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NS approaching a melt down ?

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:18 AM

Yesterday's debacle is reflected today. Last night's LSL and Capitol EB left Chicago this morning.  The Capitol is just east of Toledo and LSL not to Toledo yet.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:20 AM

MP173

NS does in fact call signals, slow orders, etc. on the road channel.  It makes for interesting monitoring of the operations of a segment.

Balt...that is exactly what is occurring.  The hiding spots are all taken and with grade crossings every mile or less, there are only a few ideal parking spots on mainlines.  These too are grabbed.  From Gary west it is mainly industrial so there are not as many road crossings.  Trains tend to be stacked there.  Also there are more #3 and #4 tracks in that area.

Today is shaping up about the same as yesterday.  Clog WB at Porter and at CP462 again.  About the same number of trains tied down hither and yon.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by jeaton on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:28 AM

oltmannd

Yesterday's debacle is reflected today. Last night's LSL and Capitol EB left Chicago this morning.  The Capitol is just east of Toledo and LSL not to Toledo yet.

Don,  As you know those late starts are mostly due to the Toledo based crews for those jobs on HOS mandated rest for 8 hours after the late arrival of the inbound train.  Word I got is that the Toledo crew pool is tight.

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Posted by Fred Frailey on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:38 AM

Jay, did they serve the lunch menu on train 30 yesterday?

Fred

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:40 AM

oltmannd

Today is shaping up about the same as yesterday.  Clog WB at Porter and at CP462 again.  About the same number of trains tied down hither and yon.

 
Wither bound ? Hither and yon.   What are the train counts thru the area ?  Is it a mix of slower and faster traffic ?  Very different counts on different days ?
 
 
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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:57 AM

blue streak 1

oltmannd

Today is shaping up about the same as yesterday.  Clog WB at Porter and at CP462 again.  About the same number of trains tied down hither and yon.

 
Wither bound ? Hither and yon.   What are the train counts thru the area ?  Is it a mix of slower and faster traffic ?  Very different counts on different days ?
 
 

Intermodal traffic is generally lighter on weekends, so it give a chance for the railroad to catch it's breath.  Didn't work out so well yesterday.  The mix doesn't matter all that much.  Difference in speed between trains is small.  Intemodal is allowed 60, everything else 50 (Amtrak 79), but the way things are bunching up that matters little.  Having a train outlaw on the main - or worse yet - tie down is like having a wreck on a freeway at rush hour.  Doesn't matter what you're driving or what the speed limit is....

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:00 AM

jeaton

oltmannd

Yesterday's debacle is reflected today. Last night's LSL and Capitol EB left Chicago this morning.  The Capitol is just east of Toledo and LSL not to Toledo yet.

Don,  As you know those late starts are mostly due to the Toledo based crews for those jobs on HOS mandated rest for 8 hours after the late arrival of the inbound train.  Word I got is that the Toledo crew pool is tight.

Amtrak could have used an NS crew with an Amtrak pilot to 21st St. - except NS has none to spare!  Apparently, the Capitol ran with an NS crew from Toledo to Pittsburgh about a month ago after the Amtrak crew outlawed enroute.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:04 AM

The WB LSL and Capitol have gotten past a WB NS merchandise train and a WB intermodal train and are currently overtaking a CPR train on the fly, but are headed toward a clog west of Elkhart.

FIve WB trains at Porter and two at CP462, with two more on the way to the party - and a solid parade of eastbounds.

...its not for lack of trying!

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Posted by jeaton on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:23 AM

Fred Frailey

Jay, did they serve the lunch menu on train 30 yesterday?

Fred

 No they did not.  The only thing for passengers late in the day were the snack packages and water.  I think the lounge attendant sold out everything except booze.  Got to go.  Off to St Louis today.  See you there?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:43 AM

oltmannd

The WB LSL and Capitol have gotten past a WB NS merchandise train and a WB intermodal train and are currently overtaking a CPR train on the fly, but are headed toward a clog west of Elkhart.

FIve WB trains at Porter and two at CP462, with two more on the way to the party - and a solid parade of eastbounds.    ...its not for lack of trying!

 
Don thanks for the updates.  A running commentary certainly helps all to understand the jams that are occurring. 
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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:49 AM

Both trains are departing Elkhart following a couple intermodal trains ahead.  Looks like the IM trains are going to join the pile at Porter (now four trains deep), but once an EB intermodal gets by, there's a chance the two Amtrak trains can scoot by Porter on track 2.  We'll see.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:18 AM

oltmannd

Both trains are departing Elkhart following a couple intermodal trains ahead.  Looks like the IM trains are going to join the pile at Porter (now four trains deep), but once an EB intermodal gets by, there's a chance the two Amtrak trains can scoot by Porter on track 2.  We'll see.

Nope.  Routed into the clog at Porter.  That'll cost'em an hour each, at least.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:57 AM

oltmannd

oltmannd

Both trains are departing Elkhart following a couple intermodal trains ahead.  Looks like the IM trains are going to join the pile at Porter (now four trains deep), but once an EB intermodal gets by, there's a chance the two Amtrak trains can scoot by Porter on track 2.  We'll see.

Nope.  Routed into the clog at Porter.  That'll cost'em an hour each, at least.

Well,  yep!  The Capitol is going to back from one to two at CP466.  I suspect the LSL will follow suit as it's being held short of CP466.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:12 AM

Both trains completed zig-zag at 466...have route though Porter.  Looks like a relatively clean ride the rest of the way.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:57 AM

Have route and signals all the way to Englewood.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:22 PM

...and all the way to Amtrak at 21st St. LSL is following

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:37 PM

Any chance that non subscribers could access ATCS ?

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Posted by Fred Frailey on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:52 PM

ATCS Monitor is a Yahoo Group. Go there and ask for membership. The learning curve is steep, be forewarned.

Fred

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Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:36 PM

ACTS is also becoming obsolite as railroads go with satalite commuinication. We call the area between east Deshler and Galetea the "black hole".Csx has redone the folkston Ga area as others have told me.Getting back to NS they had 2 trains waiting in Archbold and no local came to town that I could tell.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by MP173 on Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:46 AM

Looks like another tough day for Amtrak.  

Train #48 shows a 930pm departure from Chicago, yet left South Bend at 626am...which is 6:30 late.  Currently it is west of Toledo and is tracking 6:14 late.

Train #29 is west of Waterloo, In and is "only" 1:44 late.  However, current speed is 0mph.

Train #49 is due into Waterloo in 3 minutes and is 1:14 late.  

Here in NW Indiana it appears to be another challenging day for NS and Amtrak.  33E has recrewed at MP479 with 23K right behind it.  Ahead past 482 train 31M is tying down it's train.  It sounds as if work has been cancelled today at the new crossover at 479.  There are "a number of short time eastbounds".

I have work to do, but the drama is intriguing.

Ed

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:39 PM

It's looking like P050 - the scenic tour through Indiana, the Ohio River Valley and Western Virginia - has become the 'reliable' route between Chicago and DC, even if the scheduled trip is longer.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, October 5, 2014 2:28 AM

A question for BALT  and Oltmann.

In the era of DPU operations could NS cut number of trains and save crews by taking 2 trains to same destination and combine them using DPU technology ?.  That train would certainly need to be able to not stop and block grade crossings.  On this route are there some train length limits that preclude some combinations ?  Realize that at present the RR would have to combine enough at same time to be able to keep route fluid.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:33 AM

I don't know what the NS train length restriction is, if any.  However, with the terrain from Elkhart to Chicago I am sure they are running maximum length trains and DPU is not necessary for their movement.  The down side to extremely long trains is that terminal facilities that were built in a bygone era can rarely handle these trains on a single track.  When trains have to used multiple tracks to be yarded or dispatched they must block the leads for extended periods of time thus preventing other movements from using those leads.  Length can be a double edged sword..

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, October 5, 2014 9:03 AM

BaltACD

.  Length can be a double edged sword..

 
Balt:  that was a concern here as well. 
 
Further thought came up with one possible way ?   A train "A" originates somewhere.  It has a 2 + 1 DPU set up with a single DPU on the end ( or some other combination ).  At a combining location a train "B" that is just powered on the front approaches train "A".  The engineer of  "A" makes a brake set of his train and the DPU.  "B" couples to the DPU of "A" checks his joint, sets "B" brakes to the same values as  "A"  and removes reverser..  Then someone connects "B"s barake line , main reservoir, & indendependent air lines.  27 point cable is attached as well.
 Then  "A"s engineer syncronizes to "B"s EOT.  "A" engineer commands DPU to idle fast or maybe even move to check  "B" loco(s) is working with the DPU.
A brake set and release of "B"s train and EOT is verified.  Then off the coombined goes. 
The only question of this is a complete brake inspection required ?
At some termination location this combined train can be quickly separated.  If at yard "B" just pulls into another receiving track.
 
Two head end only trains or two DPU trains would take significantly longer to initialize ?
 
Comments anyone ?
 
 
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, October 5, 2014 1:13 PM

Unconfirmed report is that NS is gaining  ( gained ? ) control of the Englewood diamond from METRA ?  Most METRA trains reported ( unconfirmed ) now  being routed onto the Englewood flyover.  If so then this may be one link in a chain to reduce delays on the NS route ?  If so METRA will have to wait on NS & Amtrak ? 

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Posted by MP173 on Monday, October 6, 2014 7:26 AM

Not sure if this was NS's fault yesterday but Amtrak yesterday at 540pm (about 10 hours late) was instructed to violate the hours of service rules and run a few miles and then hold for a recrew.

A couple of points...

1.  How in the world are they feeding people if the trains are that late?

2.  If the trainset is to be turned in Chicago, how are they maintaining any resemblence to normal timekeeping at this point in time.  They are almost to the point of annulling a train movement for a day and starting over, unless Amtrak has extra equipment.

Ed

 

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Monday, October 6, 2014 7:39 AM

MP173

2.  If the trainset is to be turned in Chicago, how are they maintaining any resemblence to normal timekeeping at this point in time.  They are almost to the point of annulling a train movement for a day and starting over, unless Amtrak has extra equipment.

Ed

 

Last night's Lake Shore departed Chicago at 2:45am, some 5 hours 15 minutes late.  It was last reported at Elkhart, more than 8 hours late.   The Capitol is listed as a service disruption, so I don't know if it even ran.

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, October 6, 2014 11:24 AM

blue streak 1

A question for BALT  and Oltmann.

In the era of DPU operations could NS cut number of trains and save crews by taking 2 trains to same destination and combine them using DPU technology ?.  That train would certainly need to be able to not stop and block grade crossings.  On this route are there some train length limits that preclude some combinations ?  Realize that at present the RR would have to combine enough at same time to be able to keep route fluid.

 

 

You can run ridiculously long trains between Chicago and Elkart w/o DPU.  It's really flat.  And, has been pointed out - there are already issues getting them in and out of yards.

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Monday, October 6, 2014 11:44 AM

Dakguy201

 

 
MP173

2.  If the trainset is to be turned in Chicago, how are they maintaining any resemblence to normal timekeeping at this point in time.  They are almost to the point of annulling a train movement for a day and starting over, unless Amtrak has extra equipment.

Ed

 

 

Last night's Lake Shore departed Chicago at 2:45am, some 5 hours 15 minutes late.  It was last reported at Elkhart, more than 8 hours late.   The Capitol is listed as a service disruption, so I don't know if it even ran.

 

Both WB trains vanished from Amtrak's map at Toledo this morning.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, October 6, 2014 12:04 PM

If these disruptions, whatever the cause, continue much longer, much of Amtrak's LD operation's future becomes doubtful, whether as transportation or a land cruise.   Lotsa fun being stuck on a train somewhere for many hours with no food, etc. and unable to even get off.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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