There is some truth to the NS using a different dispatching mode, movement planner as it is called.
http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/bizns/whistle-post/entering-the-nextgeneration.html
BaltACD, picture a crappier version of "automatic mode" with an edict to use it.
An "expensive model collector"
Some of the NS dispatchers that I have talked to have nothing good to say about it.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
But the new dispatching software went into effect system wide eleven months ago according to the link. Is it possible that the traffic was close to saturation and just a few percentage points increase in traffic swamped it?
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of Covington But the new dispatching software went into effect system wide eleven months ago according to the link. Is it possible that the traffic was close to saturation and just a few percentage points increase in traffic swamped it?
Very possible. Very, very possible.
The system was shut down this evening between 5pm-6pm. That occurs frequently...not sure if it is for regular maintenance or not, but the movements must be lined up before 5pm or else it doesnt occur.
Lots of recrews in NW Indiana this evening.
Ed
MP173 The system was shut down this evening between 5pm-6pm. That occurs frequently...not sure if it is for regular maintenance or not, but the movements must be lined up before 5pm or else it doesnt occur. Lots of recrews in NW Indiana this evening. Ed
New control points and revised signals at existing control points require software changes to the computers controlling the various territories. Despite testing prior to putting software changes into production - sometimes things don't work as intended. As the carriers progress toward implementing PTC, more and more software and signal changes are in the offing for all carriers.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
jeatonEd. Are you saying that there can be no changes to a dispatch lineup during the down time??
If NS is like any of the other railroads with Computer assisted Dispatching - no computer, no protection, no signals.
It is possible to line the route for a train - once the train knocks the signals down they cannot be relined for a following train without the assistance of the computer.
BaltACD It is possible to line the route for a train - once the train knocks the signals down they cannot be relined for a following train without the assistance of the computer.
blue streak 11. Are the parked trains mostly west bounds ?
yes
blue streak 1a. Is NS able to move freights east ward ?
not without crews...they just aren't held on the main.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Don't trust that link.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
blue streak 1Is it true that Amtrak has procedures for signal maintainers to go to signal bungalows and operate CPs ? That is if CETE is down ?
When I was dispatching, any interlocking could be operated locally. Probably the same for all railroads, I'd imagine.
blue streak 12. What happens to the west bound crews that die on the law ?
They tie down where they are and wait for rested crews.
blue streak 13. are UP, BNSF, and others RRs unable to accept some thru trains ?
At times.
blue streak 14. If #3 why has NS not implemented some kind flow control to keep from jamming up the route ? The FAA does it all the time. It certainly happened with the fire at Chicago center the other day. Realize that some NS locations would quickly jam up due to lack of space ?
They do. Strategies employed include overheading trains to other locations e.g. sending a westbound Elkhart train to Conway. Or, holding at train deeper in the network. Also, the CTCO office coordinates movements between all railroads in Chicago and tries to keep Chicago itself fluid.
blue streak 15. What long term and short term solutions has / will NS implement to mitigate the problem ?
Try to get employees to take incentive to temporarily work the Chicago Lines. Hire more crews. Considering it takes over a year to get a guy from the street to a locomotive cab, this problem might linger for a while.
blue streak 16. Has NS considered asking Amtrak to combine the west bound LSL and Capitol at Toledo / Cleveland when they arrive close to the same time ? Some reports have both trains running on markers of each other?. This in exchange of more priority.
Not that I've heard. Having trains sit and switch is probably worse than running on each other's markers.
n012944 There is some truth to the NS using a different dispatching mode, movement planner as it is called. http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/bizns/whistle-post/entering-the-nextgeneration.html Some of the NS dispatchers that I have talked to have nothing good to say about it. BaltACD, picture a crappier version of "automatic mode" with an edict to use it.
Movement planner actually works pretty well. I can understand why dispatchers don't like it, though. Nobody likes to be called "stupid".
http://youtu.be/r1rKnTY16Go
greyhounds Paul of Covington But the new dispatching software went into effect system wide eleven months ago according to the link. Is it possible that the traffic was close to saturation and just a few percentage points increase in traffic swamped it? Very possible. Very, very possible.
Possible, but incorrect.
Why are the RRs putting all their eggs in one computer (EGG) basket ?
Because creating a computer controlled dispatching system is difficult, making multiple systems that have to talk to each other is more difficult.
This poster wonders that if there is no signal from the computer after a certain time that the signal system defaults to automatic block.
Not necessary, CTC is already automatic block between control points.
Doesn't automatic block take precedence over any illegal commands ?
There are no "illegal commands", its that there are NO commands. What you are missing is that the dispatchers can line up a route for miles in front of a train. The train will operate on those signals until it reaches the end of the lined route. What happens during an outage is you can't line new routes, can't remotely line switch and you can't change existing routes.
Is it true that Amtrak has procedures for signal maintainers to go to signal bungalows and operate CPs ? That is if CETE is down ?
Every railroad has procedures for the signal maintainers to operate a CP manually. The problem is that a warm start , is an entire dispatching region which will cover hundreds of CP's. Cops can manually flag people through and intersection when the traffic lights are out, but they can't cover every intersection in a city at the same time. We don't know what they were doing with the tests. If they were cutting over new equipment and testing it, then they might need to keep it on automatic to test it. The other consideration is once you go to manual, the dispatcher has to record and authorize all train movements manually. Since the systems aren't set up to do that, its a complete one-off operation, greatly increasing risk.
A further thought if a fire in any part of a dispatch center occurs what then ? The present Aurora (CHI ) center fire results are a point. Look at MNRR problems in the bungalow fire at Cos Cob.
Railroads have various levels of redundancy and emergency recovery. If this was a planned outage/upgrade, then it wasn't an "emergency" and if they were changing things then swapping over to a back up system wouldn't work, they would still have to make the changes and test them. When software changes are pushed out to your PC, its not uncommon for your computer to have to be rebooted/restarted for the changes to take effect. Same thing.
I think the NS bought the GE Harris software.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
When my carrier went from centralized dispatching to distributed dispatching, each distributed dispatching center has computer horsepower capable of running the entire system. If necessary for weather or other reasons to relocate one of the distributed sites, it can be set up at it's nearest operative neighbor and continue operating once qualified dispatchers are in place.
Even when the system was centralized there was a off site, out of the area backup site so the the dispatching function could be continued.
In addition to the computer to line signals, you also need communications horsepower for radio and telephone contact to run a dispatching center, be that distributed or centralized.
Relocating a dispatching center is not and will not be a seamless action.
dehusmanI think the NS bought the GE Harris software.
Yes. More than that, actually. NS replaced all their dispatching systems of various stripes with Harris/GE system called UTCS for "Unified Train Control System". GE/Harris weren't selling an "off the shelf" system. They developed it as they went along.
One of the main features was that any territory could be controlled from any desk in the system. Should a dispatching office have to be evacuated, the railroad could be still be dispatched.
The movement planner is gravy. It's more than a meet/pass planner. It actually looks at all the trains on the network and plans their movement all the way to the train's termination, trying to minimize delays, weighted by train type. It knows train consists and actually does TPC calculations to figure out realistic running times. If there is a hot intermodal train running way ahead, meeting a merchandise train that is running late, it might put the intermodal train in the hole for the merchandise train. This was a hard sell to dispatchers and chiefs who have been trained to always honor train priority and get the hot trains off their division as fast as possible - sometime in detriment to the rest of the trains on their division.
BTW, Amtrak trains have the absolute highest prority and the most weight for their delay minutes. I just watched the movement planner move both the Capitol and LSL around a merchandise train, past a premium intermodal train and an empty oil train and by a loaded oil train with great precision. They are going to run up against a Merchandise train on the west side of Elkhart and there is congestion at Porter - 4 WB and 4 EB trains of various stripes. The movement planner has not lined any routes, yet.
oltmanndThey are going to run up against a Merchandise train on the west side of Elkhart
Now there is a plan to get the Amtrak trains by the merchandise train ahead.
it will be interesting to hear Jeaton's report on the Capital Ltd. He indicated CSX delivered to NS on time in Pittsburgh. At Toledo train 29 was 2:32 late. It is due to depart Elkhart NOW 9:38am cst which is 3:49 late.
Amtrak is showing an estimated time of arrival at CUS at 1117am which will make it 2:32 late. That will be quite an accomplishment if they can makeup that time. My 1967 Official Guide shows Elkhart to Chicago as 100.5 miles. If Amtrak and NS can peal off 100.5 miles in 99 minutes with stops in South Bend that will be an amazing dispatch.
CP482 (Porter) into Chicago is a challenge and it sounds like it is today.
On a related topic...I am hearing a number of recrews which are not qualified for the destination. For example...twice over the weekend trains destined for Proviso Yard were recrewed but the crews were not qualified for Proviso.
What is the proceedure when recrews are established. Is there any control over determining if the crew can actually handle the train? In one instance the train was recrewed again and the original recrew stayed on the train in order to be qualified....or so I heard.
Interesting operational issue - how are crews matched up with the destination of the train or is it simply first available crew?
Regarding the shutdown yesterday, it was interesting to hear the dispatcher "urge" a nearly out of service train to clear the mainline before 5pm shutdown. This was on single line operation on NKP.
Lots of interesting chatter these days.
The crews and dispatchers seem to be handling this pretty well, at least on the radio.
If you think this is bad...consider the issues of flying into Chicago this past weekend!
Update...
"single tracking from CP491 to 501 (Miller siding) to Buffington (East Chicago) and a broken bridge ahead (must be the lift bridge at Calumet River MP509.
Amtraks 371 and 365 are affected.
MP173 Update... "single tracking from CP491 to 501 (Miller siding) to Buffington (East Chicago) and a broken bridge ahead (must be the lift bridge at Calumet River MP509. Amtraks 371 and 365 are affected.
All tracks between CP491 and CP501 are in service...and occupied with moving trains at the moment.
Looks like a mess at CP448. Both Amtrak trains west of interlocking on #1 behind empty oil cans that haven't moved all morning for reasons unknown. Mechandise train EB stopped on #2. WB merchandise train WB stopped on #1. Plan is for everything to fleet WB on #1, EB on #2, but no routes or signals up. Empty oil train is gumming things up.
Premium intermodal train now stuck behind WB merch train at CP448.
EB merch train now cleared in behind both Amtrak trains. Whole deal depends on getting the oil cans at CP462 moving.
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