do not need to be so formal; just call me "Johnny."
Johnny
K.P., is that Death Valley Scotty you want to beam you up?
rdamon and all: “Fuel Pads” (“FUEL PADS”)?
Quite an imagination you have, rdamon!
I have to assess the surprise, new development, that three tracking for about ten miles west of Belen, NM.
The TRAINS newswire article mentioned fueling or fuel pads. That strikes me as illogical. Such pads seem (“seem”) to go contrary to DPU practices there. That needs to be clarified by the newswire author I think.
In light of this new development, it is wondered what that grading was on the west side of Winslow, AZ and if it is connected to the New Mexico development in some way.
Back to the Belen area, the fact that work has started opens up many possibilities for visiting. So does aerials of the Belen area. I wonder if Scotty would beam me and my car over there for a few hours ...
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Should we start a crowdsourcing project to fund an apartment for K.P. nearby? :)
The News Line reports that BNSF plans to add a third track from Dalies to Belen Jct, about 10 miles: http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/268727/3044412.aspx#3044412
BTW I have not yet found a public BNSF announcement of this two year project.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
MikeF90 billio That indeed pinpoints the Alva stretch missing the second track. To the north (top of the map), you can make out the embankment and preliminary grading for that second track. Probably worth mentioning is that this segment is roughly comparable to adding the second span across the Pecos River at Ft. Sumner, MN, with one key difference: the daily train count at Alva, so I've read, runs 40-50 per day, whereas at Ft. Sumner, 80, and maybe up to 100 trains on a busy day. That's an astonishing amount of traffic that splits off at Avard and possibly Amarillo and Clovis. The Memphis IM terminal has been upgraded recently; what other endpoints are getting this traffic? TIA! Mini transcon Google map: http://goo.gl/maps/91eb6
billio That indeed pinpoints the Alva stretch missing the second track. To the north (top of the map), you can make out the embankment and preliminary grading for that second track. Probably worth mentioning is that this segment is roughly comparable to adding the second span across the Pecos River at Ft. Sumner, MN, with one key difference: the daily train count at Alva, so I've read, runs 40-50 per day, whereas at Ft. Sumner, 80, and maybe up to 100 trains on a busy day.
That's an astonishing amount of traffic that splits off at Avard and possibly Amarillo and Clovis. The Memphis IM terminal has been upgraded recently; what other endpoints are getting this traffic? TIA!
Mini transcon Google map: http://goo.gl/maps/91eb6
When you ask, "what other endpoints are getting this traffic?" you do not specify from which of the three junctions -- Clovis, Amarillo and Avard -- you meant, so I'll take a brief shot at all of 'em. From Clovis and Amarillo, BNSF offers service to Dallas-Ft. Worth and Houston. From Avard, BNSF service extands to Tulsa, Memphis, Birmingham and (through service on other rails) Atlanta, Charlotte and Jacksonville. Knowledgeable BNSF'ers are cordially invited to add and correct. --billio
billioThat indeed pinpoints the Alva stretch missing the second track. To the north (top of the map), you can make out the embankment and preliminary grading for that second track. Probably worth mentioning is that this segment is roughly comparable to adding the second span across the Pecos River at Ft. Sumner, MN, with one key difference: the daily train count at Alva, so I've read, runs 40-50 per day, whereas at Ft. Sumner, 80, and maybe up to 100 trains on a busy day.
K. P. Harrier billio (9-2): Is this the site of the Alva, OK presently single-track bridge? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Alva,+OK+73717/@36.8132334,-98.6627543,384m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87af6fe53e8e4b29:0x5507c579d3a68a71!8m2!3d36.8050308!4d-98.6664737 If so, it looks like access to the site is very limited, with a public dirt road going under the bridge from the northeast. Apparently the bridge over the Missouri River at Sibley, MO (that kgbw49 very recently posted about) has a similar access problem. Such bridges are so few and old does anyone in America know how to bid and build such a bridge anymore? Take care, K.P.
billio (9-2):
Is this the site of the Alva, OK presently single-track bridge?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Alva,+OK+73717/@36.8132334,-98.6627543,384m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87af6fe53e8e4b29:0x5507c579d3a68a71!8m2!3d36.8050308!4d-98.6664737
If so, it looks like access to the site is very limited, with a public dirt road going under the bridge from the northeast.
Apparently the bridge over the Missouri River at Sibley, MO (that kgbw49 very recently posted about) has a similar access problem. Such bridges are so few and old does anyone in America know how to bid and build such a bridge anymore?
Take care,
KP, I must beg your indulgence. I missed your above reply until just now. I was preparing my Florida home for Hurricane Irma, and then left town before the storm hit. Truthfully, it never occurred to me that anyone would ask any question related to my earlier post. The answer to your query about the Alva segment is, "Yes." That indeed pinpoints the Alva stretch missing the second track. To the north (top of the map), you can make out the embankment and preliminary grading for that second track. Probably worth mentioning is that this segment is roughly comparable to adding the second span across the Pecos River at Ft. Sumner, MN, with one key difference: the daily train count at Alva, so I've read, runs 40-50 per day, whereas at Ft. Sumner, 80, and maybe up to 100 trains on a busy day. So, three guesses why BNSF attacked Ft. Sumner first. Eventually, I figure they'll get around to Alva, too.
I saw (in Trains Magazine, I think) a blurb to the effect that BNSF has begun filing environmental and waterway papers for engineering work for the second Sibley bridge, but as someone else points out, that process can drag out for years.
Sorry again for the delay in replying to you. --billio
MidlandMike (10-31):
Your rather definitive Sandpoint to Spokane being the only stretch having any two-tracking taking place on the western northern Transcon was quite helpful. If I visit the northwest I’ll know exactly the area to zero in on, though that long tunnel area Bruce Kelly visited sounds exciting too.
Thanks.
Forgot to post earlier, the new CP Silver (North Pole ), MP 35.0 appears to be in service now as seen on ATCSMon.
Bruce KellyJust got back from three days in Flathead Tunnel country myself. Traffic levels are astounding right now. Quite a few trains headed either direction getting re-crewed roughly mid-way through their trip in the Troy-Kootenai Falls-Libby area, as well as elsewhere. From Troy west, not much easy access for crew shuttles due to the Kootenai River Canyon until Crossport or Bonners Ferry.
Some beautiful territory that I hope to visit someday. With higher traffic levels, I'm surprised that BNSF hasn't extended a siding or two just RR east of the Pend Orielle Lake bridge to handle those 'monster' trains that they like to run. Perhaps with all of those grade crossings a second MT would be more appropriate. Even more challenges for the DS ....
EDIT: added BNSF Northern and Southern Transcon map links to my sig
KP, the only major 2 tracking of the western Northern Transcon that I have heard about is on the "funnel" between Sandpoint (where BNSF and MRL/ex-NP converge from the east) and Spokane (where the lines to Seattle and Pasco diverge west).
Just got back from three days in Flathead Tunnel country myself. Traffic levels are astounding right now. Quite a few trains headed either direction getting re-crewed roughly mid-way through their trip in the Troy-Kootenai Falls-Libby area, as well as elsewhere. From Troy west, not much easy access for crew shuttles due to the Kootenai River Canyon until Crossport or Bonners Ferry.
Flathead Tunnel's ventilation system was upgraded in the past few years, which may have cut down the flush time there compared with Cascade. Still, Flathead does require a flush between trains. Westbounds often have to wait at Twin Meadows at the east portal after meeting an eastbound while the tunnel is flushed. In some cases, the door at the east end will close and additional flushing will occur while a westbound is inside. Those blowers are so loud that they can be heard (on a quiet, wind-less day) as a distant hum clear over on the west side of the mountain at the forest road overpass just west of Rock Creek.
A major difference between Flathead and Cascade is that the grades approaching Flathead from either side max out at 1 percent and the grade inside the tunnel is 0.48 percent ascending eastward, while Cascade has grades of up to 2.2 percent approaching from either side, and the grade within the tunnel is 1.57 percent ascending eastward. In other words, the grade within Cascade Tunnel is more than three times as steep as the grade within Flathead Tunnel.
Also, the engineering of the main line via Flathead opened in 1970 with its generally broad valleys vs. the engineering of the main line via Cascade Tunnel opened in 1929 makes for a big difference in overall running speeds.
For years I have heard that the Cascade tunnel was a bottleneck on the BNSF to the extent that there was talk about adding a second bore. Recently I was at the Flathead tunnel which is similar to the Cascade tunnel in length and ventilation scheme. Big difference being it is east of Spokane where there should be even more traffic. Why is the Flathead tunnel not the big bottleneck?
Bruce Kelly (10-30):
Posts in the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” thread are easy for me to relate to because of my familiarity to that route, and the present basically lack of two-tracking thereon as UP is preoccupied with the Positive Train Control (PTC) government mandate. However, BNSF undoubtedly is likewise preoccupied with PTC, but your very recent posts in this thread suggest BNSF is two-tracking on the western northern Transcon to some degree, unlike UP. Could you convey to me post-wise something I could comprehend as to actual two-tracking activity up on the northern Transcon?
Ironically, just this morning my wife asked me what I planned on doing with the two tons of gold in my trunk set aside for vacationing. (Yah, right!) Maybe next spring I could use part of the stash to see and comprehend that western part of the northern Transcon two-tracking. Do you have any recommendations for seeing two-tracking up that way?
Thanks,
Two main tracks from Sunset Jct (east end of Latah Creek Bridge) in Spokane to Irvin, WA; then single track from Irvin across Spokane River bridge to Otis Orchards, WA; then two main tracks from Otis Orchards to Cocolalla, ID; single track from Cocolalla past Lake Cocolalla to West Algoma; two main tracks from West Algoma to East Algoma at west (geographically southeast) end of the Lake Pend Oreille bridge.
Bruce Kelly Second main (Main 1) between Rathdrum and West Ramsey entered service earlier this month. Ramsey siding is now operating as part of the new Main 1. Crews are still putting the finishing touches on second main between East Ramsey and Athol. Track is in place, but final track cutover and removal of old switches has not been completed. Dual crossovers are in place just west of the Brunner Road crossing between Ramsey and Athol. A few of us had hoped this site would be named CP North Pole in honor of the former townsite/village that once existed there. I passed that along to a couple of people closely involved with the project, and the name was being given consideration, but I was told the directional reference (North) is something BNSF is currently trying to avoid in its station names. [Snip]
Second main (Main 1) between Rathdrum and West Ramsey entered service earlier this month. Ramsey siding is now operating as part of the new Main 1. Crews are still putting the finishing touches on second main between East Ramsey and Athol. Track is in place, but final track cutover and removal of old switches has not been completed. Dual crossovers are in place just west of the Brunner Road crossing between Ramsey and Athol. A few of us had hoped this site would be named CP North Pole in honor of the former townsite/village that once existed there. I passed that along to a couple of people closely involved with the project, and the name was being given consideration, but I was told the directional reference (North) is something BNSF is currently trying to avoid in its station names. [Snip]
These new second nain track segments give BNSF double track from Spokane to where? Cocolalla, maybe? And when they're both complete, how much single track remaining to the bridge across Lake Pend Oreille? Thanks in advance, both for the update and the answers. --billio
Second main (Main 1) between Rathdrum and West Ramsey entered service earlier this month. Ramsey siding is now operating as part of the new Main 1. Crews are still putting the finishing touches on second main between East Ramsey and Athol. Track is in place, but final track cutover and removal of old switches has not been completed. Dual crossovers are in place just west of the Brunner Road crossing between Ramsey and Athol. A few of us had hoped this site would be named CP North Pole in honor of the former townsite/village that once existed there. I passed that along to a couple of people closely involved with the project, and the name was being given consideration, but I was told the directional reference (North) is something BNSF is currently trying to avoid in its station names.
Hauser Yard has also undergone major expansion with Main 3 finally extended west and east to full run-through refueling main status, giving Hauser four complete run-through refueling mains (3 thru 6). Main 3 had been a short servicing track for light power accessed directly from the adjacent yard since the fuel pad's opening in 2004. Yard and fuel pad leads at East Hauser have been reconfigured and extended east to the Greensferry Road bridge. The refueling mains used to converge into a single track at East Hauser, which then converged with the yard lead, which then converged with Main 2. Only one train at a time could arrive or depart the yard or fuel pad at East Hauser under the old set-up. The refueling mains have been extended and augmented with multiple crossovers in such a way that there can now be two trains arriving and/or departing the fuel pad and/or yard simultaneously.
Paging @Bruce Kelly !!
From posts elsewhere I noticed that the Rathdrum - Athol second main project is much farther along than previously thought. I monitor the Yahoo ATCSMon group but no updates there yet.
Reportedly it was supposed to be complete last week. Is this true? TIA!
As usual, another newspaper story that botches a number of points, misquotes its main source, and leaves the public misinformed. Trains being "disconnected" at Hauser? That could possibly be a reference to the handful of trains that tie down in the yard and have their power shuffled over to Main 3 for fueling, but the vast majority of trains which do get fueled there roll in on Mains 4, 5, or 6 and remain intact unless there's a mechanical issue requiring swap out of a unit.
A recent article in a Bonner county newspaper indicates that BNSF is proceeding on their local capacity improvement projects. Construction of the second MT between Rathdrum and Athol may start next year. Grading work had started previously but was halted.
KP,
The two bridges are comparable only in age. The BNSF bridge is multiple span steel deck plate girders on concrete piers. I do not know if the piers are on bedrock or unconsolidated sediments. I suspect unconsolidated sediments, If so, then piers are probably supported by driven piles.
Mac
Comparison
A comparable bridge (to the 1905 built BNSF Lake Pend Oreille bridge in Idaho) is this 1905 Viaduct Bridge in Riverside, CA on the LA&SL (UP), an alternate Sunset Route routing.
That above ‘road’ passing under the Viaduct in the first above photo is a hiking / bike trail. The bottom photo's background greenery is a golf course, for those that like to play golf and watch trains.
That Viaduct Bridge is now 117 years old and is seemingly eternal. I find it fascinating that the old, same year 1905 built BNSF Lake Pend Oreille bridge in Idaho hasn’t fared so well. In replacing small portions of that Idaho bridge maybe (“maybe”) BNSF discovered it was worse off than expected, so they figured they would build a new one and then return to replace all the remaining sections of the old one. Has that concept occurred to anyone else?
Bruce Kelly (4-24):
Thanks for the technical clarification. Two bridges side by side will be something to see.
K.P., that Boise Weekly story is a few years old. Per BNSF's info conveyed in my RA story from a week ago, the new bridge will be single track, operating in tandem with the existing bridge, and allowing them greater flexibility to finish the upgrading of the existing bridge.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/bnsf-greenlights-second-idaho-bridge.html?channel=50
What Exactly Will Be Built Across …
… Lake Pend Oreille, Sandpoint, Idaho?
According to the Boise Weekly (linked above) in referring to Railway Age’s reporting, the ‘new’ bride would be constructed with track centers about ‘50 feet apart.’ Does that mean a new bridge with two-tracks that are separated or a single-track new bridge less than 50 feet from the old one?
The present bridge is over 110 years old, so it would seem it would be a candidate for total replacement. Could some clarify the matter?
Some additional info on the proposed second bridge can be found here:
If that bridge was in service today, there would be less than 18 miles of single track across the roughly 67 miles between Sandpoint and Spokane. The longest section of single track, 11 miles between Rathdrum and Athol (with a roughly 2 mile siding mid-way at Ramsey), might finally begin to see its second main laid some time this year. The shortest section of single track, 2.5 miles between Cocolalla and West Algoma, will require some serious effort to squeeze a second track between U.S. Hwy 95 and the shore of Lake Cocolalla. (At least one study says the highway will have to be relocated to higher ground.) The third section of single track, 4 miles between Irvin and Otis Orchards, will require substantial fill work and a second bridge in order to cross the Spokane River.
The bottle-neck will still have lots of single track between Sandpoint and Spokane. I suppose it will be nice to have an alternate bridge to the existing 100 year old bridge which had to be shut down last year for repairs.
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