schlimm "Sparta must be regarded as the first ethnic state. The exposure of the sick, weak, deformed children, in short, their destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most pathological subject at any price in order subsequently to breed a race of degenerates burdened with illnesses." (1928) The author is obvious; the philosophy is what Kyle espouses. Since our moderators choose to permit this form of political expression, yet delete other forms, it is the duty of those of us to oppose this vile dangerous nonsense posing as "science" by not engaging it but exposing his "social darwinism" for what it is: a pathetic rationalization of eliminating those who one labels as "weak."
"Sparta must be regarded as the first ethnic state. The exposure of the sick, weak, deformed children, in short, their destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most pathological subject at any price in order subsequently to breed a race of degenerates burdened with illnesses." (1928)
The author is obvious; the philosophy is what Kyle espouses. Since our moderators choose to permit this form of political expression, yet delete other forms, it is the duty of those of us to oppose this vile dangerous nonsense posing as "science" by not engaging it but exposing his "social darwinism" for what it is: a pathetic rationalization of eliminating those who one labels as "weak."
schlimm, please show me where did Kyle espouse exposing "the sick, weak, deformed children" or 'eliminating those who one labels as "weak."'? I already went through every page of this thread twice, and I don't see it. I have seen things to the effect of "don't stop weakminded adults from hurting or killing themselves", but I don't remember seeing what you're accusing him of saying.
And was the author Hitler? Do I get a prize if I guessed the right answer?
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
gardendance schlimm, please show me where did Kyle espouse exposing "the sick, weak, deformed children" or 'eliminating those who one labels as "weak."'? I already went through every page of this thread twice, and I don't see it. I have seen things to the effect of "don't stop weakminded adults from hurting or killing themselves", but I don't remember seeing what you're accusing him of saying. And was the author Hitler? Do I get a prize if I guessed the right answer?
I suggest you read my earlier response to your question. The answer lies in inferential reading.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm You totally miss the underlying philosophy by only distinguishing between an active program as opposed to a passive one. The message in both is that society is somehow better off by the elimination of certain groups. In this case, it is the so-called idiots that are careless around trains. I, for one, find such a message unacceptable, whoever espouses it.
You totally miss the underlying philosophy by only distinguishing between an active program as opposed to a passive one. The message in both is that society is somehow better off by the elimination of certain groups. In this case, it is the so-called idiots that are careless around trains. I, for one, find such a message unacceptable, whoever espouses it.
Is this the earlier response to which you refer? Yes, the answer to "where did he say this" would lie in inferential reading IF the definition of "said" is "I read between the lines and applied my own opinion of what I thought he said and put words into his mouth to come up with something he didn't say".
gardendance- There's really no reason to read between the lines. You just have to read what is written. Are you saying you defend the idea that it's alright to let people get hit and killed by trains because Kyle says they are idiots? Do you agree with Kyle suggesting that it would be a good idea if the folks he considers to be idiots- and their parents, which he considers to be idiots- get run over by a train? Are you in agreement with Kyle that the people he calls idiots are that way because he thinks their parents are idiots, and that the world would be better off if they were dead? All of the above are to be found in Kyle's previous posts on this thread, some of which he is now trying to disavow. Why anyone would want to defend those types of reasoning is a little bit creepy. What Kyle is doing would be found in chapter 1 of the book The Idiot's guide to trolling the internet. (Sorry man, the made me do it. )He's throwing firebombs out to see if he can get the crowd stirred up and biting at each other. If he's lucky, he can find someone to defend his *honor*, so he can play the victim. Last night, our local TV news had a story about a little boy who was given less than a 1/1,000,000 of being born alive. Besides major medical problems, he was a preemie, who surprised the doctors just by being alive. I hope when Kyle grows up, he never has to deal with something like that as a parent.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Euclid One hazard around railroad tracks that is not always obvious is the effect of train noise obscuring the sound of another train that you are not aware of. People normally rely on their hearing as backup warning rather than constantly shifting their visual attention to watch for trains. Like the video in the OP, here is another one showing the same loss of audio warning by someone who is not aware of the loss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHmF7_bNHa0
One hazard around railroad tracks that is not always obvious is the effect of train noise obscuring the sound of another train that you are not aware of. People normally rely on their hearing as backup warning rather than constantly shifting their visual attention to watch for trains.
Like the video in the OP, here is another one showing the same loss of audio warning by someone who is not aware of the loss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHmF7_bNHa0
If you don't know a train is coming, and you aren't on the tracks, then will survive everytime unless there is a derailment. The people with the common sense understand that. Bottom line, people need to know to stay off the tracks. The general public needs to be educated. Those that have been educated and continue to be on the tracks are responsible for their actions and the coniquences.
There are the educated, and uneducated. They'd uneducated need to be taught. The educated then sort themselves into two groups, those with common sense and idiots. The people with common sense will survive, the idiots will be injured or die.
Unfortuantely the legal system is screwed up so that instead of the idiots having to take responsibility, others have to take the responsibility. As a result everyone suffers.
gardendanceIs this the earlier response to which you refer? Yes, the answer to "where did he say this" would lie in inferential reading IF the definition of "said" is "I read between the lines and applied my own opinion of what I thought he said and put words into his mouth to come up with something he didn't say".
Murphy Siding gardendance- There's really no reason to read between the lines. You just have to read what is written. Are you saying you defend the idea that it's alright to let people get hit and killed by trains because Kyle says they are idiots? Do you agree with Kyle suggesting that it would be a good idea if the folks he considers to be idiots- and their parents, which he considers to be idiots- get run over by a train? Are you in agreement with Kyle that the people he calls idiots are that way because he thinks their parents are idiots, and that the world would be better off if they were dead? All of the above are to be found in Kyle's previous posts on this thread, some of which he is now trying to disavow. Why anyone would want to defend those types of reasoning is a little bit creepy. What Kyle is doing would be found in chapter 1 of the book The Idiot's guide to trolling the internet. (Sorry man, the made me do it. )He's throwing firebombs out to see if he can get the crowd stirred up and biting at each other. If he's lucky, he can find someone to defend his *honor*, so he can play the victim. Last night, our local TV news had a story about a little boy who was given less than a 1/1,000,000 of being born alive. Besides major medical problems, he was a preemie, who surprised the doctors just by being alive. I hope when Kyle grows up, he never has to deal with something like that as a parent.
The point is that idiots have already getting killed, and the current "solution" is to take away everyone's freedoms. Look at the lady who was being chased by police and ran into the side of a train and them got hit by another. Also, look at websites like railpictures.net, and see all of the idiots photographed, also note how there are Darwinism awards. People agree with me.
By calling me a troll and attacking me and not focusing on my ideas and logic, you are showing weakness in your defense. You are showing us you know you are losing ground and are resorting to desperate measures to try to prove your point. If your argument was sound, you wouldn't have to attack an insult the other person. I was trying to be nice, I wasn't playing victim. I attempted to respectfully ask you to stop your childish behavior of namecalling.
KyleMurphy Siding gardendance- There's really no reason to read between the lines. You just have to read what is written. Are you saying you defend the idea that it's alright to let people get hit and killed by trains because Kyle says they are idiots? Do you agree with Kyle suggesting that it would be a good idea if the folks he considers to be idiots- and their parents, which he considers to be idiots- get run over by a train? Are you in agreement with Kyle that the people he calls idiots are that way because he thinks their parents are idiots, and that the world would be better off if they were dead? All of the above are to be found in Kyle's previous posts on this thread, some of which he is now trying to disavow. Why anyone would want to defend those types of reasoning is a little bit creepy. What Kyle is doing would be found in chapter 1 of the book The Idiot's guide to trolling the internet. (Sorry man, the made me do it. )He's throwing firebombs out to see if he can get the crowd stirred up and biting at each other. The point is that idiots have already getting killed, and the current "solution" is to take away everyone's freedoms. Also, look at websites like railpictures.net, and see all of the idiots photographed, also note how there are Darwinism awards. People agree with me. By calling me a troll and attacking me and not focusing on my ideas and logic, you are showing weakness in your defense. You are showing us you know you are losing ground and are resorting to desperate measures to try to prove your point. If your argument was sound, you wouldn't have to attack an insult the other person. I was trying to be nice, I wasn't playing victim. I attempted to respectfully ask you to stop your childish behavior of namecalling.
Murphy Siding gardendance- There's really no reason to read between the lines. You just have to read what is written. Are you saying you defend the idea that it's alright to let people get hit and killed by trains because Kyle says they are idiots? Do you agree with Kyle suggesting that it would be a good idea if the folks he considers to be idiots- and their parents, which he considers to be idiots- get run over by a train? Are you in agreement with Kyle that the people he calls idiots are that way because he thinks their parents are idiots, and that the world would be better off if they were dead? All of the above are to be found in Kyle's previous posts on this thread, some of which he is now trying to disavow. Why anyone would want to defend those types of reasoning is a little bit creepy. What Kyle is doing would be found in chapter 1 of the book The Idiot's guide to trolling the internet. (Sorry man, the made me do it. )He's throwing firebombs out to see if he can get the crowd stirred up and biting at each other.
gardendance- There's really no reason to read between the lines. You just have to read what is written. Are you saying you defend the idea that it's alright to let people get hit and killed by trains because Kyle says they are idiots? Do you agree with Kyle suggesting that it would be a good idea if the folks he considers to be idiots- and their parents, which he considers to be idiots- get run over by a train? Are you in agreement with Kyle that the people he calls idiots are that way because he thinks their parents are idiots, and that the world would be better off if they were dead? All of the above are to be found in Kyle's previous posts on this thread, some of which he is now trying to disavow. Why anyone would want to defend those types of reasoning is a little bit creepy. What Kyle is doing would be found in chapter 1 of the book The Idiot's guide to trolling the internet. (Sorry man, the made me do it. )He's throwing firebombs out to see if he can get the crowd stirred up and biting at each other.
The point is that idiots have already getting killed, and the current "solution" is to take away everyone's freedoms. Also, look at websites like railpictures.net, and see all of the idiots photographed, also note how there are Darwinism awards. People agree with me.
Kyle,
I have always been irritated by the widespread railfan/railroader reaction of the “idiot, moron, Darwin award label” that is applied to people who get killed by trains, particularly at grade crossings. To me, it comes off as sanctimonious to dance on the grave of some poor crossing victim just because he or she had the audacity to offend a train. People make mistakes, and sometimes they pay with their lives. But of course these pompous mavens of the Darwin Award never make a mistake. I have analyzed this behavior and believe I understand it deeply.
But you are right when you say there are people who agree with you. I would say that it is the majority. So it is a little strange to find people suddenly attacking you for simply promoting a near-universal sentiment which is all over every comment section in newspaper accounts of crossing crashes or pedestrian fatalities. It has been all over this forum as well. It actually seems to be confined to the railroad culture. Cops see fatalities every day, but you never hear them crowing about how smart they are and how stupid the victim was for getting killed.
Some here might say you are trolling, but some seem to define anything they strongly disagree with as trolling. And yet those same people who lecture us on trolling see no problem in posting snarky, off topic comments in a thread where they have no interest in contributing to the discussion, but just want to provoke a response in the hope of raising the temperature in order to get the thread locked. These are people who feel that others should not be discussing certain topics or wish to assert their preference for ending a discussion that they feel has gone on too long.
But of course, when they do that, that is not trolling.
OK everyone, I think we should all step back, take a deep breath, and cool it a bit.
Suffice it to say we all feel strongly about this issue and let it go at that.
gardendance schlimm You totally miss the underlying philosophy by only distinguishing between an active program as opposed to a passive one. The message in both is that society is somehow better off by the elimination of certain groups. In this case, it is the so-called idiots that are careless around trains. I, for one, find such a message unacceptable, whoever espouses it. Is this the earlier response to which you refer? Yes, the answer to "where did he say this" would lie in inferential reading IF the definition of "said" is "I read between the lines and applied my own opinion of what I thought he said and put words into his mouth to come up with something he didn't say".
He is not so much “reading between the lines” as drawing a comparison between the published words of a monster and Kyles postings here, they are very close in concept and content and the comparison is very apt.
23 17 46 11
Euclid:
"Cops see fatalities every day, but you never hear them crowing about how smart they are and how stupid the victim was for getting killed."
You need to get to know more cops. Not in public they don't. Back at the station it's a different story. My deputy friends have told me some real good ones, and they feel no pity for the less than intelligent ones. They have some choice terms for them too.
Norm
Norm48327 Euclid: "Cops see fatalities every day, but you never hear them crowing about how smart they are and how stupid the victim was for getting killed." You need to get to know more cops. Not in public they don't. Back at the station it's a different story. My deputy friends have told me some real good ones, and they feel no pity for the less than intelligent ones. They have some choice terms for them too.
The same thing happens in fire and EMS. I've seen the results of some pretty bone-headed moves in my day, and a good many of them had negative results. As far as I'm concerned, such folks often get what they deserve. But I'm not going to "go public" with such thoughts - that would be about as insensitive as one can get.
Especially when someone loses a loved one (or has to deal with their injury, etc) in the process.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I have never said that sick, weak, and deformed should be eliminated!!! You are simply making up things and saying that I said it, when I have never said nor meant. Thankfully, modern medicine and technology help save thousands of sick, weak (physically), and deformed, and even make their lives a lot better.
You try to compare me to Hitler. I never suggested anything that comes remotely close to Hitler's beliefs. Yet you continue to compare me to a monster who is probably the worse the world has ever seen. You pretend you are reading "between the lines", but in reality, you are simply coming up with horrible ideas that you ten relate to Hilter.
Note that I have only said that we should give everyone more freedoms and responsibilities. The idiots do whatever they want, and if they get themselves killed, it's their fault. I have said weak, but in the context of referring to the uneducated people without common sense.
tree68 Norm48327 Euclid: "Cops see fatalities every day, but you never hear them crowing about how smart they are and how stupid the victim was for getting killed." You need to get to know more cops. Not in public they don't. Back at the station it's a different story. My deputy friends have told me some real good ones, and they feel no pity for the less than intelligent ones. They have some choice terms for them too. The same thing happens in fire and EMS. I've seen the results of some pretty bone-headed moves in my day, and a good many of them had negative results. As far as I'm concerned, such folks often get what they deserve. But I'm not going to "go public" with such thoughts - that would be about as insensitive as one can get. Especially when someone loses a loved one (or has to deal with their injury, etc) in the process.
Thank you for showing how many support my opinion.
Kevin C. SmithSpeaking as an idiot myself...of the "damned fool stupid" variety... Everyone, in the right situation has done or will do something that could get them killed. Deservingly? Hardly. We can all probably recall something that happened through our negligence, inattention or just plain blinkered pig-ignorance that we look back on and say, "That was really dumb. I was really lucky." Now, with that (and 13 pages) out of the way, I am reminded of a story from, I believe, the pages of TRAINS (remember? The magazine about what we are supposedly in these fora to talk about?)... In 1976 the American Freedom Train was touring the country and left Chicago on the C&NW's Northwest line. All the crews of the suburban trains were warned to watch for crowds, go slow and use the horn & bell freely. One engineer, approaching a station saw a person in the MIDDLE of his track-back to his inbound (locomotive at the OTHER end) train-intently taping (filming?) SP 4449 approaching in the distance, utterly oblivious to their surroundings. Rather than constantly blowing the horn and unnecessarily frightening/annoying everyone around, the engineer slowed to a crawl and-oh, so quietly-pulled up to a stop about six feet behind the camera person...and waited for them to pan around. Oh, to have been a fly on the coupler to see the look on their face as they caught sight of that big green & yellow thing in their viewfinder. And, I think THAT parent made quite sure their kid knew the rules of safety around a railroad track.
We all make little mistakes, but when you learn from your mistakes, you become wiser. Now, for the idiots that make really stupid decisions, and then don't learn, they need to take responsibility for what is coming.
KyleThank you for showing how many support my opinion.
Please note that these folks account for the outcome as the result of a stupid decision. They'd just as soon the incidents didn't happen, so they don't advocate not doing anything to prevent the stupid people from taking such actions, as you suggested.
A collection of the postings of our troller:
"1. This is the result of idiots, and our screwed up legal system. If the legal system didNOT protect idiots that trespassed and stood on the tracks, then the RR wouldn't worry about getting sued. The idiots would be hit and killed which would prevent them from having stupid offspring. With not that many stupid offspring, then there are less idiots who are killed, and the idiot population goes down and almost extinct. Then we wouldn't have to worry about idiots, and the smart people would have more privileges (like getting a bit closer to the track). The entire population would get smarter.
2. UP would be community service if they killed a few of those idiots. Darwinism will take it's natural course as it was intended to. The idiots and stupid will die, while the smart people will survive and thrive. It makes the population smarter. For some reason, it seems like in todays world idiots have many offspring that are stupid as well, this makes the overall population dumber. When our screwed up legal system protects the idiots, it creates more problems in the form of more idiots. When there are more problems with idiots, the RR takes steps to protect themselves from the screwed up legal system, which in the end results in the smart people suffering.
3. The person was clearly stupid, idiotic, or had a death wish. That is when Darwinism should come in, but the guy who saved the person interrupted Darwinism, and the problem literally lives on.
4. It is only the really stupid people who have no common sense and act like immortal gods. Those are the only people who will die. However, if we protect the idiots, eventually we will get to the point where people above average will have no common sense. Idiots just seem to multiply. If some get killed there will probably be at least one left.
5. If you can't understand that and over 10 years old, you deserve to get hit. You are a problem for everyone.
6. There will still be the idiots who don't listen and break the safety rules, but they will deserve to get hit. The parents you talk about are complete idiots. They shouldn't have kids, they are teaching the kids to be even stupider idiots. That is why I believe we should let Darwinism go to work, so the idiots don't create more idiots that are worse.
7. Darwinism will solve it. The biggest idiot was the person who kept filming as he/she was picked up and moved. The rest were stupid, but were at least smart enough to move out of the way. Darwinism would have worked, but the guy who saved the idiot interfered. However that guy won't always be around so eventually Darwinism will get the idiot. As for the other stupid people, they will make a mistake one time and Darwinism will get them.
8. it was only the stupidity of the idiot. Now those idiots have lived and had children, but because they are stupid tht are horrible at teaching the children on how to have common sense and survive, they actually teach their kids how to be stupid, and almost die. Now, all these idiots, and even stupider idiots are dragging down society.
9. They also use rubber bullets. Could outfit a few locomotives with gear to get trespassers within ten feet of the track. Any who don't learn their lesson and get hit, deserve it. Would save the hassle of getting the idiots family to clean up the body. Maybe you could use the water cannon for that."
Clearly the troller is a case of an individual with a rather sick grudge against some portion of society.
I still think Kyle is doing a parody of the railroad/railfan culture. I don’t think Kyle is anything like the image that he is creating for himself in this thread.
Euclid I still think Kyle is doing a parody of the railroad/railfan culture. I don’t think Kyle is anything like the image that he is creating for himself in this thread.
Gentlemen:
A suggestion; and that is we put this thread to bed before it antagonizes one of the mods.
Norm,
How do "we put the thread to bed"? What if Kyle comes back with something to add?
My posting of the troller's greatest hits was to confirm what Murphy said: namely that Kyle had made a whole series of sick, perverse posts, then had tried to play the victim and make somewhat less offensive posts. Whether he was doing a parody, is Euclid in disguise or Atilla the Hun really matters not. The words are there and stand on their own disgusting tone.
schlimm My posting of the troller's greatest hits was to confirm what Murphy said: namely that Kyle had made a whole series of sick, perverse posts, then had tried to play the victim and make somewhat less offensive posts. Whether he was doing a parody, is Euclid in disguise or Atilla the Hun really matters not. The words are there and stand on their own disgusting tone.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Well one sure way to tell that Kyle is not me or Atilla the Hun is if Kyle comes back and denies that he is doing a parody of those who hate crossing idiot/morons. Then we will know for sure.
Euclid Norm, How do "we put the thread to bed"? What if Kyle comes back with something to add?
It's called "Ignore it".
Euclid Well one sure way to tell that Kyle is not me or Atilla the Hun is if Kyle comes back and denies that he is doing a parody of those who hate crossing idiot/morons. Then we will know for sure.
Wow,
First, we are all trying to debate with a troll, and trying to convince the troll that passive murder is not ok….what is wrong with this picture?
It is like trying to argue with a Kluxer, or a extreme evangelical…for the “true believer” no proof is even needed, and for the “non -believer, all the proof in world still won’t change their mind.
He is a person who is postulating that it is okay to allow a person who is, say, engrossed in a conversation, step off the curb and get hit by a bus, when all it would take is you putting your hand on their shoulder to prevent it.
Why in the world are any of us wasting our time even discussing the issue with him?
If he is a troll, we are just playing into his hands, and if he is Euclid or Bucky, we are just playing into his hands so….
We need a big sign that says…
“DO NOT FEED THE TROLL”.
edblysard Wow, First, we are all trying to debate with a troll, and trying to convince the troll that passive murder is not ok….what is wrong with this picture? It is like trying to argue with a Kluxer, or a extreme evangelical…for the “true believer” no proof is even needed, and for the “non -believer, all the proof in world still won’t change their mind. He is a person who is postulating that it is okay to allow a person who is, say, engrossed in a conversation, step off the curb and get hit by a bus, when all it would take is you putting your hand on their shoulder to prevent it. Why in the world are any of us wasting our time even discussing the issue with him? If he is a troll, we are just playing into his hands, and if he is Euclid or Bucky, we are just playing into his hands so…. We need a big sign that says… “DO NOT FEED THE TROLL”.
Hello!
It seems this thread has strayed a bit. Let's reel it in.
Thanks, folks!
Ang
Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Production Editor, Trains Magazine
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