reports from diverse sources seem to indicate NS is having major problems on the northern tier CLE - Chicago. Man freights reported dying on the law. As well Lakeshore limited and Capitol Limited trains taking major hits. Was especially bad South bend - CHI but also too delays to from Cleveland.
Anyone know how soon the transferred crews will be available for service ? These delays appear to be worse than the past BNSF delays. The NS delays are actually occurring in a much shorter distance than the BNSF's delays ?
My employer is at MP 483 (just west of the Porter junction) and today there was an EB tied down in the Porter remote siding, an EB on track 1 which wasnt moving and a WB east of town. Three trains, no motion.
Got a feeling Blue Streak that you are correct...something is happening.
Ed
MP173 Got a feeling Blue Streak that you are correct...something is happening. Ed
Looks like trains started piling up yesterday, but looks pretty good right now. Things have been tight between Chicago and Pittsburgh for month now. Somehow, have managed to work out of some pretty bad looking situations fairly quickly. No meltdowns, just singed around the edges, so far.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Dispatcher just started moving some re-crews the past hour or so. Heard some crews discussing the current events...sounds like there are quite a few trains that are parked.
oltmannd Looks like trains started piling up yesterday, but looks pretty good right now. Things have been tight between Chicago and Pittsburgh for month now. Somehow, have managed to work out of some pretty bad looking situations fairly quickly. No meltdowns, just singed around the edges, so far.
As of last evening, on Dearborn, there were a couple parked for crew and several parked waiting for a slot to get through Chicago to a foreign connection. Not great, but not terrible,either.
We tend to forget there is a massive amount of work between Porter and Chicago on the line. All traffic thru CP 485 must slow to 25 mph. That creates issues.
When all the Amtrak related work is completed, this should be a pretty efficient piece of railroad.
The problem of backups between Chicago & Pittsburgh has worked to my benefit in that I have been able to catch Amtrak's "Capitol Limited" twice in the last 4 or 5 weeks. Both times on a late Sunday morning. It usuall rolls thru Pittsburgh very early in the morning. These have been the only time I've actually seen the bi-level & dome cars here.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
It is likely that M/W work is the cause of the delays. Camp cars have been parked near 47th Street for the last week or so and a welded rail train was held in Canal Street for a day or two and was tying up the main yesterday.
Does anyone know how long these long delays might last? I'm scheduled on the Capitol Limited eastbound during mid-October. If #30 is going to be way late I'll cancel my reservation and fly. Any advice?
In the past I found that summer construction delays were largely over by mid-October; what about this year? Any predictions?
Sorry about the font & size, etc. I've no idea how that happened.
As NS stock holders we may be more concerned than as an Amtrak supporter. The canary in the traffic delay mine is the delays to Amtrak. Chicago - Cleveland delays to Amtrak are approaching 5+ hours in both directions. That causes wonder as to what is happening to NS freight.
Some factors out of NS's control may be weather and the ability of western RRs to accept their trains. We certainly do not want the STB to get involved and force various bad ideas on NS due to shipper complaints ?
If western RRs are being affected maybe they can loan some construction crews to NS so it can speed up infrastructure improvements ?
NKP guySorry about the font & size, etc. I've no idea how that happened.
Please don't apologize. It is much easier on the eyes. Like this?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
amtrak was late today as well.The local in Bryan is having problems getting our stuff to us in Archbold. Ns has parked trains in a siding for days at a time.The dispatcher was asking a train to pick up crews and bring them to Elkhart..There were 5 trains stopped on track 1 between Butler Indiana and Bryan Ohio.Ns is doing signal replacement and other Mow work as well in the area.
stay safe
Joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
Amtrak 49 was due in to Chicago at 917am. It cleared Porter Indiana at 330 and arrived in Chicago at 442pm.
Right behind it was an Amtrak R9T also referred to as Amtrak 857 with a private car special. I will post a separate thread about that train.
Train was parked at Porter remote siding for second day in a row.
Look for Q003 to be a bigger train as a result of what is going on over on the NS.
UPS is not happy.....
An "expensive model collector"
Posts here and elsewhere seem to point that not just one item is causing the problem. Questions for those in the know ?
1. Are the parked trains mostly west bounds ? If so
a. Is NS able to move freights east ward ?
b. Are crews able to move freights east ?
c. Is the freight yard north of Englewood unable to take trains due to yard construction or is the construction complete ?
d. Is the Englewood flyover construction still causing delays ?
e. Unconfirmed reports on other sites say some revenue METRA trains are sometimes using one track over the flyover ? If so that might stop traffic below for testing and observation ? Anyone ?
f. Are the at grade diamonds going to stay in place for alternate routings or are they going to be removed ?
2. What happens to the west bound crews that die on the law ?
3. are UP, BNSF, and others RRs unable to accept some thru trains ?
4. If #3 why has NS not implemented some kind flow control to keep from jamming up the route ? The FAA does it all the time. It certainly happened with the fire at Chicago center the other day. Realize that some NS locations would quickly jam up due to lack of space ?
5. What long term and short term solutions has / will NS implement to mitigate the problem ?
6. Has NS considered asking Amtrak to combine the west bound LSL and Capitol at Toledo / Cleveland when they arrive close to the same time ? Some reports have both trains running on markers of each other?. This in exchange of more priority.
7. As well maybe combine either to a Michigan train at Porter ? Or two separate Michigan routes combine ?
8. East bound at Chicago not so easy unless departures are delayed for some reason ? Such as late connections ?
It's nice to know that UPS can raise a fuss about their delayed trains and shipments. Unfortunately for Amtrak, when I cancel my eastbound reservation out of Cleveland in order to fly, instead, they have no leverage with NS; after all, we're told, they're lucky to be allowed to use those tracks at all.
If one checks out the arrival stats for 29 & 30 and 48 & 49 it's obvious the problems are on NS exclusively west of Cleveland.
It's bad enough to have to drive in the middle of the night to Cleveland for a 1:45 AM departure, but to think the train won't arrive until 10:45 AM because of NS construction work is just awful. Yesterday's 48 arrived at Penn Station at one minute before midnight, something which ought to be disallowed under the Geneva Convention. What if you were making a connection in New York, or Washington, for that matter? How long before Amtrak permanently loses these passengers?
I thank my brother rail fans here for getting to the real reason for the abysmal arrival times in Cleveland. Now I can fly, arrive in NYC at the same hour #48 is supposed to, and not have to sit in a torture chair for 8 or 9 hours at the station waiting....waiting...waiting....
A question for ACY: When trains that are not supposed to serve dinner (48 & 30), what do you do for passengers when the train is running 5 or 7 or 9 hours late? Since it's an every night occurrence, is anyone planning for that and stocking the diner accordingly? Why not?
blue streak 1 6. Has NS considered asking Amtrak to combine the west bound LSL and Capitol at Toledo / Cleveland when they arrive close to the same time ? Some reports have both trains running on markers of each other?. This in exchange of more priority.
Interesting comment about Q003 being larger. It has always been around 2000 feet or less when I hear it on the scanner. Has UPS tendered most of its WB New Jersey - Chicago trailers to NS over the years?
The last two days there have been EBs parked in the Porter remote CP483-CP482. This creates a problem at my employer. While the train has split the crossing, the gates are down. All employee car traffic into and out of the plant, PLUS 53 foot semi tractor trailers must do the dance around the gates or else wait hours to legally proceed. I actually called NS yesterday and informed them. They immediately issued a "False partial activation warning" to trains. It was issued within 20 minutes of my call to the next train. Impressive, but...if they are going to split the crossing, then proceedures must be in place so the gates are not activated.
NS is also parking EB trains in the LaPorte siding at CP466. It is a mess both EB and WB.
MP173 Interesting comment about Q003 being larger. It has always been around 2000 feet or less when I hear it on the scanner. Has UPS tendered most of its WB New Jersey - Chicago trailers to NS over the years? The last two days there have been EBs parked in the Porter remote CP483-CP482. This creates a problem at my employer. While the train has split the crossing, the gates are down. All employee car traffic into and out of the plant, PLUS 53 foot semi tractor trailers must do the dance around the gates or else wait hours to legally proceed. I actually called NS yesterday and informed them. They immediately issued a "False partial activation warning" to trains. It was issued within 20 minutes of my call to the next train. Impressive, but...if they are going to split the crossing, then proceedures must be in place so the gates are not activated. NS is also parking EB trains in the LaPorte siding at CP466. It is a mess both EB and WB. Ed
Indicative that NS didn't leave the sections of the cut train clear of the close proximity crossing activation circuits, most likely in violation of NS Rules. When a crossing is cut the crossing protection is not supposed to be left actively operating.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
On Thursday I took Amtrak 30 Capitol Limited from Chicago to DC. Arrival yesterday afternoon was 6 hours late. I leave tomorrow afternoon to return on 29. I usually make this trip 2-3 times a year and never had a big problem with the occasional hour or two late. However, unless the current situation improves, my next trip out here will be by a different mode.
Oltmand may submit that NS is not at meltdown, but they are in the next thing to it.
Things I got from Amtrak crew members: "word is..." NS Chicago Line (Cleveland-Chicago) is handling 15 CBR trains a day each way. In spite of a hiring binge, crew shortage is a big factor. Something I thought was a stretch -a computer aid to enhance dispatching is causing some odd or "bad" decisions. For example, we were held 40 minutes 3 miles east of Elyria in a situation where we could have been held just a few miles east of the Cleveland Amtrak station with much less delay. (I don't usually make assumptions about a dispatcher's actions, but this one was from the Amtrak AC.)
Not all the delay is on NS. We were an hour ten late leaving Chicago waiting for the Toledo based Conductor to get off an 8 hour HOS required rest. According to Amtrak Train Status report the situation was several hours worse last night. There is a legal fix for that, assuming Amtrak is willing to spend a little more for train crew. I have my doubts.
At this point, I would advise against travel on the Capitol, Lake Shore, and Empire Builder, and would caution friends to be prepared for delays on most of the other trains.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Oltmannd
Some questions come to mind:.
I know I am not very familiar with this area, but the comments seem to indicate that there is possibly a 'software issue' in the area of train dispatch? NS, BNSF, CSX??
Is this related to the installation of new equipment for the PTC Installations?
Apparently, available rested crews are a problem? I know there are mentions of NS hiring T&E crews in this Thread?
Is the Chicago area, and its traffic patterns for the railroads , the problem? Would a By-pass around Chicago fix some of this?
1st off - don't believe Train & Engine crews about dispatching decisions about what could've or should've been done - they are not looking a the overall picture that the dispatcher has to operate with. T&E crews that try to 'self dispatch' their train frequently get themselves in big trouble with the assumptions they make and the reality they are suddenly facing.
I have no knowledge of what the NS is doing West of Cleveland from either a signal or track maintenance standpoint or what their crew situation is. I do know that P030 that left Chicago on the evening of the 26th came to CSX in Pittsburgh 10 hours and 30 minutes late and operating the train to Washington delayed a project critical to CSX's Gateway Intermodal enhancements.
BaltACD I do know that P030 that left Chicago on the evening of the 26th came to CSX in Pittsburgh 10 hours and 30 minutes late and operating the train to Washington delayed a project critical to CSX's Gateway Intermodal enhancements.
I do know that P030 that left Chicago on the evening of the 26th came to CSX in Pittsburgh 10 hours and 30 minutes late and operating the train to Washington delayed a project critical to CSX's Gateway Intermodal enhancements.
Yesterday (May 27th) I checked Amtrak status for 29 and 49 and both were about 1.5 hours late at Toledo. Hmm...almost a moral victory.
Fast forward to 1235pm and my wife and I are at the Chesterton (just east of Porter, CP482) European outdoor market and either 29 or 49 slams past going west. Assuming it was Amtrak 49 then the earliest it would have arrived in Chicago would have been 200pm or 4.5 hours late. It lost 3 hours between Toledo and Chesterton, approximately 200 miles.
NS weekly carloading of petroleum for week of Sept 14th was 4502 (45 loaded trains - 6.5 trains per day or 13 including empties). That compares to 2837 a year ago. or 4 per day - 8 including empties.
Lots of oil, but not 15 per day each way....at least not yet.
Amtrak 29 & 30 Capitol Limited run with Super Liners. The Lake Shore uses single level equipment.
As I noted "word is..." .
Balt
I agree that one can't usually get the get the "big picture" when trying to asses the quality of the dispatching from the train. The circumstances of the incident I described were different and in this case I would stick with my view.
By the way, as I am watching it, 29 and 30 are making good time between Pittsburgh and Washington.
Is the less " time lost " on NS due to no maintenance going on this weekend ? As well the CSX part of routes actually making up a few minutes ?
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