Union Pacific can't guard every foot of their trackage and as far as I'm aware, we don't know if there were even any personnel present outside of aboard the trains themselves.
And even if there was an employee here like a police officer, it's still personal responsibility to not be looking into a viewfinder while standing on the track. And it's against the law to start with to even trespass on to the track. And someone else said, if I'm not mistaken, that there's even no trespassing signs posted here.
Folks need to start taking responsibility for themselves. Most of the world is in the situation it's in today, including how limited our access is to what we love so much which is constantly on the decrease, because people won't take responsibility for their own actions.
Chris30 What about the responsibilty of the Union Pacific Railroad? While this individual was clearly not responsible for their own actions, the UP should also be held accountable in a situation like this. The UP has a verly long and proud tradition of running classic steam engines that draw large crowds. From what we see in this video they look like amatuers in crowd control. Based on their experience of dealing with large crowds related to their steam engines they, the railroad in general, should be embarassed by what we see in this video. The individual who almost got struck by the approaching freight train should never have been in that position to begn with. This is a video that the UP can use to train its' employees about the dangerous situations that persons not working for the railroad will place themselves in when on railroad property either legally or trespassing. The UP should also take into consideration that better planning and communication is needed whenever and wherever one of their steam engines travels to ensure the safety of the general public. In other words... don't let 'em be stupid even if they want to! CC
What about the responsibilty of the Union Pacific Railroad?
While this individual was clearly not responsible for their own actions, the UP should also be held accountable in a situation like this. The UP has a verly long and proud tradition of running classic steam engines that draw large crowds. From what we see in this video they look like amatuers in crowd control. Based on their experience of dealing with large crowds related to their steam engines they, the railroad in general, should be embarassed by what we see in this video. The individual who almost got struck by the approaching freight train should never have been in that position to begn with.
This is a video that the UP can use to train its' employees about the dangerous situations that persons not working for the railroad will place themselves in when on railroad property either legally or trespassing. The UP should also take into consideration that better planning and communication is needed whenever and wherever one of their steam engines travels to ensure the safety of the general public. In other words... don't let 'em be stupid even if they want to!
CC
Yes, it is common sense that if you run a big steam locomotive intended only for the purpose of being a special attraction that people are going to be attracted and swarm onto the property. There is plenty of historical precedent to know how that works. So you either fence it off or post personnel to control the crowds.
A railroad main purpose is to make money. UP and NS have been very nice to us and have had steam programs and heritage locomotives. However, they are not going to hire extra employees to keep stupid people away from the tracks, nor are they going to put up barriers. That would be expensive for them, and take away from profits. Some investors are probably annoyed about the money being spent on this already. If a lot more money has to be spent for crowd control, many investors will be angry and want UP to cancel the program.
UP shouldn't have to keep people off the right of way. It is UP's property, those people are trespassing. Let's say you get this cool new autonomous lawn mower and use it on your front yard. The neighbors, and people passing by are probably going to stop and look. Then there are the idots that will trespass on to your property, and get in the way, and could get injured. Should you have to put up a barrier and stand guard to protect the idiots? No, you would be sitting on your porch or inside your house. Why should it be different for UP?
Common sense: Big train weighing thousands of tons traveling 10mph versus you 150 pounds. Train going to win everytime. Trains travel on tracks and come at anytime. Therefore stay off the tracks. Simple.
If you can't understand that and over 10 years old, you deserve to get hit. You are a problem for everyone. Darwinism needs to sort out the problem.
Euclid Yes, it is common sense that if you run a big steam locomotive intended only for the purpose of being a special attraction that people are going to be attracted and swarm onto the property. There is plenty of historical precedent to know how that works. So you either fence it off or post personnel to control the crowds.
The two options you give are both expensive. UP would cancel the program if they had to do that, since it would cost them too much.
During the government shutdown, the government used your options and ended up spending a ton of money. It probably cost more to keep people out than to have the parks open.
I have always felt that U.P., and the other RR's that have run a steam program, have missed an ideal P.R. tool when running the steamers through the larger towns and at specific stops. I even suggested it to U.P. after I saw the mob-"street fair" event when the Challenger came through here many years ago.
They really need to station a person on the top of a step ladder with a bull horn to EDUCATE the crowd waiting for the special train.
They could explain what the trains are doing that come through while the people are waiting, explain what cargo the carry, where they are going, etc., and why people should stay off the tracks and not try to beat a train at a crossing.
They could warn people to stand well back from the tracks at all times because a train can come from any direction at any time. (Especially the idiot that took up a position in the middle of the track, with his camera up to his face waiting for the train, 2 hours before the train was even expected! He had to be HIT HARD on his shoulder by a Police Officer before he would move out of the way of the train BEHIND him!)
They could TEACH parents to not allow and (especially not encourage) children to "tight-rope-walk" on the rails. (I was aghast at the number of parents holding their kids hands to help them walk on a rail at that utter "Carnival atmosphere" waiting for the Challenger!)
They could explain when the special train might be expected, as well as explain where it will stop (if it is supposed to) and why the public should stay back so the workers can do their duties servicing the engine and what and why they are servicing it.
They could give the history of the company and why the steam program is important.
I bet they could even get some good, proud employees to VOLUNTEER to take on the task of "event coordinators" for free just so they could show off their employer and their own work.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Sam: I think you are onto something. Volunteers run the Spike @ North Platte. They are more than happy to tell the stories and show the features over and over!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Semper Vaporo I have always felt that U.P., and the other RR's that have run a steam program, have missed an ideal P.R. tool when running the steamers through the larger towns and at specific stops. I even suggested it to U.P. after I saw the mob-"street fair" event when the Challenger came through here many years ago. They really need to station a person on the top of a step ladder with a bull horn to EDUCATE the crowd waiting for the special train. They could explain what the trains are doing that come through while the people are waiting, explain what cargo the carry, where they are going, etc., and why people should stay off the tracks and not try to beat a train at a crossing. They could warn people to stand well back from the tracks at all times because a train can come from any direction at any time. (Especially the idiot that took up a position in the middle of the track, with his camera up to his face waiting for the train, 2 hours before the train was even expected! He had to be HIT HARD on his shoulder by a Police Officer before he would move out of the way of the train BEHIND him!) They could TEACH parents to not allow and (especially not encourage) children to "tight-rope-walk" on the rails. (I was aghast at the number of parents holding their kids hands to help them walk on a rail at that utter "Carnival atmosphere" waiting for the Challenger!) They could explain when the special train might be expected, as well as explain where it will stop (if it is supposed to) and why the public should stay back so the workers can do their duties servicing the engine and what and why they are servicing it. They could give the history of the company and why the steam program is important. I bet they could even get some good, proud employees to VOLUNTEER to take on the task of "event coordinators" for free just so they could show off their employer and their own work.
Great idea! You can also use the idiots that didn't follow the safety rules and got hit as an example of how deadly a train is. There will still be the idiots who don't listen and break the safety rules, but they will deserve to get hit.
The parents you talk about are complete idiots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idiots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idiots don't create more idiots that are worse.
KyleGreat idea! You can also use the idots that didn't follow the safety rules and got hit as an example of how deadly a train is. There will still be the idots who don't listen and break the safety rules, but they will deserve to get hit. The parents you talk about are complete idots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idots don't create more idots that are worse.
The parents you talk about are complete idots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idots don't create more idots that are worse.
Kyle,
So how is the problem supposed to get solved if U.P. should not have to solve it? In the video, we see at least sixteen idiots, and more showed up as the train moved by. Yet Darwinism did not get rid of any of them. Apparently all the idiots had angels on their shoulders. So how do you solve the problem?
I didn't say it would CURE the problem of idiots, I said it would be a great P.R. tool for the company. It is only a side effect that it MIGHT prevent a casualty at the time or in the future. I think it could also be a great adjunct to, or even a part of, "Operation Life Saver" that the RRs seem to be unable to really promote well.
As for Darwinism... That is bothering me. I know that I sometimes would like to eradicate from the earth some scum that are around these days, but I find it cruel and insensitive to advocate letting the idiots kill themselves off. At what point do you draw the line in this form of Darwinism being advocated? How do you define "idiot"? That young lady that was killed in the movie production accident; was she an idiot for being on a train trestle with a bed on the track? Some will say, "Yes"... But are you saying "good riddance to her", too?
Semper...,your comments on "Darwinism" are well put.
Johnny
Semper Vaporo I didn't say it would CURE the problem of idiots, I said it would be a great P.R. tool for the company. It is only a side effect that it MIGHT prevent a casualty at the time or in the future. I think it could also be a great adjunct to, or even a part of, "Operation Life Saver" that the RRs seem to be unable to really promote well. As for Darwinism... That is bothering me. I know that I sometimes would like to eradicate from the earth some scum that are around these days, but I find it cruel and insensitive to advocate letting the idiots kill themselves off. At what point do you draw the line in this form of Darwinism being advocated? How do you define "idiot"? That young lady that was killed in the movie production accident; was she an idiot for being on a train trestle with a bed on the track? Some will say, "Yes"... But are you saying "good riddance to her", too?
Just to clarify, I was responding to Kyle. He is hanging his hat on Darwinism to get the job done. I am not advocating Darwinism. I don't even agree with Darwin.
Kyle is a Darwinism booster, and I think he has overwhelming support in the railfan community, judging by the comments following every grade crossing crash.
Semper Vaporo . As for Darwinism... That is bothering me. I know that I sometimes would like to eradicate from the earth some scum that are around these days, but I find it cruel and insensitive to advocate letting the idiots kill themselves off. At what point do you draw the line in this form of Darwinism being advocated? How do you define "idiot"? That young lady that was killed in the movie production accident; was she an idiot for being on a train trestle with a bed on the track? Some will say, "Yes"... But are you saying "good riddance to her", too?
.
Idiocy is situational - placed in the wrong situation, MENSA members can be functional idiots.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
EuclidSo how is the problem supposed to get solved if U.P. should not have to solve it?
No matter what UP might be able to attempt to mitigate the problem, there's always going to be one person (at least) who feels that even physical restrictions don't apply to them - a fence, f'rinstance, would just be another obstacle to overcome in their quest to get "that shot."
As suggested earlier - a responsible "chaperone" to organize a photo line might have done much to prevent the incident in question. Even a single wire hung between fence posts, together with in-person guidance, could have made a difference.
Obviously supervision can't be everywhere, and if these judgement-challenged folks find that their desired activities are being blocked, they'll just go somewhere that there isn't any supervision (personal or physical) and probably get into trouble there.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 EuclidSo how is the problem supposed to get solved if U.P. should not have to solve it? No matter what UP might be able to attempt to mitigate the problem, there's always going to be one person (at least) who feels that even physical restrictions don't apply to them - a fence, f'rinstance, would just be another obstacle to overcome in their quest to get "that shot." As suggested earlier - a responsible "chaperone" to organize a photo line might have done much to prevent the incident in question. Even a single wire hung between fence posts, together with in-person guidance, could have made a difference. Obviously supervision can't be everywhere, and if these judgement-challenged folks find that their desired activities are being blocked, they'll just go somewhere that there isn't any supervision (personal or physical) and probably get into trouble there.
My point was directed to Kyle who says that everyone trespassing is an idiot and the company should not do anything about it because they don’t have to. He says the problem is not the fault of U.P. It is the fault of idiots. Unlike Kyle, I believe that U.P. could solve the problem and is willing to make the effort. I don’t think U.P. embraces Kyle’s reliance on Darwinism to solve the problem.
However, my original point was the question of why the U.P. apparently made no effort to control the trespassing and risk taking by people that any railroad company would expect under the circumstances of running what amounts to an entertainment venue. I am really surprised that they let that train roll through the crowd under the circumstances.
I’ll bet that don’t happen again.
Kyle Great idea! You can also use the idots that didn't follow the safety rules and got hit as an example of how deadly a train is. There will still be the idots who don't listen and break the safety rules, but they will deserve to get hit. The parents you talk about are complete idots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idots don't create more idots that are worse.
Great idea! You can also use the idots that didn't follow the safety rules and got hit as an example of how deadly a train is. There will still be the idots who don't listen and break the safety rules, but they will deserve to get hit.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
The videographer should at least be required to read this detailed account of what a train will do to a human body. The newspapers just don't write 'em like this any more. CP&StL #19 sure done this guy in good.
Euclid KyleGreat idea! You can also use the idiots that didn't follow the safety rules and got hit as an example of how deadly a train is. There will still be the idiots who don't listen and break the safety rules, but they will deserve to get hit. The parents you talk about are complete idots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idiots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idiots don't create more idiots that are worse. Kyle, So how is the problem supposed to get solved if U.P. should not have to solve it? In the video, we see at least sixteen idiots, and more showed up as the train moved by. Yet Darwinism did not get rid of any of them. Apparently all the idiots had angels on their shoulders. So how do you solve the problem?
KyleGreat idea! You can also use the idiots that didn't follow the safety rules and got hit as an example of how deadly a train is. There will still be the idiots who don't listen and break the safety rules, but they will deserve to get hit. The parents you talk about are complete idots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idiots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idiots don't create more idiots that are worse.
The parents you talk about are complete idots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idiots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idiots don't create more idiots that are worse.
Darwinism will solve it. The biggest idiot was the person who kept filming as he/she was picked up and moved. The rest were stupid, but were at least smart enough to move out of the way. Darwinism would have worked, but the guy who saved the idiot interfered. However that guy won't always be around so eventually Darwinism will get the idiot. As for the other stupid people, they will make a mistake one time and Darwinism will get them. Not everyone was standing right next to the tracks, it was just a few idiots. Had the train been going faster Darwinism would have also done its job.
I'm not too sure if anyone else agrees but it appears to me that Kyle places a low value on human life other than his own.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'm not too sure if anyone else agrees but it appears to me that Kyle places a low value on human life other than his own.
eolafanWe must all remember that there are a finite number of railroads and an even smaller number that host events like this and steam fan trips and heritage locomotives...BUT there are an INFINITE number of morons out here that can ruin the fun and enjoyment for us all.
And it only takes one...
I am sure that U.P. is keenly aware of this near-miss incident. I expect that it is a wakeup call for them, and they are now going to great effort to make sure it does not happen again. It appears that the only U.P. personnel on site were the crews on the two trains, and I am sure they have been interviewed in detail to discuss what they did and could have done.
No railroad company is going to let its investment in a steam program to go down the drain just because of the behavior of one person. They realize that they must control behavior around the steam attraction.
I would say that the fate of the U.P. steam program is more likely to be affected by whims of changing management rather than the mistakes of fans. Although, the two factors could combine to have an effect.
Along with all the other discussion, we should give thanks to and for the person who lifted the videographer (possibly autistic?) out of harms way.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Deggesty(possibly autistic?)
A distinct possibility. And if not autistic, perhaps having some other disability. Such folks seem to have a tremendous interest in trains - I've seen it myself while working our trains.
On the location, I would opine that many of the folks at that crossing chose it because[/u] there was no fence or other supervision, so there would be no one to hinder getting "their shot."
Deggesty Along with all the other discussion, we should give thanks to and for the person who lifted the videographer (possibly autistic?) out of harms way.
Well, if that kid was autistic then whoever brought him there ( Dad, Uncle Joe, Big Brother) and didn't pay strict attention to where he was and what he was doing needs to have his butt kicked so hard his ears'll ring for a week.
Lady Firestorm and I have taken my sisters kids out for the day several times. You think our eyes ever left them for a second?
Kyle was just being "cutsey" and not doing well. I-Dot was what he was using instead of the normal terminology. I think he has been on here before and just likes to see what he can stir up. I asked him once, a long time ago, about his "rage" and never got an answer.
Watched it several times…the kid, and he is a kid, 14 maybe 15 or so, isn’t autistic, he is just jacked up six ways to Sunday about the locomotive, and totally unaware of what is going on behind him.
If he got there under his own power, say on his bike, there is a good chance his parents might tan his hide if they see this, but if his parents brought him, they should be chastised for not keeping him off the ROW.
Where I come from, while we expect kids to behave up to a certain level, we also expect them to behave like kids and do dumb stuff.
We don’t apply the same level of expectation to kids as we do adults.
Like ACY said, he’s a kid, and deserves to be educated, not executed.
By the way, this was shot with a telephoto lens, and such lenses tend to shorten the apparent depth of field, the train was not as close to the kid as it seems….close enough to be scary, but the guy who picked him up had the time to do so, set him down and turn away before the train gets to the spot he was standing.
Doesn’t make the kids behavior right or okay, but considering where he is and what he, and what all the others are doing, it explains a lot.
The train is not traveling all that fast, yard speed, maybe 10 mph, and while the audio is not all that great, I am thinking I hear him making a reduction, even if he isn’t, he was probably right about to plug it if the kid didn’t move; I doubt he would have hit him if it was avoidable.
And if he had to do that, trust me, the kid would have a hard time recovering his phone from where the engineer would have placed it!
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